Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >

Ferguson - the facts

Avatar

Posted: 8/21/2014 12:28 PM

Ferguson - the facts 


Kind of shocking.  As near as I can tell, these are the facts.  

18 year old Michael Brown, a 6 foot 4 292 lb manchild smoked weed, robbed a store and roughed up the workers there.  He then walked down the middle the street and was told by a police officer Darren Wilson to get out of the middle of the road.  Mr. Brown then assaulted the cop making his face swollen needing a hospital visit and walked away.  Officer Wilson was dazed, drew his weapon and demanded that Mr. Brown stop what he's doing.  Mr. Brown raised his hands and said, "What are you going to do, shoot me?"  Mr. Brown then bullrushed the officer who shot him 6 times killing Mr. Brown.

But really only 2 people know what happened and one of them, an unarmed black man is dead.



"I would definitely say Matt Stafford's balls get there way quicker (than Russell Wilson's). I like Stafford's touch," Golden Tate said.

Last edited 8/25/2014 12:21 PM by Emerson01

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 12:44 PM

Re: Feguson - the facts 


Well, it's Ferguson, so you got the first "fact" wrong.
Emerson01 wrote: Kind of shocking.  As near as I can tell, these are the facts.  

18 year old Michael Brown, a 6 foot 4 292 lb manchild smoked weed, robbed a store and roughed up the worker there.  He then walked down the middle the street and was told by a police officer Darren Wilson to get out of the middle of the road.  Mr. Brown then assaulted the cop breaking his orbital bone and walked away.  Officer Wilson was dazed, drew his weapon and demanded that Mr. Brown stop what he's doing.  Mr. Brown raised his hands and said, "What are you going to do, shoot me?"  Mr. Brown then bullrushed the officer who shot him 6 times killing Mr. Brown.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/21/2014 1:05 PM

Re: Feguson - the facts 


Good catch, my bad.  My spelling has been atrocious today.



"I would definitely say Matt Stafford's balls get there way quicker (than Russell Wilson's). I like Stafford's touch," Golden Tate said.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 1:36 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


There are conflicting reports on what really happened, so I'm not entirely sure what is or is not a fact. If Brown did in fact bullrush the police officer, then would his arms have been raised? If you are charging somebody at full speed, aren't your arms down? Also, is there any factual basis to say that Brown smoked weed prior to the entire incident? It's an appealing assumption, I would think most people would not charge a police office who has his gun drawn and fires at you, or physically assault the officer in the 1st place. Hopefully the toxicology report comes back soon and we find out if Brown had anything in his bloodstream that might have impaired his judgement.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/21/2014 2:08 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Toxicology reports are back and weed was in Mr. Brown's system.  Who said weed never killed anybody or made them violent?  

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2014/08/15/exp-ac-kaye-missouri-teen-shooting-store-video.cnn.html

Anyway, here is the CNN video of Mr. Brown stealing swishers to smoke more weed, 30 minutes before being shot.  Also, he assaults two employees.



"I would definitely say Matt Stafford's balls get there way quicker (than Russell Wilson's). I like Stafford's touch," Golden Tate said.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 2:15 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



Wiseacres wrote: There are conflicting reports on what really happened, so I'm not entirely sure what is or is not a fact. If Brown did in fact bullrush the police officer, then would his arms have been raised? If you are charging somebody at full speed, aren't your arms down? Also, is there any factual basis to say that Brown smoked weed prior to the entire incident? It's an appealing assumption, I would think most people would not charge a police office who has his gun drawn and fires at you, or physically assault the officer in the 1st place. Hopefully the toxicology report comes back soon and we find out if Brown had anything in his bloodstream that might have impaired his judgement.
Wah-hut? Who the hale ever rushed someone with the intent to do harm with their hands at their sides? More than likely hands raised to about the throat level?

Pretty level statement Emerson.Seems you were just putting out facts as you know them.Typical first response Lying.

Broken eye socket huh...that begs some questions. Im going to wait for all the info to come out. The media seems to be showing its irresponsible head lately.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 2:19 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Every day there are more reports coming in from "eye" witnesses, so I will withhold judgement until it's all there. The toxicology report will show pot for up to 30 days, never knew anyone to smoke weed and attack a cop.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 2:31 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



LyingFan wrote: Every day there are more reports coming in from "eye" witnesses, so I will withhold judgement until it's all there. The toxicology report will show pot for up to 30 days, never knew anyone to smoke weed and attack a cop.
I agree...and i dont think it matters if he was on PCP. Its the actions he took and the actions the officer took that matters. If they want to say its drugs that caused him to do this ..well...that was his choice also.Shouldnt be used as a scape goat for his behavior.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 4:49 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



sheslion wrote:
Wiseacres wrote: There are conflicting reports on what really happened, so I'm not entirely sure what is or is not a fact. If Brown did in fact bullrush the police officer, then would his arms have been raised? If you are charging somebody at full speed, aren't your arms down? Also, is there any factual basis to say that Brown smoked weed prior to the entire incident? It's an appealing assumption, I would think most people would not charge a police office who has his gun drawn and fires at you, or physically assault the officer in the 1st place. Hopefully the toxicology report comes back soon and we find out if Brown had anything in his bloodstream that might have impaired his judgement.
Wah-hut? Who the hale ever rushed someone with the intent to do harm with their hands at their sides? More than likely hands raised to about the throat level?

Pretty level statement Emerson.Seems you were just putting out facts as you know them.Typical first response Lying.

Broken eye socket huh...that begs some questions. Im going to wait for all the info to come out. The media seems to be showing its irresponsible head lately.

Didn't say HANDS were at their sides, I said ARMS.   DOWN.   As in not raised up, not a lot of space between your arms and your body when you're charging somebody.   When you rush at somebody your arms are pumping but they aren't raised in a surrender position.   Your forearms are bent about 90 degrees or less and you're pumping them right?   My point is, some witnesses have said Brown was shot with his hands up as if to surrender, while Wilson's story appears to say he was defending himself from a hard charging 290 lb man who had already assaulted him and caused significant physical damage.   I hope the autopsy reports will definitively show the arm positions when the bullets truck and we'll know more about what the truth is.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/21/2014 8:48 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Its hard to judge this one with so much unknown. That said, it sounds like this kid was one of those bully types that thought he could do whatever he wanted to people whenever he wanted because he was bigger and badder than everybody. There was no consequence for him because he gave out the consequences.
"Oh that's great"
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 8:59 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


I still find it interesting that even their pathologist really didn't say the shot direction through his arm, which was like 3 shots. That pattern SHOULD really say something. First, the 4 in the arm itself is interesting. Not exactly easy shot placement. At their presser, the attorney said it proved that his hands were up, but the pathologist would not confirm it.

Looking at the diagram, he had one in the upper forearm, and 2 in the bicep and then a fourth in the deltoid right next to the arm. So if you picture a normal person standing there with his arms all the way up in the typical "surrender" mode, all three in the arm would have gone through the "back" of the arm (palm side forward) and the chest shot would have been pretty much straight on. If he was doing a casual "hands up" where the arms are kind of bent at the elbow, and the hands are at around ear level, you'd have the forearm shot through the "back", but the bicep shots would be hard to see, as the bicep would be parallel to the ground and to the direction of the shot. Hard to hit that way,

The other thing to consider is that the guy is 6 freaking 4. Picture that guy with his hands all the way up, you'd have to be aiming 7 feet up to hit the forearm.

 

Last edited 8/21/2014 9:00 PM by sid11

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/21/2014 10:03 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



BigWillieStyle wrote: Its hard to judge this one with so much unknown. That said, it sounds like this kid was one of those bully types that thought he could do whatever he wanted to people whenever he wanted because he was bigger and badder than everybody. There was no consequence for him because he gave out the consequences.

Yeah, there's a lot that is unknown or unproven .   But a couple of things jump out at me:

1.  The kid just did a strong arm robbery 10 minutes earlier, and he's walking down the middle of the street with the cigarillos?   He's gotta know the cops were called and they'll be looking for somebody that matches his description but he's walking down the middle of the street?

2.  He assaults a cop.   Is there anybody in America that doesn't know you can't do that?  

3.  According to some reports, he says to the cop that in effect you're not going to shoot me.   And apparently believes it cuz he charges the cop who has his gun out and pointed at him.   Cop tells you to freeze and instead you go right at him?   The same one you just punched in the face a few times?   I just don't get that.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 1:21 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Those are not the facts at this point.  A one sided bunch of BS as there are several opinions and none of them are confirmed at this point.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 9:52 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Bravest man on the planet...Saaalute!

Johnathan Gentry
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 10:59 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



JRLIONS wrote: Those are not the facts at this point.  A one sided bunch of BS as there are several opinions and none of them are confirmed at this point.
We know he robbed the store because his accomplice admitted they did it. The store clerk has testified to it. The video shows it. Fact.

That doesn't mean he deserved to be shot.

Even  punching an officer or reaching for the officer's gun doesn't warrant getting shot.


I am most curious about the angle entry of the bullet wounds. I haven't watched much of the autopsy so maybe they have addressed this. This is in relation to his head angle and arm position; surrender or attack....

I am next most curious about why the decedent would have slugged the cop (presumable while the cop was still in his car) and reached for his gun, then try to get away, then try and charge the cop... weed use usually doesn't make you aggressive....now, his natural personality (bully as speculated per above) may have kicked in, especially given the robbery and if the assault aspects are true....

I don't believe the officer is at fault for using a firearm instead of trying to "check down" to mace/taser/baton if the circumstance is true that the the decedent rushed him after assaulting him and reaching for the gun. That combination to me says potential lethal force is in the range of acceptability. Without the previous assault and gun attempt it's really dubious IMO to pull on him, but clearly it's not unheard of by police to do so. These things can happen very quickly and the MMQB-ing going on I hear in the media and by some protestors about how to act is a little unrealistic regarding switching implements or exiting the vehicle with non lethal options as your first choice given the alleged assault/gun grab.

I think the "he was executed" narrative is teetering on collapse based  on the bullet angles, IMO.

Of course the handling of it from the word go was awful by the local PD starting with leaving his body in the street....cover the dead.....shielding the officer's ID for far too long, not releasing the officer's incident report in a timely manner etc



Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 11:02 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


First question to ask... What was he carrying? Did he have a taser? Mace? If he was in his car, he probably didn't have a baton on his belt.

 

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 11:03 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Dont mean to interrupt weeze great read...but growing up punching a cop and going for his gun was called suicide by cop. Just saying times sure have changed if the mentality is you can actually do that now.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 11:24 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


can you guys do me and the world a favor... if I ever rob someone, assault them in the process, then proceed to assault a cop after disobeying his orders and continue a violent act towards him all while I may be high on something please shoot me until you've eliminated the threat. I don't care what gender, color or religion you are - just shoot me. The world will be a better more peaceful place without me in it.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 11:53 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



sid11 wrote: First question to ask... What was he carrying? Did he have a taser? Mace? If he was in his car, he probably didn't have a baton on his belt.
good point



Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 11:57 AM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



sheslion wrote: Dont mean to interrupt weeze great read...but growing up punching a cop and going for his gun was called suicide by cop. Just saying times sure have changed if the mentality is you can actually do that now.
I'm not saying the cop won't pull on you, but shooting you after that without you going after him again isn't a reason to fire.

As talked about in an earlier therad, I have a a few police buddies and their general input has been the media overreached but they all have extensive histories in PDs that were high up the firing of their firearms in the line of duty, and had many many fights on a regular basis and gun grab attempts often enough....and it never warranted firing on the perp. Now, they may have pounded them w/their maglite or baton so that they couldn't attack anymore.....but this is after a fight had already started....



Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 1:26 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



weaselpuppy wrote:
sheslion wrote: Dont mean to interrupt weeze great read...but growing up punching a cop and going for his gun was called suicide by cop. Just saying times sure have changed if the mentality is you can actually do that now.
I'm not saying the cop won't pull on you, but shooting you after that without you going after him again isn't a reason to fire.

As talked about in an earlier therad, I have a a few police buddies and their general input has been the media overreached but they all have extensive histories in PDs that were high up the firing of their firearms in the line of duty, and had many many fights on a regular basis and gun grab attempts often enough....and it never warranted firing on the perp. Now, they may have pounded them w/their maglite or baton so that they couldn't attack anymore.....but this is after a fight had already started....
Yes..that is all reasonable thinking and i'll take your word on the cop stuff..but if there truely is an orbital bone fracture element...fire away until satisfied there is no threat. Sorry, i see to many zombie movies and i want them shot even after they have been shot...and shot...and shot.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 2:30 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Just one question: If his orbital bone was broken how was he still able to shoot so well? Seems to me like a guy that just had his eye bone broken would have watery eye's at a best, seriously blurry vision at worst. Seems like anything beyond point blank range would be a difficult shot under those conditions.

I wish ignorance was painful.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 2:44 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Still has one good eye and could explain the erratic hits?
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 2:45 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



Flee1 wrote: Just one question: If his orbital bone was broken how was he still able to shoot so well? Seems to me like a guy that just had his eye bone broken would have watery eye's at a best, seriously blurry vision at worst. Seems like anything beyond point blank range would be a difficult shot under those conditions.

Go back and look at his shot grouping.  6 shots ranging from the forearm to the top of the head.  That's not going to win a prize at camp perry.  If anything, making an assumption the guy is standing still, it shows a fairly fast pace of shooting and not much control, as the gun was apparently rising with each shot.  Which is what happens if you don't brace yourself while shooting.

 

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 2:47 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



Flee1 wrote: Just one question: If his orbital bone was broken how was he still able to shoot so well? Seems to me like a guy that just had his eye bone broken would have watery eye's at a best, seriously blurry vision at worst. Seems like anything beyond point blank range would be a difficult shot under those conditions.

First off, there seems to be some dispute and no proof that Wilson's orbital bone was fractured.   Not as much doubt however that his face was swollen and he was assaulted.   Either way, he fired at least 6 shots, maybe more, and hit Brown's arm 4 times.   Wasn't until Brown, a really big guy, got fairly close before the first head shot occurred, and no initial impact shots to the body at all.   I say that cuz those two bullets to the head were the last 2, from what I've read, so Brown must've been getting pretty close by then  That doesn't sound like good shooting to me.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 2:55 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



Wiseacres wrote:
Flee1 wrote: Just one question: If his orbital bone was broken how was he still able to shoot so well? Seems to me like a guy that just had his eye bone broken would have watery eye's at a best, seriously blurry vision at worst. Seems like anything beyond point blank range would be a difficult shot under those conditions.

First off, there seems to be some dispute and no proof that Wilson's orbital bone was fractured.   Not as much doubt however that his face was swollen and he was assaulted.   Either way, he fired at least 6 shots, maybe more, and hit Brown's arm 4 times.   Wasn't until Brown, a really big guy, got fairly close before the first head shot occurred, and no initial impact shots to the body at all.   I say that cuz those two bullets to the head were the last 2, from what I've read, so Brown must've been getting pretty close by then  That doesn't sound like good shooting to me.

I think by definition, the last two are to the head, unless he's shooting into the corpse lying on the ground.  And broken bone (fracture actually) or not, strikes to the face enough to cause swelling ( which appears to be a fact) will cause your eyes to water and potentially cause mild disorientation.  Have someone hit you in the face a few times if you don't believe me.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 3:14 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


I know if I was the cop I would have been scared for my life... life limb or eyesight authorizes use of deadly force in most situations

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 3:24 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


There been too many false starts, restarts and redirections for me to trust anything any says about the situation. We will never get the truth and this cop will walk.

I wish ignorance was painful.

Reply | Quote

Posted: 8/22/2014 4:05 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 



Flee1 wrote: There been too many false starts, restarts and redirections for me to trust anything any says about the situation. We will never get the truth and this cop will walk.

Do you think the cop should be convicted if the evidence is inconclusive?
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 8/22/2014 6:00 PM

Re: Ferguson - the facts 


Couple of great points Sid.

Also, I am convinced this guy was on more then pot. I have never nor have I known anyone who has ever smoked a joint and then got violent. I am thinking there is another drug tossed in there too.

The problem with this is the media jumped on it and there is so much misinformation out there. There aren't as many known facts as we should have in most cases but everyone seems to be adding their own views.

The bullet pattern does make me believe he was being charged and the officer was legitimately terrified and injured. I can't speak to the extent of his injuries since I do not know for sure but he would have to be a pretty smart, calm and cynical person to shot his first four shots in arm and last two in head purposely if he wasn't being threatened.

crappy situation. Hope facts do come out that can clear it all up.

I do not think anything will happen to the officer though whether more facts come out or not.

Are we ever gonna win it??

Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 3  Next >