Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
InboxChat RoomChat Room (0 fans in chatroom)
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >

OK lawyers, how about this...

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:36 AM

OK lawyers, how about this... 


Obama is supposedly preparing 19 executive orders on guns to avoid congress.  If he tries unilateral legislation, should the people simply ignore him?  That is, you break the law in this way and we will not follow your unconstitutional rules.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:51 AM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached.

In the last century, governments killed 260 million of their own citizens. Logical conclusion: Ban governments.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 8:53 AM

Re: OK lawyers, how about this... 


Obama has acted extra constitutionally so many times and gotten away with it, what's another (which is the way I'm sure he's approaching it).
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 10:48 AM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


This is why law abiding citizens push back on data bases. Because when ONE President decides he is above the constitution, it's still hard to determine who has what when they aren't committing any crimes with it. Once they know who what and where, and have the checklist of all these millions of new criminals (ie gun owners), there is a next logical step. You know, the one people in their right minds always say would never happen...

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 11:59 AM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


George W Bush executive order history.
State your outrage about how unconstitutional it was below my post(s) please.
I want to hear it and get angry with you.

2002
Dec. 31Executive Order
Dec. 19Executive Order: Half-Day Closing of Executive Departments and Agencies of the Federal Government on Tuesday, December 24, 2002
Dec. 12Executive Order: Equal Protection of the Laws for Faith-based and Community Organizations
Dec. 12Executive Order: Responsibilities of the Department of Agriculture and the Agency for International Development with Respect to Faith-based and Community Initiatives
Dec. 11Executive Order: President's Commission on the United States Postal Service
Nov. 20Executive Order: Delegation of Certain Authorities and Assignment of Certain Functions Under the Trade Act of 2002
Nov. 15Executive Order Regarding Undocumented Aliens in the Caribbean Region
Oct. 7Executive Order: Creating a Board of Inquiry to Report on Certain Labor Disputes Affecting the Maritime Industry of the United States
Sept. 18Executive Order: Environmental Stewardship and Transportation Infrastructure Project Reviews
Aug. 29Executive Order: Further Amending Executive Order 10173, as Amended, Prescribing Regulations Relating to the Safeguarding of Vessels, Harbors, Ports, and Waterfront Facilities of the United States
Aug. 13Executive Order: Proper Consideration of Small Entities in Agency Rulemaking
Jul. 9Executive Order Establishment of the Corporate Fraud Task Force
Jul. 3Expedited Naturalization Executive Order
Jul. 3Taliban Executive Order
Jun. 20Executive Order
Jun. 20Executive Order: President's Council on Physical Fitness and Sports
Jun. 20Executive Order: Activities to Promote Personal Fitness
Jun. 6Executive Order Amendment to Executive Order 13180, Air Traffic Performance-Based Organization
Apr. 29Executive Order: President's New Freedom Commission on Mental Health
Apr. 12Executive Order -- 2002 Amendments to the Manual for Courts-Martial, United States
Mar. 21Homeland Security Council Executive Order
Mar. 19Executive Order Providing An Order of Succession in the Environmental Protection Agency and Amending Certain Orders on Succession
Feb. 12Advisors for Historically Black Colleges and Universities
Feb. 7Executive Order: Amendment to Executive Order 13227, President's Commission on Excellence in Special Education
Jan. 30Establishing the USA Freedom Corps
Jan. 17Amendment to Executive Order 13223
Jan. 7Exclusions from the Federal Labor-Management Relations Program
2001
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession in the Department of Veterans Affairs
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of State
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Labor
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Housing and Urban Development
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Health and Human Services
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Interior
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at the Department of Commerce
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession at Department of Agriculture
Dec. 29Executive Order: Adjustments of Certain Rates of Pay
Dec. 29Executive Order on Succession in Department of Treasury
Dec. 28Executive Orders on Succession in Federal Agencies
Dec. 27Normal Trade Relations Treatment Executive Order
Dec. 21Council of Europe in Respect of the Group of States Against Corruption
Dec. 20Executive Order Establishing An Emergency Board
Dec. 14Afghanistan Combat Zone Executive Order
Dec. 6Executive Order for Federal Government Closure on Dec 24
Nov. 28Executive Order: Creation of the President's Council on Bioethics
Nov. 27Executive Order Waiver of Dual Compensation Provisions of the Central Intelligence Agency Retirement Act of 1964
Nov. 16National Emergency Construction Authority Executive Order
Nov. 13President Issues Military Order
Nov. 9Citizen Preparedness in War on Terrorism Executive Order
Nov. 1Presidential Records Act Executive Order
Oct. 22Executive Order for Dept of Health and Human Services
Oct. 16Executive Order on Critical Infrastructure Protection
Oct. 12Educational Excellence for Hispanic Americans Commission
Oct. 8Executive Order Establishing Office of Homeland Security
Oct. 3Executive Order on Excellence in Special Education
Oct. 1Continuance of Federal Advisory Committees
Oct. 1President Signs PCAST Executive Order
Sept. 24Executive Order on Terrorist Financing
Sept. 14President Orders Ready Reserves of Armed Forces to Active Duty
Aug. 17Executive Order on Export Control Regulations
Jul. 31Energy Efficient Standby Power Devices
Jul. 2Executive Order
Jun. 20President Bush Issues Executive Order Regarding 21st Century Workforce Initiative
Jun. 19President Bush Issues Executive Order Regarding Community-Based Alternatives for Individuals with Disabilities
Jun. 6Executive Order: Amendment To Executive Order 13125
Jun. 1Executive Order
May 29President's Task Force to Improve Health Care Delivery for Our Nation's Veterans
May 23Executive Order: Additional Measures with Respect to Prohibiting the Importation of Rough Diamonds from Sierra Leone
May 18Executive Order: Actions Concerning Regulations That Significantly Affect Energy Supply, Distribution, or Use
May 18Executive Order: Actions to Expedite Energy-Related Projects
May 2Executive Order: President's Commission to Strengthen Social Security
Apr. 30Executive Order: Establishment of the President's Task Force on Puerto Rico's Status
Apr. 6Executive Order: Amendment to Executive Order 13202
Apr. 5Executive Order: Further Amendment to Executive Order 10000
Apr. 4Executive Order: Termination of Emergency Authority For Certain Export Controls
Mar. 9Executive Order: Establishing an Emergency Board
Feb. 21Executive Order on Preservation of Open Competition and Government Neutrality Towards Government Contractors' Labor Relations on Federal and Federally Funded Construction Projects
Feb. 21Executive Order on Notification of Employee Rights Concerning Payment of Union Dues or Fees
Feb. 21Executive Order: Revocation of Executive Order on Nondisplacement of Qualified Workers under Certain Contracts
Feb. 21Executive Order and Presidential Memorandum Concerning Labor-Management Partnerships
Feb. 12Executive Order on the President's Information Technology Advisory Committee
Jan. 29Agency Responsibilities with Respect to Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
Jan. 29Executive Order: Establishment of White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 12:17 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


I think you'll find that Conservatives aren't really fond of Executive Orders no matter which party it comes out of. Part of it is the disfunction of Congress on both sides. Everyone wants their pork and that is the problem. As opposed to a high volume of simple bills, everyone wants the common ground as leverage to get their pork as opposed to passing bi-partisen legislation they have the votes on both sides to pass. The volume of passed legislation from this Congress (Remember that is House AND Senate)is sickening. They just flat aren't doing thier jobs. But I digress. George Bush isn't in office right now, and the one taking aim at my personal rights is Obama. It's his executive orders around the 2nd Amendment that has my drawers in a wad. Not some Hispanic Education Executive Order Bush passed long ago. Neither am I happy about, but the most imminant is what has me concerned the most right now. It's a biggie when you are blowing past the 2nd Amendment via Executive Fiat.

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 12:22 PM

Re: OK lawyers, how about this... 


State your outrage about how unconstitutional it was below my post(s) please.

It's not about executive orders themselves.  It's about executive orders specifically designed to circumvent the 2nd amendment.

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 12:23 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


Granted Rick, you don't like what is happening now, but the next time a Republican is in office and issues executive orders, I am hoping people like NFS apply comments like "He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached" with equal vigor.

Oh, and the same rules for critique and condemnation should apply to the lack of fiscal conservation.

Last edited 1/15/2013 12:25 PM by pdono

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 12:54 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote: Granted Rick, you don't like what is happening now, but the next time a Republican is in office and issues executive orders, I am hoping people like NFS apply comments like "He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached" with equal vigor.

Oh, and the same rules for critique and condemnation should apply to the lack of fiscal conservation.

A president has a right to issue executive orders regarding how executive branch offices work.  But those are not laws, nor are they legally binding.  Also, I'd defy you to show me any time where in reply to one circumstance bush issued a batch of 20 orders.  Obama has no authority to issue an order that places any burden on me.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 12:58 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



sid11 wrote: 

Obama has no authority to issue an order that places any burden on me.
O.K. which Obama executive order is putting a burden on you?
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 1:21 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote:
sid11 wrote: 

Obama has no authority to issue an order that places any burden on me.
O.K. which Obama executive order is putting a burden on you?

I think something like 10 of the 19 proposed would.   Bottom line is that a president can't legislate through executive order.  As I pointed out, they are non-binding mandates on the branches that the executive controls.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 1:24 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



sid11 wrote: 

Bottom line is that a president can't legislate through executive order.  As I pointed out, they are non-binding mandates on the branches that the executive controls.
O.K. then, I guess you have nothing to worry about. I mean, if they are non binding.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 1:37 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote:
sid11 wrote: 

Bottom line is that a president can't legislate through executive order.  As I pointed out, they are non-binding mandates on the branches that the executive controls.
O.K. then, I guess you have nothing to worry about. I mean, if they are non binding.
Yup, so I guess as long as you don't mind your emporer issuing pseudo-laws you have to deal with and discredit

I'm actually surprised that you're seriously going to try comparing bush giving a half-day off on christmas eve to obama issuing de facto gun laws.

 

Last edited 1/15/2013 2:14 PM by sid11

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:25 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



sid11 wrote: 

I'm actually surprised that you're seriously going to try comparing bush giving a half-day off on christmas eve to obama issuing de facto gun laws.
Nice try. I never did that.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:27 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote:
sid11 wrote: 

I'm actually surprised that you're seriously going to try comparing bush giving a half-day off on christmas eve to obama issuing de facto gun laws.
Nice try. I never did that.

You posted a litany of bush's EO's.  Now, if you "never did that", we can assume that you just dumped the whole thing there without reading any of them.  If you did read them, than you would see a comparison.   If you didn't read them, than why did you waste our time with them?

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:29 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


You are going down the crazy path again. Read what's posted, then get back to me.
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:30 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


An executive order is not legislation. Two different things. Of course, there have been fights in the past on the President overstepped his authority. And while I don't know the details, perhaps there could be one here

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:36 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote: You are going down the crazy path again. Read what's posted, then get back to me.

You listed Bush's EO's but never read them, so you have no basis to talk about being unconstitutional.  Obama is looking at issuing orders to avoid congress, which is clearly unconstitutional.  And EO can only be issued as a directive on the internal functioning of an executive branch agency, not as a mandate on the people.

Tell you what...  IF you have a point here, why don't you just lay it out rather than posting dozens of apparently meaningles items.

No one said that EO's in general are not constitutional.  They clearly are.  But using them to legislate and avoid congress is clearly UNconstitutional, and that's what Obama is proposing.

 

Last edited 1/15/2013 2:47 PM by sid11

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 2:41 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote: Granted Rick, you don't like what is happening now, but the next time a Republican is in office and issues executive orders, I am hoping people like NFS apply comments like "He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached" with equal vigor.

Oh, and the same rules for critique and condemnation should apply to the lack of fiscal conservation.
Show me which of those executive orders violates the Bill of Rights and how. I object to trying to change a Constitutionally protected right via EO.
I don't care who is doing it. I didn't like it when it was Bush and the wire tapping. I was a little more understanding, because of the terror cells in America. When you live 5 miles from Dearborn, you have a slightly heightened sense of awareness.
Its probably not morally justifiable. My bad.

In the last century, governments killed 260 million of their own citizens. Logical conclusion: Ban governments.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:01 PM

Re: OK lawyers, how about this... 



sid11 wrote: Obama is supposedly preparing 19 executive orders on guns to avoid congress.  If he tries unilateral legislation, should the people simply ignore him?  That is, you break the law in this way and we will not follow your unconstitutional rules.
What was the draft dodgers mantra??....

"Hell no, we won't go"
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". -- Albert Einstein --
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:15 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote: Granted Rick, you don't like what is happening now, but the next time a Republican is in office and issues executive orders, I am hoping people like NFS apply comments like "He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached" with equal vigor.

Oh, and the same rules for critique and condemnation should apply to the lack of fiscal conservation.
You got it...consistancy.

I will be when the time comes, but, right now I am concerned about the POTUS at hand....I couldn't care any less which party is in control.

Bull sh*t is still bullsh*t regardless of the party.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". -- Albert Einstein --
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:22 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



FarmerTed wrote: An executive order is not legislation. Two different things. Of course, there have been fights in the past on the President overstepped his authority. And while I don't know the details, perhaps there could be one here
Thanks for being open minded, Ted.

I don't believe any POTUS, regardless of party affiliation, can circumvent the Constitution... and the last time I checked, the 2nd amendment was still a part of the Constitution...(for now at least).
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". -- Albert Einstein --
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 6:39 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


I'm on a bit of an OTT vacation, but it is important to remember that all three branches are charged with interpreting the constitution. Ultimately, the judiciary gets the final say but the branches often disagree over what is and isn't constitutional. 

One branch's "reasonable regulation" is another's "infringement". Thus it always was and thus it always shall be. 

I do, however, have a challenge for the Denizens though. The court has spoken pretty recently in the Heller decision as to what the 2nd amendment does, and doesn't, provide for. So, everyone should read Heller carefully before they opine as to the constitutionality of any of the proposed legislation or executive action. 

If y'all want to have a mere political discussion, fine, but don't go bringing the constitution in unless you have a pretty good understanding of it. 


charliesanders88 wrote:
FarmerTed wrote: An executive order is not legislation. Two different things. Of course, there have been fights in the past on the President overstepped his authority. And while I don't know the details, perhaps there could be one here
Thanks for being open minded, Ted.

I don't believe any POTUS, regardless of party affiliation, can circumvent the Constitution... and the last time I checked, the 2nd amendment was still a part of the Constitution...(for now at least).
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 7:48 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



JCHeff1979 wrote:
If y'all want to have a mere political discussion, fine, but don't go bringing the constitution in unless you have a pretty good understanding of it. 


Tell you what, keep it simple.  Just go into executive orders and tell us the definition between that and legislation.

 

Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 9:22 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



JCHeff1979 wrote: I'm on a bit of an OTT vacation, but it is important to remember that all three branches are charged with interpreting the constitution. Ultimately, the judiciary gets the final say but the branches often disagree over what is and isn't constitutional. 

One branch's "reasonable regulation" is another's "infringement". Thus it always was and thus it always shall be. 

I do, however, have a challenge for the Denizens though. The court has spoken pretty recently in the Heller decision as to what the 2nd amendment does, and doesn't, provide for. So, everyone should read Heller carefully before they opine as to the constitutionality of any of the proposed legislation or executive action. 

If y'all want to have a mere political discussion, fine, but don't go bringing the constitution in unless you have a pretty good understanding of it. 


charliesanders88 wrote:
FarmerTed wrote: An executive order is not legislation. Two different things. Of course, there have been fights in the past on the President overstepped his authority. And while I don't know the details, perhaps there could be one here
Thanks for being open minded, Ted.

I don't believe any POTUS, regardless of party affiliation, can circumvent the Constitution... and the last time I checked, the 2nd amendment was still a part of the Constitution...(for now at least).

I am really interested in what you believe the 2nd amendment does or doesn't provide for as recently spoken by the Court in the Heller v DC decision.

There are restrictions, but, the court declinded the establishment of a level of scrutiny for evaluating 2nd amendment restrictions.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction". -- Albert Einstein --
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 9:40 PM

Re: OK lawyers, how about this... 



WestCoastLionsFan wrote: Obama has acted extra constitutionally so many times and gotten away with it, what's another (which is the way I'm sure he's approaching it).
Your statement is incorrect.
He's issued fewer executive orders than any president in over 100 years.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 9:46 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 


LOL, you call that simple?
sid11 wrote:
JCHeff1979 wrote:
If y'all want to have a mere political discussion, fine, but don't go bringing the constitution in unless you have a pretty good understanding of it. 


Tell you what, keep it simple.  Just go into executive orders and tell us the definition between that and legislation.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 1/15/2013 10:00 PM

Re: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote:
WestCoastLionsFan wrote: Obama has acted extra constitutionally so many times and gotten away with it, what's another (which is the way I'm sure he's approaching it).
Your statement is incorrect.
He's issued fewer executive orders than any president in over 100 years.
Actually your statement is incorrect.  WCLF says he acted unconstitutionally.  You are assuming that all of his orders were constitutional.

 

Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/15/2013 11:04 PM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



pdono wrote: Granted Rick, you don't like what is happening now, but the next time a Republican is in office and issues executive orders, I am hoping people like NFS apply comments like "He has no Constitutional authority and should be impeached" with equal vigor.

Oh, and the same rules for critique and condemnation should apply to the lack of fiscal conservation.
Fair enough.  The Patriot Act was pretty scary, but even ole Georgie put an expiration date on it.  Not to bring in scale at all, but it is the SECOND Amendment... not some immigration policy.

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
Reply | Quote
Avatar

Posted: 1/16/2013 12:29 AM

RE: OK lawyers, how about this... 



charliesanders88 wrote:
FarmerTed wrote: An executive order is not legislation. Two different things. Of course, there have been fights in the past on the President overstepped his authority. And while I don't know the details, perhaps there could be one here
Thanks for being open minded, Ted.

I don't believe any POTUS, regardless of party affiliation, can circumvent the Constitution... and the last time I checked, the 2nd amendment was still a part of the Constitution...(for now at least).
I'm just pleading ignorance on this issue.  I don't know what the exec orders are at all.  Not paying a whole lot of attention to the gun stuff.  I seriously doubt that the GOP would let him just ride roughshed over the Constitution if they legitimately thought he was violating Separation of Powers provisions.  They'd just put the thing in Court and let the SCOTUS ultimately decide.

Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 4  Next >