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Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers)

Posted: 8/26/2014 11:47 AM

Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Jim Caldwell coached in a Super Bowl and also guided a team to the NFL's worst record, all in the span of three years during his time in Indianapolis. 

Now in his second stint as a head coach, apparently some of his experience in Indianapolis has influenced his peers. Colleague Mike Sando took a poll of 30 league insiders -- including eight general managers and four former general managers -- to find how each coach is viewed within the league. 

Those insiders voted Caldwell 27th among the league's coaches and second-worst among first-year head coaches in the league, only ahead of Cleveland's Mike Pettine. 

In all, Caldwell received a 3.5 rating in a system where a 1 rating was the best and a 5 rating was the worst. 

"He is a true head coach," a league general manager told Sando for the story. "He has a heartbeat on his team and what they need at the moment. He is also probably an underrated X-and-O coordinator considering the run he had with the Ravens. In this thing, he deserves to be a 3 for now." 

In the poll, Caldwell received three votes in the Nos. 2 and 5 categories and 12 votes each in the Nos. 3 and 4 categories. 

To read the entire piece, along with some more explanation, check out Sando's story here.
any attempt to impersonate an actual scout in the above post has been done poorly, and should not be taken seriously by anyone
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:11 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Can't say I'm too surprised. I'm just glad he's not calling plays.

The good:

- Caldwell is a great motivational speaker. If you get the chance watch his Nelson Mandela speech he recited to his former player in Baltimore. He' very well spoken, and his words resonate with the players. I heard Reggie Bush speak on this in an interview with Charissa Thompson (fox sports) also. He went on to explain (and this was during OTA's) that for the 1st time in his career.. he would come home and want to talk about work and his HC.

The bad:

- his game management would leave you scratching your head sometimes. I've seen it plenty and Colts fans would tell you the same.

He wasn't my 1st choice, 2nd, probably not even 3rd. In many ways he's the antithesis of Schwartz so by that measure.. I'm glad he's here. More importantly.. I'm just counting my blessing he won't actually be in charge of the play-calling.




*Suh,Megatron,Best,Broyles*

Last edited 8/26/2014 12:13 PM by LionsSlashWings

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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:32 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


I can't think of a head coach in the NFL that I would rather have less...Including Jim Schwartz.

I'm trying though! Trying to find a way to like this guy. When he referred to "the lord" during a response about Ziggy's return I nearly lost it. It would be nice to have a head coach that didn't refer to mythology when discussing injury time frames.

His losing record at Wake Forest is a huge black mark.

I am expecting this team to regress under him. I will be THRILLED if I am wrong.



Hi, my name is Kevin and I am a Lionsoholic.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:43 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Wasn't a fan of hiring Caldwell. I wanted Whisenhunt. But I ha e a good feeling about the Coordinators. So it's wait and see for me.
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



BigWillieStyle wrote: Wasn't a fan of hiring Caldwell. I wanted Whisenhunt. But I ha e a good feeling about the Coordinators. So it's wait and see for me.
same......


We have a talented roster with the exception of the secondary.  I'm psyched about Ebron and Tate.

As usual, though, things will come down to coaching and QB. 

I don't know how I feel about Jim and Matt vs McCarthy and Rogers.
any attempt to impersonate an actual scout in the above post has been done poorly, and should not be taken seriously by anyone
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:02 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



LionsSlashWings wrote:  I'm just counting my blessing he won't actually be in charge of the play-calling.
Why don't you like his play calling?

During the 2012 Ravens playoff and Super Bowl run, Caldwell was put in charge of an underachieving offense won the Super Bowl and he did it late in the season (Dec 10)

Baltimore Ravens head coach John Harbaugh has elevated Jim Caldwell to offensive coordinator and relieved Cam Cameron of his duties, it was announced Monday afternoon.

Here is a statement from coach Harbaugh:

“I have made a coaching change, and Jim Caldwell will take over as the offensive coordinator, which includes play-calling duties.

“My charge – our responsibility as a coaching staff – is to maximize the opportunities for our team to win, and we can still reach all of our goals for this season. We have a motto we follow on this team: W.I.N. – What’s Important Now – and what’s important now is to find ways to get better, win the AFC North and advance to the playoffs.

Clicky


In his second game as offensive coordinator and first full week behind the wheel of the Baltimore Ravens offense, the team pulled off a 33-14 pasting of the visiting New York Giants with season bests of 534 yards of offense and 225 rushing yards.

Clicky

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

Formerly AzLionsFan, formerly TheRealWags
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:09 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



BigWillieStyle wrote: Wasn't a fan of hiring Caldwell. I wanted Whisenhunt. But I ha e a good feeling about the Coordinators. So it's wait and see for me.
When a team hasn't really won anything in almost 60 years they can't really say "I want you to coach my team" and expect everyone to respond favorably. Didn't they try to get Whisenhunt?
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:13 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



BigWillieStyle wrote: Wasn't a fan of hiring Caldwell. I wanted Whisenhunt. But I ha e a good feeling about the Coordinators. So it's wait and see for me.

Also the same.  I will say so far, i like that he is standing up to the team and not playing the favorites game.  Im hoping he learned a lot from his first stint as HC and he does have Super Bowl experience.  My biggest concern is how quickly Baltimore's offense collapsed in 2013, but I knew that would happen as soon as they let Boldin go.  That was Flacco's go to guy.  All teams had to do was stop the run, and when Pitta went down their offense was spent.

As for the Lord comment, that wasnt so much mythology...  The comment was asking when Ansah would be ready to return.  Caldwell said. “I cannot worry about how quickly the Lord allows someone to heal. I’ve got to do our business, and at that point in time when he gets healthy and ready to go, he’ll be ready.

He is basically fobbing off the answer, and saying he wont put a specific timeline when a guy will be healed. I dont 
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:17 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


The bad thing about it... He will be critiqued extensively by the fans for his QBing expertise if he fails at turning Stafford into All - World QB. But, fact of the matter is; Stafford had these issues, dating back to High School and it followed him throughout his journey into the NFL.

#OldHabitsDieHard


I just hope, taking on this job as the Lions HC with Stafford at the helm, isn't Career suicide for Caldwell.

Last edited 8/26/2014 1:20 PM by CaptainObviou5

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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:23 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


I'm really disapointed at the lack of rational comments as to why someone doesn't like a coach, especially one with a short record and a huge "?" in the (the season losing manning).

The article is almost as bad. Note that of the 30 so-called "insiders" (once again, the unnamed throng), only 12 of 30 are called out, and 4 of them are "ex". Not much to really judge their opinion by, is it?

 

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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:35 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Ford Jr will have to take a page out of the Piston owner playbook and fire Mayhew and Caldwell and then look to lure in a top candidate by offering him complete football side power.  Caldwell will get at least two years though, and no use firing Mayhew if you got to keep Caldwell around.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:41 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


I honestly have no idea what makes a coach a good one or not. I do think the choices for the coordinator jobs were inspired choices. If Caldwell is just a good captain that is fine with me.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:50 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Sean Payton would be a good example of what a good coach is IMO.
"Oh that's great"

Last edited 8/26/2014 1:51 PM by BigWillieStyle

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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:51 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 





---------------------------------------------
--- sid11 wrote:

I'm really disapointed at the lack of rational comments as to why someone doesn't like a coach, especially one with a short record and a huge "?" in the (the season losing manning).

The article is almost as bad. Note that of the 30 so-called "insiders" (once again, the unnamed throng), only 12 of 30 are called out, and 4 of them are "ex". Not much to really judge their opinion by, is it?

---------------------------------------------
The 2011 season, however, saw the Colts sink to 2-14. Star quarterback Peyton Manning missed the entire season due to neck problems, and without him the Colts appeared to be a rudderless team. Caldwell was fired after the season. -Wiki


Lost
Peyton Manning
* His replacements
** Curtis Painter
** Kerry Collins
** Dan Orlovsky

Lost
Melvin Bullitt
Gary Brackett
* Their Replacements
** Check roster



The Colts’ lost four-time NFL MVP. Gone is the mainstay in the middle of the Colts defense for the last six seasons. Gone is a special teams force and an emerging leader in what was going to be his first full season starting at safety.


Lost
*Starting Dline man & his replacement for the season
** Eric Foster × Entire season
** Rookie Drake Nevis

Lost rookies
* Starting Oline man & his replacement. One of them for the remainder of the season
** Anthony Castonza
** Ben Ijalana × Entire season

Just four games into the season and the Colts were down three of their four captains, including a future HOF'R QB who was the nucleus of that team for many many years and their top three draft choices.

But, it's was Caldwell's fault.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:53 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


And in Flacco's 1st game under Caldwell as OC (Dec 16).. his QBR was the 2nd worst ever recorded since the rating system was introduced in 2008. His QBR that day was a pathetic 0.4%


I'll give credit to Flacco where it's due because the guy got hot in the play-offs and the SB earned him that ridiculous contract. But that team lost 5 0f it's last 6 games:

* 0-3 under Cameron

* 1-2 under Caldwell


Biggest reasons why the Ravens won the SB:


1) An inspired D playing their hearts out for Ray Lewis on his farewell tour

2) Anquan Boldin. He saved the day so many times.

3) Flacco. He does nothing for me, but he had an incredible run and I have to tip my hat to him.


The following season however, the 1st full season without Anquan, the 1st full season under Caldwell.. Flacco's #'s declined massively:


- he threw more INT's than TD (19 TD's : 22 INT's)

- they couldn't even muster an Offensive TD vs the Lions... how bad is that?

- he continued to experience some of his worst ratings in his career:

- 69.4 vs DEN, 46.4 vs Buff, 60.0 vs CIN, 53.4 vs CHI, 64.2 vs MIN, 56.9 vs NE, and 49.8 vs CIN.

TheRea1Wags wrote:
LionsSlashWings wrote:  I'm just counting my blessing he won't actually be in charge of the play-calling.
Why don't you like his play calling?

During the 2012 Ravens playoff and Super Bowl run, Caldwell was put in charge of an underachieving offense won the Super Bowl and he did it late in the season (Dec 10)




*Suh,Megatron,Best,Broyles*

Last edited 8/26/2014 1:54 PM by LionsSlashWings

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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:59 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



I'm going to go out on a limb and say that an NFL GM or former NFL GM knows more about rating coaches than you,  Mr.  'Lions forum chat room guy'.

Let's wait and see.  With this uber talented squad that Mayhew has assembled, I would assume Cladwell should be good for at least 10 wins, right?

Looking forward to an awesome season!  biggrin


________________________________________________________________________________________

sid11 wrote: I'm really disapointed at the lack of rational comments as to why someone doesn't like a coach, especially one with a short record and a huge "?" in the (the season losing manning).

The article is almost as bad. Note that of the 30 so-called "insiders" (once again, the unnamed throng), only 12 of 30 are called out, and 4 of them are "ex". Not much to really judge their opinion by, is it?
"Mayhew was a bad GM last year. He was a bad GM the year before that.He's been a bad GM his whole career. I don't think anybody would be surprised if I thought he was a bad GM".

Dan Orlovsky on Martin Mayhew. Detroit Free Press, 2.21.09
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Posted: 8/26/2014 2:13 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


LionsSlashWings wrote:

And in Flacco's 1st game under Caldwell as OC (Dec 16).. his QBR was the 2nd worst ever recorded since the rating system was introduced in 2008. His QBR that day was a pathetic 0.4%


I'll give credit to Flacco where it's due because the guy got hot in the play-offs and the SB earned him that ridiculous contract. But that team lost 5 0f it's last 6 games:

* 0-3 under Cameron

* 1-2 under Caldwell


Biggest reasons why the Ravens won the SB:


1) An inspired D playing their hearts out for Ray Lewis on his farewell tour

2) Anquan Boldin. He saved the day so many times.

3) Flacco. He does nothing for me, but he had an incredible run and I have to tip my hat to him.


The following season however, the 1st full season without Anquan, the 1st full season under Caldwell.. Flacco's #'s declined massively:


- he threw more INT's than TD (19 TD's : 22 INT's)

- they couldn't even muster an Offensive TD vs the Lions... how bad is that?

- he continued to experience some of his worst ratings in his career:

- 69.4 vs DEN, 46.4 vs Buff, 60.0 vs CIN, 53.4 vs CHI, 64.2 vs MIN, 56.9 vs NE, and 49.8 vs CIN.

TheRea1Wags wrote:
LionsSlashWings wrote:  I'm just counting my blessing he won't actually be in charge of the play-calling.
Why don't you like his play calling?

During the 2012 Ravens playoff and Super Bowl run, Caldwell was put in charge of an underachieving offense won the Super Bowl and he did it late in the season (Dec 10)

Whelp.  This is pretty easy to put perspective to.

 

The Ravens offense was changed in the following ways:

 

- Ray Ricewas injured from week 2 and tried to play through it but was used sparingly and only had 600 rushing yards and 3.1 Y/A.

- Dennis Pitta to injury.

- Traded Anquan Boldin

- Starting FB McClain missed 6 games.

- Brandon Stokley missed almost the entire season and he was slated to be their #3 WR.

- Outside of Marshal Yanda, featured arguably the worst OL in the league.  They were awful.

 

So, Flacco had a bad OL, lost his best WR in Boldin, his starting HB was banged up and played awful and sparingly, he lost his safety valve and their second best receiving threat in Pitta and you're surprised he struggled?  Can't put that on Caldwell, he didn't make roster decisions.  

The Head Coach is a figure head in a lot of instances.  I'd like to think Caldwell learned a lot from his first stint in Indy(a certain Patriots coach was fired once upon a time).  I think the coordinators are good but, we'll see.  If he makes good personnel choices(staff and players alike) I think he has the intelligence and mindset/calm demeanor to be a good enough head coach.  




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Posted: 8/26/2014 2:16 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



LionsSlashWings wrote:

And in Flacco's 1st game under Caldwell as OC (Dec 16).. his QBR was the 2nd worst ever recorded since the rating system was introduced in 2008. His QBR that day was a pathetic 0.4%


I'll give credit to Flacco where it's due because the guy got hot in the play-offs and the SB earned him that ridiculous contract. But that team lost 5 0f it's last 6 games:

* 0-3 under Cameron

* 1-2 under Caldwell


Biggest reasons why the Ravens won the SB:


1) An inspired D playing their hearts out for Ray Lewis on his farewell tour

2) Anquan Boldin. He saved the day so many times.

3) Flacco. He does nothing for me, but he had an incredible run and I have to tip my hat to him.


The following season however, the 1st full season without Anquan, the 1st full season under Caldwell.. Flacco's #'s declined massively:


- he threw more INT's than TD (19 TD's : 22 INT's)

- they couldn't even muster an Offensive TD vs the Lions... how bad is that?

- he continued to experience some of his worst ratings in his career:

- 69.4 vs DEN, 46.4 vs Buff, 60.0 vs CIN, 53.4 vs CHI, 64.2 vs MIN, 56.9 vs NE, and 49.8 vs CIN.

TheRea1Wags wrote:
LionsSlashWings wrote:  I'm just counting my blessing he won't actually be in charge of the play-calling.
Why don't you like his play calling?

During the 2012 Ravens playoff and Super Bowl run, Caldwell was put in charge of an underachieving offense won the Super Bowl and he did it late in the season (Dec 10)
Just to make sure I understand your stance correctly, Caldwell is soley responsible for the 2013 Ravens offensive woes? Because as I read your response, there's no reasoning behind not liking his play-calling unless you're of the opinion that it was all Flacco and no Caldwell during the SB run.  That said, I'll agree that a 'resurging' Lewis and D definitely helped (ultimate team sport and all).

Some stats:
2012 League Rankings:
Total Offense: 19th
Passing: 15th
Rushing: 23rd

Total Defense: 25th
Passing: 23rd
Rushing: 23rd

2012 Post Season:
Ravens O scored: 124 points (31/per game avg)
Ravens D allowed: 88 points (22/per game avg)

StormGuyNovi wrote: My biggest concern is how quickly Baltimore's offense collapsed in 2013, but I knew that would happen as soon as they let Boldin go.  That was Flacco's go to guy.  All teams had to do was stop the run, and when Pitta went down their offense was spent. 
Agreed. Taking away their most reliable WR, losing their #1 TE to injury and, if I'm not mistaken, there were OLine issues as well. Add all that up and you're likely to see a poor offense.
CaptainObviou5 wrote: The 2011 season, however, saw the Colts sink to 2-14. Star quarterback Peyton Manning missed the entire season due to neck problems, and without him the Colts appeared to be a rudderless team. Caldwell was fired after the season. -Wiki

Lost
Peyton Manning
* His replacements
** Curtis Painter
** Kerry Collins
** Dan Orlovsky

Lost
Melvin Bullitt
Gary Brackett
* Their Replacements
** Check roster



The Colts’ lost four-time NFL MVP. Gone is the mainstay in the middle of the Colts defense for the last six seasons. Gone is a special teams force and an emerging leader in what was going to be his first full season starting at safety.


Lost
*Starting Dline man & his replacement for the season
** Eric Foster × Entire season
** Rookie Drake Nevis

Lost rookies
* Starting Oline man & his replacement. One of them for the remainder of the season
** Anthony Castonza
** Ben Ijalana × Entire season

Just four games into the season and the Colts were down three of their four captains, including a future HOF'R QB who was the nucleus of that team for many many years and their top three draft choices.

But, it's was Caldwell's fault.
Good post.

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

Formerly AzLionsFan, formerly TheRealWags

Last edited 8/26/2014 2:17 PM by TheRea1Wags

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Posted: 8/26/2014 2:46 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 


Oh, and let's not forget about the lost of Howard Mudd and Tom Moore... That was significant in itself.

On May 6, 2009, ESPN reported that Mudd had filed his retirement papers due to a change in the NFL's pension program. On May 20, 2009, Mudd returned to the team as the senior offensive line coach. Mudd planned to retire for good following the Colts' game against the New Orleans Saints in Super Bowl XLIV.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 2:54 PM

Re: Caldwell voted 27th best among head coaches(by his peers) 



TheRea1Wags wrote:
Just to make sure I understand your stance correctly, Caldwell is soley responsible for the 2013 Ravens offensive woes? Because as I read your response, there's no reasoning behind not liking his play-calling unless you're of the opinion that it was all Flacco and no Caldwell during the SB run.  That said, I'll agree that a 'resurging' Lewis and D definitely helped (ultimate team sport and all).

Some stats:
2012 League Rankings:
Total Offense: 19th (worse in 2013.. 25th)
Passing: 15th (again worse in 2013.. 18th)
Rushing: 23rd (also worse in 2013.. 32nd, dead last)

Defense doesn't pertain to the conversation so I didn't bother to look those numbers up.

I don't feel like arguing what's worse a paper cut or a sliver. Both Cameron & Caldwell were bad play-callers. That's what it is. Compared to most others..their schemes are simple. Their failures to adjust on the fly, and adapt to the constantly changing nature of the NFL were their ultimate undoing.

We didn't steal "steal" Caldwell" from the Ravens. We took him off their hands.. and every Ravens fan was thankful for that 'cuz they couldn't be so sure Harbaugh was gonna can him after just 1 full season of play-calling.

I understand fans typically complain about the play-calling of your favourite football team. But in this case it's legit... Ravens fans were right about that, and they'll be the 1st to tell you Caldwell was towards the bottom of the list as to why they won the SB.

I don't wanna make it sound like I hate Caldwell before ever giving him a chance. That's not true,, he brings some positives that I welcome. But I don't ever wanna see him calling plays... and I'm glad someone else will be in charge of that instead.




*Suh,Megatron,Best,Broyles*

Last edited 8/26/2014 2:57 PM by LionsSlashWings

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