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What if?

Posted: 8/26/2014 11:27 AM

What if? 


I think if we all were really honest and looked at Stafford as though he played for another team, our conclusion would be that as a pro he over achieved for 1 season. I think if we were honest we would conclude that he isn't an elite QB, and isn't likely to be one. What if that's true? That said, I believe we can be successful with him as our QB if we simply get him to play within his limitations. Last week they wanted him to take what they were giving, and instead he free lanced on 2nd and 2 instead of getting the first down. He admitted it was a mistake. Fine, great even. IF he can stick to what they want him to do, he is likely to be successful, in fact he may be very successful given the amount of weapons he has to work with. I think he needs to focus less on being "elite", and more on simply being a "game manager". If he cuts down on the turnovers, this team will be exponentially better. If he plays the game the staff wants him to play, those downfield opportunities will present themselves. Take what they give you, make them play YOUR game. It is imperative that this team gets out of the blocks in each and every game. We just need Matt to be disciplined.
I expect to hear from the homers about drops, blah, blah, blah. Well, CJ is always going to be one of the leaders in the league for drops for a couple of reasons. One, he is targeted more than almost any WR in the league. Second, he is double teamed because of this and that means even when he does catch the ball there are guys ripping at it. Third, he has dropped balls because of injuries. So, this is a stat we are going to have to live with BUT, with the increased weapons we have, I would certainly target him less when he IS playing injured, he is still a decoy that is likely to command 2 DB's. Now, with Bush, quit throwing at him if he isn't catching them, same with Pettigrew or Ebron if HE can't catch the ball. ONLY throw at those guys on first or second down, don't let guys who drop the ball kill your drive. CJ is the ONLY one in that group that needs to be on the field on 3rd down.
Take what they give you and don't beat yourselves, it sounds pretty simple but the last HC is gone because he couldn't figure it out. Don't be afraid to replace ANYONE who can't adhere to this. This team needs accountability from every player who takes the field.
What if we can actually do this? Well, I see a 10 win season. If we can't then it's 6 wins and SOL.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 11:43 AM

Re: What if? 


CJ, Tate and Broyles on 3rd down should be $$$
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:08 PM

Re: What if? 


If Stafford played for another team he would terrify me knowing that he could light up my team.  Like every Lion fan I want to see the consistency develop.
___________________________________________

In the land of the blind the man with one eye is king.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:16 PM

Re: What if? 


There isn't many QBs in the league right now that Id rather have than Stafford... the only 1 30 or older id take is Rodgers... the only other one under 30 that I may consider is Luck...

 

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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:23 PM

Re: What if? 


I'm sorry that you either can't be honest with yourself or understand the game then. You are saying that there are only 2 QB's in the league that you may "consider" over Stafford. I doubt there is another person not only on this board but any board for that matter who would agree with you.
Me4LionsPresident wrote: There isn't many QBs in the league right now that Id rather have than Stafford... the only 1 30 or older id take is Rodgers... the only other one under 30 that I may consider is Luck...
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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:28 PM

Re: What if? 


He's only 26.

He's gotten some serious experience now. He's surrounded by weapons. He's got a staff filled with QB coaches...

I'm expecting great things. Stafford has been awesome, in my opinion, with the exception of 3 areas.

1) Slow starts (Let's call it "consistency")
2) Accuracy
3) Pocket Awareness

I'd like to see this staff improve all 3 of these things. I have only seen 2 inaccurate throws delivered throughout the entire preseason. I have seen some good movement in the pocket. Can't really comment on starting slow...they haven't played any real games yet.

If he can improve in these 3 areas, I think he'll slide into that "elite" category currently owned by Manning, Brady, Rogers, etc...

At this moment, I am optimistic that he can do it.  We'll see if I'm singing the same tune come December.



Hi, my name is Kevin and I am a Lionsoholic.

Last edited 8/26/2014 12:28 PM by Radiofriendly420

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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:28 PM

Re: What if? 



LyingFan wrote: I'm sorry that you either can't be honest with yourself or understand the game then. You are saying that there are only 2 QB's in the league that you may "consider" over Stafford. I doubt there is another person not only on this board but any board for that matter who would agree with you.
Me4LionsPresident wrote: There isn't many QBs in the league right now that Id rather have than Stafford... the only 1 30 or older id take is Rodgers... the only other one under 30 that I may consider is Luck...
ok, you got me... there are 3 other ones that I would have taken at some point over Stafford, maybe 5-10 years ago: Brady, Manning and Brees... but not anymore

 

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Posted: 8/26/2014 12:54 PM

Re: What if? 


Ok, let's be honest.

Stafford is a good but not elite quarterback.  I am not ready to say that he will never be elite because I really want to see how he grows this year with a new staff coaching him. 

If he plays within the system and uses the talent around him, I believe he will be quite successful.  When he tries to "make something happen" it can be painful to watch. 

He has the physical tools.  Mentally I think he is much farther along than many give him credit for.  His accuracy can legitimately be called into question at times.  His decision making can as well... but few who play the position don't have a stray brain-fart every now and then.

He isn't a top tier quarterback at this time.  Most agree that there are four of those guys.  I believe that Andrew Luck is starting to make a case to be the best of the rest.  After that you have a typical bell curve.  You can make cases for your favorites... I tend to value Super Bowl wins so guys like Eli, Flaco, Ben, Wilson will have an edge there in my eyes.  But you can just as easily say they were products of the team around them and you can have a grand argument there if you like.  So after the SB winners, sort out the rest and Stafford is among them.  He can pile up the yards, but he hasn't piled up the wins.  Still talented.  

It bothers me that I tend to put him right there with Jay Cutler.  Somewhere over Tony Romo, but not quite to Phillip Rivers.

So now we wait to see what changes this staff has been able to make.  Let's see how they help him grow.  IF they can help him progress, he has all of the tools to be amazing.  If he doesn't grow, he will remain a good, if not frustrating, quarterback that never quite lived up to expectations.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:28 PM

Re: What if? 


+1
Hins0042 wrote: Ok, let's be honest.

Stafford is a good but not elite quarterback.  I am not ready to say that he will never be elite because I really want to see how he grows this year with a new staff coaching him. 

If he plays within the system and uses the talent around him, I believe he will be quite successful.  When he tries to "make something happen" it can be painful to watch. 

He has the physical tools.  Mentally I think he is much farther along than many give him credit for.  His accuracy can legitimately be called into question at times.  His decision making can as well... but few who play the position don't have a stray brain-fart every now and then.

He isn't a top tier quarterback at this time.  Most agree that there are four of those guys.  I believe that Andrew Luck is starting to make a case to be the best of the rest.  After that you have a typical bell curve.  You can make cases for your favorites... I tend to value Super Bowl wins so guys like Eli, Flaco, Ben, Wilson will have an edge there in my eyes.  But you can just as easily say they were products of the team around them and you can have a grand argument there if you like.  So after the SB winners, sort out the rest and Stafford is among them.  He can pile up the yards, but he hasn't piled up the wins.  Still talented.  

It bothers me that I tend to put him right there with Jay Cutler.  Somewhere over Tony Romo, but not quite to Phillip Rivers.

So now we wait to see what changes this staff has been able to make.  Let's see how they help him grow.  IF they can help him progress, he has all of the tools to be amazing.  If he doesn't grow, he will remain a good, if not frustrating, quarterback that never quite lived up to expectations.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 1:31 PM

Re: What if? 



My feelings exactly.

---------------------------------------------
--- Hins0042 wrote:

Ok, let's be honest.

Stafford is a good but not elite quarterback.  I am not ready to say that he will never be elite because I really want to see how he grows this year with a new staff coaching him. 

If he plays within the system and uses the talent around him, I believe he will be quite successful.  When he tries to "make something happen" it can be painful to watch. 

He has the physical tools.  Mentally I think he is much farther along than many give him credit for.  His accuracy can legitimately be called into question at times.  His decision making can as well... but few who play the position don't have a stray brain-fart every now and then.

He isn't a top tier quarterback at this time.  Most agree that there are four of those guys.  I believe that Andrew Luck is starting to make a case to be the best of the rest.  After that you have a typical bell curve.  You can make cases for your favorites... I tend to value Super Bowl wins so guys like Eli, Flaco, Ben, Wilson will have an edge there in my eyes.  But you can just as easily say they were products of the team around them and you can have a grand argument there if you like.  So after the SB winners, sort out the rest and Stafford is among them.  He can pile up the yards, but he hasn't piled up the wins.  Still talented.  

It bothers me that I tend to put him right there with Jay Cutler.  Somewhere over Tony Romo, but not quite to Phillip Rivers.

So now we wait to see what changes this staff has been able to make.  Let's see how they help him grow.  IF they can help him progress, he has all of the tools to be amazing.  If he doesn't grow, he will remain a good, if not frustrating, quarterback that never quite lived up to expectations.

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Posted: 8/26/2014 3:54 PM

Re: What if? 





---------------------------------------------
--- Hins0042 wrote:


It bothers me that I tend to put him right there with Jay Cutler.  Somewhere over Tony Romo, but not quite to Phillip Rivers.


---------------------------------------------

Stafford isn't even close to Romo, yet alone better.

Romo career numbers: 64.6 comp %, 208 td's, 101 INTS, .571 winning %.

Stafford: 59.5 comp %, 109 tds, 73 INTs, .387 winning %.

Let's keep it realistic, please. Romo and Rivers are much better QBs than Stafford and it's not even close. Romo
gets a bad rap because he throws very untimely picks.. Just like I believe people think that Dalton sucks because he is a ginger.

If you want to compare Stafford with anyone it should be Carson Palmer, but even that loser has been better than Stafford.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 4:36 PM

Re: What if? 


If I weren't a Lions fan then this would be my assessment:

1) Poor guy got drafted to the worst franchise in professional sports
2) He hasn't really had any solid coaching since entering the league
3) Aside from Megatron he's only played with scrub receivers. 
4) All that being said, he's shows repeatedly that he's an undisciplined QB who forces throws and makes poor decisions. His mechanics are also questionable. Some of this can be attribed to (1) and (2), but only this year will tell. 
5) Therefore, if Stafford does not shape up this year, then he's a bust.

As a matter of fact, that would be my assessment of Stafford regardless if I were a Lions fan or not. We have to be mindful that he has not had good coaching and was drafted to a pathetic organization, but that does not exonerate him completely from his performance thus far in the league. 

Although he has been in the league for 5 years, I am not counting his first 2 for obvious reasons. He played really well in 2011, regressed in 2012, and played really well for the first 8 games last season then regressed heavily in the last 8 games (including the wins against Dallas and Green Bay where he threw like 2-3 picks in each). It's clear that it's difficult to evaluate him because he's such a ? player on a ? team. This season will tell all.

Personally, I don't care about him becoming an elite QB. He can be like Flacco and just win 1 Super Bowl so I can die in peace.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:15 PM

Re: What if? 


Most teams don't even have GOOD quarterbacks. Stop whining!
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:23 PM

Re: What if? 





---------------------------------------------
--- iggy14 wrote:




---------------------------------------------
--- Hins0042 wrote:


It bothers me that I tend to put him right there with Jay Cutler.  Somewhere over Tony Romo, but not quite to Phillip Rivers.


---------------------------------------------

Stafford isn't even close to Romo, yet alone better.

Romo career numbers: 64.6 comp %, 208 td's, 101 INTS, .571 winning %.

Stafford: 59.5 comp %, 109 tds, 73 INTs, .387 winning %.

Let's keep it realistic, please. Romo and Rivers are much better QBs than Stafford and it's not even close. Romo
gets a bad rap because he throws very untimely picks.. Just like I believe people think that Dalton sucks because he is a ginger.

If you want to compare Stafford with anyone it should be Carson Palmer, but even that loser has been better than Stafford.

---------------------------------------------

Winning percentage shouldn't be anywhere near this. You've got a decent point but including that stat destroys it.

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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:45 PM

Re: What if? 


I'm sorry that you expect Stafford to be better than he is when you 'know' what BS he had beginning on this team -I refuse to lay out what I mean by BS, because every time I do it just called excuses.

you can't say anything about matt having it rough without it bein just another excuse ...so no.

many of you insist-he has no more excuses-really?? WHY have these new guys played years for the Lions and are so good that -it makes that statement true?

nope....we don't know what we have-or still don't have.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 5:58 PM

Re: What if? 



BrownPride1 wrote: I
3) Aside from Megatron he's only played with scrub receivers. 

Let's look at who Joey Harrington had to throw to his rookie year...

His leading receiver was Bill Schroeder

Next most productive guy was Az Hakim

Followed by Scotty Anderson

Would you dare tell someone who had these 3 guys, "Aside from Jerry Rice, Montana had nothing...." 

Please, just stop.
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:09 PM

Re: What if? 



LyingFan wrote: I'm sorry that you either can't be honest with yourself or understand the game then. You are saying that there are only 2 QB's in the league that you may "consider" over Stafford. I doubt there is another person not only on this board but any board for that matter who would agree with you.
Me4LionsPresident wrote: There isn't many QBs in the league right now that Id rather have than Stafford... the only 1 30 or older id take is Rodgers... the only other one under 30 that I may consider is Luck...
I'm not too far away from him.  Would trade a 26 year old Stafford for Peyton who is one hit away from never playing the game again when we have the mighty Dan and Kellen waiting in the wings?  Brees and Brady are really good and may have some shelf life.  Rogers is a stud and still has mileage and Luck is really good and young.  After that who?  Kap?  Spare me.  Foles?  Maybe.  Cam?  Maybe.  RGIII?  No.  Wilson?  He's pretty good and young.  Thing is NONE of those younger guys have put up a season like Stafford did in 2011.  Call it a fluke if you want.  I call it the only season he played with a playmaking WR across from CJ.  Guess I'm a homer. noidea

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
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Posted: 8/26/2014 6:58 PM

Re: What if? 


I can see a good argument for:

Matt Ryan
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Tony Romo
Andrew Luck
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Aaron Rodgers

All of which I currently rank above Stafford.  And that's not even throwing in the old guys (Peyton, Brady, Brees) or debatable guys like Cutler, RGIII, Flacco, Foles, and Dalton.  Stafford couldn't win a division with Ponder, McCown, and Flynn as the starting QBs.

Last edited 8/26/2014 7:06 PM by socko

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Posted: 8/26/2014 7:08 PM

Re: What if? 



socko wrote: I can see a good argument for:

Matt Ryan
Phil Rivers
Ben Roethlisberger
Tony Romo
Andrew Luck
Cam Newton
Russell Wilson
Colin Kaepernick
Aaron Rodgers

All of which I currently rank above Stafford.  And that's not even throwing in the old guys (Peyton, Brady, Brees) or debatable guys like Cutler, RGIII, Flacco, Foles, and Dalton.
Kaepernick sucks compared to Stafford.  Luck and Rodgers yes.  Wilson and Rivers is borderline as is Ben.  The rest I would not trade straight up for Matt.  The litmus test for me is let Matt trade places with those other teams and do they get better or worse.  You think SF would be worse off with Stafford and Kap would have made us better??  No way.

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
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Posted: 8/26/2014 7:13 PM

Re: What if? 


I think we have better players on offense than San Fran, so if I'm handicapping anyone it would be Kaep.  The best argument you can make for Stafford is poor coaching.

Last edited 8/26/2014 7:14 PM by socko

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