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Lions to likely lose Suh?

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Posted: 8/13/2014 3:56 PM

Lions to likely lose Suh? 


 

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Posted: 8/13/2014 4:01 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


Detroit Lions scoring offense have ranked on average 22nd in Calvin Johnson's first 4 seasons and 18th in passing TDs the first 4 seasons. he has yet to be a difference-maker in terms of team production and there is little reason to think that will change over the next two years. Teams do not compromise their salary structure for a non-difference making player.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 4:06 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


Good insight in that article as to how Mayhew and Lewand jacked up the reworkings of Suh's contracts, and how it's left them with no flexibility or good options now. But hey, at least that freed-up money brought us some good playoff memories. Oh, wait ...
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Posted: 8/13/2014 4:27 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


They are losing Suh & Fairley. After investing so much into the DT position over the years they are gonna have to start all over again with getting two new DTs...
"Oh that's great"
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  • BigPlayDre
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Posted: 8/13/2014 4:35 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


The roster is too talented to trade Suh right now. The better course of action is to hope Caldwell can turn around the ship and get this team into the playoffs which will hopefully encourage Suh enough to want to stay. There's certainly enough talent on the roster to compete. Stafford needs a big year.

If the team falls apart early in the season, then yes we should look to trade Suh before the deadline as I doubt he will stick around. That being said, the NFL is not like other sports, in that there aren't nearly as many marquee trade deadline deals so who knows how realistic of a possibility this is.

I can see why national writers would look at our record last year and say we need to trade Suh before he walks for nothing, but with an explosive offense and a dangerous front 7, this team needs to give itself a chance to win. Full stop. We would get a 3rd round compensatory pick for Suh anyway, (is this not correct?), so what's the rush to trade him now for a 2nd? Does not make much sense.

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Posted: 8/13/2014 4:48 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



BigWillieStyle wrote: They are losing Suh & Fairley. After investing so much into the DT position over the years they are gonna have to start all over again with getting two new DTs...
Or maybe a good 2 down 325lb NT and a backup and move Fairley to LDE as a run stopper.
start running nickle psycho with Fairley on the point on 3rd down and in quarters\ 1-3-7
Lbers are kinda small tho, need to get bigger faster.

Id watch for JesseWilliams to get cut., likely can sign him cheap.
Steelers only had 2 NT on the roster last year.  No need for 3 NT's,  use a big DE like a Fairley on 3rd down and long.

Suh could justify the money if he went to DE and plays 3rd down as the NT in sub packages. Fairley is cheaper tho.

Lions are still running a 43base, Ziggy needs to learn zone coverage to move to 34LOBO
This is a lightweight multifront Hybrid D, It wont be pretty vs the run till they get the right players to fit the scheme.
VanNoy even needs to learn zone coverage and become more flexible

Last edited 8/13/2014 5:06 PM by 1mathis

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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:00 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


In my mind we've already lost Suh. I will be shocked if he stays, and I like that proposition better than thinking he stays. Then when he leaves I will be depressed.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:18 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


Suh is replaceable, the new scheme says he is obsolete here unless he is more flexible and willing to work within the new scheme.
Playing NT on 3rd down..... apparently he doesnt like that idea. of double teamed and chipped by a 3rd guy out of the backfield
going for his knees when he is getting jacked by two O-linemen. He then has to read and react and take on blockers
to keep the linebackers clean.  That isnt his game at all and those guys play for much less money.
Dude has enjoyed playin 3tech since college. stats prove it.
Just dont see Fairly as a NT in Hybrid scheme, maybe 3rd down if he puts the weight back on to 300#
Steve McLendon played it at 280 but they made him go to 325# to take over for Hampton.
McLendon remains very fast even at 325#.  he added muscle and bulk the Steeler way.....hehe
Lions jerk Fairley around too much with the weight thing. Weight is ok if the muscle is added and no loss of speed or acceleration.
Ive seen Hayward playin the NT spot in nickle psycho, quarters and 1-3-7 or 3 deep on 3rd down often and Ive seen him just blow up
OC's like it was nothing.

Last edited 8/13/2014 5:42 PM by 1mathis

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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:36 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


I've felt this way for a year, and the numbers breakdown in that article confirms it: I like Suh, but he's not worth what we'll need to pay to keep him. No way.


"The business of progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."

--GK Chesterton
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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:48 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



BigWillieStyle wrote: They are losing Suh & Fairley. After investing so much into the DT position over the years they are gonna have to start all over again with getting two new DTs...
Yep.  We're on the verge of a complete rebuild.  I think we should consider trading Calvin Johnson because (a) he's my favorite Lion of all-time and deserves to play on a winner while still in his prime and (b) he has a lot of value and the Lions have almost no chance of winning a Superbowl in his remaining years.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:49 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


I want to see the Lions vs Steelers in the SB so we can spank the sweatervests back to reality......
Steelers are about 2 yrs away same as the Lions..... Lions have to deny them a 7th ring.
Seattle will lose players, Suh should be here for that ring

Last edited 8/13/2014 5:56 PM by 1mathis

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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:54 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


we DID lose Fairley?.....last I heard he had been demoted for a day due to his unusual actions.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 5:57 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



wolfcub36 wrote: we DID lose Fairley?.....last I heard he had been demoted for a day due to his unusual actions.
No fatty is still ours.  I think people are saying we're going to lose Fairley because Mayhew is clearly fed up with him.  It's his own damn fault as the red flags were there when he was drafted.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 6:26 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


Hahahahaha.  Silly article.

To get an idea of how rigorous this writer thinks, consider his premise:

The best option at this point is for the Lions to strongly consider trading Suh to the highest bidder before the preseason concludes.

OK, so we strongly consider it.  Are we done?  I guess we must be better off because we have just exercised our best option.

He compares the cost of Atkins and Ngata as difference makers, claiming Suh isn't.  He's out of his mind.  Go watch the film and tell what that Lions DL would be without him.  Improve the secondary and this is top 10 defense.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 6:36 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


We can't afford Suh!!! Never mind the fact that we have an uber talented team right now, and have him at an uber high cap charge. Sounds a little like SEC fans claiming other teams couldn't survive an SEC schedule, and turning a blind eye to Mizzou and Texas A&M cutting thru it like hot butter.

I hope I never "understand" the logic that having no one at $12M this year is better than having Suh at $22M. And in reality, it's having no one at $22M, cause who are we really going to sign with the other $10M at this point? Dang, we missed out on Julius Peppers. *sarcasm*
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Posted: 8/13/2014 6:43 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



wesleysh21 wrote: We can't afford Suh!!! Never mind the fact that we have an uber talented team right now, and have him at an uber high cap charge. Sounds a little like SEC fans claiming other teams couldn't survive an SEC schedule, and turning a blind eye to Mizzou and Texas A&M cutting thru it like hot butter.

I hope I never "understand" the logic that having no one at $12M this year is better than having Suh at $22M. And in reality, it's having no one at $22M, cause who are we really going to sign with the other $10M at this point? Dang, we missed out on Julius Peppers. *sarcasm*
A&M cut through the SEC like hot butter? A 6-2 and 4-4 season?  With a new coaching staff and a special college talent at QB.  The 2011 A&M team was good too...just **** luck and alright coaching (they blew like 6 4th quarter leads).

Missouri sucked its first season in the SEC (due some to injuries) and then won the SEC East (due to injuries to other teams...and avoiding the top 3 teams in the SEC West).

Not quite hot butter.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 6:59 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


The article does have some sound logic in it. But the Suh situation is one that is, at the very least, polarizing. Some would say, the cap charges will be absorbed by the rising salary cap, no big deal. But I say it is. Let me say... Suh is the best damm DT in the league in my opinion. He is (assumed) to be asking more than the Lions are willing to pay. The Lions historically have been willing to pay very well. Which leads me to believe Suh has set his price too high for the Lions. Perhaps intentionally.

I think I've said this before... next year, at the latest, Suh will be playing for the Seattle Suhhawks. It makes total sense for him. Thing is... Seattle won't probably give anything now, when they know they'll have a legit shot at a hometown discount next offseason. So... Lions are screwed. Probably no trade will happen, because everyone around the NFL knows Suh wants to play for the Suhhawks. Case closed in my opinion. No trade. No how. Then... First day of FA next offseason, Suh signs with the Suhhawks.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 7:00 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



redwing777 wrote: Hahahahaha.  Silly article.

To get an idea of how rigorous this writer thinks, consider his premise:

The best option at this point is for the Lions to strongly consider trading Suh to the highest bidder before the preseason concludes.

OK, so we strongly consider it.  Are we done?  I guess we must be better off because we have just exercised our best option.

He compares the cost of Atkins and Ngata as difference makers, claiming Suh isn't.  He's out of his mind.  Go watch the film and tell what that Lions DL would be without him.  Improve the secondary and this is top 10 defense.
Suh is a damn good player-what are we replacing him for? If you think the next guy won't ask to be paid exactly like this IF we part ways with Suh....your wrong.

There is nothing wrong with Suh....Fairley hell yeah,  I mean I like Fairley- but it's getting annoying.

We 'know' Suh is an annual Pro Bowl candidate and we should embrace that.

the Only thing Suh could do to absolutely p!## fans off here is ask for a monster contract -considerably more than the highest paid DT in the League is/was.

Then, fine.  But the next man you bring in is going to ask  to be paid just as large, WHY do that -when we can just keep Suh......you wanna cut somebody, cut Fairley it just makes more sense.

Suh is young and NOT injured, NOT broken, and CAN play, CAN lock down that one side.

I'm not so confident Fairley will/can and he just is acting awkward...
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Posted: 8/13/2014 7:05 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 


Teh Lions bungling the Suh contract thing is starting to get annoying.  Guys restructure all the time on every team, even guys (like CJ and Matt) with HUGE contracts- the thing is, when they sign their extension, then everything is fine.  Suh either A) doesn't want to play for the Lions or B) wants WAY more money than he is worth.  Those are the two possible scenarios for why there hasn't been a long term deal locked down- say what you want about our FO, but they haven't been stingy with their stars and the folks they want to keep. 

If he doesn't want to play here, he isn't signing anything anyways, regardless of how the cap was managed.  And if he wants more than whatever offer we gave him, he gets to see what the open market will bear. 

The only thing the Lions salary structure management has done is make it nearly prohibitively expensive to franchise him next year, but franchising a guy who doesnt want to be here and won't sign a long term deal isn't an option that holds any interest for me.

Also, the idea that the team goes into complete rebuild if Suh and/or Fairley walks is a joke.  We have 4 total starters in their 30s.  Two interior lineman, one who is in his prime and the other whose replacement we just picked, Ihedigbo and Mathis.  If Suh and Fairley leave it would suck, but I'm also pretty sure we can use that 26 mil in cap space in some other way.
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Posted: 8/13/2014 7:19 PM

Re: Lions to likely lose Suh? 



redwing777 wrote: 
He compares the cost of Atkins and Ngata as difference makers, claiming Suh isn't.  He's out of his mind.  Go watch the film and tell what that Lions DL would be without him.  Improve the secondary and this is top 10 defense.

Except this isn't what he said. He said Atkins and Suh are pretty comparable players, and if you look at production--pressures, tackles, sacks--Atkins is slightly superior. 

And he uses this observation to point out that Atkins--who got a new deal just last year--still got a lower contract with less guaranteed money than Suh's rookie deal.

He's not saying that Suh isn't a difference-maker--just that the difference he makes isn't enough to justify paying him like a QB--which is how he's being paid as a second-overall draft pick. 

If you think Suh is going to take a new deal from the Lions that has less guaranteed money and lower salaries than the deal he's completing, good luck. And if he's looking for a pay RAISE for his next contract, let someone else give it to him. He's a very good player, he DOES make a difference, but he doesn't make enough of a difference to justify tying up that much cap in him.


"The business of progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."

--GK Chesterton
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