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Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll

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Posted: 7/21/2014 2:41 PM

Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


Please, leave your bias fandom at home...

Lets discuss the reasoning behind the conclusion and possible misconceptions used to give Stafford a low grade.

#JawsQBCountdown has Denver Broncos QB Peyton Manning as the No. 1 QB in the NFL.    New England PatriotsTom Brady 2, Green Bay Packers Aaron Rodgers 3, New Orleans Saints Drew Brees 4, Indianapolis Colts Andrew Luck 5
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Posted: 7/21/2014 3:02 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


I don't think Stafford's grade is too low, if you look at the career QB ratings for active QBs, he comes in at 15th for QBs with more than 1500 attempts.   He throws a few too many INTs and INCs, some of both were not really his fault but that is true for every QB.   The truth is he ain't as accurate yet as he needs to be;   maybe over the next 5 - 10 years he joins the elite at the top, but the honeymoon is over and it's time for him to to up his game.



http://www.pro-football-refere...ting_active.htm
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Posted: 7/21/2014 3:08 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


He needs to up his game, for sure.  But it's hard for me to believe that guys like Cam, Kap or Wilson are above him, at least in terms of ability.  Those guys also have defenses that can keep a score low, and they aren't asked to do half as much as Stafford is.  

My Honolulu blue glasses may cloud my vision a bit, but outside of 1-4, there isn't a guy on that list I'd trade Stafford for.  If I was to build my team around a young QB, #5 is the only guy that I would even consider over Stafford.

Edit:  I'm not too offended by the ratings though.  It comes down to results and wins, and I get that.

Last edited 7/21/2014 3:19 PM by HonoluluBlueballs

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Posted: 7/21/2014 3:12 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


1st I'll start off by saying that in my mind, there's the big 4 (Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, Brees).. and then everyone else. I wouldn't even have a #5 in my ranking 'cuz there's that much of a drop off from Brees (#4) to the next guy. #5 would be a blank basically. That is why I prefer to break them down in Tier groups instead of rankings. But I digress.

- I believe the loss of Steve Smith really hurts that entire offense... so I think Cam will see a decline this year
- Stafford I think #16 is a bit too low. I thought #13 was fair. Nevertheless I believe Stafford with a better supporting cast around him will prove to rise much, much higher on this list.
- Russel Wilson is an easy guy to root for, and I enjoy watching him
- Rivers is what he is at this point, same as Romo
- Kap & Foles I don't have an opinion of (I still need to see more)
- and Flacco & Eli I could care less about

I don't know what Jaws "used to give Stafford a low grade". I guess one can only assume:

a) film review, ie..pocket awareness, pocket presence, mechanics & read progressions 
b) statistics
*Suh,Megatron,Best,Broyles*
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:17 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


*most* of those dudes have played in / won superbowls and or gone to playoffs repeatedly or more recent than stafford has.  this is stafford's year to shut up all these poll makers and get his name bumped up the list.   he / the lions can do that by winning the division for starters and going to and winning a playoff game.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:55 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


I really couldn't care less about these lists.  Too much emphasis on results generated by the team as a whole, too much bias on what just happened last year, and too much bias on popularity.

All I know is that the only guy I'd trade Stafford straight up for would be Rodgers (though I wouldn't argue too much if someone would do it for Luck).  That doesn't mean that guys like Manning, Brees, etc. aren't better right now, but Matt's talent, potential, age, etc. are tough to beat.  He needs to improve, no doubt.  But it's also nice to think about how good of a position we really are in with Matt.

Also, I'm sick to death of hearing about Russell Wilson.  I like him... a lot, actually.  He's a Big 10 guy, kind of an underdog, etc.  Glad to see him having success.  But let's not confuse being on a really good team with being really talented.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:57 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


I agree with Luck being ahead of him. Not so sure on guys like Kap, Cam, Wilson or Eli. Eli gets the "ring" pass, but I'd still rather have Staff.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 4:58 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


Tough, but Stafford faded badly down the stretch last year. I don't really think that Kap, Wilson, Foles, or Newton have proven themselves better than Stafford but it's not like Stafford did much to help his case last year. Now if I had to pick one of the young QBs out of that group to go out there and steal a game for me I would not hesitate to take Stafford. It's the lack of consistency holding him back IMO.
One of these days, I'm gonna change my evil ways, one of these days. Until then, I'll just keep riding on.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:03 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


So to further go with this topic IF we had one of the other QBs higher than stafford  is ranked would we have finished any of our past seasons better IE playoffs superbowl.... My Two cents (canadian cents since they no longer exisist up here LOL) the top four yes the rest ummmm nope I dont think so
-----------------------------------------------------------------


lionsrocksolid In da house

Is it next year yet?
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Posted: 7/21/2014 5:09 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


AB,
Last season we had the Division in our palms, but let it slip through our fingers like a fist full of sand. And no-one inside of the previous coaching staff could explain to the media/fans, how you could have a winning record against your divisional foes, yet fail to win your division! That was maddening to say the least.

Several posters on this board (including myself) were adamantly against Schwartz and his cronies (Linehan and Gunther) approach to the game and cuddling (reluctant to reprimand) Stafford for his poor performance during the first quarter of the regular season... Needless to say, his poor performance and inadequate coaching became too cancerous and the scar tissue continued to grow throughout the team... #DeathOfARegime

The primary game that highlights this notion, is the game against Baltimore; when we were given optimal opportunities by the Lions Defense to put points on the board against the Ravens; yet, we couldn't sustain an offensive drive worthy of scoring and we eventually lost that game by 6 fieldgoals... Beat by a kicker! Singlehandedly made him a household name and put him in the Pro-Bowl (Pro-bowl isn't a great barometer of talent by the way).
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:12 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 



MikeOxhard wrote:

Also, I'm sick to death of hearing about Russell Wilson.  I like him... a lot, actually.  He's a Big 10 guy, kind of an underdog, etc.  Glad to see him having success.  But let's not confuse being on a really good team with being really talented.

No confusion here. Russell was recruited by Marc Trestman at NC State before Trestman took a Head Coaching job in the CFL with les Alouettes. I've followed Trestman the past 20 years and quite frankly, if Russell is good enough for Trestman?.. than that works for me.
*Suh,Megatron,Best,Broyles*
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:53 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


I think too many minds think a QB makes the team better, whereas I think it definitely goes both ways...because Andrew Luck would be cat crap if he didn't have a good team around him.

Stafford is in the same boat, in that we all know he had problems, issues, flaws in his game, but again he hasn't had that great of a team

OR leadership until now...at least we want to believe we are better, the season will reveal that.

I think any QB needs a good supporting cast no matter who they are, but each one is brought along differently and by that, some are better taught or had better players for longer amounts of time, some QB's pick up things way faster than others, are more naturally fit for their team or scheme, or had been taught mechanics, footwork, decision making, were given more attention earlier on...than others.

I mean I think Stafford had these issues back in Georgia ....no body really was 'hands on' with him about correcting the little things Matt was exhibiting.

they saw great promise in him but didn't "really" think his mechanics and that were all that bad, or felt they did not have time to specifically just spend more time focusing on him.

I think he's getting the help now...but it's his 5th-6th year- and that is just an awful ^%#@@ shame that they are JUST now getting to it in 2014.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 6:53 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


Until Stafford proves he's the 2011 version a few seasons, I really don't care how people rank him.
We see a lot of potential -- we don't see consistency.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:10 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


May not see 100% consistency from Matt for sure. but you certainly don't see 100% consistency out of ANY of our players.....Calvin Johnson is thee VERY closest one to that 100%

but we've had bums and scrubs @ WR and NOBODY @ RB until 2013, nevermind all the dipsh#@Rt HC's that were hands off with Stafford and half the team in the past,to the present day.

The pressure is VERY high for Stafford now-because IF we aren't quite there yet as a quote annually contending team for they Playoffs, we are  much closer to that strength than we have been since he came here.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:26 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 



sleats wrote: Until Stafford proves he's the 2011 version a few seasons, I really don't care how people rank him.
We see a lot of potential -- we don't see consistency.

We agree on something?
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:41 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 



MikeOxhard wrote: I really couldn't care less about these lists.  Too much emphasis on results generated by the team as a whole, too much bias on what just happened last year, and too much bias on popularity.

All I know is that the only guy I'd trade Stafford straight up for would be Rodgers (though I wouldn't argue too much if someone would do it for Luck).  That doesn't mean that guys like Manning, Brees, etc. aren't better right now, but Matt's talent, potential, age, etc. are tough to beat.  He needs to improve, no doubt.  But it's also nice to think about how good of a position we really are in with Matt.

Also, I'm sick to death of hearing about Russell Wilson.  I like him... a lot, actually.  He's a Big 10 guy, kind of an underdog, etc.  Glad to see him having success.  But let's not confuse being on a really good team with being really talented.
I don't understand the hate for Wilson.  Stafford is more a gun-slinger but Wilson is the more complete QB.  His QB rating was 101.2 last year, Staff's was 84.2.  Wilson can run better, has better pocket presence, and is probably a better leader.
I don't think Wilson can carry a team by himself but Stafford has proven that he can't either....to be fair though, there's only 4 QB's that really can.
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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:44 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 





---------------------------------------------
--- Wiseacres wrote:

I don't think Stafford's grade is too low, if you look at the career QB ratings for active QBs, he comes in at 15th for QBs with more than 1500 attempts.   He throws a few too many INTs and INCs, some of both were not really his fault but that is true for every QB.   The truth is he ain't as accurate yet as he needs to be;   maybe over the next 5 - 10 years he joins the elite at the top, but the honeymoon is over and it's time for him to to up his game.



www.pro-football-refere...ting_active.htm

---------------------------------------------

Bingo
#NONEpride

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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:55 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


LionsSlashWings..

Totally agree. Needs to be done in Tiers. I do think Luck will soon be the 5th QB added to the big ones you mentioned.

I am fine with where Stafford is ranking there. Honestly those things are just the flavor of the week anyway. If Kap or Cam comes out and has a down year everyone will start dropping them too. Aside from the top guys, they just rank by most recent performance.

Are we ever gonna win it??

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Posted: 7/21/2014 7:57 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 


I think after Brees the next 12 can go in any order and I also believe they got the top 16 in the league right for the most part, Cutler may be deserving of a top 16 QB but I cant think of anyone else they may have left out unless we see a healthy/confident RGIII.

 

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Posted: 7/21/2014 8:38 PM

Re: Thoughts on Luck and other being above Stafford on this poll 



scottallen222 wrote:
MikeOxhard wrote: I really couldn't care less about these lists.  Too much emphasis on results generated by the team as a whole, too much bias on what just happened last year, and too much bias on popularity.

All I know is that the only guy I'd trade Stafford straight up for would be Rodgers (though I wouldn't argue too much if someone would do it for Luck).  That doesn't mean that guys like Manning, Brees, etc. aren't better right now, but Matt's talent, potential, age, etc. are tough to beat.  He needs to improve, no doubt.  But it's also nice to think about how good of a position we really are in with Matt.

Also, I'm sick to death of hearing about Russell Wilson.  I like him... a lot, actually.  He's a Big 10 guy, kind of an underdog, etc.  Glad to see him having success.  But let's not confuse being on a really good team with being really talented.
I don't understand the hate for Wilson.  Stafford is more a gun-slinger but Wilson is the more complete QB.  His QB rating was 101.2 last year, Staff's was 84.2.  Wilson can run better, has better pocket presence, and is probably a better leader.
I don't think Wilson can carry a team by himself but Stafford has proven that he can't either....to be fair though, there's only 4 QB's that really can.
no hate for Wilson but so far he has been a solid game manager because his defense does not force him to take more risks to score in bunches. I really do not believe that Wilson could have won the Dallas game from last season or the Cleveland game from Staffords rookie season.

sometimes a QB should also have his rating factored by the # of risks he is forced to take because he simply has to score more to win.

while some would say Stafford faded dwon the stretch, I think that Bush did not step up when CJ's injuries mounted to make Staffords job easier.
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