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to lose in 2014.........

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Posted: 7/12/2014 11:38 PM

to lose in 2014......... 


I don't think we talk about it enough.

New system, new leadership, new year, new players, new plays. Do you honestly think we are going to come out and kick ace!?

I'm not saying we don't have the ability, BUT I WILL NOT make the claim we are "better"  we addressed some things we needed to for years in the receiving core, But is this all hype , smoke and mirrors??

we heard nothing about how GOOD the team as a whole is doing together during practices.

individual players yes...but it's training camp fluff until they are in pads.

I refuse to get sucked into the belief that we have a 'set' team that plays well together- I;m worried.

they wanna talk Riddick doing great, WHAT ABOUT THE TEAM!?

What happens when we fall apart this time?   are you done as "a Lions fan?"

Because in reality we could be a mess for a while.....trying to get everybody on the same page and to gel as a team learning this new way under Caldwell & Lombardi.

face it, a MIRACLE would be if the team came out and rolled over every opponent to the point we get to a playoff AND go any reasonable distance in it.

That this team plays like a well-oiled machine, and with few issues.

I'll be frank, I don't see us doing that well....maybe winning 8 games.... I want to be optimistic but can't.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:22 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


You don't think the Lions are better on offense with the addition of Tate and Ebron? Maybe Broyles contributes, maybe not but we got nothing last year from him so it can only be a plus of he does and a wash if he doesn't. Maybe under the new coaching Stafford improves, maybe not but it's hard to believe he'll be any worse. Maybe the Lions are more focused under Caldwell, make fewer TOs, penalties, and mistakes. Caldwell's teams have been good about that, or so I hear. Oh, and one more thing, CJ is healthy again.

Are the Lions any worse at any position group than last year? Don't think so, who'd we lose that was so good? If the Lions do blitz more as they say then it isn't unreasonable to believe they'll force a few more TOs. I wouldn't say they'll be a whole lot better, but I see no reason to think they'll be any worse.

Let's not get crazy and start talking about blowing out people right and left. Most of the games we lost last year were pretty close, it wouldn't take much to turn a few games around IMHO and win a few close ones this year; going from 7-9 to 9-7 or 10-6 isn't that much of a leap really. Let's be real here, being a Lions fan means we've been disappointed so many times. Bad stuff happens, and it seems moreso to these guys than other teams. But good stuff happens too, especially if they can get on a positive streak. Nobody is going to blame you or anyone else for being skeptical, probably be a fool if you weren't. But - man I tell ya, these guys have the potential to be pretty good if they can just get out of their own way. Maybe Caldwell brings that to the table, I sure as hell hope so.

Hey dude, their first preseason game is 4 weeks from today (Saturday). Tell me you ain't the least bit excited to see how they look under the new regime. Tell me you won't be thrilled when Calvin brings down a TD pass or Suh sacks the QB. Or scream at the TV when somebody jumps offside or false starts. Man up Cubbie, admit that you're hooked just like the rest of us.

Last edited 7/13/2014 12:22 AM by Wiseacres

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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:30 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


I pick them to win the division....
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 7/13/2014 7:01 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


Cubster....

Question:

Why can't the Lions turn a corner? And why not give it a few weeks to show the talent has matured, we have added key players, we have better X and O guys and this isn't a continuation of 2013?

I get why the eternal pessimist in you thinks things will break down. However, right now fans in 31 other cities are holding lottery tickets as well. While some have better odds, there is one out there that is going to be a winner, even if it's not of the jackpot. We have a chance this year. There is NO reason we can't compete.

You, of all of us, is perhaps the biggest Stafford supporter here (and I support him like crazy, so I understand).....you can't believe Stafford is going to be acceptable, but the team is going to fail. I won't comp to the theory that it's ALL on Stafford, but if he's as good as we believe.....8 wins would be difficult to pallet in that we had 7 in 2013 and our key players are a year older and a year wiser. And the biggest way for me to sour on Matthew Stafford would be....if he learns NOTHING from that collapse. I expect a more humble and more focused Stafford, which will help the team. And I expect a D that can capitalize on our leads this team and sniff blood in the water and kill. None of this 50 yard TD to deflate our momentum and put the other team in the position we were in just one play earlier.

Also....make NO mistake....I WILL NOT accept the "new regime, new offense" excuse for this team. Will not. If it sputters, I give NO leeway to the coaching or the players. They're professionals. They've had months to study it and, more important, there are many (and I mean many) players who don't take an "off season" and keep studying and improving. Don't care how much we've run it, the O better hum from just about the word "go".

Still, like Wise points out...there are 4 weeks and a camp coming up VERY soon. I don't want to think of failure....now. If it happens, so be it. But, 2014 is a major (and I mean MAJOR) year for Mayhew. It's going to determine the fate of Suh (likely), tell us exactly what Stafford is, tell us how our investment in guys is going to pay off and tell us what direction we should be going in entering 2015.

A LOT of football to be played before I think of failure. A lot.
"He was the backup last year. He was a backup the year before that.He's been a back up his whole career. I don't think anybody would be surprised if I thought he was a backup".

Martin Mayhew on Dan Orlovsky. Detroit Free Press, 2.21.09
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Posted: 7/13/2014 7:28 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 



wolfcub36 wrote: maybe winning 8 games.... I want to be optimistic but can't.
 Wolf , thinking they will win 8 games IS optimistic...





One winning season since Bill Clinton left the White House ...
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Posted: 7/13/2014 8:52 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


Where is your pass rush coming from?  The guy who has gained 50+ lbs of belly fat since entering the league?  Who are your starting corners?  What about when you have to play nickel, who is your 3rd corner?  Dime?  Can Stafford's mechanics be fixed?  Does he even want to fix them?

Oh and thanks to the fine work of Tom Lewand, a team that won 7 games last year is maxed out against the salary cap.  But don't fret, our cap isn't any worse than the Denver Broncos.  eek1

Be afraid, be very afraid.

Last edited 7/13/2014 9:19 AM by socko

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Posted: 7/13/2014 11:25 AM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


I never like this attitude or perception of "What if we suck?!" ...... If our coaches and leadership thought this way we'd never win.

If KC can do it; so can the Lions with a new coach!

We were in , what? , 15 of 16 games last year going into the 4th QTR?

We will be fine - barring the injury bug.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:11 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


Let's put this into perspective...we were 6-3 with a strangle hold on the division and possibly a first round bye before the meltdown so it's not like this team wasn't close to begin with. Since last year, we have added more than we lost.

The biggest factor will be the coaching staff. I absolutely believe that the coaching, or lack there of, was what was keeping us from taking that next step. I don't think anyone disagrees with the notion that Jim Schwartz was good enough to get us to 8-8 but was not the head coach that could get us to 12-4. The new staff has been there and has had success. The o coordinator is not ignoring stafford's mechanics and is much less tolerant of the mental errors. Lastly the new d coordinator practically called out our old regime for being so vanilla and how easy that made game planning for our opponents. These seem like simple things but our previous staff continued to stay the course while expecting the results to change.

Talent has not been our problem. Strategy and leadership have been holding us back and I think the lions have made clear upgrades in both these areas.

I expect to see a massive upgrade on game day and am confident the little things will fall into place that will make us fans scratch our heads and say "damn I guess we were good enough all along. We just needed someone to steer the ship"
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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:43 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


I think thoughts of concern are in the back of every Lion fan's mind. Whether they want to admit it or not there are question marks going into this season and all we can do is hope for the best.

New HC and Coordinators, one of which is a rookie DC.
New scheme on both sides of the ball. I expect some growing pains.
A rookie Kicker

Those are probably my 3 biggest concerns


And then of course we have a few little things that we'll need to hope fall into place if we really want to reach new heights as a team

The maturation of Stafford
Taking better care of the ball (RBs, WRs, and our QB)
How quickly can Ebron really bring what we hope he can bring to our offense
Will Tate really fill that void we need at the #2 WR spot
Can we avoid any major injuries

So I feel ya Wolfcub. I find it very hard to go into a season with complete optimism anymore.

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Posted: 7/13/2014 12:53 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


The Lions do not deserve a lot of credit overall!

But to me this is a better team then the 2013 squad. Tate is an upgrade (over Durham), Ebron is an upgrade as a third weapon (over an aging and injured Burleson I think...ask yourself who has a better chance of playing in 16 games, Ebron of Burleson), the OL is returning all five starters, all the RBs are the same, Fauria is a year older (and more of a known quantity) and so on. I see a better offense on paper.

Regarding the defense...I see an overall improved squad Ziggy in year two, rookie Kyle Van Noy is an upgrade over Ashlee Palmer I think and we didn't lose a lot going from Delmas to Ihedigbo. Regarding teh secondary is it hard to imagine Daruis Slay being worse then 2013 Chris Houston. I would bet that 2014 Slay will be better then the awful 2013 Houston. And Mathis may be a solid player. He was in 2013. And while I think there are huge question marks around Bill Bentley he has solid competition from rookie Lawson AND it is hard to imagine Bentley being worse in 2014 after his experience in 2013.

But you bet anything can happen.

I look at the 2011 49ers for support. That team under performed for years. But a new coach cam in and turned that club around. The 49ers were 6-10 in 2010 and 13-3 the next season.

The NFC North is going to be very, very tough in 2014 and that hurts. But I see an improved Lions team that with better leadership CAN have a solid season if they can play better as a team. I do not think they get a pass on being year one with a new coach. As abject points out, the Chiefs also had a heck of turnaround as well. The Eagles also had a heck of a turnaround as well. All with first year coaches. Caldwell has to hit the ground running. And I think he can with this team, warts and all. No team is perfect.

AND...while I get reasons why the Lions might collapse (Stafford stinks up the place, the WR core gets injured again, Bush continues to lose fumbles and so on) there are also a lot of good things that can happen like Stafford responds well to his improved coaching, Ziggy gets hot as a pass rusher, contract year Nick Fairley lights it up, rookie LBer Kyle Van Noy pushes got rookie defensive player of the year, Golden Tate becomes the perfect compliment to Calvin and so on.

It can legitimately go either way to me. And I can live with that.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 1:00 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 



jerseylion wrote:

Talent has not been our problem. Strategy and leadership have been holding us back and I think the lions have made clear upgrades in both these areas.

This!  well said!!
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Posted: 7/13/2014 1:32 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


The thing is, that the Lions, namely Mayhew have done nothing during his tenure of GM to make me believe they can overtake Aaron Rodgers. You'd think being a former CB himself, that he'd of all people would realize you need a good secondary against these elite QB's.. and low & behold, here we have perhaps the best in the game right now (Rodgers) whom we have to face twice a year.

The Viking's had an All-Pro in Winfield, the Packers with Charles Woodson, before him Al Harris (both All-Pro's in their day). And then the Bears with the All-Pro C.Tillman & Pro-Bowler Tim Jennings.  And now most recently with the additions of Xavier Rhodes & Kyle Fuller.. the NFC North looks to have a couple of more top shelf CB's with bright futures into the fold. They've identified C. Johnson as their biggest threat. They did what was necessary even at the cost of a 1st Rd pick. 

And then there's the Lions.. ah yes the Lions!

It's no wonder I'm so adamant about the need to shore up the secondary every damn year and finally find that #1 caliber type CB.

The Legion of Boom took the league by storm 2 seasons ago and since that SB beat-down..  other serious contenders like the Broncos & Pats have followed suit. But the Lions, in familiar fashion are always 2 steps behind. They still don't get it and I'm not sure if they ever will.

I understand Mayhew tried to trade up for Patrick Peterson so I can cut him some slack here. Rumors as well that he inquired about Asante Samuel a couple of years ago before his game took a nose dive. So I guess it's not for a lack of trying. But that said.. they haven't secured that spot still after all this time.

And then you look around at the rest of our division and see a great duo in Jeffery's & Marshall, the Pack with Jordy Nelson, R.Cobb, and now DaVante Adams.. statistically the top WR in the NCAA the past 2 years. And then there's the Vikings with a bright future in C.Patterson.

Are any of them as good as Megatron?.. well no. But our division rivals do have bright futures at the CB position to hang their hat on.

We have only question marks. They'll have to endure those growing pains together. That process pushes the probability of a Division Title this year even further away.

I don't know how to tell the common Lions fan that it's still gonna take some more time. After all, that's the last thing we wanna hear. But damn..our secondary even after all theses years, aren't still yet ready to show up Aaron Rodgers & Co.



*Suh, Megatron & Best*

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Posted: 7/13/2014 1:45 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


Pettigrew in particular was a terrible waste of money that should have been spent on a defensive back.  Tow Lewand again overpaying for mediocre talent.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 1:55 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


In 2009 Aaron Rodgers was awesome against the Lions. A 113.7 rating V. the Lions in Green Bay and a 124.7 rating V. the Lions on Turkey day. Awesome.

In 2010 that began to change. Rodgers was great at home V, the Lions with a 105.3 rating but in Detroit he was awful. Rodgers had a 34.7 rating in Detroit before he got knocked out. He was awful before he got knocked out.

In 2011 Rodgers got hot in the second half versus the Lions. And most of Detroit's starting secondary left this game at that point. The Lions played very, very well against Rodgers in the first half but Rodgers finished up with an awesome half versus scrubs with a 116.6 rating. That game was 7-0 at the half Green Bay due to a late Stafford turnover I believe. Rodgers didn't play in the second game in Green Bay when both offenses lit it up.

In 2012 we had Rodgers number before the defense allowed a late TD to Rodgers/Cobb that sealed the win for the Packers 24-20 but the Lions had the lead until very late that game. Rodgers rating was 106.4 with that late TD included. The next game Rodgers was very regular with an 80.7 rating.

In 2013 we let the Pack off the mat in Green Bay thanks to Chris Houston. The final score was 22-9 but that didn't tell the tale of this game. Rodgers had a 106.8 rating but the game through half was very close and we didn't have Calvin (and we gave up 5 sacks!). We blew up the Pack w/out Rodgers and Cobb in Detroit.

As bad as the Lion's secondary has been...Rodgers has mostly beat us due to stupid blown assignments...not a lack of secondary talent. I think we play Rodgers overall good if guys can just NOT give up the big stupid plays.

Rodgers is the best QB in the game in my opinion. But Lions MENTAL mistakes have really given away games to the Pack these past few seasons, not physical or talent-based mistakes. And losing J. Jones and a healthy Finley is not going to make the Packers better on offense (as stated by Hyatt). Yep the Packers are pretty darn good still. But is the Lions stop hurting themselves I think we can hang with Rodgers. And if Stafford becomes more consistent these ARE going to be great games in 2014.

Overall these games have been very, very close against the Packers. 2009 was terrible. But most games since have been competitive.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 3:07 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


And NO! It it not lost on me to argue that we have played Rodgers well but given up that many 100+ rating games.

My point is not that our secondary is great but rather that we are closer to being a decent unit then it seems.

In 2010 we split with the Pack. And the Lions ALMOST won in Green Bay that year falling by 28-26 (with a tremendous INT by Alphonso Smith). The defense allowed no second half points to Rodgers. Shaun Hill was QB and he threw a pick 6 that made the game 14-28 and the Lions scored the last four drives but all field goals. The defense could not stop the Packers in the fourth quarter as they ran out the clock with a 6:32 drive. In those two 2010 games we sacked Rodgers 4 times so that was pretty good.

In 2011 we sacked Rodgers 2 times in one game (the Packers won both those games). In 2012 we sacked Rodgers 6 times (3 each) in two games (and lost both games). And in 2013 we split again with one game without Rodgers (and we lost that game in Green Bay). And we sacked Rodgers once.

But when you look at these games the Packers just had the talent when it really counted, either on offense or defense.

In 2012 we lost the second to last Lions drive (down 24-20) with incomplete passes to Titus Young and TE Tony Scheffler (neither guy in the league anymore) with a false start penalty on Gosder Cherilus (no longer with the team). In 2013 we got roasted in the one game V. Rodgers with huge plays given up by Delmas (a HUGE missed tackle on an end around by Cobb...Delmas is no longer with the team: www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013100...yze=playbyplay) and Chris Houston (no longer with the team). That game was 6-3 at the half. Then 9-36 after we stop the Pack after the long Cobb run. Then Houston forgets what the hell is going on (www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2013100...73&tab=analyze) and the game is 16-3 really on two horrible player mistakes by Delmas and Houston. That pass TD was an 83 yard play...and on Delmas side (the Houston apparent error).

I see a defense at times that had the talent to win just just didn't play well at critical times. Esp. against Rodgers.

If the coaches can just field a team that does not make glaring errors I think this team will be able to compete in a lot of games. One play here and one play there against elite talent and you go from playing well enough to win to actually losing.

Those two plays by Delmas (missing a critical tackle on an end around on first down) and Chris Houston (burned for an 83 yard TD...on a 1st down and 20 after a Green bay penalty) really I think encapsulate Schwartz time here: close but still a few plays away.

I think Slay will be a step up from 2013 Houston in 2014 and I think Mathis will be okay for one more season.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:08 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


I don't suspect the Packers Offense will fall off much, if at all. We know how good J.Nelson & R.Cobb are already. Then consider Jarrett Boykin, though not consistent, was able to show some promise at times last year. There's also Davante Adams who will just continue to be a weapon in the red-zone at the next level. And lastly, who here wouldn't take Jared Abbrederis & Jeff Janis on the back end of our own depth chart?

We may have the very best in the game in Calvin Johnson. But the Packers WR corp is deep. And it's just the beginning.









*Suh, Megatron & Best*

Last edited 7/13/2014 4:17 PM by LionsSlashWings

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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:40 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


Nah...I agree with Hyatt that losing Greg Jennings (in 2013), Jason Jones (to the Raiders in 2014) and J. Finley will have SOME impact on the Packers.

You bet they are good. And Eddie Lacey is the real deal as well. But Jones was a really nice weapon for the packers and while Boykin may be good also losing Finley will not help the Packers.

I think the Packers and Bears have the two best offenses in the NFC North followed by the Lions. But if Stafford gets hot and Tate proves to be a weapon the Lions may change that order.

And on defense the Lions have the best defense in the division. A healthy C. Mathews will help the Packers (Clay has missed 9 NFL games these past two seasons). But the Lions have a solid defense overall even with a shakey secondary.

The Lions allowed 376 2013 points, the Packers allowed 428 points in 2013 and the Vikes and Bears allowed 480 and 478 points.

I expect all the NFL North teams to field a better defense in 2014 but I think the Lions have the best defense of the bunch with ALL players healthy team for team.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 4:55 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


And with such a huge discrepancy in points allowed.. you'd almost think the Lions ran away with the division crown last season.

Go Stats! noidea



*Suh, Megatron & Best*

Last edited 7/13/2014 4:56 PM by LionsSlashWings

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Posted: 7/13/2014 5:10 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


IF we win 8 games and nothing more, you'd be happy !? -doubt that. I can tell you this fan base would be hot, really ticked off to.

It' be a hate/bash storm in here. -just saying noidea 8 games isn't "optimistic." as you put it-or think.
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Posted: 7/13/2014 5:18 PM

Re: to lose in 2014......... 


NO, I don't think they are "better" haven't played a damn thing - or  PROVED their worth, it will take TWO -3 seasons of playing well to say "ok they got it and their good.

If they went to the playoffs this season great, but that doesn't mean they can keep getting there  they MUST have a few seasons of good sound play period.

not 1 season wonders and go back to choking at the end of them AGAIN. confused
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