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Ebron OROTY?

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Posted: 6/15/2014 1:29 PM

Ebron OROTY? 


Well I just was standing next to him in the pits here at Michigan International Speedway. He said he is gonna come out in force and believes he will have a very good year. I told him I got the team winning the NFC North (which I do because I have said it repeatedly...)
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 6/15/2014 1:38 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


Only one ball though, and a lotta guys wanting it. By many accounts the Lions will run it more often, as evidenced by their commitment to having and using a fullback. Then consider they went out and got Tate and resigned Pettigrew, and will drops be a problem for Ebron until he gets more comfortable with playing against NFL talent. Oh, and CJ is 100% healthy, he's going to get his share. I do hope Ebron does well this year, but I want to temper my expectations a little bit.
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Posted: 6/15/2014 2:06 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


I can see him catching 5, 6 TDs, 45 receptions maybe. He is a nice, humble kid. He had his fiancee with him. I pointed him out to my camera man and our pit - producer knew exactly who he was. Hopefully it made air...
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 6/15/2014 2:07 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


id be happy with 700 yards and 5 or 6 TDs

 

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Posted: 6/15/2014 5:14 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


Amani Toomer says you have to look past Ebron's stats. Him and Tiki Barber had career years in Shockey's rookie season, and Toomer said it was because of the problems Shockey presented. He said they would pray all game for certain looks from the defense, and get them a handful of times per game. Once Shockey arrived, they got those looks most of the game. Bringing everything full circle, Sean Payton was the OC for the Giants that year. Payton brought Shockey to the Saints and won a Super Bowl with him, before moving on from Shockey to Jimmy Graham.

I think it's funny on NFL radio that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan are doing a special series teaching the pro formations, play calls and concepts. They will give an offensive formation, personnel group, protection scheme...whatever...then say how the defense will react. Multiple times they have had to stop and say "unless you are playing the Lions, then you have some real issues." You have to do so much more preparation against us, and the defense has to understand how players change everything. Like if there is 3 WRs to the right, and a single receiver to the left, you shade coverage to the trips side...unless you are playing the Lions, and the single receiver is Calvin Johnson. Many of the other examples keyed around different sets and the issue of whether to treat Ebron and Bush like receivers or a traditional TE and RB. Jim Miller said if he had our weapons, he would make sure the defense was always wrong (with line checks).

I am really starting to understand the wisdom in taking Ebron. He adds to the play calling problems having Calvin already presented, on top of the additional play call problems Reggie presents. The faster the offense moves, the harder it will be on the defense, because they can't just relay the number of TEs, RBs and WRs in the game. They have to find a way to communicate WHO exactly those guys are.

Last edited 6/15/2014 5:19 PM by wesleysh21

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Posted: 6/15/2014 5:54 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



wesleysh21 wrote: Amani Toomer says you have to look past Ebron's stats. Him and Tiki Barber had career years in Shockey's rookie season, and Toomer said it was because of the problems Shockey presented. He said they would pray all game for certain looks from the defense, and get them a handful of times per game. Once Shockey arrived, they got those looks most of the game. Bringing everything full circle, Sean Payton was the OC for the Giants that year. Payton brought Shockey to the Saints and won a Super Bowl with him, before moving on from Shockey to Jimmy Graham.

I think it's funny on NFL radio that Jim Miller and Pat Kirwan are doing a special series teaching the pro formations, play calls and concepts. They will give an offensive formation, personnel group, protection scheme...whatever...then say how the defense will react. Multiple times they have had to stop and say "unless you are playing the Lions, then you have some real issues." You have to do so much more preparation against us, and the defense has to understand how players change everything. Like if there is 3 WRs to the right, and a single receiver to the left, you shade coverage to the trips side...unless you are playing the Lions, and the single receiver is Calvin Johnson. Many of the other examples keyed around different sets and the issue of whether to treat Ebron and Bush like receivers or a traditional TE and RB. Jim Miller said if he had our weapons, he would make sure the defense was always wrong (with line checks).

I am really starting to understand the wisdom in taking Ebron. He adds to the play calling problems having Calvin already presented, on top of the additional play call problems Reggie presents. The faster the offense moves, the harder it will be on the defense, because they can't just relay the number of TEs, RBs and WRs in the game. They have to find a way to communicate WHO exactly those guys are.
Yeah, thing is Ebron brings a certain structure to the Lions offense in addition to an influx of talent.   He will be very tough to jam and he hits his top gear almost right off the mark making him a great quick outlet.  He can threaten the middle pretty easily vs. cover 2.  Going to be hard to run that vs. the Lions.  But it's also hard to man up vs. the Lions with a double on CJ and a sure-handed talent like Tate seeing endless single coverage and Bush or Bell out of the backfield.  Ebron can move to like 6 spots too.  Don't want to overbill a rookie, and there are sure to be growing pains, but I'm very excited to see the new O.

Last edited 6/15/2014 6:16 PM by redwing777

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Posted: 6/15/2014 5:55 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


It all boils down to stafford though. as cliche as it is

run that play a million times and it doesnt matter how good ebron and CJ (as much as he can make up for errant passes) are if stafford throws an errant pass and they know were passing it then its a pick or an incomplete.

the opposite of that is how you win games. they know youre passing the ball. you pass the ball and you still convert. they know youre running the all. you run the ball. you still convert.

exerting our will. but it really comes down to stafford and accuracy.
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Posted: 6/15/2014 6:07 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



DingDongLions1134 wrote: It all boils down to stafford though. as cliche as it is

run that play a million times and it doesnt matter how good ebron and CJ (as much as he can make up for errant passes) are if stafford throws an errant pass and they know were passing it then its a pick or an incomplete.

the opposite of that is how you win games. they know youre passing the ball. you pass the ball and you still convert. they know youre running the all. you run the ball. you still convert.

exerting our will. but it really comes down to stafford and accuracy.
The last time Stafford had weapons this good he threw 41 TDs and they made the postseason.  The weapons he has now are much better, so is the OL.  The new, more cerebral structure will be good for him and help him execute vs. better matchups so he doesn't have to ad lib after the snap as much.  He is being put in a position to succeed and I expect him too. noidea

Last edited 6/15/2014 6:19 PM by redwing777

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Posted: 6/15/2014 7:24 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


This is what I point to when people question him.  He didn't just forget how to play football.  He has had some growing to do, as well, but -- outside of an injured CJ he had crap at WR.  In 2011 he had an emerging player in Titus Young and a semi-prime Nate Burleson.  I think we'll get plenty of great play from the QB, he has done it before and I don't think he just forgot how to play the position.

Of course, injuries can derail everything in a heartbeat.
redwing777 wrote:
DingDongLions1134 wrote: It all boils down to stafford though. as cliche as it is

run that play a million times and it doesnt matter how good ebron and CJ (as much as he can make up for errant passes) are if stafford throws an errant pass and they know were passing it then its a pick or an incomplete.

the opposite of that is how you win games. they know youre passing the ball. you pass the ball and you still convert. they know youre running the all. you run the ball. you still convert.

exerting our will. but it really comes down to stafford and accuracy.
The last time Stafford had weapons this good he threw 41 TDs and they made the postseason.  The weapons he has now are much better, so is the OL.  The new, more cerebral structure will be good for him and help him execute vs. better matchups so he doesn't have to ad lib after the snap as much.  He is being put in a position to succeed and I expect him too. noidea



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Posted: 6/16/2014 12:37 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


MJackson,

You act like outside of CJ, Stafford was throwing to street free agents or something. Sure, he had Jeremy Ross and Kevin Ogletree that we picked up off the street this year, and Kris Durham who we picked up off the street last year...but other than that he had a stacked deck w/Burleson playing half the season. Where is my sarcasm emoticon.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 2:14 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


CJ will see A LOT more much needed rest this season having Ebron here.

 

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Posted: 6/16/2014 4:07 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


That will be critical in extending Calvin's career, not to mention keeping him healthy.
Me4LionsPresident wrote: CJ will see A LOT more much needed rest this season having Ebron here.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:28 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


I know Ebron is a confident and boisterous young man, but he needs to slow his roll a bit IMO. If it's his goal to get OROY or Pro Bowl as a rookie, then great but there is no need to put that out there. Learn the playbook, work your butt off to get on the field, gain the staff and Stafford's trust, by oh catching the ball more consistently and then maximize every opportunity you get during the season. If you do those things, THEN those INDIVIDUAL awards can come to you. For now, worry less about awards for YOURSELF and make yourself a value for your TEAM.

Let me guess.  You aren't here for the Alcohol or Tobacco...
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:30 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



3RDRGR wrote: I know Ebron is a confident and boisterous young man, but he needs to slow his roll a bit IMO. If it's his goal to get OROY or Pro Bowl as a rookie, then great but there is no need to put that out there. Learn the playbook, work your butt off to get on the field, gain the staff and Stafford's trust, by oh catching the ball more consistently and then maximize every opportunity you get during the season. If you do those things, THEN those INDIVIDUAL awards can come to you. For now, worry less about awards for YOURSELF and make yourself a value for your TEAM.
Sounds like it was more a case of the coaches setting those goals for him and he's happy to go after them....
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Posted: 6/16/2014 5:36 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



3RDRGR wrote: I know Ebron is a confident and boisterous young man, but he needs to slow his roll a bit IMO. If it's his goal to get OROY or Pro Bowl as a rookie, then great but there is no need to put that out there. Learn the playbook, work your butt off to get on the field, gain the staff and Stafford's trust, by oh catching the ball more consistently and then maximize every opportunity you get during the season. If you do those things, THEN those INDIVIDUAL awards can come to you. For now, worry less about awards for YOURSELF and make yourself a value for your TEAM.

I didn't realize that he put this out there publically until I got an email from the Bleecher Report today saying so. When I said this to him yesterday he must have thought that I was referencing an interview that he did. I was just saying it because I saw him, I knew it was him & I was making conversation since he was standing right next to me. However, I do see him catching 45 passes or so for 5 or 6 TDs.
"Oh that's great"
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Posted: 6/16/2014 6:05 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



BigWillieStyle wrote:
3RDRGR wrote: I know Ebron is a confident and boisterous young man, but he needs to slow his roll a bit IMO. If it's his goal to get OROY or Pro Bowl as a rookie, then great but there is no need to put that out there. Learn the playbook, work your butt off to get on the field, gain the staff and Stafford's trust, by oh catching the ball more consistently and then maximize every opportunity you get during the season. If you do those things, THEN those INDIVIDUAL awards can come to you. For now, worry less about awards for YOURSELF and make yourself a value for your TEAM.

I didn't realize that he put this out there publically until I got an email from the Bleecher Report today saying so. When I said this to him yesterday he must have thought that I was referencing an interview that he did. I was just saying it because I saw him, I knew it was him & I was making conversation since he was standing right next to me. However, I do see him catching 45 passes or so for 5 or 6 TDs.
I would be happy with those numbers, especially knowing he makes the other guys better by causing matchup problems above his catch production.  People are writing him off as a blocker and I think that's a mistake.  He may never be a great one, but I think he can make a contribution.  Downfield Ebron along with Tate, Pettigrew, and CJ, these guys can all block.  So when Bush or Bell make the first guy or two miss, look out.

Last edited 6/16/2014 6:09 PM by redwing777

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Posted: 6/16/2014 6:17 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


I don't see Ebron having enough impact on this team to even be in consideration for ROTY.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 6:39 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 





---------------------------------------------
--- scottallen222 wrote:

I don't see Ebron having enough impact on this team to even be in consideration for ROTY.

---------------------------------------------



Agreed.

As DingDongLions said ^^...it's all about Stafford and his effectiveness.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 7:13 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 


2013-14 NFL offensive rookie of the year Eddie Lacey had a fine season with 319 total touches and 284 runs with a 4.1 average and 1,178 rushing yards with 257 passing yards (1,435 total yards) and 11 TDs. Pretty good esp. due to Rodgers missing so many games.

In 2012 RGIII won the award and we all know the 'Skins made the Playoffs and had a pretty great second half of that season.

In 2011 Cam Newton won the award.

In 2014 it is hard to see a rookie QB winning the award. It is possible no rookie QBs even start early in 2014. And anything can happen.

I would be surprised in a rookei OL guy win the award and the top guy taken may not even start at OT (Robinson). I like Sammy Watkins but I am not sure his QB is gonna click that early with him and that may hurt. Mike Evans will be in the conversation possibility as a #2 WR with a decent veteran QB. If Jake Mathews is good he will be in teh conversation.

In New York it is possible OBD blows up as the #3 WR if he is on the field. Brandin Cools is positioned well to make a serious run as well. Lots of passes thrown in New Orleans. If Kelvin Benjamin has any real talent at all he is in a great position with Cam Newton.

I don't see any RB making an impact in the voting this year.

I can see a couple OL guys making a splash and a few WRs that will be in a great position to make a difference as well. And without and QBs or RBs in the conversation right now I think the field is WIDE open.

Can Ebron be in the conversation? Heck yes. But I think that is unlikely. But I think this MIGHT be a weak field of rookies making large impacts in 2014.

In 2011 (15 games played) AJ Green put up 1,057 yards with 7 TDs. With a rookie QB as well. That is awesome but Cam Newton was even better. I just don't see Sammy Watkins with that Bills QB having that kind of impact in 2014. I think if Ebron gets over 700 yards with 5+ TDs he MIGHT be in the consideration in 2014...but that would be WEAK compared to past winners. And that is the only way Ebron can win this award. NO WAY Ebron sniffs 1,000 yards or 7+ TDs. I just cannot see that with Calvin and Golden around even if Matt gets hot.

I he maybe finished top five in voting overall but I like a few others guys even more then Enron including Evans, OT Jake Mathews, B. Cooks, maybe even Lewan and then Ebron. Watkins could get hot though and he is not out of teh conversation. But games in Buffalo with an unproven QB might hurt his chances.
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Posted: 6/16/2014 7:14 PM

Re: Ebron OROTY? 



3RDRGR wrote: I know Ebron is a confident and boisterous young man, but he needs to slow his roll a bit IMO. If it's his goal to get OROY or Pro Bowl as a rookie, then great but there is no need to put that out there. Learn the playbook, work your butt off to get on the field, gain the staff and Stafford's trust, by oh catching the ball more consistently and then maximize every opportunity you get during the season. If you do those things, THEN those INDIVIDUAL awards can come to you. For now, worry less about awards for YOURSELF and make yourself a value for your TEAM.

I get what you are saying, but I would say the best thing any player can do for his team is to play well as an individual. That is what you have the most control over, and if everyone does that, THEN the team will go far.

I don't think he's a "Me first" guy from what little I have heard from him.
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