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RE: Humble Pie has been served

Posted: 01/17/2013 10:30 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


Not sure. Think it was 2008. I don't really have a dog in this fight quite yet. Wasn't comparing myself to Saban. Seems needy to comeover here for 4 weeks celebrating. Most fans seem to enjoy doing that on their own board. Assuming they have enough fans to support a board.
Would have no idea about an investigation. Not sure what there would be to investigate.
Doubt Butler would take much enjoyment out of being awarded a title if IW had to forfeit.
Shouldn't bother anybody anyway. Kind of like I never understood the concern about random drug test unless you got something to hide.
I would think IW fan would proudly say bring it on. But you never know. Stranger things have happened.
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Posted: 01/21/2013 5:30 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



oldtimehawk wrote: Not sure. Think it was 2008. I don't really have a dog in this fight quite yet. Wasn't comparing myself to Saban. Seems needy to comeover here for 4 weeks celebrating. Most fans seem to enjoy doing that on their own board. Assuming they have enough fans to support a board.
Would have no idea about an investigation. Not sure what there would be to investigate.
Doubt Butler would take much enjoyment out of being awarded a title if IW had to forfeit.
Shouldn't bother anybody anyway. Kind of like I never understood the concern about random drug test unless you got something to hide.
I would think IW fan would proudly say bring it on. But you never know. Stranger things have happened.

there shouldn't be any concern over a RANDOM drug-test, or a RANDOM program investigation (or whatever it was). I would assume the reason the IW poster was irritated is because whatever was investigated at IW wasn't random. Basically after Buco got beat up in the NC, there had to be a reason why.... IW cheated! only logical explanation they could come up with. If it was random, it wouldn't be an issue.

And the IW fans should be able to celebrate as long as they are champs, who knows if they'll ever win another. It's a big accomplishment, I mean Butler is the best juco football program EVER, and they haven't won a NC for 5 years.

Roll Tide!

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Posted: 01/22/2013 5:27 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



SouthHasRisen wrote:
oldtimehawk wrote: Not sure. Think it was 2008. I don't really have a dog in this fight quite yet. Wasn't comparing myself to Saban. Seems needy to comeover here for 4 weeks celebrating. Most fans seem to enjoy doing that on their own board. Assuming they have enough fans to support a board.
Would have no idea about an investigation. Not sure what there would be to investigate.
Doubt Butler would take much enjoyment out of being awarded a title if IW had to forfeit.
Shouldn't bother anybody anyway. Kind of like I never understood the concern about random drug test unless you got something to hide.
I would think IW fan would proudly say bring it on. But you never know. Stranger things have happened.

there shouldn't be any concern over a RANDOM drug-test, or a RANDOM program investigation (or whatever it was). I would assume the reason the IW poster was irritated is because whatever was investigated at IW wasn't random. Basically after Buco got beat up in the NC, there had to be a reason why.... IW cheated! only logical explanation they could come up with. If it was random, it wouldn't be an issue.

And the IW fans should be able to celebrate as long as they are champs, who knows if they'll ever win another. It's a big accomplishment, I mean Butler is the best juco football program EVER, and they haven't won a NC for 5 years.

Roll Tide!

Guess we will have to see if IW is like Auburn (one hit wonder) or Bama (somebody who seems capable of winning every year)
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Posted: 01/22/2013 5:54 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


You're right we will have to see. Anyone around the program understands that the program is on the scene and there to say. I'm not guaranteeing another national championship next year but I am guaranteeing contention year in and year out. The staff is pretty excited about the mid year transfers. If/when they can sign some quality Iowa kids the excitement will only grow! Should we just skip baseball season and get right to August?!
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Posted: 01/22/2013 3:33 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


My guess is IW is a one-hit wonder, the champ will come from either MS or TX next year. The only other reason Butler and Iowa Western have a chance is because nobody in their respective conferences challenges them.

It was a down year in Texas, and each contender from MS shat the bed, but trust me the South will rise again.

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Posted: 01/22/2013 3:45 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



Reivers79 wrote: You're right we will have to see. Anyone around the program understands that the program is on the scene and there to say. I'm not guaranteeing another national championship next year but I am guaranteeing contention year in and year out. The staff is pretty excited about the mid year transfers. If/when they can sign some quality Iowa kids the excitement will only grow! Should we just skip baseball season and get right to August?!

Reivers79 (I like the name btw), you need to find a new message board. I come on here to get these crazy butler fans fired up, which is VERY easy. Nobody cares about "quality Iowa kids" and when you say "anyone around the program" you mean "my son was a BENCH-Warmer on a national championship team." This is a Jayhawk message board, nobody cares about the growing excitement of the IW program!

Highland has excitement about their program every year, until the games are actually played, and every team is going to get some supposed big time transfers, which 1 out of 10 will pan out.

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Posted: 01/22/2013 6:36 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



Reivers79 wrote:
 Should we just skip baseball season and get right to August?!

Yes.  I hate the offseason.


SouthHasRisen wrote:

My guess is IW is a one-hit wonder, the champ will come from either MS or TX next year. The only other reason Butler and Iowa Western have a chance is because nobody in their respective conferences challenges them.

It was a down year in Texas, and each contender from MS shat the bed, but trust me the South will rise again.


I don't think they are a one-hit-wonder.  They have the money and dedication to the program that is necessary to win.  What is it, 88 full-ride scholarships and a higher out-of state limit than KS.  My guess is they're going to be competitive for the next few years.


Has anyone heard anything about the Jayhawk and Iowa conferences merging?  
Just hearing some chirps about this near the end of the season and surprised nothing has made it here yet.
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Posted: 01/23/2013 7:54 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


The max is 85, and I doubt they offer 85 FULL scholarships. Give us the inside scoop Reiver79
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Posted: 01/23/2013 9:09 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


Let me guess SHS, you're a crusty 75 yr old man with no college football experience and a confederate flag tattooed on your shoulder. I have the same right posting on this board as you do. Neither of us have much affiliation with the jayhawk. By the way, who is your team anyway. Not sure it has ever came out or do you just jump on any team in the souths bandwagon?

85 fulls, not a chance in hell. They struggle to compete with jayhawk books and tuition offers unless the kid has a lot of govt help. I'll ask on the number next time I'm around.

I have heard of cross over games in the near future, but I don't think the leagues will consolidate.

What's the status on jay hawk bumping their out of state limit? Butler better be careful what they wish for, it will make the rest of the league more competitive. They may not want that, plus there won't be a built in excuse when they do lose bowl games.
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Posted: 01/23/2013 9:14 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



SouthHasRisen wrote:

My guess is IW is a one-hit wonder, the champ will come from either MS or TX next year. The only other reason Butler and Iowa Western have a chance is because nobody in their respective conferences challenges them.

It was a down year in Texas, and each contender from MS shat the bed, but trust me the South will rise again.

why would you care about Miss?
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Posted: 01/23/2013 4:17 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



Reivers79 wrote: 
I have heard of cross over games in the near future, but I don't think the leagues will consolidate.

Talks were already pretty far along with school admin being involved as of the national title game from what I heard.
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Posted: 01/23/2013 8:20 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



Reivers79 wrote: 
85 fulls, not a chance in hell. They struggle to compete with jayhawk books and tuition offers unless the kid has a lot of govt help. I'll ask on the number next time I'm around. 

IW is probably one of the best funded juco programs in the nation.  Boosters make it happen.  It's laughable that you think they struggle to compete with Butler's partial scholarships.  They have money.  Money.  Money.  Money.  And the crazy thing is, this football program is not even as old as the iPhone.  You guys beat Butler.  Congrats (seriously, man) - their biggest rival hasn't done that since the Macarena was a popular dance.

Really it is one of the more laughable qualities of NJCAA football that conferences regulate scholarships instead of the institution - so you have the MN schools with no assistance, Kansas with partial, Iowa with full... not sure what the WSFL, TX, and MS rules are.  To disagree that this creates a competitive advantage is honestly ridiculous.  Would I ever deny that Butler having schollies makes it easier for them to win than MN?  Hell no.  It's why those schools get dumptrucked.  So can the same not be implied from full ride to partial ride limits? (this is not being used as an excuse why Butler lost but looking at the greater picture - competitive equality among the major juco football conferences).  Imagine the NCAA level if the Big10 wasn't allowed to offer scholarships, the Big12 was allowed partial, and the Pac12 full ride... and roster limits were all different.  People would go bananas.  Just saying that things like this raise questions isn't making excuses for IW or Butler losing to them... it's a simple dialogue in reality.  Simply screaming BUTLER SUCKS CRYBABIES WOOOOOO GO REIVERS! SUCK IT GRIZZLIES! and refusing to discuss things like adults is the main reason this forum is becoming a graveyard where many great members used to post and now it's down to a few solid reps and many trolls.

You want some stats?  Here are hard numbers from 2011 (so they are probably pretty close to 2012).  Keep in mind, the enrollments of the two colleges is virutally identical...  You tell me who has more $:
  • $1.2 million dollars in scholarships given to students at IWCCC.  Butler gives about 40% less than that.
  • Their Athletic Department operating expense is over double what Butler's was last year:  $132,964 to Butler's $53,911
  • Twelve coaches listed on football payroll compared to Butler's six
  • IW had close to 350 total athletes to Butler's  280.
  • All in all, the IW athletic department spends about $2.5 mil per year, 20% more than Butler's.

Now, again - no excuses being made about the game - so don't twist what this post is about - but don't come on here and tell us that IW struggles to keep up with what Butler spends on football and scholarships... it's just not true.  

These numbers are not that hard to find since these are publicly funded colleges.  I don't make things up.

Last edited 01/23/2013 9:40 PM by Irish2009

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Posted: 01/24/2013 4:45 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


I like all the stats, but IW also has more athletic programs to fund (look at both schools athletic websites). I would guess that IW is similar to Butler as far as $ (if anything Butler has more).

In response to Reivers79 I am not a crusty old man, although I am wise beyond my years. I have zero tattoos, I played and coached college football, my team is from the South, and it is on the RISE!

Last edited 01/24/2013 4:48 AM by SouthHasRisen

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Posted: 01/24/2013 7:59 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



SouthHasRisen wrote:

I like all the stats, but IW also has more athletic programs to fund (look at both schools athletic websites). I would guess that IW is similar to Butler as far as $ (if anything Butler has more).

Please, please, please... this is so far from reality.  Butler does not have money.  They've won for years in spite of that.

SHR, the numbers dispute the idea that you put out that they simply spend more because they have more to fund and also I think that's an argument for proving they are extremely well funded... Butler doesn't have more athletes and sports than they currently do not because they wouldn't like to, but because there isn't the money.

IW spends about $1,200 in operating expenses per football player.
Butler spends only $500 in operating expenses per football player.
*** BTW Kansas fans, even freaking Dodge spends $800 per athlete and Hutch and CV both spend around $1,000***

If IW is spending that kind of money just on operating expenses of the program you can be danged sure that they're spending even more money to ensure that they are spending it on the right type of athlete.  Hence, they are doubling down on scholarships.  Lots of them.  Don't try to fleece it any way, Reivers.

Butler DOES NOT HAVE MORE MONEY... why can't people see that?  The stadium that was just built was almost completely donor funded.  Their facilities until the last 5 years haven't even been as nice as Highland's.  They played at a high school stadium that was built before WW2 (and looked like it) until their new digs.

It's the same thing for baseball...
IW spends $1,800 per athlete
Butler spends only $800 per athlete

Women's basketball...
IW $3,000 per athlete
Butler $1,100 per athlete

Track...
IW, $2,000
Butler, $1,300

Iowa Western has money.  Lots of it.

Last edited 01/24/2013 8:03 AM by Irish2009

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Posted: 01/24/2013 11:17 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


Now I understand why Butler hasn't won a NC since 08... No $$$

I guess they have actually been overachievers.

I dont understand what you mean by operating expense, please explain.

Also Butler gets 85 players at books & tuition, unless I'm wrong. What does IW offer per kid, whats the cost of tuition / room & board at IW compared to Butler.. etc

IW might have more money, but whats the total cost of each school? If IW is $4,000 more per year than they should have more $$$ if the cost is the same than I guess athletics is important to them, and they will be good for a while.

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Posted: 01/24/2013 11:21 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


So now you are chief budget analyst at both these programs? Where exactly did you pull these numbers from? Under your couch cushion?
Typical butler guy, knows it all.

Let me put this in perspective for you fellas. I know the Waters family pretty well. Jake (the qb the past two seasons) who is headed to KState came in on a scholarship extremely close to what you refer to as IW "operating budget per athlete." This past season he had loans taken out and was not a full scholarship... If anyone on that team would have been on a full it would have been the hometown hero.

Don't pretend to know what you are talking about from out there in Kansas. Stick to what you know. Also are you trying to dispute the fact that books and tuition is your scholarship offer?
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Posted: 01/24/2013 11:35 AM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


I guess the NJCAA POY wasn't on a full-ride, and IWCC cost more

Butler:

Room & Board $2,675.00 per semester

Tuition & fees $89 per credit (24 credits $2,136)


IWCC

Room & Board $2,880.00 per semester

Tuition & fees $142 per credit (24 credits $3,408)

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Posted: 01/24/2013 1:10 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



Reivers79 wrote: 
Where exactly did you pull these numbers from? Under your couch cushion?

They are public institutions.  Do your own research.  I don't make numbers up for the sake of winning an internet argument.


Reivers79 wrote: 
Typical butler guy, knows it all. 
Typical iowa guy - only thing he knows how to do is deflect.


Reivers79 wrote: 
Let me put this in perspective for you fellas. I know the Waters family pretty well...
Oh, well in that case... lol.  Did you really just say that?  


Reivers79 wrote: 
Don't pretend to know what you are talking about from out there in Kansas. Stick to what you know. Also are you trying to dispute the fact that books and tuition is your scholarship offer?

I don't pretend anything.  I've presented nothing but facts and numbers.  

You have zero clue where or who I am.  For all you know I could be from West Des Moines.

Where am I disputing the facts of what Butler offers?  Stop creating a false argument or just say that I don't know what I'm talking about.
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Posted: 01/24/2013 1:16 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 



SouthHasRisen wrote:

Now I understand why Butler hasn't won a NC since 08... No $$$

I guess they have actually been overachievers.

I dont understand what you mean by operating expense, please explain.

Also Butler gets 85 players at books & tuition, unless I'm wrong. 

Yeah, they are tremendous overachievers.  Great kids.  Great coaches.  Great community.  Since '08, no national title - if that's the measuring stick for Butler then the bar has been set high.  

Operating expenses = monies spent on football excluding scholarships.  Coaches salaries, travel costs, equipment, etc.

Butler does get 85 books/tuition.
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Posted: 01/24/2013 2:45 PM

RE: Humble Pie has been served 


Provide where you claim to have found all these numbers and maybe someone will believe you.
And let me get this straight... You happen to know IW travel costs, equipment expenditures, etc??? I find it hard to believe. I understand coaching salaries are public knowledge, but why don't you lay out how you came to this operating expenditures figure. How many athletes are you dividing this total cost by?

Sorry I don't have half my day to spend "analyzing" college's expenditures.
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