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KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread

Posted: 11/04/2012 11:11 AM

KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Semifinal games about to kickoff.  

Coach Morrell just said on his pregame radio interview that Dreamius Smith is good to go.  We'll see in just a few minutes.
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Posted: 11/04/2012 2:19 PM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


The Butler game hasn't been competitive for a while.

The Hutch/CV game seemed to be getting interesting with about 8 minutes left as CV scored 21 unanswered points to cut it to a 10 point deficit. Held Hutch and forced them to punt with plenty of time on the clock... and go full on stupid and have 12 men on the field for the punt return. First down Hutch, and the ensuing drive will probably eat enough clock off to wrap this one up.
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Posted: 11/05/2012 6:32 AM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


The Hutch/CV game sounded interesting.  I would be interested to hear about that from someone who attended the game.

Butler was a little sluggish and off its game most of the day, but still won by 41 points.  Dreamius played, but he was clearly not 100%.  He had 6 rushes for 8 yards - no explosiveness whatsoever, and he fumbled twice.  I really don't understand why Morrell even bothered to put him in.  On his one big play (he was the ladder on a hook and ladder play, which went for a touchdown), he was clearly favoring one leg, and he was not running anywhere near full speed. 

Derrick Thomas had a good game, but the offense just isn't quite the same without Smith. 

The defense allowed a bunch of yards, but not too many points.  GC does have a very, very good offense.  Nick Marshall doesn't blow you away with his passing skills, but the guy is athletic and really hard to bring down.  He has just enough passing ability to keep you honest.  Garden has a good group of WRs, too, and that running back (#24) is lightning fast.  Butler's D does a really good job of keeping the plays in front of them and forcing teams to beat them by grinding out long drives.  That allows an opening for a good team to pile up some yards, but it's a hard way to put a lot of points on the board.  I'm sure GC is used to scoring on big plays, and Butler does a really good job of preventing that.

One more to go!
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Posted: 11/05/2012 12:47 PM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Butler I was at the game and this is my opinion:

The game was closer than the 52-28 score.
To start off Coffeyville and Hutch both had their mistakes. It just seemed that Coffevyille mistakes happened at crucial times. Drive killers on offense and drive extenders on defense. Hutch's first two scores only happened because of Coffeyville mistakes. The first was a touchdown because Coffeyville punt returner steps inside his own 10 yard line to go after the ball, then decides to not touch it. This was about the 2 or three yard line. The ball is bouncing and he decides to change his mind and not touch it. Throws his hands in the air and it was called that it bounced off his chest. Hutch recovers the ball on the Coffeyville 1 yard line.....7Pts Hutch

Second huge mistake:
Coffeyville is punting a couple possessions later the punter has a running soccer style kick. He has kicked this way all year. He is a baseball player that was used last year as a kicker also. His kicks are not very long but they usually bounce and skip in our favor and the net yardage is decent due to no return yardage. Well he gets the snap on Coffevyilles own 30 yard line and takes a couple steps and fumbles it. Hutch first and 10 on Coffevyilles 30 yard line. Hutch was unable to advance the ball much but did get a field goal........ Hutch 3 pts

Hutch was given 10 pts directly by 2 Coffeyville mistakes.

Coffeyille and Hutch each had a touchdown drive also that made the score Hutch 17 Coffeyville 7 at the half.

Hutch scored 3 unanswered touch downs to take a 38 to 7 lead end of the 3rd. We were about to leave. Then in the 4th Coffeyville scored 21 unanswered points to make it a 10 point game 38-28 with about 10 min left. Coffevyille stopped Hutch again with the defense and had Hutch Punting 4 and 2 from about their own 30. Coffevyille gets called for a illegal substitution and its a 5 yard penalty. 1st and 10 Hutch. Hutch completes and long pass and scores. Hutch 45-28 with about 5 minutes left. Coffeyville throws a pic that is returned for a TD, Hutch 52 Coffeyville 28. Coffeyville drives down the field but is unable to score gain. Coffeyville outgained Hutch and the teams both had momentum at times in the game. Coffeyville had 4 turnovers Hutch had 0. The Coffeyville team does not have the talent to overcome a 4 turnover margin. Hutch is not the much better than Coffevyille. Look at the last 2 games Butler played Coffevyille beat them by 32 at Butler. Butler beat Hutch by 33 at Hutch. Coffevyille could have won this game if they played mistake free football but they did not. Hutch has more talent than Coffevyille. Coffeyville was missing #27 Martrell Spaight. He is a linebacker from Arkansas. Highley recuited. Our best defensive player. Dont know why he wasn't out there. The guy #88 from Hutch was a beast until he got hurt. It looked like it was his knees and it looked bad. I hope he will be ok. This is my take on the game.

I am now pulling for Butler at this point. If the ravens arent playing I want our conference to show well. They should have the chance to win out and play IW. I look forward to that, Go Grizzlies! Wow I cant belive I said that. lol. I have several times watched our conference winners play in bowl games even though I am a raven. Watched Cam play Ft Scott a few years back and have watched Butler in several bowl games that were close enough to drive to.

Last edited 11/05/2012 12:58 PM by 68camaro

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Posted: 11/05/2012 1:34 PM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


THat's very big of you to pull for Butler, Camaro.  I often like to take a shower after rooting for a rival -- to get the dirty feeling off, you know.  Maybe you can try that.

I read one article about the game, and it seemed that, in addition to the turnovers, Hutch scored most/many of its points on big plays.  Not sure what that means in terms of scheme and talent, but I'm sure the coaching staff will be working on it for next year.

Another poster mentioned Toby Johnson's injury -- probably a torn MCL and ACL.  That's unfortunate for him. 

Did Terrell Lane play?  It looked like he came out of the Butler game because of a concussion.  Teams are rightly very cautious about head injuries, so I wasn't sure if they would put him back in this week, or not.  Of course, Hutch has several good RBs and a good OL, so I'm not sure that missing Lane is a huge hit to Hutch's ability to put points on the board.
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Posted: 11/05/2012 2:59 PM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Terrell did play. 19 carries for 51 yards 2 catches for 16 yards. Not much impact.
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Posted: 11/06/2012 7:49 AM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Camaro did a pretty good job of describing how the game went.  However, he could have added that Ville really helped the Dragons out with dropped passes.  Their tall receiver Reed dropped at least 4 and maybe more.  And he wasn't the only one.  Derby threw the ball better but still left some open completions on the table with off throws.   There was also another 7 point turnover when Ville fumbled at the Hutch 1 just before the half (Butler guys, think of the Lane fumble by Hutch just before the half).  That was a real spirit killer for Ville.

Oh, and the 21 point rally needs some explanation.  The game was over with Hutch leading 38-7 in the fourth.  Hutch started playing soft and Ville scored with about 11:30 to go to make it 38-14.  Then they lined up to kick off and I turned to the person next to me and said they were obviously going for an onside kick so why was Hutch playing back?  Dumb.  The kick was a 13 yard pooch and the Hutch front 5 (only 5, not a hands team) actually backed up and let Ville just catch it.  Ville immediately scored against the D that was not only crippled but looked like they thought the game was over already.  They lined up again for the next kick and Hutch still had only 5 up.  Amazing.    This time the kick was a straight on 12 yard dribbler and the Hutch guys actually backed up again as if they were confused about which 5 yard line was the first touch line.  Ville just fell on it without much contest.  It was just an incredibly poor job of coaching and player awareness.  Ville immediately scored again.  All that took place from about 11:30 to 7:30 or so.  It was then that Viile forced at Hutch punt but had an illegal substition.  That should be looked at as another turnover.  Hutch then scored twice to make the final look worse.  So the game was both not as close as it appeared and closer that it appeared. 
 
I thought Hutch looked flat, and Coffeyville a little too.  Both teams moved the ball steadily, more than on big plays.  Ville just stalled out more and was killed by the turnovers.

Lane played for Hutch but never seemed like his former self.  Maybe it was the Ville D but Lane seemed like he was in a trance and couldn't run hard or make crisp cuts.  He was replaced by Mooney (who was hurt and didn't play against Butler)  I wonder about Lane.  Against Butler he had 116 yards rushing in the first half and averaged 7.25 per carry without padding that with any run longer than 21.  Against Ville he looked like maybe he shouldn't have been playing or was just cautious. 

Hutch has absolutely no chance against Butler in the rematch.  With the loss of 88 they have only 98 left on the D line, having lost their out of state D-end earlier in the year.  The D line is now so undersized and weak that Butler could run the ball right up the gut and clobber Hutch without ever throwing the ball.  If every woulda shoulda goes the way of Hutch the score will just be lopsided like last time.  Without getting unusual breaks the next game will be a blowout of about 60 or more.  Last time against Butler Hutch tried to play a 3-4 with a small guy at nose and the two big tackles spread.  That did stop the runs up the middle but the lb's couldn't stop the power off the edge.  Next time Butler will not have to run off the corner or throw.  With 88 out Ville ran up the gut more on Hutch than Butler or any team has.  The offensive choices for the Grizzlies next time will be so varied they won't have to try any halfback passes or reverse passes, or even the wildcat that hurt Hutch so much the first time.  They can keep all that stuff in the bag and still win big.  Blue could take the week off and Cosh could dislocate his shoulder before the game and it wouldn't matter.  I hate to say all this and wish it weren't so.  If Butler wants to pad their poll numbers the championship game will be their chance.
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Posted: 11/06/2012 8:09 AM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


That's a pretty depressing assessment, Jhc. 

Of course, I don't want Hutch to beat Butler, but I do want Hutch to represent the Jayhawk well in its bowl game.  Hopefully, the team will bounce back and be fine. 

I know what you mean about Lane.  That's how Smith was this week for Butler -- totally ineffective.  He was clearly favoring the injured leg, and he had no breakaway speed.  It will be interesting to see what Troy does with him this week.  While it would be nice for him to rest the hamstring, you also don't want him to be rusty for the bowl game.  Tough call.

Is there any thought about who will host FS's bowl game in Pittsburg?  Butler will, presumably, play in the Graphics Edge Bowl, Hutch will host its own.  I think Coffeyville qualifies for a bowl with 6 wins, right?  Will they host it?  GC also has 6 wins, so I suppose they could host it, too, but GC likely wouldn't travel as well from far western KS.
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Posted: 11/07/2012 10:14 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


It would just about have to be Coffeyville unless there's a way they could get NEO. I can't see Garden City fans traveling that far for a 6-win team.
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Posted: 11/08/2012 7:36 AM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


NEO is an interesting possibility that I hadn't considered.  They're certainly a better team, and they might bring more fans (not sure what NEO's following is like).  NEO is certainly a better team, and is located relatively close to Pittsburg, KS. 

One would think that NEO would host one of the two Texas bowls, but I'm not sure what the tie-ins are, and either bowl would likely be a substantially longer drive for NEO and its fans.

Speaking of Hutch and it's chances against Butler, here is an article from Hutch News today:

http://www.hutchnews.com/Jucod...07-hcc-football

I understand that this is the hometown newspaper, but the homerism of Hutch News never ceases to amaze me.  Take this gem, for example:

"Of course, Butler's dominance over Hutchinson - the Blue Dragons have not beaten Butler since 1997 - is more than simply turnovers. Inopportune penalties, long kickoff returns and missed tackles all add up when playing the Grizzlies.

'We played good; we've just got to eliminate mistakes,' defensive lineman Ben Bradley said. 'We know we can fix it for when we play Butler again. We've got to be perfect in practice this week.'"

Um, really?  The drought is going on 15 years now, and it's just mental mistakes that are keeping Hutch from picking up a single win in its last 20 or so tries?  Wow.  Not once does this article mention or suggest that Butler is simply a better football team/program.  No, it's just those pesky mistakes.  If only Hutch could correct the mistakes, they'd win. 

Oh, and Ben . . . No, you didn't play well.  Giving up 40 points is not playing well.  Cleaning up mistakes won't solve the problem.  You have to perform better.  Period. 

Last edited 11/08/2012 7:42 AM by Butler79

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Posted: 11/08/2012 6:15 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


I'd think the Texas bowls would be okay with letting NEO go to Pittsburg unless there wasn't a better Texas team to put in NEO's place. I don't see a Texas bowl getting excited about NEO versus a team from a state even farther away. I don't think NEO will care which bowl it goes to.

Just looked at the NJCAA bowl schedule. Looks like Iowa has moved its bowl game to Dec. 2 so that it's the same weekend as the others. I hadn't realized that.

Last edited 11/08/2012 6:15 PM by CaptainKansas

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Posted: 11/08/2012 7:31 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


FWIW, NEO has played the home team at Coffeyville's Dalton Defender's bowl in 2005 when they beat Miss GC.   So, there's precedent in NEO filling a role like that.

That year CV traveled to GA to play in the former Sea Island bowl against GA Mil.
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Posted: 11/09/2012 3:04 PM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Loooong time lurker and now I feel is the time I join in. First of all, just wanted to say hi to everyone. Yes, I am indeed the real Brad Hallier, the HCC beat writer for The Hutchinson News and I'm looking forward to contributing to these conversations.

OK ... now it's time to address Butler79. Calling me a homer. Seriously? If you can point out to where my pom-poms are for HCC, please do so. If you're going to call me a homer, bring out specific examples. The Hutchinson News pays my bills, not Hutchinson Community College. I gain absolutely nothing from Hutchinson winning, and I lose absolutely nothing from Hutchinson losing.

I never wrote it was just mental mistakes that have led to every loss since 1997. Never. Read it again. "... more than turnovers. Inopportune penalties, long kickoff returns and missed tackles all add up when playing Grizzlies."

Those, Butler79, are a few among many reasons Hutchinson does not beat Butler. I can't control what any player said. Ben Bradley never said "mental mistakes." He said, "mistakes." And I think even a savvy football person like yourself can agree a team that has a minus-four margin in turnovers is not likely to win. Those are mistakes. When you clean up mistakes, you play better football. Butler rarely makes mistakes. That's a big reason they win and win big often. I can promise you that on Sunday, if Hutchinson wins the turnover battle by four and Butler sends a couple snaps over Billy Cosh's head, and the punter shanks a couple out of bounds, they're going to have a hard time winning. Mistakes = bad performances. Mistake-free = good performance.

And I don't think I need to openly write that Butler is a better team/program. I think simply pointing out that Butler has won every game against Hutch since 1997 says enough. I have written a TON about Troy Morrell through the years. I have written about his dad even. I have the utmost respect for Troy and the beast he has built. I know you're trying to find something, anything, to provide material for the Grizzlies, but it isn't there.

Last edited 11/09/2012 3:08 PM by BradHallier

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Posted: 11/10/2012 11:43 AM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


At this time of the year, bulletin board material is worthless. But that brings up another question, which team has more to play for Sunday? Butler for a shot at the NJCAA title or Hutch to knock them out?
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Posted: 11/10/2012 12:21 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 



poppabear wrote:  Butler for a shot at the NJCAA title or Hutch to knock them out?
Butler.  Beating a good team twice in one year is never an easy thing, especially with something like a shot at the title on the line.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 7:53 AM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 



BradHallier wrote: Loooong time lurker and now I feel is the time I join in. First of all, just wanted to say hi to everyone. Yes, I am indeed the real Brad Hallier, the HCC beat writer for The Hutchinson News and I'm looking forward to contributing to these conversations.

OK ... now it's time to address Butler79. Calling me a homer. Seriously? If you can point out to where my pom-poms are for HCC, please do so. If you're going to call me a homer, bring out specific examples. The Hutchinson News pays my bills, not Hutchinson Community College. I gain absolutely nothing from Hutchinson winning, and I lose absolutely nothing from Hutchinson losing.

I never wrote it was just mental mistakes that have led to every loss since 1997. Never. Read it again. "... more than turnovers. Inopportune penalties, long kickoff returns and missed tackles all add up when playing Grizzlies."

Those, Butler79, are a few among many reasons Hutchinson does not beat Butler. I can't control what any player said. Ben Bradley never said "mental mistakes." He said, "mistakes." And I think even a savvy football person like yourself can agree a team that has a minus-four margin in turnovers is not likely to win. Those are mistakes. When you clean up mistakes, you play better football. Butler rarely makes mistakes. That's a big reason they win and win big often. I can promise you that on Sunday, if Hutchinson wins the turnover battle by four and Butler sends a couple snaps over Billy Cosh's head, and the punter shanks a couple out of bounds, they're going to have a hard time winning. Mistakes = bad performances. Mistake-free = good performance.

And I don't think I need to openly write that Butler is a better team/program. I think simply pointing out that Butler has won every game against Hutch since 1997 says enough. I have written a TON about Troy Morrell through the years. I have written about his dad even. I have the utmost respect for Troy and the beast he has built. I know you're trying to find something, anything, to provide material for the Grizzlies, but it isn't there.
Wow, Brad, testy much? 

I didn't call you a homer, I said that Hutch News (meaning the articles printed therein) are homeristic.  I don't know or care if you are an actual homer.  Although, I can't imagine how or why it would matter if HCC employs you or if you gain anything from Hutch's wins.  Lots of people who are not employed by teams and gain nothing from their wins are homers. 

You never said that it was "mental mistakes" as those were my words -- my characterization of what you said.  I provided the quote in my comment, so mincing words about whether I properly characterized your list of problems as "mental mistakes" or not is kind of silly, don't you think?  Anyone who read my post can decide for himself whether your list constitutes mental mistakes, correctable mistakes, or whatever.  The fact of the matter is that you listed four reasons for Hutch losing 20ish straight games to Butler -- those were:
turnovers, inopportune penalties, long kickoff returns, and missed tackles.  Period.  By implication, you believe (or were at least intending to convey to you readers) those were the most important of the reasons.  Then, you followed up your list with the "mistake" quote from Ben, claiming that the team played [sic] good, but that they made too many mistakes.  YOU chose that quote, and you chose to put it after your list of excuses.  That would indicate to indicate to a reader that you were classifying your list of 4 excuses as mistakes. Of course, your whole claim that "mistakes" was someone else's characterization rings hollow, considering your more recent article, wherein you state that "Hutchinson's mistakes are magnified against Butler, so let's make this simple - a positive turnover ratio, zero at the worst, 50 yards or less in penalties and a non-offensive touchdown."  "Mistakes," in your own words, are the problem for Hutch, and limiting them is the secret to beating Butler.


That being said, the substantive problem with your article is reverse causation.  I mean, if I played LeBron James 20 times at one-on-one basketball, I would lose 20 times.  If I then told you that I lost because I had too many turnovers and missed shots, would that not seem homeristic to you?  I mean, if I hadn't turned the ball over and I had shot better, I might have won, right?  Of course, that's a ridiculous comment because Lebron is just so much better than me that I will never be able to cut down my "mistakes" enough to beat him.  He's just too good.  The causation is the other way around.  I have mistakes, turnovers, low shooting percentages, etc. because I'm just not talented and skilled enough to play with LeBron James.

THAT's what's wrong with your article.  Hutch just isn't good enough to play with Butler.  That's been proven 20 times in a row now.   

In any case, your article is fine for its purpose.  It was written for a hometown audience with a superficial knowledge of the games and the programs.  This board, on the other hand, is a board where we discuss the intricacies of the games with people who intimately know and understand the programs, the history, etc.  Obviously, the discussion is different because of that.  That was the nature of my comment. 

Sheesh.

Last edited 11/12/2012 8:43 AM by Butler79

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Posted: 11/12/2012 8:46 AM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Testy??? No. Just standing up for what I wrote and contributing to the discussion.

In order to beat Butler, teams have to play near-perfect football. It would take a 20-inch story to put down all the mistakes teams cannot make against Butler. The ones are listed were the obvious ones Hutchinson has been known to make when playing Butler. Those aren't "my" excuses. I don't play the game.

You're comparison of playing LeBron James 1 v 1 to Hutch-Butler is just a smidgen apples to oranges. You could play LeBron James 1 v 1 100 times and you would lose every time. Every time. If this year's Hutch and Butler team played 100 times, Butler would not likely win all 100. As a matter of fact, look at yesterday's game. Hutchinson was right there. You would never be "right there" against LeBron James. You have zero percent chance to beat LeBron James. Hutchinson's chances of beating Butler, while not high, are much higher than zero.

You also say Hutchinson is not good enough to play with Butler. That was proven wrong yesterday. Hutchinson can play with Butler.

2003: 36-34 Butler
2004: 34-13 Butler, but it was a 13-13 game with less than 7 minutes left.
2007: 34-26 Butler. Hutchinson's last-second pass was intercepted in the end zone.
2008: 29-14 in championship game. Hutch led 14-10 in fourth quarter, and the game turned on an onside kick that even Troy Morrell admitted wasn't supposed to be an onside kick. But great teams make their own luck, without a doubt.
2009: 13-10 Butler, winning on a last-second field goal
2012: 26-16 Butler. Butler held to fewest yards of the season, game was tied in third quarter.

Hutchinson is good enough to play with Butler. But they can't beat Butler.

I hope this post is good enough to be discussed with other people who know intimately and understand the programs and history.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 10:30 AM

RE: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 



BradHallier wrote: Testy??? No. Just standing up for what I wrote and contributing to the discussion.

In order to beat Butler, teams have to play near-perfect football. It would take a 20-inch story to put down all the mistakes teams cannot make against Butler. The ones are listed were the obvious ones Hutchinson has been known to make when playing Butler. Those aren't "my" excuses. I don't play the game.

You're comparison of playing LeBron James 1 v 1 to Hutch-Butler is just a smidgen apples to oranges. You could play LeBron James 1 v 1 100 times and you would lose every time. Every time. If this year's Hutch and Butler team played 100 times, Butler would not likely win all 100. As a matter of fact, look at yesterday's game. Hutchinson was right there. You would never be "right there" against LeBron James. You have zero percent chance to beat LeBron James. Hutchinson's chances of beating Butler, while not high, are much higher than zero.

You also say Hutchinson is not good enough to play with Butler. That was proven wrong yesterday. Hutchinson can play with Butler.

2003: 36-34 Butler
2004: 34-13 Butler, but it was a 13-13 game with less than 7 minutes left.
2007: 34-26 Butler. Hutchinson's last-second pass was intercepted in the end zone.
2008: 29-14 in championship game. Hutch led 14-10 in fourth quarter, and the game turned on an onside kick that even Troy Morrell admitted wasn't supposed to be an onside kick. But great teams make their own luck, without a doubt.
2009: 13-10 Butler, winning on a last-second field goal
2012: 26-16 Butler. Butler held to fewest yards of the season, game was tied in third quarter.

Hutchinson is good enough to play with Butler. But they can't beat Butler.

I hope this post is good enough to be discussed with other people who know intimately and understand the programs and history.

Truly, Brad, I don't even know why you think this is some kind of argument.  I was just commenting on your article and what I perceived as the homer-attitude reflected therein.  If you disagree, fine.  I've been wrong before, so I won't take offense (although I'm not admitting to being wrong).  The article says what it says, and everyone here can read it to determine what message it conveys.  I really just wanted to spark a discussion about whether Hutch fans really think that these mistakes are really correctable, as you appear to suggest, or whether Butler is the cause of the mistakes.

Of course, the LeBron James hypo was exaggerated, but it was simply made to show that correlation is not causation.  I believe Hutch's problems are caused by Butler, not just bad luck or mistakes internal to Hutch players.  It's absolutely true that Hutch (at least some years) is capable of beating Butler if it plays its best mistake-free game and Butler makes a lot of mistakes.  The problem is that Butler causes most of Hutch's mistakes, so that's simply not likely to happen.  That's why we're at 20 consecutive games and counting.  That's why Butler wins those could-have-gone-either-way games.  I don't think it's luck or an accident.  If you want an alternate point of view, you should broach the subject with Jeff Leiker -- I'm sure he'd love to discuss it with you. biggrin

Anyway, I get that you're writing for an audience, and I didn't intend to criticize that.  I'm actually quite impressed with how much coverage HCC gets from the local newspaper.  The El Dorado newspaper is worthless, and the Eagle apparently has better things to cover most days. 

Anyway, I have seen your other posts, and I, for one, appreciate the insight.  I'm sure you have good access to information that we don't always have, and the additional point of view is appreciated.

Welcome to the board.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:06 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 


Brad,  don't respond to to 79.  Some of the guys on this site live for that.

79,  you were wrong.  You called Brad a homer for his article and there was absolutely nothing to that claim.  The article was complimentary to Butler and pointed out they had beaten Hutch 20 straight times.  You were seeing something that wasn't there.
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Posted: 11/12/2012 12:54 PM

Re: KJCCC 2012 Playoffs Thread 



jhcfan wrote: Brad,  don't respond to to 79.  Some of the guys on this site live for that.

79,  you were wrong.  You called Brad a homer for his article and there was absolutely nothing to that claim.  The article was complimentary to Butler and pointed out they had beaten Hutch 20 straight times.  You were seeing something that wasn't there.
I said what I thought and explained why. You're free to disagree, and I won't insult you for it.

Maybe next time you'll afford me the same consideration?
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