Free Trial Ad
Why Subscribe?
  • Player/Prospect News
  • Exclusive Insider Info
  • Members-Only Forums
  • Exclusive Videos
  • Subscribe Now!
Inbox
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 2  Next >

Re: Non-conference records

Posted: 10/30/2012 8:29 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


I never said anything about one conference being stronger than another but for the first time this year those non-conference records can make a difference and people should take notice.

In this week's poll, Butler picked up the three first place votes from East Mississippi. However, Nassau gained 17 points on Butler and now sit just four points behind them. Nassau still has an undefeated ASA team yet to play. If they win that game that will give Nassau a big boost in the computer polls.

Not only that, I bet Butler is ranked first or second on every human pollsters ballot. I also bet, by past reputation, that Nassau is not ranked third on those ballots which means if teams lose ahead of them Nassau can gain more points through the human vote.

Butler may get excluded from the national championship because their conference has a losing record and Blinn (Butler's lone NC win) turns out to be a 2-6 team.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 10/30/2012 8:31 AM

Re: Non-conference records 



NEFootball wrote:

Butler may get excluded from the national championship because their conference has a losing record and Blinn (Butler's lone NC win) turns out to be a 2-6 team.
Bringing the funny.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 10/30/2012 1:55 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


There would be a riot if butler were left out in favor of Nassau.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 10/30/2012 3:32 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


While I do not disagree that Butler is most likely a much better team than Nassau, the computer element to the polls has really changed its makeup. The computer does not look at previous years and how teams from different conferences did against each other.

What the computer sees is that Nassau beat Georgia Military by 26 points who had already beaten Snow by 17 points. It also sees that Butler's lone non-conference win was against a 2-6 Blinn team and Butler's conference having a losing record against other NJCAA schools.

I have no love loss for the Nassau program but I find it interesting that the Northeast Conference never has anyone ranked in the top five prior to this year and this year there are two. The pollsters have not changed so ASA and Nassau have to be real high in the computer poll.
 
Would a win over an undefeated ASA team give Nassau the four more points it needs to overtake Butler? I guess we will see and in the future will conferences have to come up with a scheduling strategy that will best position their top teams?
Reply | Quote

Posted: 10/30/2012 7:21 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


Im not really concerned, but the computer rankings need to go. There isn't enough interconference play to create a meaningful statistical comparison.

I agree with bandrat that Nassau could not beat any team in the top 10. Butler would beat Nassau like a rented mule.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/10/2012 11:06 AM

Re: Non-conference records 



Butler79 wrote: There would be a riot if butler were left out in favor of Nassau.
Don't have to worry about that now.  Nassau fell, 30-29 to ASA today.  There's no way ASA is jumping all the way from 5 to 2.  Now Butler just needs to take care of business Sunday.
Reply | Quote
  • bandrat
  • Member
  • 543 posts this site

Posted: 11/10/2012 11:31 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


Out of all of this, I see light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a team from "whiney" Mississippi will play NEO in a bowl game. I would love to see that happen.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/10/2012 11:37 AM

Re: Non-conference records 



bandrat wrote: Out of all of this, I see light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe a team from "whiney" Mississippi will play NEO in a bowl game. I would love to see that happen.
i sure hope so, but that could all be in jeopardy if the citizen's bank bowl invites them to be the home team.  what i don't want to see is ASA head to MS for a bowl game.  that would be no contest.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/15/2012 10:34 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


ASA College has over 15 players with D1 offers. I was at the game last Saturday. I have also seen all of their games on tape. Those boys can and will play with anyone. Therefore, it can be quite a contest... That defense is nasty!!! Might be #1 or #2 in the country. OL and DL are huge, the RB is top 4 in the country. The slot receiver is electric, fastest player on the field at any given time. The only concerns that I have are that they have a young QB, but actually, I got to give it to the kid, he showed nerves of steel during the Nassau game. Secondly, the punt return game can not turnover the ball, learn to indentify when to call for a fair catch or when to run with it. Lastly, one of the corners got tested and got beat for 2 TDs.

Nonetheless, it's going to be an interesting game vs. Snow College. I guess ASA needs this win to earn some respect across the country... I wonder if the game will be televised?

Last edited 11/15/2012 10:39 PM by rounders23

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 6:34 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


ASA definitely needs to win this game to earn respect.  Snow is overrated at #4.  Snow would not have won the championship in any of the other three major conferences. 

We will just have to agree to disagree about ASA's defense being "nasty."  Nasty defenses don't give up 21 points to Monroe College or 29 to Nassau.  The 21 points by Monroe was the most points that Monroe scored on any NJCAA team all season.  It did score 40+ against Wagner JV.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 7:29 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


I hear you, to get respect you have to earn it. To their defense, Monroe scored 21 points in the second half on ASA's JV guys, not their 1st nor 2nd team guys... Yes, ASA has a JV team also... They also gave Nassau short fields twice (inside 20) with turnovers (14 quick points). They gave up 14 against Dean and 3 against Lackawanna; two respectable programs.

I understand that historically the NE conference have not been the powerhouses of JUCO football world. ASA is on it's 4th year of existence and they are a full scholarship program. Little by little they have recruited top talent from around the country (My recruits from Miami, FL). Together with the D1 bouncebacks, they have been able to put a nice product on the field. With all that said, the games need to be played.

If ASA can keep the turnovers to a minimum, I believe they will take this game convincingly. If not, it can be a long day. No matter how good your defense is, if they're on the field all day and in short yardage situations, it will equal to a long day for them. Last year when ASA faced the #1 rusher in the country (Louisburg), he was shut out. This year they face the #1 rusher in the country again. It will be an interesting matchup.

Do you think that Nassau can go down to the desert and beat Arizona Western?  

Last edited 11/16/2012 8:15 AM by rounders23

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 7:42 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


I;m not sold on AZ Western or the AZ/Utah conference, in general.  I think that conference is notably inferior to the other 3 power conferences, especially since the loss of Dixie College a decade or so ago.  In fact, it might be more comparable to the Iowa conferece, esp. now that IWCC is making a name for itself. 

So, yeah, I think Nassau has a chance.  I'm not sure that I would even say Nassau is an underdog.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 10:43 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


I'm sure they will ready to play vs. AWC. They were not intimidated at all vs. ASA. They played hard, but ASA just had to much talent on both sides of the ball. It will be great for the NE conference if all 3 teams can win their bowl games.

JUCO needs all these other conference to step their game up. I know the Louisburg/Ellsworth game won't prove anything, but the other two games might make a bit of a statement.

If no one has done a bowl pick 'em thread after Thanksgiving, I'll start one up.

Shoot, we still got two more weeks...ohlord
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 12:09 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


I am a little bit surprised that Georgia Military and Louisburg both recieved bowl bids over Dean. Dean beet them both, finished 7-3 and has a legitimate Division 1 QB. Louisburg, who is no better than the fourth best team in the Northeast Conference, will likely struggle with Ellsworth on the road like that. It is a good story though with Coach Sala taking his team back to Iowa to face his former school. 

ASA is good and, although its far from a home game for ASA, Snow does have to come to the Northeast which is something no team west of the Mississippi has done in a long time. I will go to this game and am excited to watch it.

I have seen Nassau twice this year and have not been overly impressed with their offense but they did beat GMC by about the same as Iowa Western did so we will see if they can keep pace with Arizona Western.

My hunch says go with Butler in the title game. They have really been dominant all year in a traditionally stronger conference. However, not that it means too much but Iowa Western's baseball team surprised a lot of poeple beating the traditional southern powers in winning the two of the last three college world series. Maybe something's in the water in Council Bluffs. Butler 38-28.

Last edited 11/16/2012 12:10 PM by NEFootball

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 1:14 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


Iowa Western seems to be really competitive in all of its athletic programs.  Could it be HGH in the water?

Kidding, of course.  This will be a good match up.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 5:01 PM

Re: Non-conference records 



NEFootball wrote: 
ASA is good and, although its far from a home game for ASA, Snow does have to come to the Northeast which is something no team west of the Mississippi has done in a long time. I will go to this game and am excited to watch it.

I think the last team from west of MS that came to the NE and won a bowl game was the 1999 Empire State Bowl when New Mexico Military beat Nassau.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/16/2012 6:11 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


I totally agree that Dean should of been invited to a bowl game. Maybe they were, but declined; who knows...
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/17/2012 11:16 PM

Re: Non-conference records 


Butler defeated Nassau 30-20 in the 2000 Canon Empire State Bowl. Last time I checked, Butler was west of the Mississippi.
Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/18/2012 1:26 AM

Re: Non-conference records 



Butler79 wrote: I;m not sold on AZ Western or the AZ/Utah conference, in general.  I think that conference is notably inferior to the other 3 power conferences, especially since the loss of Dixie College a decade or so ago.  In fact, it might be more comparable to the Iowa conferece, esp. now that IWCC is making a name for itself. 

So, yeah, I think Nassau has a chance.  I'm not sure that I would even say Nassau is an underdog.

From my vantage point, it appears that there are many similarities among the different conferences. As a general observation, each conference generally features 1 really good team and one or maybe two challangers each year. Butler/Hutch, Blinn/Navarro, Snow/AW, etc. After that, the quality of teams appears to degrade quickly for pretty much every conference. As far as which conference is the best top to bottom - we'll never know because the current system doesn't allow for enough interconference games to make any meaningful conclusions. However, just going off of the recent bowl games for the top teams from the WSFL since 2008, AZW played for the national title last year against East Mississippi and lost in the final minute of the game in a shootout in Arizona.  The previous year,  Blinn beat AZW by 4 points in the Heart of Texas Bowl.   The year before that, AZW lost to East Mississippi by 3 points in the Mississippi Bowl.   The year before that, Snow lost to Butler in double overtime in the national championship game in SLC by gifting Butler a fumble recovery in the endzone after a blocked kick that cost Snow the game.  Each of these games weren't decided until basically the last posession or sometimes even the last play of the game.  A single play could have changed the outcomes of any of these games.   My whole point is that I think among the top teams from each of the major conferences, I think there is a lot of parity, not just in comparing the WSFL conference to the others, but among all the major conferences in general.  I have a hard time picking one conference over another for more than a single season at a time.  For me it just depends on what kind of year individual teams are having in a given year.


Now, all that said, I think I favor AZW in this game, but only because I know nothing about Nasau. I don't think it will be a given - I expect Nassau to put up a fight.  They have certainly put up some impressive numbers during the season.  But AZW has been impressive as well. They played for all the marbles just last year and have established a winning tradition over the last several years, with several players back from last years team.  They have athletes and several key playmakers.  In the end I think they eventually overpower Nassau.

Last edited 11/19/2012 7:56 PM by NJCAAfootballfan

Reply | Quote

Posted: 11/19/2012 9:26 AM

Re: Non-conference records 


In general, I think you're right that most conferences have a couple of good teams, then a substantial dropoff. 

I think Texas tends to be a little tougher on the bottom end, arguably making it the best top to bottom conference.  

That being said, I still think that UT/AZ conference is the softest of the big 4.  As your post notes, the top UT/AZ teams lose to the top teams from the other conference.  Sure, there have been close games, but they're all losses.  And, you left out the massive beating that Snow took at the hands of Butler the year before the double OT game.  I forget the exact score, but it was something like 54-26, and it was only that close because they played the first half in heavy snow.  It was close at halftime, then the snow stopped and the field melted clean.  After that, it was all Butler.

Anyway, I also tend to see that Snow and AZW are up and down.  In years where AZW was competitive with other top teams, Snow was not really very good, and the situation is arguably reversed this year.  I could be wrong, but I think the other conferences have at least two teams that would be competitive with any of the top 2 or 3 teams from the other power conferences.  That would be Butler/Hutch, Navarro/NEO/Kilgore, and MGCCC/CO-lin/and maybe EMSS or NWCC.
Reply | Quote
Reply to TopicPost New Topic
  Page of 2  Next >