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Kayden Porter?
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Posted: 9/6/2012 4:44 PM
Kayden Porter?
Perhaps I missed it, but I did not see Jayden Porter in any of the photos. Given his status as a highly acclaimed prospect, I was wondering if anyone on the board knows if he is in school and all is well. Anyone?
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Posted: 9/6/2012 6:21 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
maybe he is too large to fit in any pictures!!! he is huge! just kidding...not all pitchers pitched that day. i bet he throws tomorrow.....
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Posted: 9/6/2012 6:41 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
It will be interesting to see if he or any other player plays in the field and pitches. Several of our new recruits have mentioned talking with the coaches about playing both ways. Given that Porter is a prolific home run hitter (all time Utah high school record holder and runner up in a minor league allstar home run derby), will we get to see him hit?
Given we have seen so many kids mention palying both ways, maybe Coach is considering loosening the usual approach on this.
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Posted: 9/6/2012 8:32 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
It's not really a matter of "loosening the approach." Coach Fox will find a way to work a pitcher into the batting order if he demonstrates that he's consistently one of the top nine or ten batters on the squad.
I know that some pitchers coming in are known to have been good hitters at the high school level; but, they face a couple of distinct disadvantages once they arrive. First, they're competing on a daily basis against position players who have probably gotten quite a few more reps at the plate than the pitchers over the prior several years. In effect, the position players have focused their attention on hitting up to that point; whereas the pitchers haven't.
Additionally, once here, the two-way player has to find a way to stay sharp both on the mound and at the plate to remain good enough to be considered a hitter as well as a pitcher. Talk to any of our pitchers, and they'll tell you that they have their hands full trying to make themselves good enough to be called upon consistently to pitch. Add in the requirement that two-way players also have to get their reps in in the batting cage; and you've made the task of being a player and a student even more challenging than it already is.
The coaching staff is open to having two-way players. The challenge is finding a way to be consistently good enough at both that, in effect, you make the coaches put you in on the mound and at the plate.
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Posted: 9/6/2012 9:19 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Awesome that we still have you around rc
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Posted: 9/6/2012 9:38 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Thanks very much, Hurdle!
How does that phrase go? "Like a bad cold, hard to get rid of!"
Actually, the operative phrase would be "once a Tar Heel, always a Tar Heel...especially when it comes to the Diamond Heels!" That goes for Woody, as well, of course.
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Posted: 9/7/2012 10:30 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
rc, thanks for the insightful response. I do not know the program details well enough to know if guys who are pitchers who want to try to play two ways are given enough time to hit and play in the field in practice to become one of the 10 or so best day to day players. It seems we have the possibility in Kayden.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 7:18 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
I think it is more a matter of whether the player is committed to the extra work necessary AND able to physically handle it. His approach won't change on the demands, so to answer your question no. Luis tried it last year and quickly decided it wasn't the right thing to do.
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--- SED90 wrote:
It will be interesting to see if he or any other player plays in the field and pitches. Several of our new recruits have mentioned talking with the coaches about playing both ways. Given that Porter is a prolific home run hitter (all time Utah high school record holder and runner up in a minor league allstar home run derby), will we get to see him hit?
Given we have seen so many kids mention palying both ways, maybe Coach is considering loosening the usual approach on this.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 8:50 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
I just have this feling that one dat Woody will be back in the Bosh, in the third base Dugout.
I wish him well!
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--- rc1126 wrote:
Thanks very much, Hurdle!
How does that phrase go? "Like a bad cold, hard to get rid of!"
Actually, the operative phrase would be "once a Tar Heel, always a Tar Heel...especially when it comes to the Diamond Heels!" That goes for Woody, as well, of course.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 9:48 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
We've seen quite a few two-way players at other ACC schools in recent years, so what's the difference in Chapel Hill? I'm not trying to be a smart-ass... just asking what I think is a legitimate question.
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--- rc1126 wrote:
Additionally, once here, the two-way player has to find a way to stay sharp both on the mound and at the plate to remain good enough to be considered a hitter as well as a pitcher. Talk to any of our pitchers, and they'll tell you that they have their hands full trying to make themselves good enough to be called upon consistently to pitch. Add in the requirement that two-way players also have to get their reps in in the batting cage; and you've made the task of being a player and a student even more challenging than it already is.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 10:14 AM
RE: Kayden Porter?
Well I am not aware of many at all in the ACC who have been true 2 way players. In fact in recent years the trend has been moving away from 2 way players. Stroman started out at Duke as a 2 way guy but that didn't last past his freshman year. There might be some guys getting some ab's once in awhile but who were the true 2 way players in the ACC last year? Guys that pitched on a regular basis and also were in the line up hitting every game?
When you look at the elite programs in the nation your chances of being a 2 way player are just slim to none. Why? These elite programs recruit elite pitchers and elite hitters. So now your trying to not only beat out other elite pitchers for mound time your trying to do 2 things better than another guy can do one. Owings at Ga Tech and Doolittle at UVA are the last 2 guys I can remember that were true 2 way players in the ACC. Guys that were rotation regulars and in the line up hitting every day.
Every big time arm that comes to UNC who could swing it in HS wants to be a 2 way player before they step on campus. Then they see all those other big time arms and all those hitters and things change very quickly. If a guy shows his bat has to be in the line up and he is one of the best options on the hill then he will be a 2 way guy. But the fact is at a program like UNC that is a very rare exception and is at every elite program. Its not just UNC how many 2 way players do you see at the other big time programs? In fact its rare for the mid majors as well. Just not as rare for the reasons I posted.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 10:21 AM
RE: Kayden Porter?
^^^ This...in spades.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 12:09 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Jake Davies at GT last year ??
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Posted: 9/8/2012 12:34 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
I think that UVA had a big-time two way player (pitcher/1st baseman?) 2-3 years ago.
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Posted: 9/8/2012 12:52 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
All of us can come up with notable exceptions; but, it takes exceptional players to create those exceptional cases. A player here, a player there; ones who are truly two-way players.
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Posted: 9/9/2012 10:59 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Danny Hultzen.
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Posted: 9/10/2012 7:43 AM
RE: Kayden Porter?
That's absolutely not true. Stroman played a lot in the field as a soph, and was also a starting pitcher for a while. By the end of the season, he was playing pretty much full time at 2B, and had also become their closer.
FYI, Jake Davies (GT), Korey Welker (Md) and Andrew Istler (dook) were full time two-way players last year in the ACC.
Hultzen and Doolittle at UVa are the ones that immediately come to mind, since they were so successful, but I'm sure I can find others, if I check team stats for the last few years... Mike McGee just popped into my head. While they weren't true two-way players, Stroman, Rodon and Gilmartin got some limited ABs last year, while serving as their staff aces.
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--- heelz62 wrote:
Stroman started out at Duke as a 2 way guy but that didn't last past his freshman year.
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Last edited 9/10/2012 7:48 AM by UNC76
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Posted: 9/10/2012 9:27 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Greg Holt is probably the closest thing to a two way player we've had in a long time. He was very productive out of the pen and as a DH a couple of years ago.
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Posted: 9/10/2012 9:49 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
I think we're much more likely to have guys out of the pen do it than starting P's.
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--- OldLeaguer wrote:
Greg Holt is probably the closest thing to a two way player we've had in a long time. He was very productive out of the pen and as a DH a couple of years ago.
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Posted: 9/10/2012 5:16 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
--------------------OldLeaguer wrote------------------
Greg Holt is probably the closest thing to a two way player we've had in a long time.
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Greg did start as an outfielder and then went to DH then to the pen. But even though he wasn't a two-way player here, I'd still put Alex White as our best option as a two-way player. I still don't understand why he didn't DH some. During 2 of his 3 seasons, the DH had a less than stellar performance in the lineup no matter who was in the order for that day. We used several players' DHing for Alex's last 2 seasons, my opinion, Alex could've out hit any of them.
Fedex was a two-way player in his own right to a degree.
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Posted: 9/12/2012 1:58 AM
RE: Kayden Porter?
Yeah and how good is MD and Duke? Do they even remotely recruit on the level that UNC does? I stand by my post and the facts are there. It's rare and will continue to be rare. And why is it so important for us to have a 2 way guy? I would be willing to bet that if someone on this roster shows his bat is so good he has to be in the line up on a daily basis and his arm is so good he has to pitch we will have a 2 way player. Otherwise we will not.
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Posted: 9/12/2012 4:59 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
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--- Dan77 wrote:
--------------------OldLeaguer wrote------------------
Greg Holt is probably the closest thing to a two way player we've had in a long time.
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Greg did start as an outfielder and then went to DH then to the pen. But even though he wasn't a two-way player here, I'd still put Alex White as our best option as a two-way player. I still don't understand why he didn't DH some. During 2 of his 3 seasons, the DH had a less than stellar performance in the lineup no matter who was in the order for that day. We used several players' DHing for Alex's last 2 seasons, my opinion, Alex could've out hit any of them.
Fedex was a two-way player in his own right to a degree.
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I agree Dan. As well as Greg performed in the DH role, he was still probably the least likely candidate to take on that role. Early in his career Greg was somewhat of a player without a position. He could do a lot of things very well but didn't display one freakishly good tool that would cause the coaching staff to park him in one place. It is well documented how good a hitter Alex White was in his HS career; I'm convinced he could have been a starter as a position player. I'm still surprised his bat didn't get more than a token look at UNC; I have no knowledge but it is possible Alex chose not to pursue the idea very hard.
I think we'll see more potential 2 way players because of the roster limitations. A key injury or two may necessitate the development of a 2 way threat.
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Posted: 10/18/2012 9:49 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
didn't see all the box scores but doesn't look like porter is a true 2 way guy from an offensive standpoint. couple of at bats in the series doesn't say it all but way too many strike outs against decent pitchng but certainly not the top notch pitching one would see fri sat sun in the acc. oh well...big guy with long ball potential becomes just another pitcher at unc. not an uncommon event.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 6:03 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Kayden reportedly hit 6 OVER THE NET in left field in BP last Saturday. No One has hit one over since Jesse Wierz did it with the old bat. With that kind of power, I wouldn't give up on him over a few Ks.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 7:18 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
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--- capecodheel wrote:
didn't see all the box scores but doesn't look like porter is a true 2 way guy from an offensive standpoint. couple of at bats in the series doesn't say it all but way too many strike outs against decent pitchng but certainly not the top notch pitching one would see fri sat sun in the acc. oh well...big guy with long ball potential becomes just another pitcher at unc. not an uncommon event.
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I'd say our guys are top notch ACC pitchers.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 11:47 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Fortunately, the coaches have the benefit of 25 scrimmages in the fall (most of them closed), more in the month prior to the season, and many practice sessions on top of those.
Meanwhile, as Inmit implies, the best overall pitching staff in the conference doesn't just evaporate in intrasquad scrimmages. Our batters face the best.
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Posted: 10/19/2012 2:32 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
no knock on our pitching and no knock on porter. the truth is that it is difficult to be a 2 way guy at this level. not many, if any, freshmen pitcher recruits end up displacing a recruited position player in the batting order. the question is, is porter a 2 way and i think not. i'll also bet that most unc hitters hit better in fall ball than they do in the acc.
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Posted: 10/20/2012 6:45 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
In my limited experience at the FWS, it appears that our pitchers are more likely to groove the pitches than in the regular season. Of course you couldn't tell that on Sunday. Anyway, point is, it may soften things for the batters, a little. Also, the freshmen are likely exceptions to the "hit better in the fall" assertion, as the main thing to help them improve is to see ACC pitching.
Last edited 10/20/2012 6:45 AM by GforHeels
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Posted: 10/20/2012 9:13 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Not true
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Posted: 10/20/2012 10:44 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
i don't think so. if i were a pitcher fighting for a starting spot i certainly would not be grooving pitches. since the fall is all about performance and trying to set oneself up for playing time, i doubt the grooving theory is correct.
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--- GforHeels wrote:
In my limited experience at the FWS, it appears that our pitchers are more likely to groove the pitches than in the regular season. Of course you couldn't tell that on Sunday. Anyway, point is, it may soften things for the batters, a little. Also, the freshmen are likely exceptions to the "hit better in the fall" assertion, as the main thing to help them improve is to see ACC pitching.
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Posted: 10/25/2012 11:46 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Generally, I think the batters have a big advantage in the Fall WS over the pitchers. These pitchers have been throwing to the same talented batters after day after day for weeks on end through the fall BP, simulated games and scrimmages. By the time the WS starts - it becomes very difficult for pitchers to fool / surprise batters. We talk about how many times a pitcher can go through the line-up in a game as a measure of their effectiveness and success. They have faced the "line-up" many, many times - advantage: Batter.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 8:22 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
'grove' pitchers. What the heck does that mean. The lack of baseball knowleddge on this board at times is simply hilarious. So you actually believe that pitchers are just laying the ball in there. Fall, spring, summer,winter pitchers are trying to get hitters out! There is not a UNC pitcher that ever toes the rubber at Boshamer Stadium under Scott Forbes and 'groves' (have not even heard that term in a long time anyway!) pitches. What would be the purpose of that anyway? That is what BP is for I believe.
The pitcher always has the advantage. No matter how many times a hitter faces him. He may know what pitches a pitcher throws but he has no idea what is coming or where or how hard. Advantage pitcher.
It would be nice to know how the top ten hitters fared against the top ten pitchers this fall but I guess we will have to wait until the spring to have any idea about that.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 5:41 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
The competition is fierce. The role in the spring is determined by the performance in the fall. And in some cases if you even have a spot on the roster. No one is giving anyone anything.
Yes the hitters see the pitchers over the course of the fall. But the pitchers see the hitters way more than the hitters see the pitcher they are facing that day. The pitchers talk. They know the hitters strengths and holes. It works both ways. You can bet that the hitters are known by the pitchers by the time the fws comes around. Who does what best. Who likes what and where. There is no real advantage either way imo.
These hitters are facing outstanding arms. The pitchers are facing outstanding hitters. The competition is tremendous for earning mound time for the spring and at bats in the spring. Anyone that doesn't understand that simply has no idea what they are talking about.
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Posted: 10/26/2012 8:58 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Absolutely right on! By the way do you think the top acc teams like Clemson, Miami, UVA, state, don't have advanced scouts recording every pitch and at bat for UNC players. Let's not be so niave! The groove pitch thing just cracks me up and written by a guy who knows what a baseball is but has never stepped between the lines!!
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--- heelz62 wrote:
The competition is fierce. The role in the spring is determined by the performance in the fall. And in some cases if you even have a spot on the roster. No one is giving anyone anything.
Yes the hitters see the pitchers over the course of the fall. But the pitchers see the hitters way more than the hitters see the pitcher they are facing that day. The pitchers talk. They know the hitters strengths and holes. It works both ways. You can bet that the hitters are known by the pitchers by the time the fws comes around. Who does what best. Who likes what and where. There is no real advantage either way imo.
These hitters are facing outstanding arms. The pitchers are facing outstanding hitters. The competition is tremendous for earning mound time for the spring and at bats in the spring. Anyone that doesn't understand that simply has no idea what they are talking about.
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Posted: 10/27/2012 9:21 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
With a 10 mile run on the line for the losing team, I'm pretty sure there weren't any grooved pitches this year, other than the standard 3-0 pitch.
The guys and coaches take the FWS seriously. Otherwise, why would you walk Moran with runners on 2nd and 3rd, and first base open? That happened in game 3, eliciting some boos from the sparce crowd in the stands.
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Posted: 10/28/2012 6:32 AM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Gees. I said in my limited experience at the FWS it seemed like I saw a lot of grooved pitches, and was more or less asking if others had seen that....and so you go and make an attack on me as having a lack of baseball knowledge. I guess you think I should spend more time watching and not so much time grilling. By the way, "knowleddge" is spelled "knowledge."
Also, since you apparently missed the playoffs and/or the World Series, "grooved pitch" is a term used quite frequently by Tim McCarver to describe pitches right over the plate.
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--- loveunc1 wrote:
'grove' pitchers. What the heck does that mean. The lack of baseball knowleddge on this board at times is simply hilarious. So you actually believe that pitchers are just laying the ball in there. Fall, spring, summer,winter pitchers are trying to get hitters out! There is not a UNC pitcher that ever toes the rubber at Boshamer Stadium under Scott Forbes and 'groves' (have not even heard that term in a long time anyway!) pitches. What would be the purpose of that anyway? That is what BP is for I believe.
The pitcher always has the advantage. No matter how many times a hitter faces him. He may know what pitches a pitcher throws but he has no idea what is coming or where or how hard. Advantage pitcher.
It would be nice to know how the top ten hitters fared against the top ten pitchers this fall but I guess we will have to wait until the spring to have any idea about that.
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Posted: 10/28/2012 7:38 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Tim McCarver might be the worst baseball announcer of all time. He talks to the audience as if none have ever seen a baseball game. It is very annoying if you know anything at all about the game. Thanks for pointing out accidental spelling errors and making your point through those means! And yes, perhaps you should spend more time "grilling" than typing on a baseball message board about college pitchers 'grooving' pitches when not only is there no such thing but, as pointed out, the fall baseball season for UNC and I would imagine any top program, is very competitive and all about earning respect and playing time!! OR you could write about the program's top five recruiting class ranking that just came out recently or, if you are intent on writing on the Carolina baseball message board, perhaps begin a baseball intelligent discussion about how the new BBCOR bats have changed the game, how the MLB Collective Bargaining Agreement has changged (oops!) recruiting, how scheduling is going to work when Notre Dame comes into the league (are they coming in 2014 for example?), or something along those lines.
Just please don't talk (type) anything about parking, concesssion prices, Show Pros, ticket prices or how we are losing all our recruits to USC and others. Those have been beat to death here!
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Posted: 10/28/2012 10:38 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
loveunc,
Most of us that post regularly here know each other when we see each other at the games. My point is that a healthy discussion is always welcome. Please try to take a little less offensive approach, I think you will be much more happy with the results you get when you post.
Now I am nobody, I repeat nobody, so you can take, or not take this friendly advice, no difference to me. But you come off a little strong, and you are attempting to slam a very nice guy, who may know a lot more than you think.
I hope you'll keep coming around because I don't remember seeing your name on this forum before. Just try to remember that being aggresive will only get you so far. We are all on the same team here.
Now about my spelling....... LOL it's bad!
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Posted: 10/29/2012 3:53 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
It's all in good fun guys.
Last edited 10/29/2012 4:46 PM by GforHeels
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Posted: 1/5/2013 7:28 PM
Re: Kayden Porter?
Kayden Porter transferred out of UNC to Southern Nevada today.
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