There are two periods during the year in which there are few things to discuss that are UNC football-related. Many of the discussions on the first page of the free board break down eventually to posters arguing with each other as to which player or recruit is going to make the biggest impact, which coach is doing a good or poor job, or some good natured making fun of one of our rivals.

The longest of those two periods is obviously from April to July, the period after spring practice and before summer camp, where there really is very little to talk about in any sport. If you follow the NBA closely, I guess it’s a good time. I follow the baseball heels a bit. There is also the first few months of MLB, but honestly if the Heels don’t make the CWS and Tiger and/or Phil aren’t in one of the majors, it’s a bit of a dead period in sports.

The other period that I consider a near dead period is the six weeks between NSD and the start of spring practice. There really is not much to talk about OTHER than UNC regular season basketball for me, and since we aren’t exactly tearing it up right now, I tend to keep my focus a bit more on the football program--at least until it gets closer down the stretch.

It is an interesting time in the ACC with expansion rumors, membership changing, and the addition of Notre Dame. However, very little of that is going to change an immediate opportunity that is going on RIGHT NOW in the ACC which directly could impact UNC. I’m talking about the current status of Virginia Tech football and how it directly affects UNC's program.

The Hokies have been in the ACC now for 9 seasons, winning the coastal five out of the 8 times it has been awarded and winning the ACC conference title four times. Prior to last year, they have had only season where they lost three ACC games, and in that year (2008), they still won the coastal and the ACCCG. LOL. They have been the best program in the league by every conceivable measure.

With that being said, last year’s record of 4-4 was by FAR the worst season that Beamer and crew have had since joining the ACC and you probably have to go back to before the Vick era to find a worse season of Hokie football and maybe even back to the early 90s. I don’t know if it is a trend or not, but a lot of those losses weren’t even close and three of their four wins were by one possession (only their win over dook was by more than 7 points). Hardly the resume of a program poised to bounce back and win 6 or 7 conference games in 2013. I get that they had a tough schedule, but losing to UNC by two TD’s and a Miami team by 18 is a far cry from where this program was three years ago.

Hokie football is at an interesting spot in its life cycle. I still don't see how Beamer survived his first six seasons (it never would have happened in today's era). If this season also produces a similar result (to 2012), you are going to move a lot of Hokie fans from tentatively optimistic to openly concerned.

VT fans love football and they have had a good thing going up there. If you’ve been to a game, it’s a good experience and it has a nice feel. It’s a nice stadium they have and their fans support well, but when times get rough, they are not going to blindly support a soon-to-be 67-year old who has very few years left even by the most optimistic standards. Whether he is forced out or not, a regime change is around the corner and who knows what will happen then. Actually, as long as VT hovers around the 4 or 5 win mark, I think that actually is the best thing that could happen from a UNC standpoint because it won’t be overly obvious to Hokie faithful that it is a necessity to get rid of Beamer, and he’s kind of to the point where he will get the benefit of a doubt from the AD and boosters for several seasons if he wants to keep chugging along. The reason I say this is that although VT has clearly been the best program in the league in the last 9 years, they have never really been a huge competitor on the recruiting trail, they have NOT dominated the ACC the way other top programs have dominated other conferences, and they just haven't been able to cross that threshold from being a regional power to becoming a national contender. Oregon, for example has been 42-5 in the PAC since 2008, and Ohio State was 61-11 against the Big Ten from 2002 to 2010. More years than not, teams like Oregon, Ohio State, and the SEC program du jour are in the national title discussion late in the season. Have the Hokies EVER been in that conversation since being in the ACC? Also, despite their best attempts, the Hokies have not typically stolen many NC recruits and although they do well with VA recruits, they actually lose quite a bit to inferior programs--probably more than the number of NC recruits that UNC loses which is saying something considering the relative stances of the two programs since they joined the ACC. IOW, I’ve always thought that VT should have done better recruiting the state of Virginia considering the competition and they absolutely should have done better in NC. I think these really are the primary reasons that they haven't been able to move from a consistent 6 or 7 win ACC win program to a nationally relevant program.

With Miami set to be on probation and possibly under other sanctions, I can’t see them having a consistent presence at the top of the ACC and it is more likely that they dip and become a lower half coastal division. Virginia is obviously struggling with London and his days are likely numbered. With GT, to me it seems the PJ experiment has kind of run its course in Atlanta. Maybe the OCPJ crowd will hold the upper hand in the discussions down there, but whether they keep him for 2-3 years or make a move today, they have dug themselves a hole that will take 2-3 years to get out given the kind of personnel they have stockpiled to run that offense.

I think of all the ACC coastal programs, the Heels could benefit the most by the “controlled demise” of the hokies. On the recruiting trail, with this next class, the recruiting sanctions will be in the past. This program is moving forward and we have a coach who runs an exciting style of offense that kids like. And the defense HAS to improve when we are allowed more bodies in 2015. There obviously will be no more bowl bans and the only year that the c/0 2014 will be playing for a program on probation will be their first. I don’t want Beamer out because that could put a Fedora-like guy in Blacksburg and he could start recruiting like a bandit and that probably would not be a good situation. If he stays, it will give our guy a 2-3 year head start on rebuilding.

Feel free to comment where you agree/disagree

Good analysis...
but the next HC in Blacksburg is Bud Foster, defensive genius. His tenure will be against the great tide of football at all levels, defensive concentration.
I don't think he will last too many years, 5 at the most. GT, Miami and Pitt, will likely recover before they do.

I think we actually have a 5-6 year head start, so long as we can keep Fedora. He will be a target.

I have heard some VT alums talking about Foster wanting to be a Head Coach. Shane Beamer may be the next HC there

I doubt they will be stupid enough to promote Foster, but these are the Aggies of the Commonwealth so who knows.

I sincerely hope they crash and burn and karma dictates that they should, but I wouldn't place that bet just yet. Beamer could right the ship quickly.

I agree with CNC that the Hokies were even less competitive than their record would suggest last season (we certainly should have beaten them by more). While I wouldn't count them out yet, I'm not sweating that game either.

I do not disagree but I wouldn't be too concerned either way. In any future recruiting battles that come along, my money would be on Fedora and staff (regardless of who they bring in after Beamer). NCAA issues at the time or not, UNC could not have found a more perfect fit than Larry Fedora IMHO. The wave of momentum that he has already generated is going to be hard to catch up with. Interesting observations by the way.

The next coach of VT will be Mike Tomlin after he is fired from the Steelers!

Of course I'm joking, but isn't he from Virginia? And all bs'ing aside, I don't see him lasting in Pittsburgh much longer (2-3 years)

I'd be terrified if they made a hire like Tomlin, haha!

I'd quibble with your assertions re. PJ. I don't see him going anywhere, barring a total collapse. And as for the talent should he leave, PJ did quite well early on with someone else's recruits; no reason another quality coach wouldn't do well with his.

VaTech was very prominent in the national power scene when Vick was under center when they played for the national championship. Other than that they have been a regional power up until this last blessed season.

Now way Foster....he is not very alumni friendly and I am not sure he is a #1.

Beamer, Jr. would be a great choice, but not sure that is the route they would take.

Beamer will wear out his welcome. It is starting to creep in. He has had a great, great run with less talent than most. But schemes and the game are a changing.

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

---------------------------------------------
--- HokieDR wrote:

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

---------------------------------------------

So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

On a personal level and from a UNC guy's perspective, one of the worst things that has happened to UNC football in the last 20 years was that win over Miami in 2004. (not THE worst thing, but certainly one of them). Logic: it gave Bunting an extension and caused a minor financial commitment to the coach who had gone 3-9 and 2-10 in the two previous seasons. Despte going 5-3 in the league that year, most folks knew that JB was not the answer and we limped along for three more years through losing seasons. It took Davis two additional years of rebuilding to really get the talent level back to where it needed to be. The Bunting era pushed tar heel football back 7 or 8 years while ensuring we didn't have a seat at the table for some of the best recruits in the state.

I often think that if I could go back, I would probably have liked to see Barth miss that FG. Three straight losing season would have virtually guaranteed that we got a new coach and two back-to-back "on the cheap" coaches would have nearly guaranteed that Baddour and the admins would have opened up the checkbook to get a quality rock solid HC and staff to lead the program. We could have been Oregon or Stanford by now if the right coach would have been hired. But alas, we got JB and we are what we are today.

Rivals had vpi with the 3rd best recruiting class in the ACC, the highest ranking of all the ranking services and the only one in which they were ranked higher than Carolina. For the 1st time ever they got a 5* from outside VA, the brother of three previous players. They also got 3 4* players, one a 6'5" QB they compare to Thomas. They got 10 of the top 30 in VA , compared to uva with 6 (5 of the top 7 went out of state before vpi got one). vpi got two out of NC - Moss, LB from Eliz City and Carlis Parker, QB from Statesville. Beamer compares Parker to M Vick. This is the best class for vpi in several years.

vpi has to do more with their offense but the new OC comes with a background the same as all others they've had. Their OL will be the key factor for them in 2013. Without significant improvement up front the RBs will be average and Ds will game plan for Thomas.

vpi brings in good recruits on D and does a very good job coaching them, they should be consistently good there. I don't think vpi would turn to the DC to replace Beamer though.

odu moves up to FBS status in 2013 (and Carolina plays them this year). In 3-4 years they could become a headache for vpi and uva in Tidewater recruiting.

I hope they hire Foster to replace Beamer. It will be a really good day for Tarheel football. Think Torbush

---------------------------------------------
--- caswellone wrote:

Good analysis...
but the next HC in Blacksburg is Bud Foster, defensive genius. His tenure will be against the great tide of football at all levels, defensive concentration.
I don't think he will last too many years, 5 at the most. GT, Miami and Pitt, will likely recover before they do.

I think we actually have a 5-6 year head start, so long as we can keep Fedora. He will be a target.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
--- bucinor wrote:

I'd quibble with your assertions re. PJ. I don't see him going anywhere, barring a total collapse. And as for the talent should he leave, PJ did quite well early on with someone else's recruits; no reason another quality coach wouldn't do well with his.

---------------------------------------------

Ummm... yeah there is a reason, a pretty good one. lmao

---------------------------------------------
--- ProfessorSmith wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- bucinor wrote:

I'd quibble with your assertions re. PJ. I don't see him going anywhere, barring a total collapse. And as for the talent should he leave, PJ did quite well early on with someone else's recruits; no reason another quality coach wouldn't do well with his.

---------------------------------------------

Ummm... yeah there is a reason, a pretty good one. lmao

---------------------------------------------

I'd have to agree with the professor here. GT recruits a very specific type of O-lineman for example. Very small. His line would get annhialated trying to run a pro-style or probably even a spread for that matter. Also, GT probably isn't very deep at WR and probably hasn't been bringing in a high volume of talented recruits for that position since they don't throw hardly ever.

In theory, moving from a pro-style attack to an option attack should not be nearly as difficult as moving from an option attack to a pro-style attack. PJ got a bit lucky with having Josh Nesbitt on the roster when he got the job, but he could have put a RB back there and won 6 or 7 games in that offense. At this point with so few OL, WR, and QB recruited to pass block, run good routes, and read defenses, respectively, GT would not be properly equipped to run a "normal" offense for two years minimum.

More than any other program in the league, GT is most invested in their current HC and his kind of offense (at least in terms of how it relates to their current "kind" of player--particularly on offense). They NEED PJ to be successful with what they have or it's going to be quite a rebuilding process.

---------------------------------------------
--- bucinor wrote:

I'd quibble with your assertions re. PJ. I don't see him going anywhere, barring a total collapse. And as for the talent should he leave, PJ did quite well early on with someone else's recruits; no reason another quality coach wouldn't do well with his.

---------------------------------------------

I don't think there's any question that either this year or next year UNC will be poised to be the perennial favorite in the Coastal Division for the foreseeable future. Consider all those factors that C&C laid out...that's a lot of things going right for Carolina.

- VT: Coaching change impending in the next 4 years (if not sooner) and a team that slipped greatly last season
- GT: Schematic advantage on offense when perfectly executing, but average talent and unlikeable coach create questions
- Pitt: New to the ACC, and wasn't exactly tearing it up in an inferior BIG EAST
- Miami: Probation & possible sanctions forthcoming, but talent makes them a constant irritant
- UVA: Bad year and unstable coaching situation creates uncertainty with the program
- Dook: Must prove is last year was an anomaly, but is 6 wins their ceiling anyway?

If Fedora and his staff can get things right in Year 2, there is no question that the Heels are primed and ready for division title contention for the future.

CornbreadandCollards wrote
------------------------------------
So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

-------------------------------------------------- --------

No need to worry Cornbread. No way VT gets rid of Beamer before his contract expires. As I said the deal has already been made to move him into an administrative position which was smart in my opinion. We are not going to let him die if office like some programs do.

Last year was our worst team in 20 years and still came close to playing in the ACC championship game that's how bad ACC football is.
I am glad the old man shook up his staff. Tells me he's not content to ride off into the sunset. VT football fans are like UNC basketball fans. We are used to winning and will do what it takes to make that happen. We are not going to fire Beamer anymore than UNC is going to fire Roy.

Comparing Parker to Vick is laughable, and BTW I am from Statesville and have seen and know about Carlis quite well, while how very talented he is, he is not in Vick's Class!!!!

---------------------------------------------
--- acc14 wrote:

Rivals had vpi with the 3rd best recruiting class in the ACC, the highest ranking of all the ranking services and the only one in which they were ranked higher than Carolina. For the 1st time ever they got a 5* from outside VA, the brother of three previous players. They also got 3 4* players, one a 6'5" QB they compare to Thomas. They got 10 of the top 30 in VA , compared to uva with 6 (5 of the top 7 went out of state before vpi got one). vpi got two out of NC - Moss, LB from Eliz City and Carlis Parker, QB from Statesville. Beamer compares Parker to M Vick. This is the best class for vpi in several years.

vpi has to do more with their offense but the new OC comes with a background the same as all others they've had. Their OL will be the key factor for them in 2013. Without significant improvement up front the RBs will be average and Ds will game plan for Thomas.

vpi brings in good recruits on D and does a very good job coaching them, they should be consistently good there. I don't think vpi would turn to the DC to replace Beamer though.

odu moves up to BCS status in 2013 (and Carolina plays them this year). In 3-4 years they could become a headache for vpi and uva in Tidewater recruiting.

---------------------------------------------

Replacing poor and middling performing coaches has little if any positive effect on team performance statistically - and it is actually probably a negative.
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10...12.00929.x/full

As long as a coach has enough charm and credibility to recruit, my guess is that maintaining continuity and recruiting relationships are more important than any actual perceived improvement in coaching ability.

If that guess is right, then VT replacing Beamer with someone who brings in a mostly new staff would probably be the best for the rest of the Coastal.

Honestly, after the crap the VT coaches did ( along with iNCeST ) during our ordeal, and the pure venom, slander, and outright lies that their fanbase has spread all over the internet... I hope and pray VT burns for eternity in a deep pit of hell right beside iNCeST.

AMEN Shadow PREACH IT BROTHER !!!!!!!!!!!

personally...i hope they let beamer walk the sidelines wearing depends for the next 20 years....fedora is gonna spank him in games and recruiting....the game has definitely passed beamer by and it could get ugly in blacksburg if vt's admin isnt careful....as far as pj....gt wont put up with many more 7-7 seasons.....chan gailey got the boot and was better than that

For the past two seasons vpi has been fortunate to avoid injury to Thomas, since he was essentially their only option, and he was recruited primarily as a TE. That somewhat explains their low risk offensive scheme but even with Vick et al, vpi plays mostly to make few mistakes, look for big play opportunities and let the D tilt the field in their favor.

I have doubts about the new OC changing much but I don't know a lot about their squad for next season. Maybe our vpi visitor can gives us an evaluation.

---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- HokieDR wrote:

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

---------------------------------------------

So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

On a personal level and from a UNC guy's perspective, one of the worst things that has happened to UNC football in the last 20 years was that win over Miami in 2004. (not THE worst thing, but certainly one of them). Logic: it gave Bunting an extension and caused a minor financial commitment to the coach who had gone 3-9 and 2-10 in the two previous seasons. Despte going 5-3 in the league that year, most folks knew that JB was not the answer and we limped along for three more years through losing seasons. It took Davis two additional years of rebuilding to really get the talent level back to where it needed to be. The Bunting era pushed tar heel football back 7 or 8 years while ensuring we didn't have a seat at the table for some of the best recruits in the state.

I often think that if I could go back, I would probably have liked to see Barth miss that FG. Three straight losing season would have virtually guaranteed that we got a new coach and two back-to-back "on the cheap" coaches would have nearly guaranteed that Baddour and the admins would have opened up the checkbook to get a quality rock solid HC and staff to lead the program. We could have been Oregon or Stanford by now if the right coach would have been hired. But alas, we got JB and we are what we are today.

---------------------------------------------

Agree 100 percent on Bunting. The wins over Miami and State saved his job. Which, in hindsight, was the worst thing for Carolina football.

Had he been fired after '04, we would have had a new HC, for sure. Who do you think it would have been? I would have bet it would have been Steve Spurrier.

OK, let me have it for saying it...

---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- HokieDR wrote:

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

---------------------------------------------

So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

On a personal level and from a UNC guy's perspective, one of the worst things that has happened to UNC football in the last 20 years was that win over Miami in 2004. (not THE worst thing, but certainly one of them). Logic: it gave Bunting an extension and caused a minor financial commitment to the coach who had gone 3-9 and 2-10 in the two previous seasons. Despte going 5-3 in the league that year, most folks knew that JB was not the answer and we limped along for three more years through losing seasons. It took Davis two additional years of rebuilding to really get the talent level back to where it needed to be. The Bunting era pushed tar heel football back 7 or 8 years while ensuring we didn't have a seat at the table for some of the best recruits in the state.

I often think that if I could go back, I would probably have liked to see Barth miss that FG. Three straight losing season would have virtually guaranteed that we got a new coach and two back-to-back "on the cheap" coaches would have nearly guaranteed that Baddour and the admins would have opened up the checkbook to get a quality rock solid HC and staff to lead the program. We could have been Oregon or Stanford by now if the right coach would have been hired. But alas, we got JB and we are what we are today.

---------------------------------------------

Agree 100 percent on Bunting. The wins over Miami and State saved his job. Which, in hindsight, was the worst thing for Carolina football.

Had he been fired after '04, we would have had a new HC, for sure. Who do you think it would have been? I would have bet it would have been Steve Spurrier.

OK, let me have it for saying it...

---------------------------------------------

It was Spurrier, that was locked up...

---------------------------------------------
--- ShadowSpawne wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- HokieDR wrote:

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

---------------------------------------------

So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

On a personal level and from a UNC guy's perspective, one of the worst things that has happened to UNC football in the last 20 years was that win over Miami in 2004. (not THE worst thing, but certainly one of them). Logic: it gave Bunting an extension and caused a minor financial commitment to the coach who had gone 3-9 and 2-10 in the two previous seasons. Despte going 5-3 in the league that year, most folks knew that JB was not the answer and we limped along for three more years through losing seasons. It took Davis two additional years of rebuilding to really get the talent level back to where it needed to be. The Bunting era pushed tar heel football back 7 or 8 years while ensuring we didn't have a seat at the table for some of the best recruits in the state.

I often think that if I could go back, I would probably have liked to see Barth miss that FG. Three straight losing season would have virtually guaranteed that we got a new coach and two back-to-back "on the cheap" coaches would have nearly guaranteed that Baddour and the admins would have opened up the checkbook to get a quality rock solid HC and staff to lead the program. We could have been Oregon or Stanford by now if the right coach would have been hired. But alas, we got JB and we are what we are today.

---------------------------------------------

Agree 100 percent on Bunting. The wins over Miami and State saved his job. Which, in hindsight, was the worst thing for Carolina football.

Had he been fired after '04, we would have had a new HC, for sure. Who do you think it would have been? I would have bet it would have been Steve Spurrier.

OK, let me have it for saying it...

---------------------------------------------

It was Spurrier, that was locked up...

---------------------------------------------

Where would this program be now?

That said, we have a good one in Coach Fedora, and, I hope he can retire from here.

---------------------------------------------
--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Honestly, after the crap the VT coaches did ( along with iNCeST ) during our ordeal, and the pure venom, slander, and outright lies that their fanbase has spread all over the internet... I hope and pray VT burns for eternity in a deep pit of hell right beside iNCeST.

---------------------------------------------

and dook

---------------------------------------------
--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Honestly, after the crap the VT coaches did ( along with iNCeST ) during our ordeal, and the pure venom, slander, and outright lies that their fanbase has spread all over the internet... I hope and pray VT burns for eternity in a deep pit of hell right beside iNCeST.

---------------------------------------------


Yeah, that's what I was trying to say nicely above. I like your way better though.

---------------------------------------------
--- HokieDR wrote:

CornbreadandCollards wrote
------------------------------------
So just to clarify, you think Beamer has FOUR more years on his current deal?!? That is exactly what I was hoping for honestly.

I don't think VT is going to roll over and die either, but I think there is an EXCELLENT chance that they will be a 4 win program going forward as long as Beamer is there. There is nothing that I saw last year that suggests they are going back to 7 win (conference wins) seasons. Of course, one year doesn't constitute a trend. But if they have another season where they only have 3-5 conference wins, there are going to be a lot of tough decision to make. Having the fewest ACC wins in history in back to back seasons would be pretty good evidence that a change is needed. Then they will need to ask themselves "should they limp along or should they be proactive and potentially remove an icon?"

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No need to worry Cornbread. No way VT gets rid of Beamer before his contract expires. As I said the deal has already been made to move him into an administrative position which was smart in my opinion. We are not going to let him die if office like some programs do.

Last year was our worst team in 20 years and still came close to playing in the ACC championship game that's how bad ACC football is.
I am glad the old man shook up his staff. Tells me he's not content to ride off into the sunset. VT football fans are like UNC basketball fans. We are used to winning and will do what it takes to make that happen. We are not going to fire Beamer anymore than UNC is going to fire Roy.

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I'm not worried. What happens will happen...it is very interesting though the position that VT will find itself in.

I'm not clear on what the VT/Beamer relationship is (at least not from the way you are describing it). You mention he has four years on his contract, but there is an agreement to move him to an admin position. I guess my concern if I was a hokie, would be any ambiguity as to what governs that move be made. Also, would he still be paid his current salary if he were to move to this admin position.

Having this agreed upon is a good thing, but it certainly doesn't wrap things up nicely (at least not if I am understanding the situation correctly). Ultimately, there are going to be questions as to what record is good enough to keep the admin/fanbase happy and who will decide if it is time to have Beamer step aside (err move over). I think you're kidding yourself if you think any competitor is going to obligingly move over if he feels he still can do his job well (i.e. no one wants to go out on a bad note). ESPECIALLY, if it is under a circumstance where he doesn't feel it is necessary. What, for example, would happen if VT went 4-4 next year? Would Beamer offer to move over or would he have to be nudged? If 4-4 isn't the "magic record" where it becomes a concern, I'd ask the same question with that record instead whether it be 3-5 or 2-6 or whatever?

Often times, rival fans balk when this kind of discussion is occuring due to their misinterpretation of its purpose or that latent insecurities. They become defensive and want to stop the discussion of their program and perhaps discuss how their school is STILL better than yours in football or bass fishing or some other topic which is completely irrelevant to the discussion like how their school isn't on probation.... I appreciate you (and other Hokies who may read this thread) not going down this path to this point and for not feeling that this is meant to be some sort of jab at your program. If it was, I hope you trust that I could have done that in two sentences instead of two pages.

I appreciate you understanding that it's a legitimate question and opportunity for the Heels and that is why I posted it on this board. You may have almost won the coastal last year, but at the same time, you had the 7th best record in the league. The conference runner-up losing to Middle Tennessee is a much better endorsement of how bad the coastal was this year, but the bowl wins by GT, FSU and Clemson probably are what gives many of us hope that the league is still good and can still be great. VT was the 4th best team in the coastal and probably would have been the third in the Atlantic.

--- HokieDR wrote:

FYI, once Beamer's current contract expires(4 years I think) he has already agreed to step down and take an admin job. No Bobby Bowden scenario going to happen in Blacksburg. Beamer realizes that this is going to be his last hurrah and that is why he made all the coaching changes at the end of the season. Now offensive coordinator, new O-line coach, new receivers coach. Beamer Jr is an excellent recruiter and supposedly so are the other guys. Stinespring demoted to TE coach
which allows him to get back to Tidewater area for recruiting which is what he does best so I think recruiting will improve substantially.
Glad to see UNC getting compeitive but I don't think VT is going to roll over and die anytime soon.

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If they have already agreed on the time and fashion of Beamer leaving, do they also have an understanding with a coach-in-waiting ? I doubt it would be your DC but he if is not there to keep the defense a potent force, any new coach will be without a touchstone to past successes.

I don't totally understand why you think VT is in a downward spiral. Do you think the coaching changes are going to cause a hiccup? They were really bad this yr, but they were solid the year prior. As for recruiting, they always are tween 40 and 30 nationally, but they always do well with it. This year seems their recruiting is about the same - it was an avg class based on their typical output.

If they take a slight step backward it will help us with recruiting, but only if we take steps forward.

As for GaTech, they had weird losses to byu and middle tennesee, but otherwise they seemed to have their average tough-to-beat year. Heck they even scored 21 points on USC. As for their recruiting, it seems tough to compare their offensive recruits with ours. They probably aren't targeting the prototypical guys that everyone else wants. Since they've owned us for 4 yrs, I'm still afraid of tech.

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--- gregh1 wrote:

I don't totally understand why you think VT is in a downward spiral. Do you think the coaching changes are going to cause a hiccup?

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I think I need to recap my OP to answer this, but the hiccup has already occured (last year). I never opined that VT was "trending" downwards just that they had their worst year in 20 years and there was nothing last year to suggest that they are going to turn it around this year. Two years in a row would certanly be indicative that there was some permanence to this new performance standard for the Hokies. With Beamer being an icon and having several years left on his deal, there is a chance that his removal would drag on longer than a coach who did not have such tenure and respect. I would think most Hokies would dismiss this as impossible due to the fact that it has been agreed upon that he will just slide over to the admin position, but I think most unbiased folks realize that this is probably not how it will happen and at a minimum, it will be a bit more complex and uncomfortable than this.

Actually I think a coaching change could be the only way to get them to being truly dominant on a regional AND a national level and to do this soon. Beamer has shown an inability to cross that threshold as I outlined in the OP and it's definitely not happening in Beamer's last years based on what occurred last season. I view it as a good opportunity for the Heels. Hence, I started the thread, not to demean the hokies per se, but to discuss the possibility that this possible dropoff from VT could open a door for the heels.

I think the hokies are not a perennial 6/7 ACC win program for the next few seasons based on what I saw last year.

My view is I want VT to remain a very good program. In fact I want all the ACC schools to perform at a high level. The better the conference the better UNC will be making it easier to get the best recruits, gain national respect, and reach great bowl games consistently.

Certainly a lot of VT fans were concerned over our performance last year, but if you watched closely you can see there were really 2 glaring areas of deficiency, and a strong argument can be made that both can be rectified.

First, VT started off the season with basically no returning starters on defense, and extremely thin secondary. New starters were not just getting their first playing time, many had to be moved to brand new positions just before the season started. Many of VT's losses can be traced directly to mental mistakes and breakdowns in the secondary. However, by the bowl game, VT's D was playing what seems to be a completely new scheme that Foster has developed and really looked like they were playing at an elite level.

Second, VT's offensive struggles were due mostly to exceptionally poor line play. VT did and still has a lot of physically gifted offensive lineman, but their overall play was atrocious. Individual technique was the worst I have ever seen from VT, with players showing tells and all of them for some bizarre reason being coached to jump up and backwards on pass plays. It was actually remarkable watching players regress from the year before, and from game to game. Im not crazy excited about VT's new OC and WR coach hires, but I truly believe that VT will see a massive improvement in offensive line play starting this season.


As for the future of the program, I believe the culture and recruiting ties VT has in the state of Virginia puts VT on solid ground to remain an upper-echelon ACC program for the foreseeable future. However, the culture and location of VT will also prevent them from ever recruiting at a nationally elite level. I think what you saw out of VT since joining the ACC in 2004 is what you will get for the foreseeable future. Whether VT continues to dominate the conference depends mostly on what happens with UNC, Miami, FSU etc.

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--- VTemanresu wrote:

Certainly a lot of VT fans were concerned over our performance last year, but if you watched closely you can see there were really 2 glaring areas of deficiency, and a strong argument can be made that both can be rectified.

First, VT started off the season with basically no returning starters on defense, and extremely thin secondary. New starters were not just getting their first playing time, many had to be moved to brand new positions just before the season started. Many of VT's losses can be traced directly to mental mistakes and breakdowns in the secondary. However, by the bowl game, VT's D was playing what seems to be a completely new scheme that Foster has developed and really looked like they were playing at an elite level.

Second, VT's offensive struggles were due mostly to exceptionally poor line play. VT did and still has a lot of physically gifted offensive lineman, but their overall play was atrocious. Individual technique was the worst I have ever seen from VT, with players showing tells and all of them for some bizarre reason being coached to jump up and backwards on pass plays. It was actually remarkable watching players regress from the year before, and from game to game. Im not crazy excited about VT's new OC and WR coach hires, but I truly believe that VT will see a massive improvement in offensive line play starting this season.


As for the future of the program, I believe the culture and recruiting ties VT has in the state of Virginia puts VT on solid ground to remain an upper-echelon ACC program for the foreseeable future. However, the culture and location of VT will also prevent them from ever recruiting at a nationally elite level. I think what you saw out of VT since joining the ACC in 2004 is what you will get for the foreseeable future. Whether VT continues to dominate the conference depends mostly on what happens with UNC, Miami, FSU etc.

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VT = WVU with better PR and less passion

For the past few years, Beamer has had some limited success cherry-picking in the Tidewater area, with some pretty good talent signing up. I would LOVE to see LF get a foothold back in that talent-rich area.
You have to hand it to the guy. He takes 2- and 3-star players and makes contenders out of them.

Come on Cornbread I know you know better than that. While I'm sure most UNC fans would like to see VT drop a few rungs on the ladder it would be like me saying that UNC basketball is dead just because of the way they are playing this year. Beamer has been slow to change in the minds of a lot of Hokies but he has finally made long overdue changes in his staff. As I said before there won't be a Bowden or Paterno scenario when Frank's contract expires. Frank is looking forward to playing golf when he wants.

As someone who has heard Hokie crap for so many years in my area, I can tell you that VT will never win anything of significance in college football. I have seen their team play a lot and they always fail to show up when the chips are down. I am not saying Carolina football is so much better, because they are not known for football. However, Carolina football has a greater chance of success in the next five years with Fedora unlike VT with an aging Frank Beamer. The one thing that has held them back for so many seasons is their lack of scheduling tough out-of-conference opponents, which it turn makes them untested when they get into a bowl game. That is just my opinion about VT and I am fairly positive I am not alone in this.

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--- uncbb89 wrote:

As someone who has heard Hokie crap for so many years in my area, I can tell you that VT will never win anything of significance in college football. I have seen their team play a lot and they always fail to show up when the chips are down. I am not saying Carolina football is so much better, because they are not known for football. However, Carolina football has a greater chance of success in the next five years with Fedora unlike VT with an aging Frank Beamer. The one thing that has held them back for so many seasons is their lack of scheduling tough out-of-conference opponents, which it turn makes them untested when they get into a bowl game. That is just my opinion about VT and I am fairly positive I am not alone in this.

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You are not alone.