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NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:04 AM
NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
www.nytimes.com/2013/02/05/opi...pinion&_r=0 I believe Joe Nocera (the author) may live part-time in Chapel Hill. It's not unusual for him to cite a UNC study or somehow reference UNC or Chapel Hill. Unfortunately, I can't really argue with most of what he says here... other than his taking McAdoo largely at his word on some statements and thereby painting him as a "victim."
Last edited 2/5/2013 8:07 AM by UNCbiz
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:31 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Yes, would have been nice to get some quotes from the academic advisors who are not grinding axes. Find it hard to believe he wanted to major in criminal justice and did not find out until after he came to UNC we dont offer that. Sounds suspect.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 8:54 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
from Michael McAdoo:
“I would still like to get a college degree someday,” he said. “But not at the University of North Carolina. They just wasted my time.”
That stings.
Too many people on here on simply satisfied to sweep this under the rug by simply tagging all this as an 'academic' problem instead of an 'athletic' problem - end of story. I don't know if there is a real 'fix' to all the academic issues that confront a team full of ringers at a highly selective university, but I hope UNC will do at least some substantive things to make the situation a little better in the future.
Last edited 2/5/2013 8:58 AM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:42 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Article quotes McAdoo as saying he asked a "former" tutor to help him with the paper. So he went outside the lines to obtain help.
She did the whole thing for him which of course is illegal. He bears the responsibility for using someone who was no longer approved.
And since the whole thing was plagiarized, he is responsible for that as well. That seems to be the crux of the problem.
I am sorry for what happened to Michael, but UNC is not solely to blame for his circumstances. He shares the blame. He just doesn't want to admit it.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:00 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
The point of the article is not claim that McAdoo is entirely 'innocent' in all this. Instead, what Nocero is making two points:
1. The NCAA penalty of disqualifying him from all future participation in football was completely out of proportion to his offense and there was no adequate system of recourse to appeal their decision or anyone in place to assert McAdoo's interests in this situation until it was too late.
2. The University didn't have the the proper organization in place to appropriate accomodate athletes who are unprepared for rigorous college work. So instead it shuffled players like McAdoo off into bogus 'paper' classes and forged ahead with the focus on sports. UNC, of course, is merely the example in this case. Nocera's aim is all of college sports; he's not just picking on UNC for UNC's sake.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:23 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
"He told his recruiters he wanted to major in criminal justice. Once he got on campus, however, he was quickly informed by his academic counselors that North Carolina didn’t have a criminal justice major."
This is rather disturbing. You'd have thought one of the coaches recruiting him would have mentioned this.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:26 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
True, but he uses those main points to support his contention that McAdoo was the victim. In fact, he explicitly stated, "...McAdoo is the true victim."
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
The point of the article is not claim that McAdoo is entirely 'innocent' in all this. Instead, what Nocero is making two points:
1. The NCAA penalty of disqualifying him from all future participation in football was completely out of proportion to his offense and there was no adequate system of recourse to appeal their decision or anyone in place to assert McAdoo's interests in this situation until it was too late.
2. The University didn't have the the proper organization in place to appropriate accomodate athletes who are unprepared for rigorous college work. So instead it shuffled players like McAdoo off into bogus 'paper' classes and forged ahead with the focus on sports. UNC, of course, is merely the example in this case. Nocera's aim is all of college sports; he's not just picking on UNC for UNC's sake.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:29 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
You can be guilty and still be a victim.
Go see "Les Miserables". Who's really the 'good guy' versus the 'bad guy' according to Victor Hugo ?
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- jeg1024
- All-ACC
- 895 posts this site
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:38 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Oh boy what that season could've been had all this crap hit the fan. Marvin at DT, and RQ and MM on the ends. Greg back at WR. Defensively at least we wouldve been nasty, but oh well, we have the Fedoration now, come Join the fun!
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Posted: 2/5/2013 10:54 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
I disagree with your point 2. The article says Mcadoo was a good student who could have done college level work but according to him was "steered" to AFAM when he found out UNC did not offer criminal justice which is what he wanted to major in. One could argue that the article subtly suggests that UNC tricked him into coming here by not telling him it did not offer criminal justice and then pushed him into the "football" curriculum. Does not come right out and say that but the assumption is that if McAdoo wanted to major in crim justice he would have asked that during recruiting and he makes it sound as if he was surprised there was no crim justice program for him when he got here.
The article also says that McAdoo only got help with the citations on his paper, but we all know that is not the case. I am beginning to think McAdoo is not always honest.
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
The point of the article is not claim that McAdoo is entirely 'innocent' in all this. Instead, what Nocero is making two points:
1. The NCAA penalty of disqualifying him from all future participation in football was completely out of proportion to his offense and there was no adequate system of recourse to appeal their decision or anyone in place to assert McAdoo's interests in this situation until it was too late.
2. The University didn't have the the proper organization in place to appropriate accomodate athletes who are unprepared for rigorous college work. So instead it shuffled players like McAdoo off into bogus 'paper' classes and forged ahead with the focus on sports. UNC, of course, is merely the example in this case. Nocera's aim is all of college sports; he's not just picking on UNC for UNC's sake.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:08 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
^^^^^^^^^
I suspect you're probably correct that portraying M.McAdoo as some completely innocent babes in the woods is probably not the exact, whole story. On the other hand, I think we've all learned "The Carolina Way" may not have been all it was cracked up to be either.
There's whole story line we read on IC and PackPride and the N&O - was this an 'academic' scandal - which can be laid entirely on the doorstep of the AFAM professor ... or .... was this an 'athletic' scandal where the Athletic Department and these counselors were intentionally shepherding these kids into classes they knew were bogus. And if you can somehow wrap yourself around all the details present here, you can precisely and accurately parse this situation to reach the 'guilty' or 'innocent' conclusion you're seeking.
I don't think this is an 'either - or' situation. I think it's a 'both - and' situation. It never could have happended if this professor and his assistant didn't go out of their way to make it possible ... AND ... the advisors in the athletic advising center were savy as to this 'shortcut' and encouraged their student-athletes to take advantage of it. The only saving grace is that it was only one class - I'm not aware of any one individual taking this type of class multiple times to really change their academic eligibility in a significant way.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:29 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
The only reason for this Joe guy to write this op-ed is that McAdoo was a taxi squad member of the Ravens. This "offense" happened in 2008. We've taken our lumps. Move on........
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:44 AM
NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
In the last Nocera column on this subject in the Observer, Nocera came across as someone obsessed beyond fact or reason with the NCAA. Some of what he said was dead wrong. That he apparently lives near Chapel Hill is no favor to us. Wasn't McAdoo from Chapel Hill or nearby? How easy it would've been for him to check on his supposed major. The Carolina Way has stood a long test of time in a myriad number of sports and athletes and is stil attested to by athletes who were at Carolina when the AFAM mess occurred. This is our second problem with the NCAA - the other over 50 years ago - vs. SIX for State, at a university with amazing success in sports and academics and the target of envy and ire from all of its ACC colleagues, especially UNC-obsessed-beyond-belief State College. IF a savvy academic advisor directed an athlete toward a course alternative apparently blessed by the dean of AFAM, I don't see the horror.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:53 AM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Lets be honest. Some bad crap was going on and some coaches/advisors were complicit.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 12:13 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Though McAdoo clearly had some issues and was rightfully suspended from school for a semester for plagiarism, I still think one of the things I was most embarrassed about during the last few years was how our chancellor and pre-Bubba/Fedora athletic department had no qualms about throwing kids under the bus to save themselves. Those kids came to UNC with the expectation that the institution would act in their best interests in lieu of parental guidance. That expectation was not met in many cases, and that was very disappointing to me as a UNC grad.
That being said, we've done an extremely thorough investigation (much more than was needed or has been done by other universities with similar issues), were very forthcoming in our dealings with the NCAA (perhaps to our own detriment) and have received significant penalties that we are currently serving.
At this point, this story is over. Let's move on. I am very excited about what Coach Fedora and our new AD are starting to build.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 12:25 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Nocera seems to know his stuff. "Well, maybe." Cheap shots abound.
Victim of NCAA being involved in a situation, academics, that is and was not under their purview.
Guilty of being complicit in submitting work that was not his but the tutor's. Guilty of plagiarism. Guilty of not doing his homework regarding courses offered at the university. Guilty of being steered by academic advisers and not standing up for himself.
UNC coaching staff and athletic department. Guilty of wasting this kids academic and athletic abilities.
Damn glad Butch and his staff are gone along with the AD!
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Posted: 2/5/2013 1:10 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Not positive, but I think he was from Tennessee.
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--- charlottheelian4 wrote:
In the last Nocera column on this subject in the Observer, Nocera came across as someone obsessed beyond fact or reason with the NCAA. Some of what he said was dead wrong. That he apparently lives near Chapel Hill is no favor to us. Wasn't McAdoo from Chapel Hill or nearby?
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Posted: 2/5/2013 1:19 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Ya Baddour not smellin like a Rose here. He appears to a AD that was ez to walk over. I can tell you form meeting/talking to Bubba, he doesnt 'appear' to be that type or personality.
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--- thguy wrote:
Damn glad Butch and his staff are gone along with the AD!
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Posted: 2/5/2013 4:22 PM
RE: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
If you didn't like the column, read the reader's comments that follow. Even Dean Smith is alleged to have steered his players into AFAM Studies.
The point about all this, from a PR perspective, is that UNC's image has been tarnished. How badly is hard to say; perhaps it's no big deal. But Carolina is not so sparkling as it once was.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 4:34 PM
RE: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Right. UNC is not as sparkling as it once was. Big deal. It's 2013 and the only thing to do is move forward with all of the new people at the top. Rehashing the same old ABC stuff is getting old.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 4:58 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Can he do it on his own is the question.
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
from Michael McAdoo:
“I would still like to get a college degree someday,” he said. “But not at the University of North Carolina. They just wasted my time.”
That stings.
Too many people on here on simply satisfied to sweep this under the rug by simply tagging all this as an 'academic' problem instead of an 'athletic' problem - end of story. I don't know if there is a real 'fix' to all the academic issues that confront a team full of ringers at a highly selective university, but I hope UNC will do at least some substantive things to make the situation a little better in the future.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 5:33 PM
RE: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
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--- P1967 wrote:
If you didn't like the column, read the reader's comments that follow. Even Dean Smith is alleged to have steered his players into AFAM Studies.
The point about all this, from a PR perspective, is that UNC's image has been tarnished. How badly is hard to say; perhaps it's no big deal. But Carolina is not so sparkling as it once was.
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dean also had guthridge check classrooms to make sure the players were in classes.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 6:46 PM
RE: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
It's easier to check classrooms for about 12 basketball players compared to 85 or 90 football players.
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--- mikeyheel wrote:
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--- P1967 wrote:
If you didn't like the column, read the reader's comments that follow. Even Dean Smith is alleged to have steered his players into AFAM Studies.
The point about all this, from a PR perspective, is that UNC's image has been tarnished. How badly is hard to say; perhaps it's no big deal. But Carolina is not so sparkling as it once was.
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dean also had guthridge check classrooms to make sure the players were in classes.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 7:23 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
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--- bartholemew wrote:
"He told his recruiters he wanted to major in criminal justice. Once he got on campus, however, he was quickly informed by his academic counselors that North Carolina didn’t have a criminal justice major."
This is rather disturbing. You'd have thought one of the coaches recruiting him would have mentioned this.
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Actually, I blame him for that. A simple search of the UNC website would have told him whether or not Carolina had the major he wanted. A little due diligence by him, or, his parents, would have saved him a lot of headache.
Thats freaking lazy-arsed dishonesty on his part, IMHO.
Last edited 2/5/2013 7:28 PM by WesternStormer
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:34 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
Agreed. The son of a school teacher would know how to log onto the Internet to research a school. As a matter of fact, it is the primary way people apply to colleges now.
Not like when I applied and you had to walk in your bare feet...up hill both ways, in the snow...150 miles from Charlotte....
Last edited 2/5/2013 9:36 PM by supergnat85
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:36 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
And it snowed during the three day walk too.
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--- supergnat85 wrote:
Agreed. The son of a school teacher would know how to log onto the Internet to research a school. As a matter of fact, it is the primary way people apply to colleges now.
Not like when I applied when you had to walk in your bare feet...up hill both ways, in the snow...150 miles from Charlotte....
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Posted: 2/5/2013 9:50 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- bartholemew wrote:
"He told his recruiters he wanted to major in criminal justice. Once he got on campus, however, he was quickly informed by his academic counselors that North Carolina didn’t have a criminal justice major."
This is rather disturbing. You'd have thought one of the coaches recruiting him would have mentioned this.
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Actually, I blame him for that. A simple search of the UNC website would have told him whether or not Carolina had the major he wanted. A little due diligence by him, or, his parents, would have saved him a lot of headache.
Thats freaking lazy-arsed dishonesty on his part, IMHO.
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I agree that McAdoo and his parents should have done their due diligence, but a recruiter sitting in their living room, hearing McAdoo say what major he was interested in, and then keeping quiet is still an embarassment to the program.
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Posted: 2/5/2013 11:29 PM
Re: NY Times op-ed column on McAdoo/UNC
And it's certainly possible the coach did not know UNC didn't have a crim justice major... which is just another problem (the coach not knowing... not that we don't have a crim justice major).
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--- bartholemew wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- bartholemew wrote:
"He told his recruiters he wanted to major in criminal justice. Once he got on campus, however, he was quickly informed by his academic counselors that North Carolina didn’t have a criminal justice major."
This is rather disturbing. You'd have thought one of the coaches recruiting him would have mentioned this.
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Actually, I blame him for that. A simple search of the UNC website would have told him whether or not Carolina had the major he wanted. A little due diligence by him, or, his parents, would have saved him a lot of headache.
Thats freaking lazy-arsed dishonesty on his part, IMHO.
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I agree that McAdoo and his parents should have done their due diligence, but a recruiter sitting in their living room, hearing McAdoo say what major he was interested in, and then keeping quiet is still an embarassment to the program.
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