Did anybody else see the major hold on the intentional safety last night? I know that holding in the end zone is a safety anyway but wondered why it wasn't flagged. It may have been planned by the O-line and if it was that is great coaching. There might need to be a rule change made if a penalty can give the team penalized an advantage. Any takers.

If called, there just would have been fewer seconds on the clock. At that point, there was no advantage for the Ravens in having it called. My guess is the Ravens staff instructed the line to hold if necessary. Really, the only chance the 49ers had was to get the ball from the punter in that situation. But you're right, that was good coaching to advise those guys to protect the punter even if you have to hold. Which isn't illegal by the way as that is a legal strategy with ramifications for getting flagged for doing it.

Yep I saw it. Great planning by the Ravens special teams. The penalty would not have changed the outcome of the play. Makes perfect sense to go out and grab them for as long as possible.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

Yep I saw it. Great planning by the Ravens special teams. The penalty would not have changed the outcome of the play. Makes perfect sense to go out and grab them for as long as possible.

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Unless the guy getting held were to make a tackle on the punter resulting in a fumble recovered by the defense. I know that is far out but anything can happen.

I also saw it, and mentioned it to my wife. Glad to know there were others!

In his discussion of the game on Grantland, Bill Barnwell uses the purposeful end zone holding as an example of John out coaching Jim . . .

"Ravens punter Sam Koch handled the situation calmly, taking as much time off the clock as possible without Orlovskying, but Harbaugh threw in a bit of dastardly brilliance: purposeful holding! Everybody in a Ravens uniform in that end zone besides Koch either tackled somebody in a 49ers uniform or started to slow dance with them while ripping their jersey off. It makes total sense: When you're already planning on committing a safety, holding in the end zone is a freebie. If the referees throw a flag for holding in that spot, they'll award the Niners a safety anyway. This is just like the Giants running 12 men onto the field last year during New England's futile final drive."

www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8...win-perspective

Knowing how to exploit the oddities in the rules is such a key skill. [I tell my law students the same thing all the time about being a lawyer -- you have to know the rules so well that you know, at all times, how to use them to your advantage].

Even though it is exploiting the rule why wasn't a flag thrown if it was so rampant. I realize it would have made no difference but that isn't for the officials to decide. I'm just curious.

It's called "swallowing one's whistle" and happens quite frequently in the last two minutes of important games.

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--- raefordfan wrote:

Even though it is exploiting the rule why wasn't a flag thrown if it was so rampant. I realize it would have made no difference but that isn't for the officials to decide. I'm just curious.

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it was so blatant that ron cherry could have seen it.

When talking about this with some guys earlier someone brought up an interesting twist I hadn't considered (and obviously neither had the 49ers. What if instead of pushing the punter out of the end zone, they had tried to push him out into the field of play? Carry him out and tackle him at the one. So bizare it would never happen but that would have given them the ball at that spot.

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--- 91HeelGrad wrote:

When talking about this with some guys earlier someone brought up an interesting twist I hadn't considered (and obviously neither had the 49ers. What if instead of pushing the punter out of the end zone, they had tried to push him out into the field of play? Carry him out and tackle him at the one. So bizare it would never happen but that would have given them the ball at that spot.

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Good observation.

Once he's being picked up and carried forward, the punter can still throw the ball out of the back of the endzone. Then it's still a safety.

To prevent this in the future, the NFL needs a rule that states that on any intentional safety inside the two minute warning, if the offense commits a penalty, no time runs off the clock. That would dissuade them from holding. Instead of running off 8 seconds by holding, they can only run off 3 or 4 by staying within the rules.

Not to be rude, but the NFL does not need a rule to change this. It was a great call by John. We need less rules not more....kind of like government.

Wrong, on the rules part. There should be a rule to prevent excessive time running.

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--- RoanokerHeel wrote:

Not to be rude, but the NFL does not need a rule to change this. It was a great call by John. We need less rules not more....kind of like government.

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"Forward progress"????

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--- 91HeelGrad wrote:

When talking about this with some guys earlier someone brought up an interesting twist I hadn't considered (and obviously neither had the 49ers. What if instead of pushing the punter out of the end zone, they had tried to push him out into the field of play? Carry him out and tackle him at the one. So bizare it would never happen but that would have given them the ball at that spot.

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wouldn't the 10 second run off killed the clock since it was the offensive team committing the foul?

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--- raefordfan wrote:

Did anybody else see the major hold on the intentional safety last night? I know that holding in the end zone is a safety anyway but wondered why it wasn't flagged. It may have been planned by the O-line and if it was that is great coaching. There might need to be a rule change made if a penalty can give the team penalized an advantage. Any takers.

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Not sure but I think it only comes into play when your behind.

Assisted forward progress.

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--- WonderWarthog wrote:

"Forward progress"????

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--- 91HeelGrad wrote:

When talking about this with some guys earlier someone brought up an interesting twist I hadn't considered (and obviously neither had the 49ers. What if instead of pushing the punter out of the end zone, they had tried to push him out into the field of play? Carry him out and tackle him at the one. So bizare it would never happen but that would have given them the ball at that spot.

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