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Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:45 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Just an FYI on the column in the Durham Herald-Sun noted by heelinhell. This poster's recounting of this column is at best a disingenuous recounting - and at worst - intentionally misleading. For example, compare the whole quote here versus heelinhell's truncated version noted below: "And when a student can get a minor in “Social and Economic Justice” without taking a course in the economics department, it’s hardly surprising that many graduates have failed to learn respect for private enterprise. Their perspectives often make them poor candidates for jobs in industry." McCrory's off-the-cuff remarks with Bill Bennett on the radio were perhaps a little too much red meat for the yahoo crowd. As this column discusses - he is not 'anti-intellectual' or 'anti liberal arts'. He is not talking about getting rid of the traditional areas of the liberal arts and humanities. This was not an attack on the University of North Carolina generally and certainly has nothing to do with athletics. His comments were part of a long-standing complaint among political conservatives that American higher education has become a closed fiefdom where only liberals need apply. And furthermore, one aspect of this situation is the existence of certain university departments or 'studies' which are little more than radicalized political or group grievance platforms dressed up in the disguise of academia - and that encouraging students to focus on these fringe subjects is really a disservice to the students and not something the taxpayers need to be subsidizing. None of this is an original idea with Pat McCroy. The idea that a taxpayer owned and subsidized university should in some way be accountable to the public may a horrifying idea to the faculty in the ivy tower, but sounds like common sense to voters and taxpayers. If you're interested - you might read her column directly. The summary from heelinhell is not a fair take on the article. www.heraldsun.com/opinion/opin...igher-education --------------------------------------------- --- heelinhell wrote: . . . She continues her snarky attack on UNC by alluding to a couple of classes and later insinuates that UNC "graduates have failed to learn respect for private enterprise. ......"
Last edited 2/1/2013 8:57 AM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:12 AM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
The 390K I made last year begs to differ.
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--- Heel4evr wrote:
I do think it is important and beneficial for a student majoring in something other than liberal arts to take some liberal arts courses in history, English, religion and so forth. I just don't think a degree in liberal arts alone offers much hope for good employment possibilities.
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--- tarheelblue8853 wrote:
So as it turns out I apparently got one of the most useless majors around with my History degree. Except I went to med school with it. Three of my best friends from school used their worthless liberal arts degrees and one got his MBA and two others are lawyers. We're definitely a bunch of bums with no prospects huh?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:23 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
--------------------------------------------- --- BethelRegiment wrote: Just an FYI on the column in the Durham Herald-Sun noted by heelinhell. This poster's recounting of this column is at best a disingenuous recounting - and at worst - intentionally misleading. For example, compare the whole quote here versus heelinhell's truncated version noted below: "And when a student can get a minor in “Social and Economic Justice” without taking a course in the economics department, it’s hardly surprising that many graduates have failed to learn respect for private enterprise. Their perspectives often make them poor candidates for jobs in industry." McCrory's off-the-cuff remarks with Bill Bennett on the radio were perhaps a little too much red meat for the yahoo crowd. As this column discusses - he is not 'anti-intellectual' or 'anti liberal arts'. He is not talking about getting rid of the traditional areas of the liberal arts and humanities. This was not an attack on the University of North Carolina generally and certainly has nothing to do with athletics. His comments were part of a long-standing complaint among political conservatives that American higher education has become a closed fiefdom where only liberals need apply. And furthermore, one aspect of this situation is the existence of certain university departments or 'studies' which are little more than radicalized political or group grievance platforms dressed up in the disguise of academia - and that encouraging students to focus on these fringe subjects is really a disservice to the students and not something the taxpayers need to be subsidizing. None of this is an original idea with Pat McCroy. The idea that a taxpayer owned and subsidized university should in some way be accountable to the public may a horrifying idea to the faculty in the ivy tower, but sounds like common sense to voters and taxpayers. If you're interested - you might read her column directly. The summary from heelinhell is not a fair take on the article. www.heraldsun.com/opinion/opin...igher-education --------------------------------------------- --- heelinhell wrote: . . . She continues her snarky attack on UNC by alluding to a couple of classes and later insinuates that UNC "graduates have failed to learn respect for private enterprise. ......" --------------------------------------------- Thank you for the link.The entire editorial is far more damning than my edited version. I encourage everyone to read it and decide whether my portrayal of the editorial is fair. Like I said before, I am confident that any reasonable person will recognize that the focus was only on UNC and the focus was not flattering.
Last edited 2/1/2013 9:25 AM by heelinhell
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:34 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
The focus of her column was specifically aimed at the flakier, radicalized end of elite universities such as UNC. It was not an across-the-board 'attack' on the University or on the more traditional areas of the liberal arts.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:38 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
The focus of her column was specifically aimed at the flakier, radicalized end of elite universities such as UNC. It was not an across-the-board 'attack' on the University or on the more traditional areas of the liberal arts.
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So I guess you are saying that UNC is the only elite public university in the state.
And why focus on the elite university that has a top ranking ? Why not focus on the mediocre liberal arts curricula at universities such as ncst ?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:55 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
The GOV backing off a bit due to outbreak of protest about his comments. www.journalnow.com/news/state_...1a4bcf6878.html |
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:57 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
'Elite' is a loaded term that makes you sound like a snob is use it.
In terms of any ranking system for universities in the United States of which I am aware - UNC-Chapel Hill is only state university in NC that ranks highly in any of these surveys. That is a fact - to answer your question.
In the immortal words of Everette Withers - UNC is the flagship campus of the UNC system and as such carries a higher profile than all the other branches of university system and as such, the only UNC system component that would have resonance with national or state-wide radio or newspaper audience - which is why UNC would naturally be the focus of the Governor's original comments and this woman's column.
The point of both the Governor's comments and this column was not to ignite an across-the-board 'attack on UNC or liberal arts education generally or anything to do with UNC sports. It was more simply and specifically a call for the University to rein in some of the flakier and purely politicized aspects of the University. Anyone who has ever attended UNC knows fully well that some of this stuff exists. I don't think most of us would think any of it is central (or essential) to the overall operation of the University, but it makes an easy target for politicians and pundits like Bill Bennett.
The Governor's comments in this regard were a little heavy-handed - ergo the need for this column to expand and clarify his remarks. None of this amounts to 'picking on' UNC for UNC's sake -- it is simply a heads up that there is some accountability to the taxpayer and the public and the University needs to be a little more value conscious about how it spends the taxpayer's resources.
addendum - The column references some course on Dogs and society. My daughter - now a Veterinarian - took that class or something close to it. There were assigned readings on beastiality. I'm almost positive my recollection is correct on this.
I'm not sure how much our Governor needs to be worrying about beastiality and it's role in the curriculm at UNC -- but you would also like to think there were some grown-ups in charge at Chapel Hill that would use a little judgement and maybe realize that there were higher uses of the faculty's and student's time than studying about beastility. And of course, the only way to get anyone's attention is to give them a little whack where it hurts - in the budget.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
So I guess you are saying that UNC is the only elite public university in the state.
And why focus on the elite university that has a top ranking ? Why not focus on the mediocre liberal arts curricula at universities such as ncst ?
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Last edited 2/1/2013 10:17 AM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:20 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
'Elite' is a loaded term that makes you sound like a snob is use it.
In terms of any ranking system for universities in the United States of which I am aware - UNC-Chapel Hill is only state university in NC that ranks highly in any of these surveys. That is a fact - to answer your question.
In the immortal words of Everette Withers - UNC is the flagship campus of the UNC system and as such carries a higher profile than all the other branches of university system and as such, the only UNC system component that would have resonance with national or state-wide radio or newspaper audience - which is why UNC would naturally be the focus of the Governor's original comments and this woman's column.
The point of both the Governor's comments and this column were not to ignite an across-the-board 'attack on UNC or liberal arts education generally or anything to do with UNC sports. It was specifically a call for the University to rein in some of the flakier and purely politicized aspects of the University, which anyone who has ever attended UNC knows fully well exist.
The Governor's comments in this regard were a little clumsy - ergo the need for this column to expand and clarify this point. None of this amounts to 'picking on' UNC for UNC's sake -- it is simply a heads up that there is some accountability to the taxpayer and the public and the University needs to be a little more value conscious about how it spends the taxpayer's resources.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
So I guess you are saying that UNC is the only elite public university in the state.
And why focus on the elite university that has a top ranking ? Why not focus on the mediocre liberal arts curricula at universities such as ncst ?
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1) your post introduced the term "elite".
2)It is well known that the Pope Foundation has been seeking to "conservatize" academics at UNC for years
3)I am a graduate of UNC. I am familiar with the curriculum. The "flakier" courses are negligible. This a craven straw man argument that Pope,Shaw, and McCrory are erecting to justify their real agenda
4) Concern about a wise use of state resources and accountability is another straw man. UNC year in and year out is considered the greatest value in the country for getting a college education. The state legislature should put more resources into UNC. There are very few entities that distinguish our state. UNC is one of them. And yet, these new yahoos in Raleigh are dead set on turning gold into brass.
5)I have made no argument that anti-intellectual ideologues are out to get UNC athletics. In my opinion, the motive is to justify the transfer of state resources away from UNC and to make significant changes in its curriculum. However, as the academic reputation of UNC sinks toward the level of ncst and ecu over time, it will affect athletics.
Last edited 2/1/2013 10:21 AM by heelinhell
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- athfix
- All-ACC
- 846 posts this site
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:35 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I think Joseph Goebbels used the word elite also.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:47 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
1. I did. I'm not sure what your point is.
2. And the Colorado River will carve itself all the way through the earth and start leaking out in China by the time they have any success in their plans. I wish them the best of luck in their efforts.
Gosh - if they could have some success in this regard though -- UNC could become the Fox News of universities - do like Roger Ailes and appeal to that niche market equal to half of the country that has been ignored by everyone else.
3. I agree with you. But as a parent and a taxpayer, it would be nice to see some evidence of a little adult supervision in Chapel Hill on occasion.
4. If there is some broader agenda at play to significantly cut the state appropriation specifically to UNC-Chapel Hill for some reason - that is beyond my awareness of 'doings' in Raleigh. And I'm not sure I have an opinion on the matter - not ever having thought about it before this instance.
5. As much as I've enjoyed UNC's championships in the past, I would not want to sacrifice UNC's academic standing simply to try and duplicate the sports success of recent champions like 'Bama and Kentucky by lowering our academic reputation to their level. So if that what these Republicans are up to - I like to win, but perhaps not at that cost.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
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1) your post introduced the term "elite".
2)It is well known that the Pope Foundation has been seeking to "conservatize" academics at UNC for years
3)I am a graduate of UNC. I am familiar with the curriculum. The "flakier" courses are negligible. This a craven straw man argument that Pope,Shaw, and McCrory are erecting to justify their real agenda
4) Concern about a wise use of state resources and accountability is another straw man. UNC year in and year out is considered the greatest value in the country for getting a college education. The state legislature should put more resources into UNC. There are very few entities that distinguish our state. UNC is one of them. And yet, these new yahoos in Raleigh are dead set on turning gold into brass.
5)I have made no argument that anti-intellectual ideologues are out to get UNC athletics. In my opinion, the motive is to justify the transfer of state resources away from UNC and to make significant changes in its curriculum. However, as the academic reputation of UNC sinks toward the level of ncst and ecu over time, it will affect athletics.
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Last edited 2/1/2013 10:52 AM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:55 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
1. I did. I'm not sure what your point is.
2. And the Colorado River will carve itself all the way through the earth and start leaking out in China by the time they have any success in their plans. I wish them the best of luck in their efforts.
Gosh - if they could have some success in this regard though -- UNC could become the Fox News of universities - do like Roger Ailes and appeal to that niche market equal to half of the country that has been ignored by everyone else.
3. I agree with you. But as a parent and a taxpayer, it would be nice to see some evidence of a little adult supervision in Chapel Hill on occasion.
4. If there is some broader agenda at play to significantly cut the state appropriation specifically to UNC-Chapel Hill for some reason - that is beyond my awareness of 'doings' in Raleigh. And I'm not sure I have an opinion on the matter - not ever having thought about it before this instance.
5. As much as I've enjoyed UNC's championships in the past, I would not want to sacrifice UNC's academic standing simply to try and duplicate the sports success of recent champions like 'Bama and Kentucky by lowering our academic reputation to their level. So if that what these Republicans are up to - I like to win, but perhaps not at that cost.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
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1) your post introduced the term "elite".
2)It is well known that the Pope Foundation has been seeking to "conservatize" academics at UNC for years
3)I am a graduate of UNC. I am familiar with the curriculum. The "flakier" courses are negligible. This a craven straw man argument that Pope,Shaw, and McCrory are erecting to justify their real agenda
4) Concern about a wise use of state resources and accountability is another straw man. UNC year in and year out is considered the greatest value in the country for getting a college education. The state legislature should put more resources into UNC. There are very few entities that distinguish our state. UNC is one of them. And yet, these new yahoos in Raleigh are dead set on turning gold into brass.
5)I have made no argument that anti-intellectual ideologues are out to get UNC athletics. In my opinion, the motive is to justify the transfer of state resources away from UNC and to make significant changes in its curriculum. However, as the academic reputation of UNC sinks toward the level of ncst and ecu over time, it will affect athletics.
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Read the first line in your previous post. I was responding to your characterization of me as a snob.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:58 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I'm sorry if what I wrote was unclear. My intent was not to refer to you personally as a snob. I'm not sure what my point was or if I had a point - but I know it was not aimed at you personally and apologize if you took it that way.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
Read the first line in your previous post. I was responding to your characterization of me as a snob.
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Last edited 2/1/2013 10:59 AM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 11:15 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I cannot fathom any UNC alum defending the Gov or the Pope Foundation on this issue. I guess you're also ok with removing the words "priceless gem" from our song.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 11:33 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Do you think the UNC curriculum should include coursework on beastiality ?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:12 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
Do you think the UNC curriculum should include coursework on beastiality ?
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Does it ? And if so, is it an entire course or part of a course and in which department ?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:29 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- HarborDocks wrote:
I cannot fathom any UNC alum defending the Gov or the Pope Foundation on this issue. I guess you're also ok with removing the words "priceless gem" from our song.
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I don't think there are any UNC alums defending the Pope Foundation or the Gov. I think it is an amalgam of various ABC folks...
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Posted: 2/1/2013 1:01 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I think the study of social taboos like bestiality are an appropriate part of the curriculum for certain sociology, anthropology and history classes. Indeed, I think that the discovery channel ran a whole series of social taboos including an episode on bestiality.
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
Do you think the UNC curriculum should include coursework on beastiality ?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 1:32 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
I'm sorry if what I wrote was unclear. My intent was not to refer to you personally as a snob. I'm not sure what my point was or if I had a point - but I know it was not aimed at you personally and apologize if you took it that way.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
Read the first line in your previous post. I was responding to your characterization of me as a snob.
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No apology necessary...we're good
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Posted: 2/1/2013 1:40 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I just assumed this started with the Governor just playing to the audience on some brief radio bit, but if there is more behind all this than this litte radio deal and the associated Durham newspaper column to help the Governor extract his foot from his mouth -- then that is beyond my knowledge of Raleigh politics and I'll let all of you sort that out.
I didn't think the column in the Durham paper was anything shocking. The article itself is really focused on the fringes of certain aspect of universities like UNC - and by itself couldn't be fairly interpreted as a broadside attack on the University or liberal arts education in a more general way. There is a degree of flakey nonsense and purely politicized aspects of the curriculum that is tolerated in Chapel Hill and most universities. I assume it is simply part of the atmosphere like oxygen and wouldn't presume much could or will ever be done about it. If the Pope Foundation (whoever the he11 that is) wants to try - more power to 'em.
The School of Public Health is a pretty liberal place and even for that, we had one professor who was so far out there that they eventually took his class away from him. It's almost impossible to imagine how far to the left you have to be to be too left wing for the School of Public Health.
The little bit on beastiliaty was a class or two and some assigned readings - it may have been in the 'dog' course mentioned in the Durham newspaper column. I distinctly remember my daughter showing me the paper that was assigned. It's not that big a deal - but it's the kind of thing that a little more adult supervision would have headed off at the pass. You know - elevate our game - let's not waste the student's time on garbage like this. It was one of these classes that are nothing more than some assistant professor rehashing his disstertation.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
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--- HarborDocks wrote:
I cannot fathom any UNC alum defending the Gov or the Pope Foundation on this issue. I guess you're also ok with removing the words "priceless gem" from our song.
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I don't think there are any UNC alums defending the Pope Foundation or the Gov. I think it is an amalgam of various ABC folks...
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Last edited 2/1/2013 1:42 PM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:31 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Good points Bethel, but I think you are wasting your time using logic here. Did you go to the School of Public Health for a graduate degree? Me too.
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
I just assumed this started with the Governor just playing to the audience on some brief radio bit, but if there is more behind all this than this litte radio deal and the associated Durham newspaper column to help the Governor extract his foot from his mouth -- then that is beyond my knowledge of Raleigh politics and I'll let all of you sort that out.
I didn't think the column in the Durham paper was anything shocking. The article itself is really focused on the fringes of certain aspect of universities like UNC - and by itself couldn't be fairly interpreted as a broadside attack on the University or liberal arts education in a more general way. There is a degree of flakey nonsense and purely politicized aspects of the curriculum that is tolerated in Chapel Hill and most universities. I assume it is simply part of the atmosphere like oxygen and wouldn't presume much could or will ever be done about it. If the Pope Foundation (whoever the he11 that is) wants to try - more power to 'em.
The School of Public Health is a pretty liberal place and even for that, we had one professor who was so far out there that they eventually took his class away from him. It's almost impossible to imagine how far to the left you have to be to be too left wing for the School of Public Health.
The little bit on beastiliaty was a class or two and some assigned readings - it may have been in the 'dog' course mentioned in the Durham newspaper column. I distinctly remember my daughter showing me the paper that was assigned. It's not that big a deal - but it's the kind of thing that a little more adult supervision would have headed off at the pass. You know - elevate our game - let's not waste the student's time on garbage like this. It was one of these classes that are nothing more than some assistant professor rehashing his disstertation.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
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--- HarborDocks wrote:
I cannot fathom any UNC alum defending the Gov or the Pope Foundation on this issue. I guess you're also ok with removing the words "priceless gem" from our song.
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I don't think there are any UNC alums defending the Pope Foundation or the Gov. I think it is an amalgam of various ABC folks...
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Last edited 2/1/2013 3:13 PM by Heel4evr
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:33 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
BSPH here.
and I'll have to admit there may be more behind this that meets the eye or ear just from the Governor's little radio bit. I'm sure there are a lot of conservatives with a hard on for the People's Republic of Chapel Hill. William Buckley wrote 'God and Man at Yale' in 195? - and what's changed ? Classes on Tranvestite Lesbian Beastiality give conservatives something to gripe about ever since the Russkies ran out of money for rocket fuel for their ICBMs.
Last edited 2/1/2013 2:39 PM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:37 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Bethel,
The Pope Foundation is a 501(c) organization that funds various conservative think tanks and has sought to influence the curriculum at UNC (and only UNC) for years.He is the NC version of the Koch Brothers and has financed many conservative candidates,including McCrory. While Art Pope has made some substantial contributions to UNC, these contributions come with strings attached.
Now Art Pope is in control of the state budget after being appointed by McCrory to be asst. budget director(McCrory is technically the budget director). Indeed, many fear that Pope is actually the de facto governor.
The BOG is now controlled by republicans. Both houses are now controlled by republicans.
If republican controlled government wants to take UNC down,it certainly has the power to do so. We will know whether my suspicions are nothing more than the rantings of a guy in a tin foil hat once we see UNC's budget this spring.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 2:47 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
and on a scale of 0 - 10 how much success have they had ?
I bet if you had an alarm system in every UNC classroom that would blast whenever it detected a Republican, the only time it would ever go off was when it was time to change batteries.
And if you really thought about it, the way UNC could really clean up is to become the one and only major university to intentionally appeal to conservatives. Pull a Roger Ailes and appeal to the 50% niche market that voted for Romney and UNC would have that whole crowd all to itself. UNC could become the conservative Harvard, Berkely, MIT, Johns Hopkins and Stanford all rolled into one. But - no - let's just leave things alone and be one more school like everybody else.
Instead of fighting these Pope people, you ought to be helping. There's 1,000 liberal universities out there. UNC could be unique.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
Bethel,
The Pope Foundation is a 501(c) organization that funds various conservative think tanks and has sought to influence the curriculum at UNC (and only UNC) for years. .................
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Last edited 2/1/2013 2:57 PM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:06 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
First, I dont think schools are conservative or liberal. The are educational institutions. The leaders of the institutions may or may not hold liberal or conservative views and that may color how one views the institution, but the institution itself, being an inanimate entity, is neither liberal or conservative.
Are you suggesting we get rid of the faculty members that are liberal and replace them with some profs from Wingate or Liberty Baptist in order to appease the governor and get money? If that is the plan its very short sited.
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
and on a scale of 0 - 10 how much success have they had ?
I bet if you had an alarm system in every UNC classroom that would blast whenever it detected a Republican, the only time it would ever go off was when it was time to change batteries.
And if you really thought about it, the way UNC could really clean up is to become the one and only major university to intentionally appeal to conservatives. Pull a Roger Ailes and appeal to the 50% niche market that voted for Romney and UNC would have that whole crowd all to itself. UNC could become the conservative Harvard, Berkely, MIT, Johns Hopkins and Stanford all rolled into one. But - no - let's just leave things alone and be one more school like everybody else.
Instead of fighting these Pope people, you ought to be helping. There's 1,000 liberal universities out there. UNC could be unique.
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--- heelinhell wrote:
Bethel,
The Pope Foundation is a 501(c) organization that funds various conservative think tanks and has sought to influence the curriculum at UNC (and only UNC) for years. .................
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:17 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Bricks and grass and trees are not what make UNC a university - it's the faculty - the people. And the faculty at UNC, like almost all universities, is almost uniformly liberal in political outlook. In many areas of the curriculum it doesn't make any difference - there's not a liberal philosophy of organic chemistry to my knowledge. In other areas - it is liberal in a stifling sense of the term and frankly, hearing only one viewpoint all the time makes for a less enriching experience for the students.
I graduated from UNC more than 30 years ago; it was true back then and if anything, it is just as true today - if not more so. It didn't bother me back then, it doesn't really bother me today - though I do think the students would have a more interesting education if they were to open things up a tad. But I have no expectations that will ever happen and I would bet everything I could raise all day long on the liberal faculty outlasting any Republican Governor, Republican General Assembly majority or any Pope Foundation.
If any major university were to really venture out and make an explicit appeal to conservatives - they would have a completely free field of fire and would clean up just like Fox TV News. I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen.
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--- Heel1963 wrote:
First, I dont think schools are conservative or liberal. The are educational institutions. The leaders of the institutions may or may not hold liberal or conservative views and that may color how one views the institution, but the institution itself, being an inanimate entity, is neither liberal or conservative.
Are you suggesting we get rid of the faculty members that are liberal and replace them with some profs from Wingate or Liberty Baptist in order to appease the governor and get money? If that is the plan its very short sited.
Last edited 2/1/2013 3:20 PM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:26 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Since this is the football board, I assume that at some point in this topic, someone had a concern that Art Pope was going after UNC athletics. Some posters have actually said so. Maybe so, but why would he want to destroy a football program that he has contributed millions to? Just doesn't make sense to me. To the contrary, maybe he is taking aim at the liberal, elitist UNC faculty that would like nothing better than to see UNC football destroyed.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:36 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Bethel,
The Pope Foundation has not had much success to date. That is because the foundation has never controlled the state budget and the last time republicans held both houses was during Reconstruction...
I agree that most UNC faculty are liberal, and that is probably true for 90% of colleges in this country and around the world. I wonder why that is (not really).
UNC is doing just fine. It is a top 5 public university. It is affordable and offers students great value. It receives more out of state applications than in-state applications which is a tribute to its national reputation. It turns out doctors,lawyers,nurses,and Rhodes Scholars. I would think that our state leaders would want to build on UNC's incredible success rather than seek to turn it into a mediocre university. We already have a few of those.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:45 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- Heel4evr wrote:
Since this is the football board, I assume that at some point in this topic, someone had a concern that Art Pope was going after UNC athletics. Some posters have actually said so. Maybe so, but why would he want to destroy a football program that he has contributed millions to? Just doesn't make sense to me. To the contrary, maybe he is taking aim at the liberal, elitist UNC faculty that would like nothing better than to see UNC football destroyed.
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No one is saying Pope wants to destroy football,he wants further his political agenda. Pope wants to influence how UNC operates,and that is why he contributes millions. He does not like the mission of the university.He loathes the faculty. He does not like the students. He is a Jesse Helms clone(although to his credit, I have never known him to call UNC a haven for communists and that it is a zoo in need of a fence).
My contention is that UNC is a gem and that many athletes are drawn to UNC because of its academic reputation. UNC does not need to lose athletes because our academic reputation has declined.
When a university declines it affects the entire university, including athletics.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 3:45 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Republicans - Pat McCory will talk a big game on the radio - how he's going to rein in the Lesbian Beastiality class, but Republicans can spend money just about as fast as the Democrats. And if a few people in Chapel Hill had a little fire lit under them to cut out some of the crap and focus on what they should be doing - probably wouldn't hurt.
The University has been around for 215 years; I suspect when all is said and done - more will be said than done.
[What do I know - I've never heard of this Art Pope or his foundation. He should donate his money to Nido Quebein in High Point - Nido would know what do with it.]
Last edited 2/1/2013 3:58 PM by BethelRegiment
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Posted: 2/1/2013 4:01 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
heelinhell, This is from the UNC Tech thread:
"And here too, as it directly relates to our football team...Just saying.
Hiding from it ain't gonna make it go away, uncomfortable as it may be for you and others here to acknowledge that Art Pope/The Gov/ Reps in Raleigh would love nothing more than to see UNC athletics taken down several pegs."
If all this McCrory/Pope stuff doesn't involve athletics and football in particular, why is it being discussed on the football board?
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--- heelinhell wrote:
No one is saying Pope wants to destroy football,he wants further his political agenda. Pope wants to influence how UNC operates,and that is why he contributes millions. He does not like the mission of the university.He loathes the faculty. He does not like the students. He is a Jesse Helms clone(although to his credit, I have never known him to call UNC a haven for communists and that it is a zoo in need of a fence).
My contention is that UNC is a gem and that many athletes are drawn to UNC because of its academic reputation. UNC does not need to lose athletes because our academic reputation has declined.
When a university declines it affects the entire university, including athletics.
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Last edited 2/1/2013 4:04 PM by Heel4evr
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Posted: 2/1/2013 5:58 PM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
That was mine, "4evrrrr", and here's my previous one re how this relates to football to those who prefer to pretend it doesn't:
"It doesn't matter which way you voted, the fact is the Gov slandered OUR Athletic Dept to make a political point. You don't think that relates to our football program? You don't think Fedora knows we have a new Governor who has made it clear he will use UNC athletics to make a broader political point, aided by the State contingent in local gvt? How about other schools who might be interested in our coach? Think they won't be bringing that quote up when they come calling? You think the Gov's public slap makes Bubba's job easier? This topic is more than appropriate for the football forum, even if it makes some uncomfortable that the guy they helped put in office is coming after the school they purport to support."
Feel free to take the opposite view, "4evr"--that a governor of a state slandering the flagship public university and it's athletic department is a GOOD thing for the school, or for the state for that matter. Please enlighten us how Fedora or Roy Williams was actually thrilled that the Governor called them out, not by name but by association. Make your case, if you can, other than saying that people who are bothered by this are just jealous of Art Pope's money. I'm glad our many, many hard working, blue collar fans who maybe didn't go to UNC but love the school and the teams for representing our state as they do, get to see the attitude of a real UNC supporter like you.
The Gov's sweaty upper lip since he made those comments and the treads as he backtracks would probably suggest he is realizing the price he is going to pay for making Art Pope his Budget Director.
And btw, no one suggested they are going to destroy athletics. Pope will use UNC and the Ath. Dept, though, for his own interest, as he has no real allegiance to any entity other than himself.
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--- Heel4evr wrote:
heelinhell, This is from the UNC Tech thread:
"And here too, as it directly relates to our football team...Just saying.
Hiding from it ain't gonna make it go away, uncomfortable as it may be for you and others here to acknowledge that Art Pope/The Gov/ Reps in Raleigh would love nothing more than to see UNC athletics taken down several pegs."
If all this McCrory/Pope stuff doesn't involve athletics and football in particular, why is it being discussed on the football board?
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--- heelinhell wrote:
No one is saying Pope wants to destroy football,he wants further his political agenda. Pope wants to influence how UNC operates,and that is why he contributes millions. He does not like the mission of the university.He loathes the faculty. He does not like the students. He is a Jesse Helms clone(although to his credit, I have never known him to call UNC a haven for communists and that it is a zoo in need of a fence).
My contention is that UNC is a gem and that many athletes are drawn to UNC because of its academic reputation. UNC does not need to lose athletes because our academic reputation has declined.
When a university declines it affects the entire university, including athletics.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 7:13 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
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--- BethelRegiment wrote:
He should donate his money to Nido Quebein in High Point - Nido would know what do with it.
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Nido was a smooth political type even when he was going to Mount Olive College. The ladies seemed to really like him then too.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:30 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I was wondering who brought our average down.
Hope you do a little better this year.
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--- Heel1963 wrote:
The 390K I made last year begs to differ.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:56 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I agree. I would hate to live on that.
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--- WonderWarthog wrote:
I was wondering who brought our average down.
Hope you do a little better this year.
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--- Heel1963 wrote:
The 390K I made last year begs to differ.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:27 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
One of he highest average salaries is sales. My experience is that about 70% are liberal arts majors. It sucks but someone has to do it.
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--- Heel4evr wrote:
I agree. I would hate to live on that.
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--- WonderWarthog wrote:
I was wondering who brought our average down.
Hope you do a little better this year.
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--- Heel1963 wrote:
The 390K I made last year begs to differ.
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Last edited 2/2/2013 9:40 AM by TboneTarheel
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Posted: 2/1/2013 11:03 PM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
And this shows they're working as baristas at Starbucks: www.theatlantic.com/business/a...yed-how/256237/--------------------------------------------- --- jsb23nc wrote: Again, please cite a study. Unemployment rates on the macro level have nothing to do with your claim. Besides, this shows that those with a bachelor's degree have a 95% employment rate: www.ibtimes.com/despite-unempl...ave-jobs-313842--------------------------------------------- |
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Posted: 2/2/2013 12:30 AM
RE: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Louisville resident and fan here who graduated from WCU many years ago. Do they still teach calculus based on set theory? Do they still use 2 pages of calculations to prove 0=1 or 1 doesn't equal 1? They used to say math was considered a pure science and it wasn't necessary to have practical applications. WCU was basically there to turn out teachers. Thus math grads went back to high school to teach this crap to the high school's brightest pupils. Is it any wonder they can't find jobs?
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Posted: 2/2/2013 10:03 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
dadgumgame. You seem to think that someone that has a view on a subject that differs from yours is somehow not a UNC supporter. As I have said before, I will put my UNC credentials of any and all kinds that you would like to evaluate up against yours any day. Shouldn't accepting that someone might not have the same thoughts on a subject be part of this "critical thinking" process that supposedly goes along with a liberal arts degree? You didn't say that Art Pope and the gov want to DESTROY UNC athletics, but you did say "Hiding from it ain't gonna make it go away, uncomfortable as it may be for you and others here to acknowledge that Art Pope/The Gov/ Reps in Raleigh would love nothing more than to see UNC athletics taken down several pegs." You said that not me.
I personally do not think Art Pope wants to destroy UNC athletics, or even take them down several pegs as you stated. I do think he might have an axe to grind with the liberal, elitist faculty that would love to take down UNC football.
And now you are introducing different classes of UNC fans into the discussion? What's next, race?
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--- dadgumgame wrote:
That was mine, "4evrrrr"
I'm glad our many, many hard working, blue collar fans who maybe didn't go to UNC but love the school and the teams for representing our state as they do, get to see the attitude of a real UNC supporter like you.
The Gov's sweaty upper lip since he made those comments and the treads as he backtracks would probably suggest he is realizing the price he is going to pay for making Art Pope his Budget Director.
And btw, no one suggested they are going to destroy athletics. Pope will use UNC and the Ath. Dept, though, for his own interest, as he has no real allegiance to any entity other than himself.
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--- Heel4evr wrote:
heelinhell, This is from the UNC Tech thread:
dadgumgame wrote:
"And here too, as it directly relates to our football team...Just saying.
Hiding from it ain't gonna make it go away, uncomfortable as it may be for you and others here to acknowledge that Art Pope/The Gov/ Reps in Raleigh would love nothing more than to see UNC athletics taken down several pegs."
If all this McCrory/Pope stuff doesn't involve athletics and football in particular, why is it being discussed on the football board?
Last edited 2/2/2013 3:29 PM by Heel4evr
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Posted: 2/3/2013 12:38 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
I have read of similar sentiments and government views before regarding elitism and wanting more technicians and mechanics.
It was in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich.
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Posted: 2/3/2013 8:56 AM
Re: Is the UNC witch hunt about to spread ?
Last edited 2/3/2013 10:19 AM by Heel1963
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