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RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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Posted: 1/30/2013 9:35 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Posted: 1/30/2013 10:03 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Yes but he is a yankee.
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:56 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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Yeah, and I read somewhere that Delany is a UNC grad. Go figure...
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:47 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Stormer, the only way for Slive to keep the B1G out of the south east is to either bolster the ACC some how, or take in Miami, FSU,GT, and the NCAA schools. The latter would create a smaller financial pie since two of those states are already SEC states.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 12:54 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Stormer, the only way for Slive to keep the B1G out of the south east is to either bolster the ACC some how, or take in Miami, FSU,GT, and the NCAA schools. The latter would create a smaller financial pie since two of those states are already SEC states.
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What does this even mean? The NCAA schools? Miami, FSU and GT would go bankrupt trying to travel to the midwest and arctic circle.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 2:58 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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Yes but he is a yankee.
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Good Lord, now don't you start in with the 'yankee' nonsense, too...LOL. :D
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Posted: 1/31/2013 3:04 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Stormer, the only way for Slive to keep the B1G out of the south east is to either bolster the ACC some how, or take in Miami, FSU,GT, and the NCAA schools. The latter would create a smaller financial pie since two of those states are already SEC states.
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What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 3:13 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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Yes but he is a yankee.
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Good Lord, now don't you start in with the 'yankee' nonsense, too...LOL. :D
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Sorry. i had to.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 3:17 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 3:17 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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Yes but he is a yankee.
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Good Lord, now don't you start in with the 'yankee' nonsense, too...LOL. :D
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Sorry. i had to.
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Dayum, phat. You're gonna get this thread locked for sure now...lol.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 4:40 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Good points Stormer, but my point was more about what Slive's actual options to "defend" the southern areas that would not cost member schools money. Right now with GT in the ACC, they are not costing the SEC any money. If they join the SEC, now you have 2 schools in one state sharing viewer dollars. Other than going to 22 teams and having per school shares cut. I am not sure what he can do for total protection.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 5:13 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Good points Stormer, but my point was more about what Slive's actual options to "defend" the southern areas that would not cost member schools money. Right now with GT in the ACC, they are not costing the SEC any money. If they join the SEC, now you have 2 schools in one state sharing viewer dollars. Other than going to 22 teams and having per school shares cut. I am not sure what he can do for total protection.
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Slive can't do anything to keep the BIG10 out (assuming they find willing members). The SEC cannot accept new members from any southern states except Virginia and North Carolina without duplicating markets. And Slive's not willing to do that, so he'll stand by and watch the BIG10 do whatever they want.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 5:57 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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Seems like I read on another board (maybe Wisconsin's) that had the B10 known for certain that Nebraska was losing their AAU status, the league would not have invited them. I am not 100 percent for sure on that, but, that is a huge deal to the league's schools. And, I could see that playing out exactly that way.
I do wonder who would be the 'right' school that would make the B10 willing to waive their AAU requirement. FSU is the school most mentioned, and, I bet that both parties would make it work.
JMHO, but, UNC, UVA, Tech, and, FSU were going to the B10, I'd want Clemson to come with us, too. I hate that Carolina plays them and FSU so seldomly now.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:13 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Good points Stormer, but my point was more about what Slive's actual options to "defend" the southern areas that would not cost member schools money. Right now with GT in the ACC, they are not costing the SEC any money. If they join the SEC, now you have 2 schools in one state sharing viewer dollars. Other than going to 22 teams and having per school shares cut. I am not sure what he can do for total protection.
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Slive can't do anything to keep the BIG10 out (assuming they find willing members). The SEC cannot accept new members from any southern states except Virginia and North Carolina without duplicating markets. And Slive's not willing to do that, so he'll stand by and watch the BIG10 do whatever they want.
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I respectfully disagree, Dirk. Mike Slive will not just sit by, and, watch Jim Delany do as he pleases with regards to alignment. Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and, Bama have all been pressing Slive to go after UNC and UVA. If he gets both, then Delany's plan will change. Because those are the two schools he wants for the B10, too.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:24 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
I respectfully disagree, Dirk. Mike Slive will not just sit by, and, watch Jim Delany do as he pleases with regards to alignment. Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and, Bama have all been pressing Slive to go after UNC and UVA. If he gets both, then Delany's plan will change. Because those are the two schools he wants for the B10, too.
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I agree with you and worded my post poorly.
Yes, absolutely UVA and UNC are the Slive's top desire to join the SEC. But as has been stated here and on the UVA board, UNC and UVA aren't going to leave the ACC first despite the rumors. So short of that, the remaining universities in question all do share an SEC market already.
And if by chance Delany did manage to woo UVA, I'm sure the SEC would not have the ability to swing their preference to the SEC. Academics, academics, academics...
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Posted: 1/31/2013 6:55 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
I respectfully disagree, Dirk. Mike Slive will not just sit by, and, watch Jim Delany do as he pleases with regards to alignment. Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and, Bama have all been pressing Slive to go after UNC and UVA. If he gets both, then Delany's plan will change. Because those are the two schools he wants for the B10, too.
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I agree with you and worded my post poorly.
Yes, absolutely UVA and UNC are the Slive's top desire to join the SEC. But as has been stated here and on the UVA board, UNC and UVA aren't going to leave the ACC first despite the rumors. So short of that, the remaining universities in question all do share an SEC market already.
And if by chance Delany did manage to woo UVA, I'm sure the SEC would not have the ability to swing their preference to the SEC. Academics, academics, academics...
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Oh, if UVA were to select the B10, Slive's masterplan has to be altered a bit, for sure. If he can still get UNC, he could then grab VPI, and, call it good.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 7:56 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
There are only two schools that actually had AAU status when they joined the B1G, PSU and UNL. Delaney has been quoted saying that AAU membership is not a must and exceptions could be made. I believe at this point there are only two schools that meet this exception. Notre Dame and FSU. Academically FSU is on the rise so I think they get a pass.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:14 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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If the B1G takes UVA, UNC, GT & FSU, wouldn't they be getting two from contiguous states (UVA & UNC) and two from states that are not from contiguous states (GT & FSU)?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:21 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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If the B1G takes UVA, UNC, GT & FSU, wouldn't they be getting two from contiguous states (UVA & UNC) and two from states that are not from contiguous states (GT & FSU)?
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Nc has borders with GA. Ga with Florida.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 8:39 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
I've always said that Slive's best move may be to take UVA, VT, UNC, and NCSU as a group and go to 18 schools while locking the South down for good. True, it would be a doubling down on two states but they are two states with a combined 17 million residents. That equates to more than 4 million residents per school. The whole state of Alabama barely has more than 4 million people. Might those numbers work if it means keeping the B1G out of the Southeast? Perhaps. This is an arms race after all.
Taking those 4 as a group would effectively lock the B1G out of the Southeast. They might still want Duke or GT but their contiguous state rule would be shot.
Taking those 4 as a group also effectively neuters any legislative roadblocks in Virginia and North Carolina. Duke has little sway in the NC General Assembly since they are a private school.
Actually, a combination of UVA, UNC, Duke, and VT would be better since Duke is more of a national brand than NCSU and could provide an intriguing element as part of an academic grouping with UVA, UNC, and Vanderbilt and as part of a basketball grouping with UNC, Kentucky, and Florida. But I can't see how legislators in NC will allow NCSU to die on the vine if they are left out of this grouping.
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
I respectfully disagree, Dirk. Mike Slive will not just sit by, and, watch Jim Delany do as he pleases with regards to alignment. Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and, Bama have all been pressing Slive to go after UNC and UVA. If he gets both, then Delany's plan will change. Because those are the two schools he wants for the B10, too.
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I agree with you and worded my post poorly.
Yes, absolutely UVA and UNC are the Slive's top desire to join the SEC. But as has been stated here and on the UVA board, UNC and UVA aren't going to leave the ACC first despite the rumors. So short of that, the remaining universities in question all do share an SEC market already.
And if by chance Delany did manage to woo UVA, I'm sure the SEC would not have the ability to swing their preference to the SEC. Academics, academics, academics...
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Oh, if UVA were to select the B10, Slive's masterplan has to be altered a bit, for sure. If he can still get UNC, he could then grab VPI, and, call it good.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:18 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Bamain , how do you sell your plan to the rest of the SEC? How do you ask them to take a pay cut from TV revenue?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:34 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Who says they will take a pay cut from TV revenue? Like I said, doubling down on two new markets with a combined population of 17 million is a whole heck of a lot different than doubling down on, say, South Carolina with all of less than 5 million people by adding Clemson or doubling down on Georgia where no one cares about GT.
Further, if part of the goal is to keep the B1G out of the Southeast, then doubling down in VA and NC effectively does that while adding two large population states not currently in the SEC footprint.
Adding UNC and UVA to the SEC brings in two of the top public universities not only in the South but in the country.
What I'm saying is that doubling down on VA and NC if it means keeping the B1G out of the South for good, bringing in highly prestigious academic institutions in UNC and UVA, and locking down new markets totaling 17 million people might be worth it to the SEC.
But only Slive and company know whether such a move is worth it to them in the long run.
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Bamain , how do you sell your plan to the rest of the SEC? How do you ask them to take a pay cut from TV revenue?
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Posted: 1/31/2013 9:51 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
Who says they will take a pay cut from TV revenue? Like I said, doubling down on two new markets with a combined population of 17 million is a whole heck of a lot different than doubling down on, say, South Carolina with all of less than 5 million people by adding Clemson or doubling down on Georgia where no one cares about GT.
Further, if part of the goal is to keep the B1G out of the Southeast, then doubling down in VA and NC effectively does that while adding two large population states not currently in the SEC footprint.
Adding UNC and UVA to the SEC brings in two of the top public universities not only in the South but in the country.
What I'm saying is that doubling down on VA and NC if it means keeping the B1G out of the South for good, bringing in highly prestigious academic institutions in UNC and UVA, and locking down new markets totaling 17 million people might be worth it to the SEC.
But only Slive and company know whether such a move is worth it to them in the long run.
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Bamain , how do you sell your plan to the rest of the SEC? How do you ask them to take a pay cut from TV revenue?
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This idea is intriguing regardless of the hiring the handicapped idea of admitting NCSU.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:32 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Hey, Tarheels fans. I have read all seven pages of this thread and have one BIG reaction. BiG Ten fans are egotistical and obnoxious. Any semblance of southern manners and charm totally escapes them. The biggest BiG Ten blog is Frankthetank. When first I read that blog back in 2010 and 2011, they spoke very bad about my university, saying no conference leaders in their right mind would accept membership from us. On the other hand, all SEC posters were very gracious and welcoming. And after we became members, to my surprise, even more so. Visiting their campuses for pre-game tailgaters, they put a drink in one of my hands and and a BBQ sandwich in the other and cheered mightlily for their team to stomp a mudhole in our posterior. We feel very comfortable in the SEC and if things work out badly for the ACC, you will receive a lot of SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY WELCOMING YOU ABOARD. SEC would be fortunate to have a fine educational institution like UNC join up. We would love to have the Tarheels as a cross divisional rival. Gig Em'
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:33 PM
Re: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the
First of all, since this is my first post here, I just wanted to say that I'm not here to troll or beat the SEC drum on your forum. I'm a huge UGA fan from GA who let his wife talk him into moving out to Phoenix, AZ. An even bigger boneheaded idea I had was to bring my lawn mower with me. I hope only to contribute intelligent insights and participate in meaningful discussion with other passionate fan bases like y’all.
Since I grew up in GA, college football is part of who I am just like y'all. Before there were the Falcons & the Panthers, there was UGA & UNC which is why I think our northern colleagues have a hard time understanding why our passion is so deeply rooted in our southern culture. This hints to one reason why there is such a kinship among southerners in college football. I don’t say this to start the northerner/southerner argument, but to simply set the back drop to a following statement I will make concerning the B1G Network gaining traction in southern markets.
I saw earlier post allude to the perception that Rutgers and Maryland won’t bring enough voices to demand carriage on TV packages. This got me thinking on some things I have observed on the West Coast and Georgia TV cable providers vs. the conferences & their fan base. I will start with my observation of the Pac12 Network and its mass failure to date (IMHO). The concept of the Pac12 was/is sound in its fundamental design (regional networks carrying regional sports programing). The problem is in part due to cultural affinity with college sports and partly due to regional domination by professional sports franchises in the region. For the past 9 months, the Pac12 leaders have been asking (begging) its fans to demand that companies like DirectTV carry the PacNetwork. This plea has fallen on deaf ears and I still can neither see many Pac12 games nor do I even care.
Conversely the fan base in Georgia is ruled by UGA fans. There are also many GA Tech fans also (I also like GT second to my Dawgs of course), but they do not carry the clout to force Georgia natives to demand that cable providers carry a B1G Network at additional costs. This is an area of gross miscalculation by Jim Delany unless he has 4 Aces up his sleeve that I don’t know about. As over a 30 year Georgia native, I know the pulse of the average Georgia native and the B1G Network will not gain more than a nominal fee by cable providers since very few Georgia natives will demand the cable company carry the network. In fact, I believe it is very possible that a greater majority of UGA/SEC fans will call their provider to demand that their bill not increase to accommodate the extra fees associated with the B1G Network. I know I would do just that, part from lack of interest and partly due to southern pride.
My whole point is that I think the B1G should pause and rethink its strategy to rip apart the ACC in order to gain TV market shares since presence in the market doesn’t necessarily equate to subscribers being willing to demand/pay for the B1G Network.
Last edited 1/31/2013 10:48 PM by maxlmumfun1
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:34 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Ok BamainCarolina, let's examine your idea, which I have to admit I considered myself when I first heard realignment rumors. Take 2 in VA and 2 in NC. That leaves the SEC with 18. The problem is not just doubling down in two states, albeit large states. You now also have to go to 20 because 18 is as unwieldy as 14. You can't have three divisions of 6, because a four division situation allows for three postseason games. Having two four team and two five team divisions doesn't permit clean scheduling. So 20 is required. Now you have to double down in FL (FSU), GA (GT), and/or SC (Clemson). So whatever gains might have been made by getting into VA and NC are now negated by doubling in four states.
The goal of the SEC is to accomplish the following:
1) Go to 16, and STOP
2) Get into VA and NC
3) block out the BIG10
Since the BIG10 will not consider VT and probably would not consider Duke, the combo of UVA and UNC to the SEC is the only one that accomplishes all three. Losing out on either UVA or UNC means that the SEC CANNOT accomplish all three goals. If there is movement, as unlikely as it is, I think UVA will go BIG10 making plan B the best the SEC can do.
The SEC's next best hope at that point is UNC/Duke. That would be preferred (from UNC's perspective) over UNC/VT. The SEC would be willing to accommodate that request for the prize of landing UNC. And Duke ain't so shabby anyway. Top flight academics and top notch basketball that keeps the #1 rivalry in college athletics in tact. It would lock down NC as an all SEC state.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 10:47 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
Ok BamainCarolina, let's examine your idea, which I have to admit I considered myself when I first heard realignment rumors. Take 2 in VA and 2 in NC. That leaves the SEC with 18. The problem is not just doubling down in two states, albeit large states. You now also have to go to 20 because 18 is as unwieldy as 14. You can't have three divisions of 6, because a four division situation allows for three postseason games. Having two four team and two five team divisions doesn't permit clean scheduling. So 20 is required. Now you have to double down in FL (FSU), GA (GT), and/or SC (Clemson). So whatever gains might have been made by getting into VA and NC are now negated by doubling in four states.
The goal of the SEC is to accomplish the following:
1) Go to 16, and STOP
2) Get into VA and NC
3) block out the BIG10
Since the BIG10 will not consider VT and probably would not consider Duke, the combo of UVA and UNC to the SEC is the only one that accomplishes all three. Losing out on either UVA or UNC means that the SEC CANNOT accomplish all three goals. If there is movement, as unlikely as it is, I think UVA will go BIG10 making plan B the best the SEC can do.
The SEC's next best hope at that point is UNC/Duke. That would be preferred (from UNC's perspective) over UNC/VT. The SEC would be willing to accommodate that request for the prize of landing UNC. And Duke ain't so shabby anyway. Top flight academics and top notch basketball that keeps the #1 rivalry in college athletics in tact. It would lock down NC as an all SEC state.
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There is much truth in this post.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:04 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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If the B1G takes UVA, UNC, GT & FSU, wouldn't they be getting two from contiguous states (UVA & UNC) and two from states that are not from contiguous states (GT & FSU)?
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Nc has borders with GA. Ga with Florida.
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Well crap, I guess I should look at a map before post a question like that. For some reason I was thinking South Carolina totally separated North Carolina and Georgia.
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Posted: 1/31/2013 11:11 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Good points Stormer, but my point was more about what Slive's actual options to "defend" the southern areas that would not cost member schools money. Right now with GT in the ACC, they are not costing the SEC any money. If they join the SEC, now you have 2 schools in one state sharing viewer dollars. Other than going to 22 teams and having per school shares cut. I am not sure what he can do for total protection.
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Hello Buck, I've followed much of your posts on this topic and appreciate your viewpoint. That said, I've lived most of my life in Georgia and can say, with complete confidence, that there is no way that the B1G Network will “share viewer dollars”. Ga Tech is a fine institution and can contribute to the B1G in academics and on the football field, but will never deliver the view dollars or the Atlanta market. The Atlanta market is (and has been) owned by UGA and I think the anticipated results of adding GT to the B1G is grossly inflated.
As a B1G fan, I simply assume that you are unaware of just how little influence GT has in Georgia college football culture. Florida State on the other hand would benefit the B1G since it does has a significant following both regionally and nationally.
I would also like to make it known that I do not wish for either the B1G or the SEC expand. The SEC has long standing relationships with the ACC and even longer relationships with individual schools in the ACC. I'm hoping that the ACC survives without losing anymore members. UNC belongs in the ACC and should only leave when y'all make the decision, not when it is forced upon y'all by outside conferences.
Last edited 1/31/2013 11:16 PM by maxlmumfun1
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Posted: 2/1/2013 7:16 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- maxlmumfun1 wrote:
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--- WhatheBuck wrote:
Good points Stormer, but my point was more about what Slive's actual options to "defend" the southern areas that would not cost member schools money. Right now with GT in the ACC, they are not costing the SEC any money. If they join the SEC, now you have 2 schools in one state sharing viewer dollars. Other than going to 22 teams and having per school shares cut. I am not sure what he can do for total protection.
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Hello Buck, I've followed much of your posts on this topic and appreciate your viewpoint. That said, I've lived most of my life in Georgia and can say, with complete confidence, that there is no way that the B1G Network will “share viewer dollars”. Ga Tech is a fine institution and can contribute to the B1G in academics and on the football field, but will never deliver the view dollars or the Atlanta market. The Atlanta market is (and has been) owned by UGA and I think the anticipated results of adding GT to the B1G is grossly inflated.
As a B1G fan, I simply assume that you are unaware of just how little influence GT has in Georgia college football culture. Florida State on the other hand would benefit the B1G since it does has a significant following both regionally and nationally.
I would also like to make it known that I do not wish for either the B1G or the SEC expand. The SEC has long standing relationships with the ACC and even longer relationships with individual schools in the ACC. I'm hoping that the ACC survives without losing anymore members. UNC belongs in the ACC and should only leave when y'all make the decision, not when it is forced upon y'all by outside conferences.
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There is one small fact that you are forgetting about that Delaney probably has not. Its been talked about in this thread. B1G/rustbelt population growth has slowed. They did not quit having kids. Millions have moved. Where have they moved? North Carolina ,Georgia and Florida. So you would add GT fans to the B1G fans in Atlanta. I tailgate every Sunday at Panther stadium in Charlotte. I am amazed at the amount of fans from northern cities when there teams play. And almost all of them came from less then 2 hours away. I went to DC to watch the Panthers play up there. HUGE tailgates there. I met maybe 6 Panther fans. The fact is that Northerners like me have infested the southeast. I was excited about the Talk of merger of the B1G and ACC. Not as much now. I dont want to upset a fanbase like NC. I liken it to a kid who finds some new kids to play with on a playground. Its fun until they tell you to go play some where else.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:19 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
Phat, I can not speak to Carolina or DC, but I can do so about Georgia and Phoenix. I do agree that many northerners have moved to warmer climates.
Many years ago, I noticed that Northeasterners tended to move into SC, GA & Fla and they brought their passion for their pro sports teams with them. I used to own season tickets for the Atlanta Falcons and also noticed the same thing in Atlanta that I noticed in my experiences in the private retail sector, extensive political work for state politics and many different charity organizations. Being an inquisitive type of individual, knowing an answer is not good enough for me, I always have to know the “why” of the answer which led to my intentional observation of the influx. As a result, I often noticed that the vast majority of those individuals who “retired” south, were from the New England states, NY, NJ and Pennsylvania states.
Upon moving to Phoenix, I was intrigued to notice that rarely did I have to interact with people from NY and the other northeastern states. In fact, I noticed that Phoenix had a dominate (2nd to CA) influx of Midwestern folks. I rarely ever interacted with people from NY and such, but I routinely interacted with people from Ohio, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska and so forth. I have some theories as to why this is the case, but no formal studies.
Anyways, my point is that if expansion is really about TV dollars and eyeballs glued to TV sets, the B1G should try to pursue universities in Arizona as opposed to GT although I still wouldn't watch it. It was rare that I had to deal with Midwesterners back in GA, but I can honestly say that having had extensive dealings with both regions since relocating to Phx, I much prefer speaking with Midwesterners who are typically more polite than your eastern neighbors.
Last edited 2/1/2013 9:28 AM by maxlmumfun1
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Posted: 2/1/2013 8:58 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- NaturalStateReb wrote:
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--- condor101 wrote:
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--- NaturalStateReb wrote:
I don't know if anything is going to happen or not, but there's way too much chatter for nothing to be going on. Maybe nothing will come of it, but I think it's clear that conversations are being had.
If the ACC does come unspun, hope to see UNC folks on The Grove soon, enjoying one of the best tailgates in the country.
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The chatter is coming from the guys on WVU's B12 board since they cover conferences realignment, Sasquatch and UFO sightings. There is almost nothing in the real news.
IMHO, No ACC teams want to be in the Big Ten or Big 12 but maybe a few that would jump to the SEC if they got an offer.
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Well, at least they wouldn't have far to go for the Sasquatch sightings.
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For that matter, I'm still convinced that I saw a Sasquatch back in the day on dook's West Campus. (For you Walmart dook fans, that's the fake Gothic section where Hansbrough Indoor Stadium is located). Turns out, I walked through campus right before Coach Go-Stinkers was set to have practice. Like the Patterson-Gimlin film, this 'squatch appeared to be female, and was wearing a "dook Hoops: Beastly" t-shirt.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:04 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- BamainCarolina wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
Also, phat, as to you saying that Slive and Delany are talking. I am pretty skeptical of that. Something tells me that Mike Slive wants to keep Jim Delany and the Big 10 out of the SEC heartland. And, that he will do what he can to prevent that.
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That is probably the single biggest truth in all the realignment talk/rumors. Slive and Delany are mortal enemies.
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Maybe not mortal enemies, but, definitely each other's biggest competitor.
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Isn't Slive a UVA grad??
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Yes but he is a yankee.
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Good Lord, now don't you start in with the 'yankee' nonsense, too...LOL. :D
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The word "Yankee" is offensive. I've begun referring to it as the "y-word" in class. Y'all need to update your jargon, bro.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:06 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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Being a former Dean Smith pre-clock era point guard, I assure you that Delaney is willing to go into the 4 corners if necessary.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:49 AM
Re: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the
As an aside, I used to shudder when that guard tandem of Delaney/Fogler tried to bring the ball up court against a pressing defense. I didn't trust Delaney then; and I sure don't trust him now in his B1G role.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 9:55 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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If the B1G takes UVA, UNC, GT & FSU, wouldn't they be getting two from contiguous states (UVA & UNC) and two from states that are not from contiguous states (GT & FSU)?
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Nc has borders with GA. Ga with Florida.
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Well crap, I guess I should look at a map before post a question like that. For some reason I was thinking South Carolina totally separated North Carolina and Georgia.
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We should have built a moat around our state, but we'll need more tax dollars.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 10:12 AM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
I respectfully disagree, Dirk. Mike Slive will not just sit by, and, watch Jim Delany do as he pleases with regards to alignment. Vanderbilt, UF, UGA, and, Bama have all been pressing Slive to go after UNC and UVA. If he gets both, then Delany's plan will change. Because those are the two schools he wants for the B10, too.
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I agree with you and worded my post poorly.
Yes, absolutely UVA and UNC are the Slive's top desire to join the SEC. But as has been stated here and on the UVA board, UNC and UVA aren't going to leave the ACC first despite the rumors. So short of that, the remaining universities in question all do share an SEC market already.
And if by chance Delany did manage to woo UVA, I'm sure the SEC would not have the ability to swing their preference to the SEC. Academics, academics, academics...
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Location, location, location. Wait, is this a real estate thread?
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:33 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
NY and NJ cable customers will beg for the BTN because they love the Yankees. Fox Sports will bundle BTN with the YES network (which carries the yankees in their cable negotiations
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--- NorthStateNole wrote:
I'm no expert, but the way the Big Ten makes money with its Big Ten Network Tax is blacking out UMd and Rutgers on BTN until the cable providers agree to move it to first tier and pay five times the carriage (presumably under pressure from the dozens of outraged fans of each school). Of course, most people in New Jersey and Maryland could care less about the Big Ten but will be forced to pay the tax if they want other first-tier cable. If a la carte catches on, there won't be bundled channels that you are forced to pay for, which is what Delaney is doing, forcing people to pay for BTN that do not want it, buy essentially extorting the cable providers in NJ and MD by blacking out games until moved to first tier (Delaney already said this is what they are doing). It remains to be see if this plot will even work, but if a la carte becomes the norm it certainly pulls the rug out from underneath the Big Ten Network Tax, people will just buy the channels they want.
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Last edited 2/1/2013 12:36 PM by CalBayBuckeye
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Posted: 2/1/2013 12:42 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
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--- therabidrev wrote:
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- phatassjungle wrote:
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--- bamatab wrote:
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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:
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--- WesternStormer wrote:
What if both UNC and UVA say no, what of the Big 10's insistence on being in contiguous states? Would the B10 then offer Va Tech and NC State, instead? Or, would they forego that to add Ga Tech, and, FSU or Miami? Tech is the only other AAU school available, which is something else the league insists upon.
Seems like if both UNC and UVA say no, then, it'd require a pretty big rethink of Jim Delany's part.
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These are good questions WesternStormer. The truth is nobody knows for sure what Delany is thinking. On top of that, no one knows for sure what the BIG10 Presidents are thinking either. And they have final say, not Delany.
One school of thought is that the BIG10 could relent on the AAU requirement based on the Nebraska example. However, it's fair to point out that Nebraska was AAU and lost it just prior to entering the BIG10. I've also heard suggestions that the BIG10 would make an exception on AAU for the "right" university. If the BIG10 really is serious about going into the south, ultimately they would like to have UVA, UNC, GT, and FSU. That keeps the contiguous states thing going, and it leaves two more spots open for ND and another NE university.
But if UVA and UNC say "no thanks", none of it happens.
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If the B1G takes UVA, UNC, GT & FSU, wouldn't they be getting two from contiguous states (UVA & UNC) and two from states that are not from contiguous states (GT & FSU)?
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Nc has borders with GA. Ga with Florida.
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Well crap, I guess I should look at a map before post a question like that. For some reason I was thinking South Carolina totally separated North Carolina and Georgia.
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We should have built a moat around our state, but we'll need more tax dollars.
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The moat aint working for Texas's southern border.
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Posted: 2/1/2013 1:08 PM
RE: Conference Realignment: Is Basketball Pushing UNC to the SEC
So you're basing your assessment of all Big Ten fans on a handful of posters? I've posted on a number of boards and what I've noticed is most posters that go from board to board are egotistical and obnoxious, not just Big Ten fans. I think if you asked Nebraska, Maryland, and Rutgers fans they would have similar stories about being welcomed to the Big Ten.
I'm going to need a link to back up your claim that the FranktheTank blog wrote negative things about A&M, particularly that no conference leaders in their right mind would accept them as members. From everything I've read A&M is a fine school and a member of the AAU so I have a hard time imagining that was the case. Having posted on the A&M board during the period where your move was discussed I can tell you that the lack of interest was more on the part of your school and fans who have always seemed to be more interested in the SEC than any other conference.
I'm sure if UNC were to opt to change conferences and chose the SEC they would be warmly welcomed just as they would be in the Big Ten and I wish A&M well in the SEC, I'm glad you finally got to a conference that you always seemed to want to join even though I would have liked to see you join the Big Ten as part of a Southwestern expansion.
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--- swesleyh wrote:
Hey, Tarheels fans. I have read all seven pages of this thread and have one BIG reaction. BiG Ten fans are egotistical and obnoxious. Any semblance of southern manners and charm totally escapes them. The biggest BiG Ten blog is Frankthetank. When first I read that blog back in 2010 and 2011, they spoke very bad about my university, saying no conference leaders in their right mind would accept membership from us. On the other hand, all SEC posters were very gracious and welcoming. And after we became members, to my surprise, even more so. Visiting their campuses for pre-game tailgaters, they put a drink in one of my hands and and a BBQ sandwich in the other and cheered mightlily for their team to stomp a mudhole in our posterior. We feel very comfortable in the SEC and if things work out badly for the ACC, you will receive a lot of SOUTHERN HOSPITALITY WELCOMING YOU ABOARD. SEC would be fortunate to have a fine educational institution like UNC join up. We would love to have the Tarheels as a cross divisional rival. Gig Em'
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