By working as a HS coach. By working as a grad assistant (like Ken Norton did at first). By working as a lowly 'asst' DL coach. Thats also how he'd learn the recruiting game.

Jeebus, you are making the point for me! Tommy Thigpen started as a grad assistant here under Torbush for 2 seasons. THEN he was hired at a tiny school in Tennessee. THEN he was hired into the MAC. As for his playing experience trumping all, he has been tasked with coaching safeties/DBs more than coaching LBs. Even had he stayed here he would not have coached LBs. Our LBs took a step forward after Kaufman took over LBs.

Weird indeed.


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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

So how does one then gain "experience" on D-line coaching? From studying under coaches? Such as being around them everyday at practice? Almost like being part of the team? Weird. I wonder if Greg has ever done that?

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He was a grad assistant here for 1 season. (No NFL experience mind you, let alone 12 seasons worth) Then he became LB coach at Tenn St.

I guess he must've learned all he needed to know about LB coaching in 1 year as a grad assistant.

You're bad at this. You've got the market cornered on snark though. Imagine if that was worth something...

What position is he coaching at Tennessee now? What did he coach at BGSU? Who was he hired to coach at Illinois and Auburn?

Does playing experience help? Sure, I never said it didn't. Does it make you a good coach? Communicator? Developer of talent? Recruiter? We know that its not enough and some good to great coaches never played the position they coach.

As I said I'm open to examples if you've got them. Providing one that spent 4 years learning his craft before getting a job at a BCS school supports my point, not yours.



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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

He was a grad assistant here for 1 season. (No NFL experience mind you, let alone 12 seasons worth) Then he became LB coach at Tenn St.

I guess he must've learned all he needed to know about LB coaching in 1 year as a grad assistant.

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Well, Kliff Kingsbury is a 32 year-old BCS head coach without a lick of head coaching experience.

He became an offensive coordinator after 1 year as a "quality control coach" at Houston.

I guess that one season as a quality control coach was more than enough "experience" for him to become an offensive coordinator.

Of course being an offensive coordinator is probably waaaaaaaaay easier than being a D-line coach.

I'd also venture to guess that his playing experience played no part in him getting the job. None at all. It was definitely his quality control experience.

great job GhostofSnark. You are able to ignore factual statements that you can't speak to AND found a great example of an school reaching for a candidate because he is an alumnus! And crazy enough, he fits my example better than yours AGAIN!

Kingsbury was at Houston as of 2008. He spent two years as a quality control assistant (08 and 09) then EARNED (I know you hate it when people have to earn their job) his promotion to QB coach/Co-Coorinator in 2010 and 11 before going to A+M with Sumlin in 2012.

He was not handed a position coach job because he went to school somewhere or because he played in the NFL. He was offered a non-recruiting staff position because his old coordinator/position coach from Tech was the OC at Houston at the time (Holgorsen). This is EXACTLY what I said Ellis should do if he wants to get into coaching.

So you dismiss the Thigpen example because he didn't start out at an FBS school (and of course he did get an ENTIRE year of experience as a grad assistant)

Then you dismiss the Kingsbury example because he was an alum hired out of desperation (odd because earlier you said alum status makes no difference at all; backpeddle much?) and you also dismiss the fact he has no head coaching experience and had no offensive coordinator experience prior to getting either job. He had a whopping 1 year of experience as a quality control coach.

Neither of the guys I mentioned had any relevant NFL experience, let alone pro-bowl seasons and they also weren't All-Americans in college. They also happened to be in their mid-late 20s rather than approaching 40 like Greg Ellis.

Whatever helps you sleep at night man. I'm done providing examples that completely disprove your points. Enjoy.

Every example you've given me started in a non-staff position or as a graduate assistant. Thats exactly what I said a former player should do if he wants to get into coaching at the college level. Thats what Kingsbury did. Thats what Thigpen did. Thats what Ken Norton did. Norton, I think you would agree, had just as good of a NFL career as Ellis. He wanted to be a GA for UCLA and they didn't respond so he contacted USC.

So I didn't dismiss your examples. To the contrary, I embraced them. You are making my point for me.

None stepped into a staff position based on playing experience, because there's so much more to the job than that. Thigpen did not go from GA to a BCS job. He had to work his way up from Tennessee State to Bowling Green to Illinois. How does support your idea of hiring someone into a BCS level position coach gig because they wore a UNC jersey and played in the NFL?



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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

So you dismiss the Thigpen example because he didn't start out at an FBS school (and of course he did get an ENTIRE year of experience as a grad assistant)

Then you dismiss the Kingsbury example because he was an alum hired out of desperation (odd because earlier you said alum status makes no difference at all; backpeddle much?) and you also dismiss the fact he has no head coaching experience and had no offensive coordinator experience prior to getting either job. He had a whopping 1 year of experience as a quality control coach.

Neither of the guys I mentioned had any relevant NFL experience, let alone pro-bowl seasons and they also weren't All-Americans in college. They also happened to be in their mid-late 20s rather than approaching 40 like Greg Ellis.

Whatever helps you sleep at night man. I'm done providing examples that completely disprove your points. Enjoy.

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Nominate | Report
Posted: Yesterday 8:39 AM
Re: What's the deal with Deke Adams?
Do you realize that the DL coach would be responsible for the development of almost as many players as are on the ENTIRE basketball team?

And I don't think experience is a prerequisite, it is a prerequisite. This isn't a charity or a mom and pop store.



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--- tdfon wrote:

Ellis was a smart player and demonstrated excellent leadership skills at UNC and in the NFL for over a decade.

I wouldn't immediately discount him as a legitimate candidate.

Those of you that believe 10 years coaching experience is a prerequisite might take a look at item #3 on this link: www.tarheelmonthly.com/thm-dai...-62-maryland-52

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I do realize there is no "magic route" required to be a coach. Successful coaches arrive at the pinnacle of their career In a variety of ways. I have learned from you that basketball coaches are not a good example, even though core skills such as leadership, motivation, orginazation, salesmenship(recruiting), etc are the same in any sport. I have no doubt whatsoever that Fedora could name Anson Dorrance DL coach today and he would be successful at the position this fall.

But let's take a look at a couple of other football examples. For general discussion, we'll just call them Jim and John. Jim played pro ball for 14 years, was a major D-1 head coach within 6 years and made it to the Super Bowl only 6 years later. Meanwhile, John never played pro ball, never was a head coach anywhere at the college level, but finally, after 29 years, made it to the Super Bowl only 5 years after assuming his first head coaching position.

Distinctly different routes, most would agree. How could this happen? Maybe there is more than one way to acquire the necessary skills to be a successful coach? Maybe it's all hereditary and you just have to be born into the "right" family or just grow up in Ohio? I know nothing about Ellis' family, so perhaps you are correct.

Carnell Lake is another example. He "interned" with the Eagles staff during their training camp in '09 and was promptly hired as DB coach for UCLA a few weeks later. He left for family reasons after one season and then his next coaching gig was as DB coach for the Steelers.

Not too bad for a guy whose only experience was as an intern during a training camp.

For what it's worth, the Steelers pass defense ranked 1st in the NFL in each of the past 2 seasons.

Nothing hereditary about it. Having a father that was a coach before they were born and then their entire lives is not hereditary, its learned behavior. Of course there are different ways of acquiring the necessary skills.

I'll keep saying it: Greg Ellis, or any other player could become a good coach. They have the knowledge base and potential. They are not inherently a good coach, or a good hire here, because they played the game here and in the NFL. Any former player should have the opportunity to start as a graduate assistant here. If they have those skills and just need to learn the recruiting game then they'll earn position coaching jobs in no time.

If I have to choose between an alum with playing experience but no coaching experience and a guy who has been turning out NFL draft picks wherever he coaches I'm going with the proven guy every time. And with that, I welcome coach Gilmore.


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--- tdfon wrote:

But let's take a look at a couple of other football examples. For general discussion, we'll just call them Jim and John. Jim played pro ball for 14 years, was a major D-1 head coach within 6 years and made it to the Super Bowl only 6 years later. Meanwhile, John never played pro ball, never was a head coach anywhere at the college level, but finally, after 29 years, made it to the Super Bowl only 5 years after assuming his first head coaching position.

Distinctly different routes, most would agree. How could this happen? Maybe there is more than one way to acquire the necessary skills to be a successful coach? Maybe it's all hereditary and you just have to be born into the "right" family or just grow up in Ohio? I know nothing about Ellis' family, so perhaps you are correct.

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