I suggest you go listen to the IC radio interview with Vic. I think a lot of last years issues on D were from fitting square pegs in round holes. I believe the staff has a better grasp of what they have for 2013 and vast improvement is expected.

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--- AugustaHeel wrote:

So does it hurt a little that someone took a coach from us... yes

But from where I sit, anyone directly involved in giving up 68 to GaTech and making a Maryland linebacker look like freakin Johnny Football is better off somewhere else anyway.

If I was responsible for preparing the defense or a group of players on the defense, I would have either resigned in shame or asked to be fired. So in my probably overly narrow view, everyone associated with the defense has something to prove next season. Our offense played well enough to win 10 or 11 games last year... our defense lost 3 and tried to lose another 2 or 3.

Deke... see ya, good luck.

Vic, Dan... we expect better

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Hello? U guess the SEC speaks/talks...u bet it does, which is why we should join it.
Of course he'll make a lot more money.
He will also get to coach two of the top 10 DEs in the country, one fo which will be a legit Heisman candidate - Clowney...that's the kind of thing these guys highlight on their resumes.

Bottom line is simply that if the program grows and is successful, members of the staff are going to be courted by other programs. I suppose it's better that they be in demand than not because that normally means they're doing something right. Doesn't make losing a guy any easier but if the program goes where we all hope it will, it's going to happen.

I liked Deke and Duggan but anytime you lose a guy, the opportunity to upgrade presents itself by default. Can we take advantage of that and improve the staff overall? Let's see what Larry comes up with.

It's definitely going to happen. I think most realize that but the timing on this one could have been better.

I would be lying if I didn't say that while I hate we're losing Deke, I think the opportunity to possibly upgrade is exciting and to be perfectly honest, I think it's needed. Nothing against Deke, Duggan or anyone but there are some spots on the staff that could be improved IMO.

Brian Baker, the D-Line coach that Butch hired that went to Dallas just got relieved of his duties.

Maybe a return is in order?

I like your way of thinking. I think position coaches out there have taken notice of the potential UNC is beginning to offer with Coach Fedora at the helm. We'll be alright!



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--- lightblueblood wrote:

Bottom line is simply that if the program grows and is successful, members of the staff are going to be courted by other programs. I suppose it's better that they be in demand than not because that normally means they're doing something right. Doesn't make losing a guy any easier but if the program goes where we all hope it will, it's going to happen.

I liked Deke and Duggan but anytime you lose a guy, the opportunity to upgrade presents itself by default. Can we take advantage of that and improve the staff overall? Let's see what Larry comes up with.

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The timing is bad IMO BUT, I think our defensive side needed a shake up. I'm not laying our issues on Deke, not at all but let's face it, our defense was just plain bad. Moving a few pieces around or adding a few new pieces probably can't hurt.

I wish Deke good luck and thank him for his contributions.

I guess the timing could have been better but should he have waited until after signing day? Would that have been fair to the kids? I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm just asking the question.

At least by announcing it now, we can't be accused of trying to mislead anyone.

I wonder what the difference in $$$ it is for being a dl coach at flordia, lil carolina, and unc. The salaries for a college dl coach is probably 300,000-500,000 i wonder what coach Deke left for just 100,000 mor a yr???

lawing left scarolina not for a "better job" but for other reasons...he needed to get his house in order, yanno?

Just 100,000 more a year? That's a decent bump in pay...

Old UNC Salary Info

www.newsobserver.com/2011/02/2...659352810739254


More current SCar Salary Info

www.thestate.com/salaries/?app...amp;CPIorderBy=



I would be interested to know what Adams was making.

Also, don't forget he gets to coach Clowney for a year versus Martin/Jackson. BIG difference in terms of building your resume.

Chess move for Deke, coaching a sure fire star in Clowney and probably a contender for top defense in football could lead to a defensive coordinator, head coach (small school) or NFL position coaching position. he has no ties to UNC and their D' line is far superior to ours.

Would absolutely love to see LF bring Ken Browning back as DL coach.

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--- unosee wrote:

Would absolutely love to see LF bring Ken Browning back as DL coach.

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That would be interesting. He's pretty old though. What about Mogridge.

Thanks to Brian Wilson for digging up those links above. The differences in assistant coach pay is not really that big, I see, and from what I am hearing, we actually matched the offer. I think he just wanted the opportunity to coach Clowney and have that on his resume. Who can blame him?

Wonder if Vic has some connection for a replacement?

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

I wonder... www.fightingillini.com/sports/...re_keith00.html

or this guy: kstatesports.cstv.com/sports/m...s_joebob00.html

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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Kids love this Greg would do a great job
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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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not bad idea, but I assume Rob Ryan will hire him in St. Louis

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--- mrfreddyrob wrote:

Brian Baker, the D-Line coach that Butch hired that went to Dallas just got relieved of his duties.

Maybe a return is in order?

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Spurrier no fool. He hires (if he can) coaches who are beating his staff on recruiting trail. This case has NOTHING to do with a coaches on field talent, its all recruiting here folks.

This is pretty much on the mark. We (SC) must be successful in NC with recruiting. There is 2 and 1/2 times as many players to pick from in NC compared to SC. Georgia is also a must.

Chess move ?? its not checkmate. Seems as though he didnt double his salary! And if clowney has 50 sacks this yr they wont credit dekes with it.. you only get credit for developing talent not coaching ready talent. Or recruiting talent and he could have done that here!!
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--- groundnotcontrolled wrote:

Chess move for Deke, coaching a sure fire star in Clowney and probably a contender for top defense in football could lead to a defensive coordinator, head coach (small school) or NFL position coaching position. he has no ties to UNC and their D' line is far superior to ours.

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Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a recruit?

I am right. We should be hiring the best coach we can find, not the best alumnus who may not even be in coaching right now. Playing does not equal the ability to coach. They may overlap but your error is assuming they absolutely do.

I'm a fan of Greg as a player both here and in Dallas, however my fandom does not blind me into believing he could step into a major college program and do the job of DL coach, DL recruiter and everything that goes with it "just because". Is he coaching now anywhere? Does he even want to get into it? Those questions/answers more important than his status as a alum.




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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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Coaching up Clowney is about as hard as teaching an all-A student basic math. If hs puts that on his resume, that is one element I would look at with some amusement.

Now, you guys know that OBC wouldn't do anything shady, don't you? He would say that it's just that all the best coaches want to work for him.
Strange that you didn't see any of them knocking the door down in Washington to get on his staff. The worst part of this deal is what one poster has already mentioned - Deke carries the playbook with him when he goes, and he will have already been active when time comes for the UNC-USuck game next fall. But that's the way the cookie crumbles.

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a future UNC player? Seriously? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response....

As for the rest, I have no idea if he's coaching. Which is why I asked what he's up to right now.

But let's talk hypothetical resumes for a minute. Is there a better resume than someone who has a vested interest in your school, has played under multiple D-line coaches for roughly 20 years at all 3 levels of competitive, organized football, has tons of NFL contacts, was one of the top D-linemen around during the peak of his career, and he happens to be from North Carolina?

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a recruit?

I am right. We should be hiring the best coach we can find, not the best alumnus who may not even be in coaching right now. Playing does not equal the ability to coach. They may overlap but your error is assuming they absolutely do.

I'm a fan of Greg as a player both here and in Dallas, however my fandom does not blind me into believing he could step into a major college program and do the job of DL coach, DL recruiter and everything that goes with it "just because". Is he coaching now anywhere? Does he even want to get into it? Those questions/answers more important than his status as a alum.




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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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Vernon Hargreaves would be a good choice for either one of the open coaching spots we have. He has worked with LB and DE in the past and also knows the area after his time at ECU.

Lawing went to Florida

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--- OnNtwo wrote:

lawing left scarolina not for a "better job" but for other reasons...he needed to get his house in order, yanno?

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Your resume didn't include any coaching experience...

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a future UNC player? Seriously? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response....

As for the rest, I have no idea if he's coaching. Which is why I asked what he's up to right now.

But let's talk hypothetical resumes for a minute. Is there a better resume than someone who has a vested interest in your school, has played under multiple D-line coaches for roughly 20 years at all 3 levels of competitive, organized football, has tons of NFL contacts, was one of the top D-linemen around during the peak of his career, and he happens to be from North Carolina?

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a recruit?

I am right. We should be hiring the best coach we can find, not the best alumnus who may not even be in coaching right now. Playing does not equal the ability to coach. They may overlap but your error is assuming they absolutely do.

I'm a fan of Greg as a player both here and in Dallas, however my fandom does not blind me into believing he could step into a major college program and do the job of DL coach, DL recruiter and everything that goes with it "just because". Is he coaching now anywhere? Does he even want to get into it? Those questions/answers more important than his status as a alum.




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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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lol

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--- jttgames wrote:

I don't know how good a recruiter he may have been, but I really can't get too upset about anyone who coached(?) last years defense leaving.

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Position coaches don't have the impact that coordinators do. Adams could very well be a decent DL coach and he's reportedly a good recruiter. Our problem on D IMHO was DD was calling the shots instead of Vic. It's the only thing that makes sense to me given Vic has never fielded a D worse than 40th (even in his first seasons as DC and with less talent than UNC). DD on the other hand had 1 yr as DC at SoMiss and nowhere near the resume of Vic. Quite frankly, I can't believe Fedora made the mistake of not letting Vic lead the D last season. Strategic and tragic mistake if true.

Wait, you're going to prioritize COACHING experience as a criteria for being hired to Coach? Don't you know its all soft skills?? Ha.

Ghost, the better candidate would be a proven DL coach. A coach who has spent years working with young men and making them better as a result of his coaching. He's likely to have extensive contacts as well. He'd sell his history of making kids better players, not his own playing experience. A guy who knows how to hit the road in recruiting. A coach who already has ties to any of our recruiting territories would be a nice bonus.

NFL contacts and years in the league doesn't make a man a good coach. You and I have both watched as former players crashed and burned as head and assistant coaches. Just sticking to Dallas, Jim Jeffcoat had a great career. He has tried his hand at coaching DL and after 5 years with his home team Cowboys couldn't do better than Houston before not being retained there.

"Has had lots of DL coaches". Never been a prerequisite to be a good DL coach. Anecdotal.
"Has lots of NFL contacts." That worked great last time. Seriously, none of anyone's 'contacts' help a kid become a better lineman. This might make him a good agent, not necessarily a coach.
"Was a top DL." We aren't hiring him to play. He needs to be able to coach. If this is your criteria (and actually having coached DL with proven results is meaningless) why aren't we talking about LT? This criteria you call a resume reads like that of an Alumuni Ambassador not DL coach.

Randy Jordan had a good reputation as a recruiter and has produced NFL backs. Thats why he was a candidate and eventually hired. Being an alum was secondary if not lower on the list. Sure its nice, gives you a warm fuzzy. Doesn't get the job done. If there was a DL version of Randy out there I'd be happy if we hired him. Greg Ellis doesn't have that resume.

There is little to be gained but a lot to be lost by hiring a lesser candidate who happens to be an alumnus. This isn't a family business where you hire your sister's kid and no one bats an eye when he's bad at his job. This is big time college football. Since you can't be bothered to actually back up your point, how about you give me some examples of great DL coaches. Maybe show me how they did at their school or when/where/why that was ever important to RESULTS.

I can come up with a long list of great coaches who developed NFL draft picks at almost every place they went. Lets compare.



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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

Your resume didn't include any coaching experience...

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a future UNC player? Seriously? I'm not even going to dignify that with a response....

As for the rest, I have no idea if he's coaching. Which is why I asked what he's up to right now.

But let's talk hypothetical resumes for a minute. Is there a better resume than someone who has a vested interest in your school, has played under multiple D-line coaches for roughly 20 years at all 3 levels of competitive, organized football, has tons of NFL contacts, was one of the top D-linemen around during the peak of his career, and he happens to be from North Carolina?

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

Why would playing for a UNC alum be important to a recruit?

I am right. We should be hiring the best coach we can find, not the best alumnus who may not even be in coaching right now. Playing does not equal the ability to coach. They may overlap but your error is assuming they absolutely do.

I'm a fan of Greg as a player both here and in Dallas, however my fandom does not blind me into believing he could step into a major college program and do the job of DL coach, DL recruiter and everything that goes with it "just because". Is he coaching now anywhere? Does he even want to get into it? Those questions/answers more important than his status as a alum.




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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

You're right. He probably doesn't know anything about defensive linemen. Besides, no 18 year-old kids would want to play for a UNC alum with more than a decade of experience in the NFL.

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--- Jheiser3 wrote:

How about we hire a professional coach instead?

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

Is Greg Ellis employed? He needs to come on down to be the new DL coach.

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Ellis was a smart player and demonstrated excellent leadership skills at UNC and in the NFL for over a decade.

I wouldn't immediately discount him as a legitimate candidate.

Those of you that believe 10 years coaching experience is a prerequisite might take a look at item #3 on this link: www.tarheelmonthly.com/thm-dai...-62-maryland-52

and?...he doesn't go to florida if other things aren't happening around him, especially now...he's three years away from being fully vested in sc retirement system...there were outside influences involved here.



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--- stujones23 wrote:

Lawing went to Florida

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--- OnNtwo wrote:

lawing left scarolina not for a "better job" but for other reasons...he needed to get his house in order, yanno?

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Do you realize that the DL coach would be responsible for the development of almost as many players as are on the ENTIRE basketball team?

And I don't think experience is a prerequisite, it is a prerequisite. This isn't a charity or a mom and pop store.



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--- tdfon wrote:

Ellis was a smart player and demonstrated excellent leadership skills at UNC and in the NFL for over a decade.

I wouldn't immediately discount him as a legitimate candidate.

Those of you that believe 10 years coaching experience is a prerequisite might take a look at item #3 on this link: www.tarheelmonthly.com/thm-dai...-62-maryland-52

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So how does one then gain "experience" on D-line coaching? From studying under coaches? Such as being around them everyday at practice? Almost like being part of the team? Weird. I wonder if Greg has ever done that?

And somebody should let Tommy Thigpen's bosses know he didn't have the required experience necessary to accept a coaching gig as LB coach for Tennessee St.

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--- GhostOfPBG wrote:

And somebody should let Tommy Thigpen's bosses know he didn't have the required experience necessary to accept a coaching gig as LB coach for Tennessee St.

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I think the point is that Tennessee St. is where someone should start, not UNC.

But anyway, I think the answer is somewhere in between what you two are saying. I think it takes A LOT more than a good playing career to be a good college coach. You have to be able to teach, communicate, and connect with kids. No clue if Ellis has that. At the same time, being a line coach isn't so crazy that a high-IQ coach couldn't figure it out if he was a personable and driven guy