I havent seen this discussed here....but i just stumbled upon this gem....i assume it is legitimate...take a look...and look who its from!



Hi, *******! Thanks for your email! From what I understand, the NCAA is currently reviewing the Governor's report and will determine whether NCAA rules violations have taken place. I have heard that if there was no athletics department involvement in the academic fraud (e.g., arranging the fraud, asking for the fraud to take place, facilitating the fraud), that the NCAA's view is that it would not be considered a violation of NCAA rules. They also cite that it was not only student-athletes who benefited from the fraud, that "normal" students did as well.

In my view, if a student-athlete is involved in academic fraud, and the institution then allows that student-athlete to compete in intercollegiate competition, then a violation of NCAA rules has occurred. The interpretation below details how this analysis should take place. Personally, I am waiting to see what the NCAA will do with the Governor's report, if anything, before I start asking specific questions of folks on the NCAA enforcement staff and interpretative staff about how and why UNC's circumstances do not constitute violations of NCAA rules, and I'm not going to stop asking questions until I get logical answers that are based on NCAA rules and associated interpretations. Stay tuned.


Official Interpretation
Academic Fraud (I)
Date Published: September 6, 2000
Item Ref: 3

Interpretation:

The subcommittee reviewed the application of Bylaw 10.1-(b) as it relates to academic fraud and agreed that the following guidelines generally should be used in determining whether an incident of academic fraud should be reported to the NCAA as a violation of Bylaw 10.1-(b) or should be handled exclusively at the institutional level in accordance with its policies applicable to all students.


The subcommittee confirmed that an institution is required to report a violation of Bylaw 10.1-(b) any time an institutional staff member (e.g., coach, professor, tutor, teaching assistant) is knowingly involved in arranging fraudulent academic credit or false transcripts for a prospective or enrolled student-athlete, regardless of whether the institutional staff member acted alone or in concert with the prospective or enrolled student-athlete.
The subcommittee confirmed that an institution is required to report a violation of Bylaw 10-1-(b) any time a student-athlete, acting alone or in concert with others, knowingly becomes involved in arranging fraudulent academic credit or false transcripts, regardless of whether such conduct results in an erroneous declaration of eligibility.
If a student-athlete commits an academic offense (e.g., cheating on a test, plagiarism on a term paper) with no involvement of an institutional staff member, the institution is not required to report a violation of Bylaw 10.1-(b), unless the academic offense results in an erroneous declaration of eligibility and the student-athlete subsequently competes for the institution.
Finally, the subcommittee noted that in all cases in which a student-athlete knowingly engages in conduct that violates institutional policies, the institution is required to handle a student-athlete's academic offense in accordance with its established academic policies applicable to all students, regardless of whether the violation is reportable under Bylaw 10.1-(b)] or whether the student-athlete was acting alone or in concert with others. [Reference: Bylaw 10.1-(b)]





Carrie A. Doyle

Sr. Assoc. AD for Compliance

North Carolina State University

carrie_doyle@ncsu.edu

www.gopack.com/compliance

"All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties."

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They've always been involved. They're cowards who have no interest in moving their own university forward. They want to maintain the stutus quo, which for them is last in the conference and try to attack those above them.

This is proof positive of the agdogs obsession with UNC. I think every question that can be asked about any athlete currently enrolled at NCS should be asked and the bushes should be beaten from one end to the other to expose them.

If this is real, it is a major facepalm moment.

Look, what NC State and their obsessive fan base doesn't seem to understand, is that they are reading into this bylaw their own definition of "fraudulent academic credit." For all the PackPride lurkers here, I challenge you to download the NCAA bylaws. Go ahead, do it. You won't find a definition for "fraudulent academic credit." It doesn't exist. It's pretty clear that the Wolfpack fans (and apparently NC State now) are reading their own opinion of the UNC scandal into the definition. That must be true, whether they are ultimately right or wrong regarding the definition, because their definition doesn't exist anywhere else.

"Arranging fraudulent academic credit" could mean awarding course credit in any class where there is any hint of a related fraud, or it could mean awarding credit under expectations or requirements that were knowingly designed to not apply equally across all students in the classes. Or it could mean something entirely different. We don't know.

Look, the rule is ambiguous on its face. But when you take a look at precedent--Michigan, Auburn, etc.--it's pretty clear that the NCAA does not consider what happened at UNC to be a violation of NCAA rules.

I'm not buying this .....

at the end of the day all these people have to live together ..... this is too pat .......

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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--- TheSandhills wrote:

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- TheSandhills wrote:

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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Then you all don't know that fan base and their Athletic Department. This was real and if you don't think so email the the lady and ask.

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--- UNCHeel1 wrote:



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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- TheSandhills wrote:

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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Then you all don't know that fan base and their Athletic Department. This was real and if you don't think so email the the lady and ask.

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The fanbase yes but the AD? With all the cheating that goes in the SEC have you ever wondered why they rarely get caught? Because no school wants to get in a tit for tat with another.

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--- TheSandhills wrote:

As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level.

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I believe you are wrong. Sure, there are some personal relationships between/amoung groups of individuals but there are no institutional relationships that are sacred. Everyone reports to GA and there is little to no collaboration at the highest administrative levels - the two campuses act completely seperately.

Oh I think it's real. It's the typical type of chicken**** that flows from that ****hole. If that's the way they want to play the game then lets play it that way. No holds barred.

We need to understand that those that are butt hurt by their inability to shine, to achieve, or to earn recognition, constantly disparage those that do. This is a perfect example of that.

The simple fact is, NCS is low rent when compared to the majority of schools in this league. If that pizzes them off, THEY need to do the work to change the way others view them. Apparently, they're either too lazy to do that, or, they know they don't have the goods to make it happen anyway. Either way, sending out someone to try and promote their school by disparaging another is a cowardly act of desperation.

Of course, that's pretty typical for agdogs.

I know there are people here that continue to try and give the agdogs and the people associated with them the benefit of the doubt. Guys, if this isn't enough to convince you what low class, worthless, lying, low life pieces of chicken **** these people are, I don't know what to tell you.

I sent her an email asking some very specific questions about two baseball players and two basketball players; one male, one female. I'll be very interested in her response. Specifically, how different will her response be from the info coming directly from these individuals own mouths.

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--- crossman wrote:

I sent her an email asking some very specific questions about two baseball players and two basketball players; one male, one female. I'll be very interested in her response. Specifically, how different will her response be from the info coming directly from these individuals own mouths.

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keep us posted!

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--- scotlandheel wrote:



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--- crossman wrote:

I sent her an email asking some very specific questions about two baseball players and two basketball players; one male, one female. I'll be very interested in her response. Specifically, how different will her response be from the info coming directly from these individuals own mouths.

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keep us posted!

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Tell us what you asked:)

Wow. Where did you get that? UNC needs to be getting Doyle's emails through FOI to determine just how much the aggie athletic folks are involved in this.

For sure people at UNC are aware of this

For one thing the University did report the academic fraud when it was discovered, remember the Thorpe press conference? It also states that a student athlete has to know that a course was fraudulent. This was proven to be not the situation.

I agree if that's the way they want to play then we should get in the game likewise. Report anything, however trivial, to the NCAA regarding nCHEATsu.

Unfortunately, it's probably Jay Smith, Lloyd Kramer and Mary What's-her-name.

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--- GOHeelsjp wrote:

For sure people at UNC are aware of this

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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- UNCHeel1 wrote:



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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- TheSandhills wrote:

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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Then you all don't know that fan base and their Athletic Department. This was real and if you don't think so email the the lady and ask.

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The fanbase yes but the AD? With all the cheating that goes in the SEC have you ever wondered why they rarely get caught? Because no school wants to get in a tit for tat with another.

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Common sense, conventional wisdom, custom and practice... all of these things would suggest that one school's athletic department not be involved in such matters (at least openly, Tenn narced out Bama... obviously our stuff was started by state and VPI).

However, state has a few things going for it which make it believable.

1. really stupid fans and admins (in athletics anyways)
2. an inexplicable ability to forget that they are the all time cheatingest school on the east coast and collective olfactory deficiencies that have led to the widely held delusion that their **** don't stink.

My money would be on this being real, but just another example of Yow et al. pandering to the lunatic fanbase over there.

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--- ProfessorSmith wrote:



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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- UNCHeel1 wrote:



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--- bobbyjay wrote:



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--- TheSandhills wrote:

Not sure I'm buying this either. As bad as our fans and their fans get along, the institutions themselves have a fairly close relationship. They would not torpedo that relationship any sooner than we would, nor do I believe that either school would go behind the other's back like this at the administrative level. My guess is that this is the result of either UNC or NCSU fans trying to stir up trouble.

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Then you all don't know that fan base and their Athletic Department. This was real and if you don't think so email the the lady and ask.

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The fanbase yes but the AD? With all the cheating that goes in the SEC have you ever wondered why they rarely get caught? Because no school wants to get in a tit for tat with another.

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Common sense, conventional wisdom, custom and practice... all of these things would suggest that one school's athletic department not be involved in such matters (at least openly, Tenn narced out Bama... obviously our stuff was started by state and VPI).

However, state has a few things going for it which make it believable.

1. really stupid fans and admins (in athletics anyways)
2. an inexplicable ability to forget that they are the all time cheatingest school on the east coast and collective olfactory deficiencies that have led to the widely held delusion that their **** don't stink.

My money would be on this being real, but just another example of Yow et al. pandering to the lunatic fanbase over there.

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This just fuels my desire to go to the SEC.

I would pay good money to have a film of the agdogs, especially yow and her boot lickers, when someone explained to them what was happening...

State better watch themselves, with Gottfried at the helm of their b-ball program, it's only a matter of time until they are back in the NCAA cross hairs.

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--- unc80 wrote:

Wow. Where did you get that? UNC needs to be getting Doyle's emails through FOI to determine just how much the aggie athletic folks are involved in this.

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Need to be getting Yow's while we're at it. Would not surprise me in the least if there was a money trail involving Yow - Mitchell, with Kane on the receiving end.
Some UNC boosters need to hire a private investigator and get some shots of Gott with his dance team coed in a compromising position.

if this is real someone is messing up big time.
there has always been talk that a coach here or a coach there might be talking about improprieties at another school but it usually doesn't happen because coaching is fraternity that sticks together like lawyers, doctors etc. if they have a problem with illegal recruiting they usually call the offender and complain and say if you do it again we will report you and that takes care of it.that's why amato got away with the crap he was pulling.
if someone at our sister school is violating the unwritten code we will retaliate and the woofies don't want their revenue sports investigated.

Mooooooooooo...... eat more chicken

'Knowingly' involved. Well, after 300 investigations the conclusion was...........no one in the AD KNEW it was going on while it was happening. Nothing to see here.

/Hound Dog has a bad sniffer

I just sent her an email and asked.

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

I'm not buying this .....

at the end of the day all these people have to live together ..... this is too pat .......

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i wonder if frau yow put her up to this?
debbie isn't the sharpest tool in the shed.

Holy Cow College! Seriously, is someone going to make a public records request for her emails, phone records, appointments calendar?

And in honor of Butch Davis, how about requesting her personal cell phone records?

it was this: ..... "and I'm not going to stop asking questions until I get logical answers that are based on NCAA rules and associated interpretations. Stay tuned."

that's the 'bridge too far' that makes me think this is some 'you've been punked' exercise ......

maybe I'm naive .... but I just don't see the compliance person from State pressing the NCAA staff over some enforcement decision at UNC in which NC State is not involved in any way ........

if it was some factual/evidence type thing over the circumstances in recruiting a player where both schools were involved - I could see that ......... but inserting yourself into an enforcement decision/judgement regarding another school when your school has nothing to do with the situation - I just don't see that happening ...... I would think the NCAA staff or enforcement - just say - this is none of your bidness .......

I'll keep an open mind though ....

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--- GunslingerHeel wrote:

I just sent her an email and asked.

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

I'm not buying this .....

at the end of the day all these people have to live together ..... this is too pat .......

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--- HimalayanHeel wrote:

Holy Cow College! Seriously, is someone going to make a public records request for her emails, phone records, appointments calendar?

And in honor of Butch Davis, how about requesting her personal cell phone records?

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i agree with this post.

I have no idea if it's legit or not, but it would not surprise me one iota. They are perfectly capable of that level of sleaze. In grad school classes over there I remember often hearing "Our two target schools are Carolina and Georgia Tech. We want to be their peers." I even heard a couple of faculty members use the phrase "by whatever means necessary." Academically, and for that matter athletically, NCeSt is nowhere near UNC or GT. But I would not put it past them to try ANYTHING.

I tried to send an email late yesterday and it came back "undeliverable". I assumed I had the address or something wrong but checked and I had everything correct.

I was told last night that a copy had successfully been sent to various people at Carolina as well as the ACC offices but I haven't heard whether they had received a response.

The N&O ran an article today quoting Emmert as saying it appears to be only an academic issue, but the NCAA is still keeping apprised of the situation and ongoing investigations in case new evidence says otherwise.

Same thing happened to me. Isn't that interesting.

Their day is coming!

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--- trippc wrote:

I tried to send an email late yesterday and it came back "undeliverable". I assumed I had the address or something wrong but checked and I had everything correct.

I was told last night that a copy had successfully been sent to various people at Carolina as well as the ACC offices but I haven't heard whether they had received a response.

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Sorry, I haven't stayed on top of this.

Didn't the report to the board of governors end the bleeping investigations?

What's being investigated now?

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

The N&O ran an article today quoting Emmert as saying it appears to be only an academic issue, but the NCAA is still keeping apprised of the situation and ongoing investigations in case new evidence says otherwise.

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Imo, the Martin Report was the end of it, and now Emmert is confirming my thoughts. The agdogs know it's over too and they are melting down. Martin flushed them.

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--- UNC78 wrote:


Sorry, I haven't stayed on top of this.

Didn't the report to the board of governors end the bleeping investigations?

What's being investigated now?

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

The N&O ran an article today quoting Emmert as saying it appears to be only an academic issue, but the NCAA is still keeping apprised of the situation and ongoing investigations in case new evidence says otherwise.

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That's what I thought. Hopefully, it is the end of this nonsense.

The Emmert quote contained the pharse "ongoing investigations" and that threw me a little.

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--- unosee wrote:

Imo, the Martin Report was the end of it, and now Emmert is confirming my thoughts. The agdogs know it's over too and they are melting down. Martin flushed them.

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--- UNC78 wrote:


Sorry, I haven't stayed on top of this.

Didn't the report to the board of governors end the bleeping investigations?

What's being investigated now?

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

The N&O ran an article today quoting Emmert as saying it appears to be only an academic issue, but the NCAA is still keeping apprised of the situation and ongoing investigations in case new evidence says otherwise.

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I think we should keep emailing this lady until she responds. If she won't, email Yow or Woodson. Also, the ivory towers in Greensboro need to be emailed about this, a lot.

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--- UNC78 wrote:


Sorry, I haven't stayed on top of this.

Didn't the report to the board of governors end the bleeping investigations?

What's being investigated now?

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

The N&O ran an article today quoting Emmert as saying it appears to be only an academic issue, but the NCAA is still keeping apprised of the situation and ongoing investigations in case new evidence says otherwise.

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There has been talk that the republican led BOG is doing its own investigation.

UNC is not a popular institution among conservative republicans.

Regarding the last post...A person or committee can find anything they are looking for as long as they consider suppositions as fact.