Are we as physical as Alabama, UGA, etc? Are we as fast as Oregon? Do we have a blend of both like Texas A&M? How would you describe the characteristics of UNC football players and coaches? I mean, Nick Saban's demeanor is what I truly love the most. He's about winning and it shows in his personality and interviews. He's about sticking around to build something wonderful. You never hear anything about violations in the program. Have you really ever asked yourself, What is the make up UNC?

Not really a fair question yet because we just finished year 1 under Fedora. But you know he's working on developing that.

That's because they know how to hide them.

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

You never hear anything about violations in the program.
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Easy killer.

The key for Bama, which I have repeatedly for Carolina is two words:

COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT

Bama has had an insane amount of "run ins" while being on probation, but their compliance dept jumps on it and "self-reports" allowing it to go pretty much by the wayside. Our compliance dept had no idea how this thing works and fell asleep, while other folks went deeper than Bama likely would.

Saban and more importantly Bama's COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT run a tight ship.

All that said, he is a stone cold killer as a coach and if he has extended time to prep, you might as well mail it in (sorry VaTech).

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

You never hear anything about violations in the program. Have you really ever asked yourself, What is the make up UNC?

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Right now it's still muddy, but in a few years here's the goal:

- Fast, aggressive football on both sides of the ball.
- High-energy recruiting in-state and around the country.
- Innovative, fundamentally sound execution on the field.
- High-character individuals throughout the program who are leaders in the community.
- Elite athletes who also positively contribute to the classroom and University environment.

If those 5 qualities are exhibited consistently in the next 3 years, UNC will win the ACC.

I would say our football identity is "can't invest as much as those programs into football." We are not a top flight football school. We don't have their facilities or the capacity to invest back into the program like they can.

Also, once you get outside of the top tier teams you no longer can just have one single identity to build your program on. You have to constantly adjust based on what talent you get. Take Bama for example, they hand pick the players that will fit their program. Do you think UNC is handpicking the absolute best players in the country to fit their system?

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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

I would say our football identity is "can't invest as much as those programs into football." We are not a top flight football school. We don't have their facilities or the capacity to invest back into the program like they can.

Also, once you get outside of the top tier teams you no longer can just have one single identity to build your program on. You have to constantly adjust based on what talent you get. Take Bama for example, they hand pick the players that will fit their program. Do you think UNC is handpicking the absolute best players in the country to fit their system?

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You haven't seen the Loudermilk Center yet, or you're ignoring it. Kenan might not be as big as Tiger Stadium or Bryant-Denney, but it's definitely top-of-the-line.

I think your second point is loaded. Of course UNC can't handpick guys right now; they're fighting with 5 scholarships behind their back this year and next year. Given time, UNC will get the guys they need to be successful. And let's be honest - at the beginning of the year, we had no idea how Fedora and his staff would be able to get recruits to come to UNC, but the Heels STILL have a top-20 class with less than 20 recruits committed. Fedora is recruiting to his system, and has a plan for every recruit that comes to UNC.

Here's the beautiful thing, guys - Fedora is only 1 year through a 7-year deal at UNC. Barring something catastrophic, he's here for the long haul to build this program the way he wants to, and with a forward-thinking administration (man, how long have I waited to say that?) he will have the freedom to do so. But this stuff takes time. Tuscaloosa wasn't built in a day, and neither was Gainesville, Tallahassee, South Bend, or Eugene.

Is the DNA, that of the school? Is the DNA, that of the AD? Is the DNA, that of the HC, DC or OC? I mean, how do you really determine the DNA of a football program? I've heard, if we have more fans in the stadium then the players will play at a higher level. I've heard, if we get more 5 star players and we need to get all the top tier talent in NC. What about the top tier talent across the country? I've heard, our defense sucks but Alabama has an excellent defense and Texas A&M went into Alabama and beat them.

The NCAA and MooU even tried to make it about Academics. We may not be the smartest team in the country but our Academic pedigree is awesome.

I would disagree that there is a huge gap in talent level between UNC and Alabama. I would say there is a gap in talented depth. Once we get past the scholarship deductions, we will have the opportunity to fill in more holes.

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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

I would say our football identity is "can't invest as much as those programs into football." We are not a top flight football school. We don't have their facilities or the capacity to invest back into the program like they can.

Also, once you get outside of the top tier teams you no longer can just have one single identity to build your program on. You have to constantly adjust based on what talent you get. Take Bama for example, they hand pick the players that will fit their program. Do you think UNC is handpicking the absolute best players in the country to fit their system?

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We have a wonderful campus. We are in a great location. We have some of the best sports in the country within a 25 to 100 mile radius. This area have a well balance combination of women. We have a wonderful hospital. RTP is top among places to be employed. We have a few fortune 500 companies in the area. I mean, WE HAVE IT ALL.

Are WE really a true DESTINATION for these top tier athletes?

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--- relapsing wrote:

I would disagree that there is a huge gap in talent level between UNC and Alabama. I would say there is a gap in talented depth. Once we get past the scholarship deductions, we will have the opportunity to fill in more holes.

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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

I would say our football identity is "can't invest as much as those programs into football." We are not a top flight football school. We don't have their facilities or the capacity to invest back into the program like they can.

Also, once you get outside of the top tier teams you no longer can just have one single identity to build your program on. You have to constantly adjust based on what talent you get. Take Bama for example, they hand pick the players that will fit their program. Do you think UNC is handpicking the absolute best players in the country to fit their system?

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When does this question ends? Is this a thread that needs to stay pinned until WE can truly speak about OUR programs IDENTITY?

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

We have a wonderful campus. We are in a great location. We have some of the best sports in the country within a 25 to 100 mile radius. This area have a well balance combination of women. We have a wonderful hospital. RTP is top among places to be employed. We have a few fortune 500 companies in the area. I mean, WE HAVE IT ALL.

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Of those, recruits care about 3. I'll let you pick which ones those are.

I'm not debating what you said, because all of that is certainly true. But UNC's football identity isn't based on what UNC fans think...it's based on what John Q. Recruit thinks. Right now, UNC doesn't have much of an identity - and given what has happened in the last 30 months, that's a good thing. It's a clean slate to start reinventing what UNC Football means, and with Fedora doing the creating I'm happy with the direction that the program is going in.

The Loudermilk Center is nice, very nice...but overall our facilities aren't considered part of the top tier.

Just yesterday we all looked at program profitability. Like I said, we can't invest back into the program as well as other schools can.

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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

The Loudermilk Center is nice, very nice...but overall our facilities aren't considered part of the top tier.

Just yesterday we all looked at program profitability. Like I said, we can't invest back into the program as well as other schools can.

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Can you develop this more? I'm having a hard time figuring out how a school that just spent millions of dollars over the last 4 years to improve their facilities - and still has more improvements on the docket to complete - still hasn't reached the top tier.

Sleeping giant............................................. ........zzzzzz............zzzz.........zzzzz ..........zzzz.......

Go visit the facilities of the schools mentioned in the OP. It is an arms race and what we have is GREAT, but we are just catching up to speed with what is out there.

Google top facilities, read ESPN or Sports Illustrated and see what facilities they are highlighting.

Probably a more fair and relevant comparison would be to compare UNC to other ACC teams. First things first.....sign the best recruits annually in ACC (for instance, I believe we have the second best committed 2013 class in the ACC, presently.); develop and build the best facilities in the ACC; etc.

We have to dominate the ACC before we begin to stretch comparisons against SEC football powerhouse (i.e. Alabama, UGA, etc.). It's OK to use the SEC as a football blueprint, but, seriously, let's keep things in perspective!

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--- UNC85Heels wrote:

Probably a more fair and relevant comparison would be to compare UNC to other ACC teams. First things first.....sign the best recruits annually in ACC (for instance, I believe we have the second best committed 2013 class in the ACC, presently.); develop and build the best facilities in the ACC; etc.

We have to dominate the ACC before we begin to stretch comparisons against SEC football powerhouse (i.e. Alabama, UGA, etc.). It's OK to use the SEC as a football blueprint, but, seriously, let's keep things in perspective!

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I agree with this ^^^^

It’s more than the facilities. Granted, they will make an impression on a recruit, but what makes any program potentially great is the culture surrounding it. At Alabama, like most SEC schools, football is a religion. The fans are fanatics and the donors pour huge amounts of money into the program. Nick Saban’s salary is reported to be north of $5.3 million with a $100k escalator each year. The staff is paid at a level higher than almost any school in the NCAA. You can’t get tickets to home games at Bryant-Denny and its capacity is over 100,000. The administration, legislature and the majority of the population in the state, support the football program. It’s is a highly profitable enterprise and they aim to keep it that way.

By way of contrast, we need to ask ourselves “what is our culture at UNC?” Honestly. We’re not in the same league. It’s normal to wish that we were there, but that won’t change anything. I’m convinced that Coach Fedora, will improve the program here, but I’m not sure we have any of the other important cultural elements that will make UNC football like what exists in Tuscaloosa. Any of you that have been to a football Saturday in Athens, Gainesville or Fayetteville (Arkansas) or even to Clemson or Tallahassee know what I’m talking about.

Great academics, lots of pretty coeds, wonderful location; all important attributes that appeal to ALL potential students, but they’re not enough to cover all of our other shortcomings. Think about it. We don’t have a long and storied football tradition. Our administration is trying to torpedo our football program in an attempt to make their own ineptitudes less apparent. We can’t fill our stadium consistently (we can’t even fill the Dean Dome when the BB team is not winning….). Football is not a major social or cultural event to a lot of kids on campus and the media in this state hates UNC athletics.

I don’t know that there is a simple answer other than to continue to show our support for the coaches and players and keep pressure on the pin heads in charge to make Carolina football something great.

UNC's academic snobery will not allow us to recruit on a level playing field with any of these other schools....Jarran Reed is a good example.......the UNC Administration should be ashamed to handicap our program like this...As a graduate of the JC, he should qualify for admission to UNC-CH

There were two players this year on our defense, Williams and Reddick who would make the depth chart at Alabama. If you can't see that, you are truly blind. Your comments aren't too far off regarding our offense.

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--- relapsing wrote:

I would disagree that there is a huge gap in talent level between UNC and Alabama. I would say there is a gap in talented depth. Once we get past the scholarship deductions, we will have the opportunity to fill in more holes.

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--- skinnyb309 wrote:

I would say our football identity is "can't invest as much as those programs into football." We are not a top flight football school. We don't have their facilities or the capacity to invest back into the program like they can.

Also, once you get outside of the top tier teams you no longer can just have one single identity to build your program on. You have to constantly adjust based on what talent you get. Take Bama for example, they hand pick the players that will fit their program. Do you think UNC is handpicking the absolute best players in the country to fit their system?

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Tar Heel Fan getting his feet wet on this board. In regards to Carolina competing with the likes of SEC teams, we and most of the ACC are at a big disadvantage no doubt. A number of the universities in the SEC rule there perspective states they live in, or at least a good portion of it. Look at our state as an example. You have 4 ACC schools competing for fans and revenue in this state alone. Factor in ECU takes in a large portion of the fan base in the eastern part of our state. Alabama has only Auburn as a chief rival for fan support and revenue dollars. Georgia goes head to head with GT. Most know that Georgia has a much greater fan base than its instate rival the Jackets. Arkansas...well pretty much like LSU rules their state in terms of the numbers of fan support and dollars. Florida can maintain due to the numbers in population and sheer football talent within their own state. In a nutshell, when one state has so many major universities to compete for fans and revenue, the slice of pie is much smaller. If the state of North Carolina had just one or two universities splitting the proverbial fan and revenue pie they could afford the mega stadiums you find in the SEC. Like any other Carolina fan, I'd love to see our teams compete for the big prize. Is it possible? Yes! But unfortunately, we'd have to do it with one arm tied behind our backs.

It’s more than the facilities. Granted, they will make an impression on a recruit, but what makes any program potentially great is the culture surrounding it. At Alabama, like most SEC schools, football is a religion. The fans are fanatics and the donors pour huge amounts of money into the program. Nick Saban’s salary is reported to be north of $5.3 million with a $100k escalator each year. The staff is paid at a level higher than almost any school in the NCAA. You can’t get tickets to home games at Bryant-Denny and its capacity is over 100,000. The administration, legislature and the majority of the population in the state, support the football program. It’s is a highly profitable enterprise and they aim to keep it that way.
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This.

My son is a 3rd year law student at Alabama, so I have had the opportunity to go down there a couple of times.....went to the Alabama - Auburn game 2 years ago when Scam Newton was a senior - and I can tell you, that town and fanbase LIVES Alabama football. The whole town goes into mourning for a week if they lose. 105,000 seats, and they fill every one of them for every game - and they did even when Bama wasn't winning national championships. It is way different than UNC, I am afraid.

This is cultural, and I don't see it changing.

My ex is from Alabama and I'm very familiar with there fans and how life and death it is to them. Wish fans here were as rabid. Her family is split in half with the Alabama/Auburn rivalry.

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--- RJP658 wrote:

This is cultural, and I don't see it changing.

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Culture can most certainly change. Sometimes it takes a major event or a particularly charismatic leader - I believe we've had both between the NCAA investigation et. al and the hire of Fedora. These things can catalyze change. The trouble is the time component. These things always take time, and we're typically so bent on instant gratification, we can't see the shift as its occurring before our eyes.

Will it be an uphill climb? Absolutely; there are some fences to mend and some schools that have this big-time college football thing pegged that we have to compete against. But as a Carolina alum and fan (who has been waiting), what keeps me going is the hope and the potential of getting there.

Of course, the easiest way to acceleratec culture change is to win, and win a lot.

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

Nick Saban...He's about sticking around to build something wonderful.

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You mean the Nick Saban that left LSU? The Nick Saban that said he wasn't interested in leaving Miami, but left anyways? That Nick Saban?

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--- OldLeaguer wrote:



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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

Nick Saban...He's about sticking around to build something wonderful.

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You mean the Nick Saban that left LSU? The Nick Saban that said he wasn't interested in leaving Miami, but left anyways? That Nick Saban?

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Yes, the Nick that coached at many stops before he got Alabama back to the top. He's been in place now for a while and has established something special. Sometimes you have to make multiple stops before you reach your final destination.

How about this? Faster than Alabama? Maybe...More physical than Oregon yeah!The main reason football programs go to the spread-o is to compete with these teams with more depth & walk-ons that could start for most ACC teams.It takes a while to build depth in a program....so give it some time.

I think it will be similar to the basketballs in many ways philosophy wise
Up tempo and forcing turnovers

However, the academic scandal and football violations really hurt this programs reputation so I think it's going to have to be a national level program in order to get that to go away but state fans will always bring it up

You forgot to mention timeouts...

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--- wduncan07 wrote:

I think it will be similar to the basketballs in many ways philosophy wise
Up tempo and forcing turnovers

However, the academic scandal and football violations really hurt this programs reputation so I think it's going to have to be a national level program in order to get that to go away but state fans will always bring it up

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:



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--- OldLeaguer wrote:



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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

Nick Saban...He's about sticking around to build something wonderful.

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You mean the Nick Saban that left LSU? The Nick Saban that said he wasn't interested in leaving Miami, but left anyways? That Nick Saban?

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Yes, the Nick that coached at many stops before he got Alabama back to the top. He's been in place now for a while and has established something special. Sometimes you have to make multiple stops before you reach your final destination.

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Yep, pastors have been known to move, too...

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--- therabidrev wrote:



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--- AlreadyHome wrote:



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--- OldLeaguer wrote:



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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

Nick Saban...He's about sticking around to build something wonderful.

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You mean the Nick Saban that left LSU? The Nick Saban that said he wasn't interested in leaving Miami, but left anyways? That Nick Saban?

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Yes, the Nick that coached at many stops before he got Alabama back to the top. He's been in place now for a while and has established something special. Sometimes you have to make multiple stops before you reach your final destination.

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Yep, pastors have been known to move, too...

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and move people also...

I said in a post a year ago that being on probation is not a bad thing if you want to win a national championship. It is part of the business of big time football. UNC did not know how to handle the situation because it never happened before.

With Fedora as coach, I see us going the Oregon route. We are a southern school and people her love great defense and a running game but if he can win it wont matter.

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--- 110OldEast wrote:

Easy killer.

The key for Bama, which I have repeatedly for Carolina is two words:

COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT

Bama has had an insane amount of "run ins" while being on probation, but their compliance dept jumps on it and "self-reports" allowing it to go pretty much by the wayside. Our compliance dept had no idea how this thing works and fell asleep, while other folks went deeper than Bama likely would.

Saban and more importantly Bama's COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT run a tight ship.

All that said, he is a stone cold killer as a coach and if he has extended time to prep, you might as well mail it in (sorry VaTech).

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--- AlreadyHome wrote:

You never hear anything about violations in the program. Have you really ever asked yourself, What is the make up UNC?

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Lets just try to continue to have a consistent winner before we make comparisons to Oregon and Bama. Those programs have been on the right track for a few years now. Ours has been in turmoil. As for Bama and violations, all I know is that the motto of the SEC is that "if you aint cheatin, you aint tryin." They have made a science out of covering up and getting away with stuff in that conference. Dont be fooled.

We should wear steel-toed cleats and carry a pencil and paper, 'cause we're gonna kick butt and take names. That's our identity.

It took a while, but Mac Brown built a top ten program here. There is no doubt that it can be done, quod erat demonstrandum (sports board license).

I have the feeling that Fedora can and will build a program with similar success if he decides to stay here. After a few years the identity of the program will start to shape itself, and I'm hoping it looks a lot like Oregon. I just worry about keeping Fedora until he retires!

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--- heelblue wrote:

It took a while, but Mac Brown built a top ten program here. There is no doubt that it can be done, quod erat demonstrandum (sports board license).

I have the feeling that Fedora can and will build a program with similar success if he decides to stay here. After a few years the identity of the program will start to shape itself, and I'm hoping it looks a lot like Oregon. I just worry about keeping Fedora until he retires!

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It can be done. It Will B. Dunn!

Choo Choo Justice