Heel 2k Thank you for the history lesson but this....."The North likes to massage its own history to justify the war as some moral crusade when it really wasn't" NO they don't. This is what you do not understand about the people in the north. NOBODY CARES. At least in the midwest. Never one time have I been sitting around a fire drinking with my boys after a fishing trip or something and somebody said " hey what about the civil war and those southerners etc" Never ever ever once has it come up. That is exactly why " northerners" are kinda shocked when its brought up. You are looking for differences so you will find them. Guess what. If you look for similarities you will find those too.

Im pretty sure the only private school the B10 would think about is Notre Dame...BC doesnt have enough of a fanbase...UCONN, not so much either

---------------------------------------------
--- Heel2K wrote:

This is the most likely catalyst, if there is one.
UNC isn't going to be the school that destroys the ACC.

If the B12 made a huge offer to create an eastern division:
FSU, Clemson, NCSU, VTech, Wake, Miami

I'd bet those schools would listen. And if any of the rumors of SEC/b12 collusion are true, this could very well happen. NCSU and VTech obviously would rather wait for the outside chance that the SEC is available, but Wake and Miami aren't going to have any other options.

Not to mention that Louisville and Cincy would jump at the chance to go to the B12.



B12 West:
Texas, TTech, Baylor, TCU, Oklahoma, Ok State, KU, Kstate, Iowa state (Tulane)
B12 East:
WVU, Cincy, Louisville, Miami, FSU, Clemson, NCSU, VTech, GTech, (Wake)


SEC West: LSU, Arky, TAMU, Ole Miss, MSST, Auburn, Bama, Mizzou, Vandy
SEC East: UK, UVA, UNC, Duke, USCe, UF, UGA, UTenn, UMD?

B1G West: Neb, Wisc, Minn, Iowa, NW, Purdue, Illinois, IU, MSU
B1G East: Rutgers, UConn, Cuse, Pitt, PSU, ND, OSU, Michigan, BC

PAC A: Wash, Wazzu, Oregon, Or state, Cal, Stanford, Boise, Colorado, Wyoming?
PAC B: UCLA, USC, Zona, ASU, UNLV, Nevada, Utah, BYU, New Mexico?


This is all for fun. Since most likely, the ACC isn't going anywhere. But it is fun to think about.







---------------------------------------------
--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:

Dabo Swinney flat out said that Clemson going to the Big 12 would be a mistake. That the kids in their normal recruiting grounds have no desire to play in a southwestern-nased conference.

---------------------------------------------
Yep, which is why the BIG12 would need NUMEROUS universities to join. Clemson recruits would not complain if GT, FSU, Miami, NCST, VT, and WVU were all in the conference together. The obvious problem though, is that no one wants to be the first to move. It takes a great leap of faith to go first. Thusfar no one has been inclined to do that.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

very true...northerners and midwesterners stopped fighting and talking about the Civil War 100+ years ago, except in history class.

---------------------------------------------
--- phatassjungle wrote:

Heel 2k Thank you for the history lesson but this....."The North likes to massage its own history to justify the war as some moral crusade when it really wasn't" NO they don't. This is what you do not understand about the people in the north. NOBODY CARES. At least in the midwest. Never one time have I been sitting around a fire drinking with my boys after a fishing trip or something and somebody said " hey what about the civil war and those southerners etc" Never ever ever once has it come up. That is exactly why " northerners" are kinda shocked when its brought up. You are looking for differences so you will find them. Guess what. If you look for similarities you will find those too.

---------------------------------------------

Hi ya'll a cincykid here. Wondering about our fitting into the ACC, we are good enough academically, we are solid in football and hoops once again, need a big man or 2 inside but we'll take on anyone. Cincy always seems to be sucking hind teet, outside looking in with the conference shuffle. It is confusing looking at what has been accomplished in football and hoops. We kicked ass in football and sweet 16 last year in hoops. Baseball stunk last year, but put us in a better conf and that'll improve. We are not the runt of the litter at all, yet other schools move to more powerful conferences.........

On the heritage talk, you should know a lot of us in cincy have southern roots, myself included, loads of ky, tenn and nc families came up here in the 1930's, 1940's to escape working in the coal mines and the accidents that were happenning in them. Cincy is loaded with those of us with all southern heritage and we are proud of that fact. Also,

"The point of all of this is that the war was economic in origin and nature. The North was not fighting for a moral cause. Slavery was part of what gave the South economic advantages that the North tried to take advantage of, and when the South tried to leave because agreement was not possible, the North refused to allow the country to break in two."

This is what I believe and was taught up here in a political science class in the late 60's as a kid. Money, Power and Control were the issues, as with any war. I have confederate ancestors as do plenty in cincy, some yanks too....proud of them all. Furthermore, as already said, the north does not care, you'll get a larger reponse on gun control or abortion.

Cincy has quite a bit of southern style, been around the block nuff to know we fit in much better with the people in the south than the north. Much much more a southern style town than a northern town. Gateway to the south imo.

But, back to the real issue. Add UC and another quality school to the ACC and that will strengthen the ACC helping to make all the talk of it's demise a buncha BS. UC is round 139 ranked univ, 34 largest tv market and you should take into account that our FB program is doing better than it ever has. Going into the ACC would bring top football teams here and thus the attendance would jump. It would get our hoops #'s back to where they were under huggins and then some. We are in progress of upgrading both the football and hoops facilities and that alone will improve attendance imo. Please, don't forget about Cincy, we've been kicking tail wherever we go, whoever we play.

it pizzes me off to say this but:

Winning requires no explanation.


GO BLUE !!!!!

---------------------------------------------
--- buckeye4573 wrote:

very true...northerners and midwesterners stopped fighting and talking about the Civil War 100+ years ago, except in history class.


---------------------------------------------

so much for the "superior" Northern education system ........

---------------------------------------------
--- cincykid wrote:

Hi ya'll a cincykid here. Wondering about our fitting into the ACC, we are good enough academically, we are solid in football and hoops once again, need a big man or 2 inside but we'll take on anyone. Cincy always seems to be sucking hind teet, outside looking in with the conference shuffle. It is confusing looking at what has been accomplished in football and hoops. We kicked ass in football and sweet 16 last year in hoops. Baseball stunk last year, but put us in a better conf and that'll improve. We are not the runt of the litter at all, yet other schools move to more powerful conferences.........

On the heritage talk, you should know a lot of us in cincy have southern roots, myself included, loads of ky, tenn and nc families came up here in the 1930's, 1940's to escape working in the coal mines and the accidents that were happenning in them. Cincy is loaded with those of us with all southern heritage and we are proud of that fact. Also,

"The point of all of this is that the war was economic in origin and nature. The North was not fighting for a moral cause. Slavery was part of what gave the South economic advantages that the North tried to take advantage of, and when the South tried to leave because agreement was not possible, the North refused to allow the country to break in two."

This is what I believe and was taught up here in a political science class in the late 60's as a kid. Money, Power and Control were the issues, as with any war. I have confederate ancestors as do plenty in cincy, some yanks too....proud of them all. Furthermore, as already said, the north does not care, you'll get a larger reponse on gun control or abortion.

Cincy has quite a bit of southern style, been around the block nuff to know we fit in much better with the people in the south than the north. Much much more a southern style town than a northern town. Gateway to the south imo.

But, back to the real issue. Add UC and another quality school to the ACC and that will strengthen the ACC helping to make all the talk of it's demise a buncha BS. UC is round 139 ranked univ, 34 largest tv market and you should take into account that our FB program is doing better than it ever has. Going into the ACC would bring top football teams here and thus the attendance would jump. It would get our hoops #'s back to where they were under huggins and then some. We are in progress of upgrading both the football and hoops facilities and that alone will improve attendance imo. Please, don't forget about Cincy, we've been kicking tail wherever we go, whoever we play.

---------------------------------------------

here's the thing....it's over....just let it go...it's like when black folk talk about slavery....it's over...let it go...noone today is or knows a slave (except the ones in Africa that currently exist) and noone alive today was in or knows someone in the Civil War. That's one thing northerners dont get....why keep fighting the battle?

Now I will agree our government is waaaaay too big and that needs to be addressed....but it's a football board so I wont get too political.
---------------------------------------------
--- BethelRegiment wrote:

it pizzes me off to say this but:

Winning requires no explanation.


GO BLUE !!!!!

---------------------------------------------
--- buckeye4573 wrote:

very true...northerners and midwesterners stopped fighting and talking about the Civil War 100+ years ago, except in history class.


---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
--- cincykid wrote:

Hi ya'll a cincykid here. Wondering about our fitting into the ACC, we are good enough academically, we are solid in football and hoops once again, need a big man or 2 inside but we'll take on anyone. Cincy always seems to be sucking hind teet, outside looking in with the conference shuffle. It is confusing looking at what has been accomplished in football and hoops. We kicked ass in football and sweet 16 last year in hoops. Baseball stunk last year, but put us in a better conf and that'll improve. We are not the runt of the litter at all, yet other schools move to more powerful conferences.........

. . . .

But, back to the real issue. Add UC and another quality school to the ACC and that will strengthen the ACC helping to make all the talk of it's demise a buncha BS. UC is round 139 ranked univ, 34 largest tv market and you should take into account that our FB program is doing better than it ever has. Going into the ACC would bring top football teams here and thus the attendance would jump. It would get our hoops #'s back to where they were under huggins and then some. We are in progress of upgrading both the football and hoops facilities and that alone will improve attendance imo. Please, don't forget about Cincy, we've been kicking tail wherever we go, whoever we play.

---------------------------------------------

Other than Louisville, no ACC school is ranked that low, and the ACC added Louisville out of necessity. Cincinnati brings above average-to-good sports to the table, but not much else. The addition probably couldn't get ESPN to renegotiate the tv deal, so the current schools would probably get less money per year.

Cincy only gets into the ACC if Notre Dame joins full time (and thus we need 16) or if other schools leave.

every man has to have a hobby ........

I enjoy studying history as a hobby ..... but I don't get this 'pride in your Southern Heritage' business ....... and then the need to believe in a mythological version of history that supports this sort of ancestor worship ......

GO BLUE !


---------------------------------------------
--- buckeye4573 wrote:


here's the thing....it's over....just let it go...it's like when black folk talk about slavery....it's over...let it go...noone today is or knows a slave (except the ones in Africa that currently exist) and noone alive today was in or knows someone in the Civil War. That's one thing northerners dont get....why keep fighting the battle?

Now I will agree our government is waaaaay too big and that needs to be addressed....but it's a football board so I wont get too political.

haha, I have a BS in business transportation/distribution from UC too. Let it go sir.

---------------------------------------------
--- BethelRegiment wrote:

so much for the "superior" Northern education system ........

---------------------------------------------
--- cincykid wrote:

Hi ya'll a cincykid here. Wondering about our fitting into the ACC, we are good enough academically, we are solid in football and hoops once again, need a big man or 2 inside but we'll take on anyone. Cincy always seems to be sucking hind teet, outside looking in with the conference shuffle. It is confusing looking at what has been accomplished in football and hoops. We kicked ass in football and sweet 16 last year in hoops. Baseball stunk last year, but put us in a better conf and that'll improve. We are not the runt of the litter at all, yet other schools move to more powerful conferences.........

On the heritage talk, you should know a lot of us in cincy have southern roots, myself included, loads of ky, tenn and nc families came up here in the 1930's, 1940's to escape working in the coal mines and the accidents that were happenning in them. Cincy is loaded with those of us with all southern heritage and we are proud of that fact. Also,

"The point of all of this is that the war was economic in origin and nature. The North was not fighting for a moral cause. Slavery was part of what gave the South economic advantages that the North tried to take advantage of, and when the South tried to leave because agreement was not possible, the North refused to allow the country to break in two."

This is what I believe and was taught up here in a political science class in the late 60's as a kid. Money, Power and Control were the issues, as with any war. I have confederate ancestors as do plenty in cincy, some yanks too....proud of them all. Furthermore, as already said, the north does not care, you'll get a larger reponse on gun control or abortion.

Cincy has quite a bit of southern style, been around the block nuff to know we fit in much better with the people in the south than the north. Much much more a southern style town than a northern town. Gateway to the south imo.

But, back to the real issue. Add UC and another quality school to the ACC and that will strengthen the ACC helping to make all the talk of it's demise a buncha BS. UC is round 139 ranked univ, 34 largest tv market and you should take into account that our FB program is doing better than it ever has. Going into the ACC would bring top football teams here and thus the attendance would jump. It would get our hoops #'s back to where they were under huggins and then some. We are in progress of upgrading both the football and hoops facilities and that alone will improve attendance imo. Please, don't forget about Cincy, we've been kicking tail wherever we go, whoever we play.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

you should have taken a history class in between your truck driving courses .............


(cheap shot -- sorry -- couldn't resist) ......

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--- cincykid wrote:

haha, I have a BS in business transportation/distribution from UC too. Let it go sir.

It is also true that if the Big 12 comes callin' UC would be haulin' out there. I think admin is interested in the ACC first though. But, there are plenty who think the Big12 would be a better fit. fwiw.

You'd be surprised how much history I know.....read boo coos of history. Lots of civil war stuff too. Truck driver, nope ran the regional blood banks distribution, product mngt dept for 30 years, retired now. Would love to go to gettysburg and normandy sometime. Checked out chattanooga/chicam. Had cousin who lived on lookout mnt.

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

you should have taken a history class in between your truck driving courses .............


(cheap shot -- sorry -- couldn't resist) ......

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--- cincykid wrote:

haha, I have a BS in business transportation/distribution from UC too. Let it go sir.

---------------------------------------------

apparently at least some of what you think you know about the Civil War is just wrong ...... I will refer you to the same Slotkin book I mentioned in an earlier post .... Slotkin - "The Long Road to Antietam" ..... published in 2012 ..... does a brilliant job of explaining the political background leading up to the War and answers Heel2k's earlier questions about why emancipation of the slaves didn't come up until the War was more than a year old ........

the crack about truck driving classes was just a cheap shot .... remember the source ..... :)

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--- cincykid wrote:

You'd be surprised how much history I know.....read boo coos of history. Lots of civil war stuff too. Truck driver, nope ran the regional blood banks distribution, product mngt dept for 30 years, retired now. Would love to go to gettysburg and normandy sometime. Checked out chattanooga. Had cousin who lived on lookout mnt.

Pride in one's heritage is not just a Southern thing; it just happens to fit the discussion here. To not get it is to not get the common bonds that make up a culture. I sense you really mean I-don't-approve-of-this-Southern-Heritage-business rather than "don't get".

You see the same kind of pride at a St Patrick's Day parade e.g.or Bastille Day in Paris.

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

every man has to have a hobby ........

I enjoy studying history as a hobby ..... but I don't get this 'pride in your Southern Heritage' business ....... and then the need to believe in a mythological version of history that supports this sort of ancestor worship ......

GO BLUE !


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--- buckeye4573 wrote:


here's the thing....it's over....just let it go...it's like when black folk talk about slavery....it's over...let it go...noone today is or knows a slave (except the ones in Africa that currently exist) and noone alive today was in or knows someone in the Civil War. That's one thing northerners dont get....why keep fighting the battle?

Now I will agree our government is waaaaay too big and that needs to be addressed....but it's a football board so I wont get too political.

---------------------------------------------

^^^^ I'll make it a point to check out. You guys go put in a good word for us up here in cincy......deal? lol

+ I don't get having an emotional connection ('pride') in ancestors from 100+ years ago with whom I have no real connection .....

+ I'm interested in knowing the history ..... and really kind of resent (you can probably tell) this whole Lost Cause Mythology - which you see glimpses of on here -- that is real distortion of the actual history of the 19th century and the Civil War ...... think for a minute of how much of the history of 1800 - 1860 you have to ignore or simply be ignorant of to somehow believe that slavery was not at the center of the North-South conflict ....... people not only don't know the actual history of the U.S. ..... they don't know the history of the myths (the Lost Cause Myth) they are repeating --- they just parrot this nonsense without even knowing where it came from .........

so we end up with: "I want to be proud of my Southern Heritage ..... and if slavery was really what motivated the South to secede that doesn't sound good ...... so I'll believe in some mythological version of history which doesn't disturb my pride in my Southern ancestors" ........

so "History" is not what actually happened ..... it's whatever you need to believe that makes you feel good ......


---------------------------------------------
--- ChancellorHouse wrote:

Pride in one's heritage is not just a Southern thing; it just happens to fit the discussion here. To not get it is to not get the common bonds that make up a culture. I sense you really mean I-don't-approve-of-this-Southern-Heritage-business rather than "don't get".

You see the same kind of pride at a St Patrick's Day parade e.g.or Bastille Day in Paris.



---------------------------------------------

So it is I-don't-approve rather than I don't get.

I don't think there are many Southerners who defend slavery. Perhaps try to round a few edges against those from "off" whose real motivation is tearing down the Southern conservative traditions held TODAY as somehow grounded in a racist past and therefore illegitimate.

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--- Heel2K wrote:

The key to all of this is who moves first. The SEC and B1G have the most power. The schools not already in either (or the PAC) with at least some real value are:

ND, Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, UNC, UVA, VTech, NCSU, Duke, Clemson, GTech, Kansas.

The other schools in the ACC and B12 (and other leagues) could be considered if the SEC and B1G mandate larger leagues.

Destabilizing the ACC or the B12 is the next piece of the puzzle.

Realistically, the SEC and B1G will set the magic number, with the PAC hoping to pick up a few value schools, and the B12/ACC/BE leftovers forming the last conference. The question is what number do the B1G and SEC go to?

---------------------------------------------

Notre Dame's been flirting with this other conference on Facebook, but nobody's ever seen this other conference in person.

Fla st and ncst are around 97 and ohhh 108 or so I believe. Louvulle is 160 or 170. We have a quality design, art, architech. dept and our engineering school is top notch. Medical is decent too. Quality is on the uptick. Like football.

---------------------------------------------
--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:

For what it's worth, the big rumor now is that Miami has decided that it's in their interest to move out of the ACC. We'll see if that's true or not.

The BIG12 has a meeting on January 29th with conference expansion as an agenda item. If this Miami rumor has any legs, something will happen not too far down the road from that meeting.

---------------------------------------------

This rumor from the WVU fans is at least believable, especially given the statements coming from the Big 12.

FSU still has a shot at the Big Ten. It's not going with Miami. Clemson doesn't want the ACC to fall apart and knows it will get a Big 12 invite whenever it asks for one.

If the Big 12 really wanted to push for Clemson and FSU, it would invite Miami and Wake--the two schools who would actually go to the Big 12 that bookend FSU and Clemson. It probably forces the Big Ten into action, and if the Big Ten doesn't invite FSU right away, it might get nervous (although I don't know why) and take Clemson along with it to the Big 12.

---------------------------------------------

Every TV set in NC would be turned on to those epic Wake-Texas Tech battles. And they could play Baylor in the Baptist Bowl, too.

---------------------------------------------
--- therabidrev wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- Heel2K wrote:

The key to all of this is who moves first. The SEC and B1G have the most power. The schools not already in either (or the PAC) with at least some real value are:

ND, Texas, Oklahoma, FSU, UNC, UVA, VTech, NCSU, Duke, Clemson, GTech, Kansas.

The other schools in the ACC and B12 (and other leagues) could be considered if the SEC and B1G mandate larger leagues.

Destabilizing the ACC or the B12 is the next piece of the puzzle.

Realistically, the SEC and B1G will set the magic number, with the PAC hoping to pick up a few value schools, and the B12/ACC/BE leftovers forming the last conference. The question is what number do the B1G and SEC go to?

---------------------------------------------

Notre Dame's been flirting with this other conference on Facebook, but nobody's ever seen this other conference in person.

---------------------------------------------
^^^^^ lol.....

"Already home to many of the nation's best-financed college athletics programs, the Southeastern Conference is about two years from distributing at least $10 million -- and perhaps as much as $14 million -- more per school than it did during the 2011-12 fiscal year, a USA TODAY Sports analysis projects."

SEC revenue set to jump 50% with playoff, new TV deals

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

I just don't relate to 'proud' or 'not proud' as far as my ancestors 150 years ago ...... the facts of history are what they are ..... many people who in their time and place would have been considered honorable people participated in and enjoyed the fruits of the slave labor system of the South - it was a different time and place .......

I have a number of friends in the Sons of Confederate Veterans which as an organization traffics in a highly distorted and romanticized history of secession and the Civil War that would be unrecognizable to the people living at that time ....... I just don't get it .......

my great grandfather was a soldier in the Bethel Regiment - 11th NC Volunteers ..... he was right in the center of Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg ...... and that's an interesting tid-bit to know, but his participation doesn't change the fact that Pickett's Charge was an unmitigated disaster for the Confederate Army ........



if you want to embrace the Lost Cause view of Southern Heritage -- here's a bit of it for you to put your arms around ......

from Edw. Pollard - "The Lost Cause" ..... publ. 1866 (Pollard was a prominent Richmond newspaper editor):

"The North naturally found or imagined in slavery the leading cause of the distinctive civilization of the South, its higher sentimentalism, and its superior refinements of scholarship and manners. It revenged itself on the cause, diverted its envy in an attack upon slavery, and defamed the institution as the relic of barbarism and the sum of all villainies. But, whatever may have been the defamation of the institution of slavery, no man can write its history without recognizing contributions and naming prominent results beyond the domain of controversy. It bestowed on the world's commerce in a half-century a single product whose annual value was two hundred millions of dollars. It founded a system of industry by which labour and capital were identified in interest, and capital therefore protected labour. It exhibited the picture of a land crowned with abundance, where starvation was unknown, where order was preserved by an unpaid police; and where many fertile regions accessible only to the labour of the African were brought into usefulness, and blessed the world with their productions.

We shall not enter upon the discussion of the moral question of slavery. But we may suggest a doubt here whether that odious term "slavery," which has been so long imposed, by the exaggeration of Northern writers, upon the judgment and sympathies of the world, is properly applied to that system of servitude in the South which was really the mildest in the world; which did not rest on acts of debasement and disenfranchisement, but elevated the African, and was in the interest of human improvement; and which, by the law of the land, protected the negro in life and limb, and in many personal rights, and, by the practice of the system, bestowed upon him a sum of individual indulgences, which made him altogether the most striking type in the world of cheerfulness and contentment. ....."


it's hard to pick out just one favorite gem from the above ..... maybe the bit about how the slave system "by which labour and capital were identified in interest" (ie, had the same interests) ......


---------------------------------------------
--- therabidrev wrote:

Bethel, Bethel, Bethel...

I'm reminded of the title of a book in my 6,000+ volume library, "First At Big Bethel, Furthest at Gettysburg, Last At Appomattox." Perhaps you've read it?

I speak from informed pride, not ignorance. You have good roots at Lenoir-Rhyne, which I greatly respect considering the fact that my parents were both L-R alumni, and I have no doubt that you are "good people," but we can agree to disagree here. I've also read extensively about the South, from 1584 to 2013, and unoffically majored in the study of her at Carolina. I took every regional course offered at UNC at the time. And I've also read outside the parameters of a politically correct liberal arts education. Yet I am still unashamed to be who and what I am. I don't have the stats in front of me, but historians who are much more gifted than either of us still differ on these details.

You personally may not have demonized the South, but I assure you that countless others have, as it is commonplace in higher ed to do so, and widely accepted as well. When I raised my son, I wanted him to have a balanced perspective, because historiography ALWAYS favors those who win the wars: the winners invariably write the history books. I choose not to live with the condemnation of generations past; I am only guilty of my sins, not the manifold sins of others, and to assume otherwise is to minimize the sacrifice of The One Who Bore My Sins and exalt myself. When I literally wash the feet of African-Americans and "people from the wrong side of Mason-Dixon," I do so out of genuine Christian love and humility, not guilt.

Yet I still get goosebumps when I hear Dixie. So, shoot me...

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Pollard was certainly syrupy. I've never read his work before. I don't subscribe to quite that sentimental of a concept of the Old South and the war. I do know, for example, that the two wealthiest states in the US in 1860 were SC and La. Have they been in the Top Ten since? Or the Top 40, even?

Yes, Pickett's Charge was a ridiculous waste of good men's lives. Gen. Lee made a mistake, and the CSA margin for error didn't allow for many major mistakes like that.

I am eligible for membership in the SCV, but because the activities of at least one wing of that organization are questionable (or so I've been told by insiders) I have chosen not to join. Although I am certainly proud of my fighting Confederate ancestors from the family trees of all 4 grandparents, I believe such membership would hurt my ministry, as a large percentage of the people I reach are persons of color.




BTW, concerning FSU to the B1G, I've also been approached by them to be the commissioner-in-waiting. I'm negotiating at present. I've asked for more money, of course, but also an enclosed, environmentally controlled scale model of Lake Waccamaw in my back yard, and daily flights from NC bringing fresh BBQ. When pigs fly...

---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:


---------------------------------------------
--- Carolina2009 wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:


Sounding like Miami and Clemson to the Big12. No mention of FSU. Could FSU be getting a B1G invite? The state of Florida is tuff to pass up.

---------------------------------------------

Supposedly Clemson had the opportunity to jump to the Big 12 before with FSU but declined. I can't see why they would suddenly decide to go now with Miami unless defections to the Big Ten are imminent.

---------------------------------------------

Dabo Swinney flat out said that Clemson going to the Big 12 would be a mistake. That the kids in their normal recruiting grounds have no desire to play in a southwestern-based conference.

---------------------------------------------

And Dabo would be correct.

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--- phatassjungle wrote:

Heel 2k Thank you for the history lesson but this....."The North likes to massage its own history to justify the war as some moral crusade when it really wasn't" NO they don't. This is what you do not understand about the people in the north. NOBODY CARES. At least in the midwest. Never one time have I been sitting around a fire drinking with my boys after a fishing trip or something and somebody said " hey what about the civil war and those southerners etc" Never ever ever once has it come up. That is exactly why " northerners" are kinda shocked when its brought up. You are looking for differences so you will find them. Guess what. If you look for similarities you will find those too.

---------------------------------------------

phat, I'm sure the Civil War isn't spoken of often in the Midwest. Like you said, nobody cares. It didn't destroy a huge percentage of your male population, decimate your infrastructure, and subjugate your entire region. I get that. We're not still fighting the war, at least I'm not, but in the South we still feel the effects of it.

And sure, there are commonalities between the two regions, as well as differences. We are all Americans...

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--- cincykid wrote:

^^^^ I'll make it a point to check out. You guys go put in a good word for us up here in cincy......deal? lol

---------------------------------------------

I've hung out in your city. It's not a bad place. Good chili! I was at Great American Ballpark when Griffey had 499 homers and was swinging for his 500th. I see a lot of parallels between your school and Louisville, and many of us were surprised when the ACC invited them. Not that they're not a good addition, they are, but it was a surprise.

Who knows what the future holds regarding expansion?

I have a deep emotional bond to my now deceased parents both of whom I have a tremendous amount of respect and affection ....... I have no similar emotional bond (respect / pride / whatever) to my great grandfather who lived a 100 years ago ...... it's interesting to know a little bit about his history but it really doesn't make any difference to me whether he was a fine Southern gentleman or a dirty rotten S.O.B. ...... if other people have that kind of emotional connection with long lost ancestors - it's not up to me to approve or disapprove - I simply don't share those feelings ........

and I have ancestors on my mother's side who had a small slave plantation in West Tennessee - I don't know much about them ...... my cousin - who still lives on part of this land and operates a dairy farm - couldn't be a nicer person ...... if his great grandpappy was a slave-owner - so what ? ..........

I don't know of anyone who really defends slavery today .... in fact slavery is one of those things that is pretty much uniformly despised ..... and as a consequence - there is a whole cadre of people in the South - most publicly exemplified by the Sons of Confederate Veterans - who as part of some "Southern Pride / Southern Heritage" thing feel they must remove slavery from the central role it played in secession and the Civil War in order to clean up their forebearers so that they are suitable objects/persons for ancestor worship today - ie, Confederate Memorial Day, etc. .......

so you end up with people like you've seen a little bit on here who have this highly bent view of history that is just wildly at odds with what really happened ....... so if I disapprove of something - it is simply this corrupted history narrative that for some people accompanies all this ancestor worship business ......

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--- ChancellorHouse wrote:

So it is I-don't-approve rather than I don't get.

I don't think there are many Southerners who defend slavery. Perhaps try to round a few edges against those from "off" whose real motivation is tearing down the Southern conservative traditions held TODAY as somehow grounded in a racist past and therefore illegitimate.

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I wish any conversation about the SEC didn't have to include some Civil War debate. Other than a handful of Forget Hellers in the fanbase, the SEC isn't some kind of Old South museum. It's a group of progressive, dynamic universities.

hence --

The Ole Miss "Rebels"
LSU "Tigers"
and
Tennessee "Volunteers"****


*****though Volunteers predates the Civil War ...



it's just a long cease fire .......

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--- NaturalStateReb wrote:

I wish any conversation about the SEC didn't have to include some Civil War debate. Other than a handful of Forget Hellers in the fanbase, the SEC isn't some kind of Old South museum. It's a group of progressive, dynamic universities.

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--- NaturalStateReb wrote:

I wish any conversation about the SEC didn't have to include some Civil War debate. Other than a handful of Forget Hellers in the fanbase, the SEC isn't some kind of Old South museum. It's a group of progressive, dynamic universities.

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Um...

www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-5...-obama-protest/

Louvulle and cincy fans hung together in the past at tournaments. Same for memphis fans before the big least split us up. Who knows what'll happen down the road? Just tired of being on the outside looking in. Not like we are a poor academic school or field crummy athletics.

Go Reds, we're fired up for this year up here.

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--- therabidrev wrote:



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--- cincykid wrote:

^^^^ I'll make it a point to check out. You guys go put in a good word for us up here in cincy......deal? lol

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I've hung out in your city. It's not a bad place. Good chili! I was at Great American Ballpark when Griffey had 499 homers and was swinging for his 500th. I see a lot of parallels between your school and Louisville, and many of us were surprised when the ACC invited them. Not that they're not a good addition, they are, but it was a surprise.

Who knows what the future holds regarding expansion?

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...BoT...schools....getting close...

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:


3 tOSU connections. 1 BoT, 2 big boosters. Mixed with what reputable posters/Insiders. Lots of pieces to the puzzle.

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Are you able to say what part of the information came from the BoT member? The immediacy? The schools involved?

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--- NaturalStateReb wrote:

I wish any conversation about the SEC didn't have to include some Civil War debate. Other than a handful of Forget Hellers in the fanbase, the SEC isn't some kind of Old South museum. It's a group of progressive, dynamic universities.

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Certainly in business negotiations they are quite savvy.

Back to the side issue here, on southern pride, the mountain men or the scotts-irish in the mountains were extremely important in turning round the revolutionary war. They appeared after charlestown was taken by the brits and helped turn things around i believe. Why wouldn't you be proud of that? I am. The first cattle ranches, cowboys, were in fla. The lathe originated in Ky.

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--- therabidrev wrote:



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--- phatassjungle wrote:

Heel 2k Thank you for the history lesson but this....."The North likes to massage its own history to justify the war as some moral crusade when it really wasn't" NO they don't. This is what you do not understand about the people in the north. NOBODY CARES. At least in the midwest. Never one time have I been sitting around a fire drinking with my boys after a fishing trip or something and somebody said " hey what about the civil war and those southerners etc" Never ever ever once has it come up. That is exactly why " northerners" are kinda shocked when its brought up. You are looking for differences so you will find them. Guess what. If you look for similarities you will find those too.

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phat, I'm sure the Civil War isn't spoken of often in the Midwest. Like you said, nobody cares. It didn't destroy a huge percentage of your male population, decimate your infrastructure, and subjugate your entire region. I get that. We're not still fighting the war, at least I'm not, but in the South we still feel the effects of it.

And sure, there are commonalities between the two regions, as well as differences. We are all Americans...

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Really Rabid? You still feel the effects? I got to hear this. Also you mentioned the Waccamah. Ive spent many of moonshine drinking, Oyster cracking, gun shooting nights on the river. Good times.

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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

...BoT...schools....getting close...

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:


3 tOSU connections. 1 BoT, 2 big boosters. Mixed with what reputable posters/Insiders. Lots of pieces to the puzzle.

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Are you able to say what part of the information came from the BoT member? The immediacy? The schools involved?

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Now THAT is interesting.

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--- cincykid wrote:

Back to the side issue here, on southern pride, the mountain men or the scotts-irish in the mountains were extremely important in turning round the revolutionary war. They appeared after charlestown was taken by the brits and helped turn things around i believe. Why wouldn't you be proud of that? I am.

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Southerners have always fought for state sovereignty. It's in her core!

And that is why they have such heated rivalries in football (and why its product is so good, imo): Alabama-Tennessee game is much more than a football game...it's two states going to battle for supremacy. For a year of bragging right, anyway!

Ya I have done a loty of traveling to fla and hilton head, plenty of other beaches over the years. I have always been inspired by the convoys of window flag laiden vehicles rollin' down the interstate on saturday's. Been caught in those massive traffic jams......lol. That's what makes sports fun. Also blew me away when at rupp during an ncaa elite 8, the miss st in tourney and ky fans - who were there to watch, began with a S E C chant, and sustained it. That's what conferences and rivalries are supposed to be about.

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--- MFC Heel wrote:



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--- cincykid wrote:

Back to the side issue here, on southern pride, the mountain men or the scotts-irish in the mountains were extremely important in turning round the revolutionary war. They appeared after charlestown was taken by the brits and helped turn things around i believe. Why wouldn't you be proud of that? I am.

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Southerners have always fought for state sovereignty. It's in her core!

And that is why they have such heated rivalries in football (and why its product is so good, imo): Alabama-Tennessee game is much more than a football game...it's two states going to battle for supremacy. For a year of bragging right, anyway!

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--- phatassjungle wrote:



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--- therabidrev wrote:



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--- phatassjungle wrote:

Heel 2k Thank you for the history lesson but this....."The North likes to massage its own history to justify the war as some moral crusade when it really wasn't" NO they don't. This is what you do not understand about the people in the north. NOBODY CARES. At least in the midwest. Never one time have I been sitting around a fire drinking with my boys after a fishing trip or something and somebody said " hey what about the civil war and those southerners etc" Never ever ever once has it come up. That is exactly why " northerners" are kinda shocked when its brought up. You are looking for differences so you will find them. Guess what. If you look for similarities you will find those too.

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phat, I'm sure the Civil War isn't spoken of often in the Midwest. Like you said, nobody cares. It didn't destroy a huge percentage of your male population, decimate your infrastructure, and subjugate your entire region. I get that. We're not still fighting the war, at least I'm not, but in the South we still feel the effects of it.

And sure, there are commonalities between the two regions, as well as differences. We are all Americans...

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Really Rabid? You still feel the effects? I got to hear this. Also you mentioned the Waccamah. Ive spent many of moonshine drinking, Oyster cracking, gun shooting nights on the river. Good times.

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Look at the rankings of the 50 states in almost anything. The 11 former Confederate states are almost always near the bottom. Yes, economically we still feel the effects of the Reconstruction, however slight they may be. And in stereotypes, etc., Southerners are a group that it is still PC to bash. When slurs, even the most subtle are used against people of another race, gender or orientation, they are referred to as microinequities. We are the target of microinequities daily.