Buckeye, you have just lost all credibility. Mississippi and Louisiana are not different from the Midwest?

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

I have too and i have family in ms and la.....its not different....the east and ne is different....but thats not the midwest....... again im not sure what people mean in terms of general mindset....how so?

A couple of other things....noone runs the b10......ask anyone....noone does....all schools are equal....and alot of the rwason si...is its not just about athletics....which is why the administration of any school would pick the b10 over every conference except the ivy....which is an athletic conference as well...but its obviously much more than that....and so is the b10.

As for not fitting in....i dont buy that...unc, ga tech, and uva are much more like the b10 than the sec....they realize football is second to academics. Texas is the same way...the academics would join in seconds.....but the athletics dept wont for various reason....even notre dame would have joined if the academics had there way...but give up on notre dame joining...its not gonna happen unless they absolutely have to.


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--- rock06 wrote:



I've lived in both the south & Midwest as well & there's a definite difference

But it's a general mindset more than one specific, tangible thing


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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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Here we go again. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There IS a Southern culture. And to some of us who have ancestors that have been here for generations, it is important to us. It is not up to somebody from Ohio of all places to define what Southern culture is or isn't. If you have to ask, you clearly don't get it. But there is a reason why a solid majority of posters on here prefer the SEC to the B1G if it comes to it.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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--- ChancellorHouse wrote:



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--- DrStrangelove wrote:



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Could you explain how the SEC's academics will surpass the B1G in a mere 20 years? Are you under the impression that the Midwest is completely emptying out of people and that all those states are dead broke?

Michigan's endowment is about $5 billion larger than anyone in the SEC except for Texas A&M...you see the SEC closing that gap and surging ahead of it in only 20 years?

Do economic and demographic trends last forever?

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Economic and demographic trends don't last forever. That is a good point. In fact, retirement communities outside the traditional warmer climes are becoming more and more popular.

On the other hand, judging by Charleston, SC, the midwest must be rapidly emptying of people.

www.charlestoncitypaper.com/ch...ent?oid=1946300

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Ultimately the single biggest reason people move to other states is JOBS. Right now, thanks to the crash of '07-08, many states in the Sun Belt, particularly the Carolinas, Georgia, Florida, and out west, Arizona and Nevada, are suffering from unemployment rates equal or even greater to the rates throughout much of the North. If that persists for a long time then I would expect migration to certainly slow down. A lot of southern states saw growth rates of 20%+ in the 80's and 90's. I think that's not going to be sustainable in this climate.

Thanks, BamainCarolina.

I also get the feeling that Notre Dame may not be all that enamored with the B1G's culture either. About a week ago, a Wall Street Journal article noted that even though it was a couple of lifetimes ago, ND still remembers being rejected by the Big Ten in part because of its Catholicism. ND was forced to go independent. The article also noted that ND would not necessarily feel comfortable in a conference composed of very large public schools.

It may be that the mix of schools in the ACC, with Miami, Syracuse, dook, Wake Forest and Boston College all well thought of private schools, would make for a more comfortable home if there is to be conference alignment.

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

Here we go again. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There IS a Southern culture. And to some of us who have ancestors that have been here for generations, it is important to us. It is not up to somebody from Ohio of all places to define what Southern culture is or isn't. If you have to ask, you clearly don't get it. But there is a reason why a solid majority of posters on here prefer the SEC to the B1G if it comes to it.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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It's silly to think that the SEC will surpass the BIG in academics or endowments anytime soon, but it is reasonable to think the gap may narrow. With the lack of investment in education in the south... could flip back even more dramatically in the other direction as well.

NC current ruling junta would love to destroy public education.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn



The reason you don't see much difference is likely because you live in an area with a bunch of other people that moved here too!
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I've been lurking on your site since the FSU/Big12 talk last year trying to gauge wher your fanbase/alumni stands on which conference you guys would prefer if the ACC continued to lose schools. It is pretty apparent from everything I've read over that time that the majority of the fanbase/alumni would prefer the SEC over the B1G. You guys will definitely have your pick, since you guys are probably the #1 choice for both the SEC & B1G.

I have also been amused at how these B1G fans have come on your board and seem to think that you guys going to the B1G is a foregone conclusion. I doubt very seriously that anyone on this board, or on their schools boards have any idea what is actually going to happen, because it hasn't happened yet. Slive & Delany aren't sitting in some smoke filled room, dividing up the ACC. Could the end result happen like the B1G fans think? Sure it can, but it won't be because Slive and Delany are working hand in hand. Everything I've heard and read points to Slive's goals (if the ACC does implode) are UNC/UVA #1choice, UNC/Duke #1A, UNC/VT #2, and NCST/VT #3. If UNC wants in the SEC, that is where they will end up.

For the UNC fans/alumni that prefer the SEC to the B1G, I would suggest contacting the powers that be at UNC and continue to apply your displeasure in going to the B1G. The pressure from the fansbase/alumni can have a huge effect on the decisions of the PTB. Just look at aTm as an example. The pressure their fanbase put on the PTB at their school definitely had an effect. Same with Mizzou. But if you guys don't continue to voice your opinion, then the PTB could look favorably at the B1G.

I know you guys prefer to keep the ACC intact as is. But if that turns out to not be plausible, continue to keep up the pressure on the PTB at UNC. It isn't a foregone conlusion that you'll be in the B1G, so make your voice heard. Because if the SEC can't have UNC, they will take NCST, and I don't think the majority of you want that to happen.

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--- bamatab wrote:

I've been lurking on your site since the FSU/Big12 talk last year trying to gauge wher your fanbase/alumni stands on which conference you guys would prefer if the ACC continued to lose schools. It is pretty apparent from everything I've read over that time that the majority of the fanbase/alumni would prefer the SEC over the B1G. You guys will definitely have your pick, since you guys are probably the #1 choice for both the SEC & B1G.

I have also been amused at how these B1G fans have come on your board and seem to think that you guys going to the B1G is a foregone conclusion. I doubt very seriously that anyone on this board, or on their schools boards have any idea what is actually going to happen, because it hasn't happened yet. Slive & Delany aren't sitting in some smoke filled room, dividing up the ACC. Could the end result happen like the B1G fans think? Sure it can, but it won't be because Slive and Delany are working hand in hand. Everything I've heard and read points to Slive's goals (if the ACC does implode) are UNC/UVA #1choice, UNC/Duke #1A, UNC/VT #2, and NCST/VT #3. If UNC wants in the SEC, that is where they will end up.

For the UNC fans/alumni that prefer the SEC to the B1G, I would suggest contacting the powers that be at UNC and continue to apply your displeasure in going to the B1G. The pressure from the fansbase/alumni can have a huge effect on the decisions of the PTB. Just look at aTm as an example. The pressure their fanbase put on the PTB at their school definitely had an effect. Same with Mizzou. But if you guys don't continue to voice your opinion, then the PTB could look favorably at the B1G.

I know you guys prefer to keep the ACC intact as is. But if that turns out to not be plausible, continue to keep up the pressure on the PTB at UNC. It isn't a foregone conlusion that you'll be in the B1G, so make your voice heard. Because if the SEC can't have UNC, they will take NCST, and I don't think the majority of you want that to happen.

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...because NC State would never be above .500 or be in a bowl game again. That would be very sad.

It's a good thing fans don't make decisions, way too emotional. Just remember what 'fans' stands for.

Those who don't understand our desire to remain in a southern conference don't know how deep this feeling runs. As many here can attest, I am probably one of the two or three most liberal posters on this site. I would probably fit in the communist party in Moscow in 1921. However, I could not be more adamant in my opposition to going to the rustbelt conference.

I am the child of a professor educated at dook and Carolina (who taught at both) and I am very familiar with academics. I lived in Michigan for two years and to say that we would like association with rustbelt types as much as those from UGA, FLA, Vandy, Baja Carolina and ALA (likely eastern conference schools except ALA)is beyond asinine.

The ACC ain't going anywhere and neither is UNC.

state college has been invited to the MAC but will have to take Dan Kane with them and pay an entry fee of 50 million dollars. The National Enquirer is going to foot the bill as long as pecker-head pride goes with the wolf pecker heads.

There are no other sources as full of BS as as pecker-head pride and Dan Kane and well worth the National Enquirer Investment.

More likely to happen... The SEC catches the B1G in academics or the B1G catches the SEC in athletics (and by athletics I mean football, baseball's a pipe dream)?

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--- buckEYEdr2B wrote:

More likely to happen... The SEC catches the B1G in academics or the B1G catches the SEC in athletics (and by athletics I mean football, baseball's a pipe dream)?

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Well, neither is likely, but the SEC catching the Big Ten in academics in the next 50 years would be virtually impossible.

Not if the SEC adds UVA, UNC, and Duke.

I would think that a grouping of Vandy, UNC, UVA, Duke, Florida, Georgia, Texas A&M, Missouri, and Alabama would likely compare very favorably to the top schools in the B1G academically.

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- buckEYEdr2B wrote:

More likely to happen... The SEC catches the B1G in academics or the B1G catches the SEC in athletics (and by athletics I mean football, baseball's a pipe dream)?

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Well, neither is likely, but the SEC catching the Big Ten in academics in the next 50 years would be virtually impossible.

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Look, we know where you stand and where you are coming from. But MOST of us prefer the SEC by a wide margin. It is YOU that won't be missed.

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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Be careful, you almost totally outed yourself as the basketball only fan you really are.

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I will continue to support UNC football regardless of which conference we are in, and I will continue to travel to watch UNC football games in a variety of states. The I-want-to-be-in-the-SEC-so-I-am-a-superior-fan shtick is getting old.

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"The I-want-to-be-in-the-SEC-so-I-am-a-superior-fan schtick is getting old."

AWESOME quote!!!

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--- BuckyNut wrote:



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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Look, we know where you stand and where you are coming from. But MOST of us prefer the SEC by a wide margin. It is YOU that won't be missed.

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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

Be careful, you almost totally outed yourself as the basketball only fan you really are.

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I will continue to support UNC football regardless of which conference we are in, and I will continue to travel to watch UNC football games in a variety of states. The I-want-to-be-in-the-SEC-so-I-am-a-superior-fan shtick is getting old.

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"The I-want-to-be-in-the-SEC-so-I-am-a-superior-fan schtick is getting old."

AWESOME quote!!!

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lol Figures one troll would like another trolls post. 2009 thinks football should be a club sport, at best.

I find it funny all these Big 10 fans seem to know what the NC General Assembly will or will not allow as far as UNC / NCST conference realignment. I am a NC native, live in Raleigh, and have heard nor read NOTHING regarding anyone in the General Assembly's thoughts on this issue. I think they have bigger problems to worry about.

To all Big 10 lurkers:

When Hell freezes over!!!!

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--- WesternStormer wrote:



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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:



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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

Classic prisoner's dilemma. If the ACC can't stabilize itself soon--i.e., get Penn State or something similar--we should jump at the Big Ten before we get left with the scraps of the ACC, especially if we can move with UVA.

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Or, call the SEC and tell them we take their offer, shoot the Big-10 the bird for starting all this and trying to FORCE our hand. Oh, and kill off state at the same time.

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There's no reason to take the SEC over the Big Ten other than some people's preferences to be in a Southern Conference. UNC, as an institution, would prefer to be associated with Michigan and Wisconsin instead of Alabama and LSU, especially when it's better for basketball and nearly as good for football.

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You prefer the B1G. Others of us prefer the SEC.

Personally, being in a Southern conference, with other Southern schools, is the optimum. We as a state have more in common with the likes of FL, GA, AL, and, TX, than we do MI, OH, PA, or, IL. I don't want to go anywhere where people look at us like we're crazy for saying 'y'all.'

But, its a moot point, because the ACC isn't going anywhere.

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Yous guys need to quit!!!

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--- phatassjungle wrote:



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--- WesternStormer wrote:



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--- Carolina2009 wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:



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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

Classic prisoner's dilemma. If the ACC can't stabilize itself soon--i.e., get Penn State or something similar--we should jump at the Big Ten before we get left with the scraps of the ACC, especially if we can move with UVA.

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Or, call the SEC and tell them we take their offer, shoot the Big-10 the bird for starting all this and trying to FORCE our hand. Oh, and kill off state at the same time.

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There's no reason to take the SEC over the Big Ten other than some people's preferences to be in a Southern Conference. UNC, as an institution, would prefer to be associated with Michigan and Wisconsin instead of Alabama and LSU, especially when it's better for basketball and nearly as good for football.

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You prefer the B1G. Others of us prefer the SEC.

Personally, being in a Southern conference, with other Southern schools, is the optimum. We as a state have more in common with the likes of FL, GA, AL, and, TX, than we do MI, OH, PA, or, IL. I don't want to go anywhere where people look at us like we're crazy for saying 'y'all.'

But, its a moot point, because the ACC isn't going anywhere.

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Yous guys need to quit!!!

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Good gracious, y'all dug back a few pages for this'un, didn't you? LOL! :D

Well, I know IC will be happy to hear that theDudeofWV does, in fact, have no inside information or sources. Every tweet and article he writes aligns perfectly with the timing of information posted on the Ohio State board. The Dude takes nuggets, then contorts the info through his own lens of reality, and advertises everything as if it were to happen imminently and immediately.

I won't re-post details from the tOSU board, but I will describe the general tenor of the conversation. All of the posters on the board generally trust the source of the information to a high degree and view him as someone "in the know." His claims go as high *knowing* what the Big Ten leadership wants and plans with respect to expansion, and *knowing about* conversations between Delany/the Big Ten and expansion targets.

If things shake out as the tOSU insider believes, many UNC football fans on this board will be upset. Basketball fans might be, too, though.

Don't shoot the messenger.

ok, what is southern culture? I lived in TN for 20 years...I have several relatives in MS and LA....are they not southern? Im just askin for someone to tell me what southern culture is. Boston and columbus, both as you say are yankees....but columbus is closer to memphis than boston and its not even close

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

Here we go again. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There IS a Southern culture. And to some of us who have ancestors that have been here for generations, it is important to us. It is not up to somebody from Ohio of all places to define what Southern culture is or isn't. If you have to ask, you clearly don't get it. But there is a reason why a solid majority of posters on here prefer the SEC to the B1G if it comes to it.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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I think its casserole dishes. After my 51 years of life living in Ohio,Michigan and North Carolina I can tell you that northern woman cant hold a candle to southern woman when it comes to casserole dishes.
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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

ok, what is southern culture? I lived in TN for 20 years...I have several relatives in MS and LA....are they not southern? Im just askin for someone to tell me what southern culture is. Boston and columbus, both as you say are yankees....but columbus is closer to memphis than boston and its not even close

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

Here we go again. Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There IS a Southern culture. And to some of us who have ancestors that have been here for generations, it is important to us. It is not up to somebody from Ohio of all places to define what Southern culture is or isn't. If you have to ask, you clearly don't get it. But there is a reason why a solid majority of posters on here prefer the SEC to the B1G if it comes to it.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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Seriously... 32 pages..?

"I think its casserole dishes. After my 51 years of life living in Ohio,Michigan and North Carolina I can tell you that northern woman cant hold a candle to southern woman when it comes to casserole dishes"

__________________________________________________ ____________________

That made me laugh. My brother's wife is from Winston-Salem. One of their sons married a New Jersey girl of Italian heritage. When the couple visited the grandparents, the Jersey girl would cook up a series of different pasta type dishes: lasagna, tortellini, risotto etc.

But no matter what it was, the grandmother referred to it as "casserole".

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--- ChancellorHouse wrote:

There are a lot of folks in the midwest who think of Ohio as "back east". Cities like Cleveland are probably as much NE as midwest (I worked for WKYC-TV)

Please consider places like Kansas, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota when thinking midwest.

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

I have too and i have family in ms and la.....its not different....the east and ne is different....but thats not the midwest....... again im not sure what people mean in terms of general mindset....how so?

A couple of other things....noone runs the b10......ask anyone....noone does....all schools are equal....and alot of the rwason si...is its not just about athletics....which is why the administration of any school would pick the b10 over every conference except the ivy....which is an athletic conference as well...but its obviously much more than that....and so is the b10.

As for not fitting in....i dont buy that...unc, ga tech, and uva are much more like the b10 than the sec....they realize football is second to academics. Texas is the same way...the academics would join in seconds.....but the athletics dept wont for various reason....even notre dame would have joined if the academics had there way...but give up on notre dame joining...its not gonna happen unless they absolutely have to.


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--- rock06 wrote:



I've lived in both the south & Midwest as well & there's a definite difference

But it's a general mindset more than one specific, tangible thing


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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

What does southern mean? You say yall....act like the civil war isnt over? Or you like fried foods?

I disagree... the south and midwest are very conservative culturally....the north is a bit more cosmopolitan.....im a buckeye that moved to tn and didnt see much difference....you had conservatives and liberals in both places....but a higher percentage of conservatives in tn

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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

No, I actually don't believe that Duke will go to the SEC with UNC or anybody else.

I honestly don't know what UNC's administration will do here. I really don't. But I think that UNC would be much more likely to go to the SEC in tandem with UVA than with any other school.

It is anecdotal to be sure, but in perusing UNC's boards and even UVA's boards, it does not appear that the fanbases of either school are excited about the B1G. Most seem to have expressed a preference for the SEC if the choice is between the two. Does that mean anything? I don't know.

Both schools are probably less Southern than they used to be. So what? They are both still more Southern than any school in the B1G.


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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I honestly think that UNC, Duke, and UVa want to stick together (tradition, geography, academics, non-revenue sports). Right now, it sounds like only the ACC and the Big Ten are offering that.



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

If any ACC schools are going to the B1G, I can see GT and Duke going there.

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You hope that because you don't think Duke would go with UNC to the SEC, meaning UNC is less likely to go. But why wouldn't UVa go to the Big Ten? UVa more and more associates with DC. A move to the SEC would be a move away, while a move to the Big Ten is a move toward it.

I don't think UVa--or UNC for that matter--are as (deep) Southern as many people on this board would like to believe.

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Indeed, there is a subregional difference between the more rural Great Plains states and the densely populated, heavily industrialized cities on the Eastern end of the "Midwest."

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--- expatriateheel wrote:

Those who don't understand our desire to remain in a southern conference don't know how deep this feeling runs. As many here can attest, I am probably one of the two or three most liberal posters on this site. I would probably fit in the communist party in Moscow in 1921. However, I could not be more adamant in my opposition to going to the rustbelt conference.

I am the child of a professor educated at dook and Carolina (who taught at both) and I am very familiar with academics. I lived in Michigan for two years and to say that we would like association with rustbelt types as much as those from UGA, FLA, Vandy, Baja Carolina and ALA (likely eastern conference schools except ALA)is beyond asinine.

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Thanks, expatriate. As a fellow academic - though not particularly liberal - I agree that we would share more in common with GA, FL, and Vandy types than their northern neighbors, although I have found Vandy to be dook, Jr.

BTW, wouldn't it be appropriate for NCeSt to be in a "stable" conference?

"Y'all bring your shovels!"

Morning Heel fans. New to the board here. I am a primarily Husker fan, and spent a lot of time in NC in JR High and High school and eventually married a Tarheel native, so I follow and pull for UNC too. As a B1G member, I myself would love to see UNC, and whoever else, come to the B1G. We all know a lot of it is about money, The B1G is getting to redo their TV contract, and with MD and Rutgers included, each school is going to be getting massive amounts of money. UNC would also expand the TV and recruiting footprint in the B1G. UNC is a good school academically, so that is no problem. I know a lot of people may or may not miss the Duke-UNC games, but couldn't they schedule them every year ooc anyway? And I would love to see a Husker-UNC game, it would be crazy in my house. Any way, hope ya'll get back on top of the ACC again soon, I think you got a good hire in Fedora.

Very few (if anyone) has mentioned the impact of Notre Dame on the ACC media deal. What we know is that there will be SOME kind of renegotiation with ESPN due to the exchange of Maryland for Louisville and for the addition of Notre Dame's non football sports and some # of ACC games per season (rumored to be in talks to increase to six from five). That should occur in the next year or so and has likely already started to occur. We know the value that the addition of Pitt and Syracuse had on the media deal and given the relative values of Pitt, Syracuse, and Notre Dame as a partial should have roughly to the deal and most are guessing is that it will bring the ACC very close (if not above) the media deals that the Pac 12 and Big 12 have. Perhaps a little less, but as the ND AD mentioned, we should all be pretty close. Furthermore, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the entire deal will be re-visited. If the deal is renegotiated to allow for some kind of 3rd tier rights association with a network like Raycom (or even a close association with ESPN) to form an ACCN, then there is no single school in America who would provide more for that kind of national network than Notre Dame, particularly if there are requirement that X number of football games and/or basketball games be shown to ensure that content is decent. Everyone knows this is a huge variable and it is a BIG reason why the B1G wanted and continue to wants Notre Dame so bad. Folks in CA will pay to have the BTN just so they can see ND lacrosse and baseball.

That being said, I would be very wary of anyone saying that the BTN model will continue to be as profitable and that Maryland and New Jersey cable networks will just roll over and force their subscribers to have the BTN as standard (which is really what has to happen for them to be profitable). NJ isn't Nebraska and by most accounts, the folks living in NJ and Maryland do not view Rutgers and U-Maryland athletics in the same light. Furthermore, with so many folks having so many options for their broadcasts, it is not a safe assumption that this model will work even in the core B1G states in 10 years, much less states like NJ and Maryland where the Scarlet Knights and Terps are 5th or 6th in the packing order (if that). I am certainly not the first to bring this up, but anyone saying each B1G school will earn $40MM per year from the BTN in 10 years obviously is not telling the whole story or describing all possibilities. And anyone saying that the ACC will be earning just $17MM per season per school in ten years is just flat out being dishonest--the current deal will exceed that by then.

From the ACC's viewpoint, I think this renegotiation with ESPN is really crucial to its future (understatement of the year). However, ACC schools have had significantly lower operating budgets relative to Ohio State and Michigan for years and it hasn't prevented them from being successful--in fact, the ACC is arguably MORE successful from an all-sports standpoint. If keeping up with those kinds of operating budgets were the only driver for these kinds of moves, UNC and UVa would have moved years ago. The only reason that Maryland made the move was that they HAD to to survive, and honestly if they don't make significant changes within their athletic department, this extra money will just be exhausted as quickly as it was given (assuming the BTN will be able to work something out with Comcast). As Puff Daddy (and Mace?) said, mo' money, mo' problems. The ACC schools don't have to keep up with the B1G schools, but they can't get left too far behind. The media deal is not the only source of revenue stream. In ten years, the UNC budget will probably be in the $100MM range, so if we're talking $4-5MM being left on the table, it's not really that big of a deal, especially when you consider Ohio State's is over $60MM more than UNC's today. Of course, at some point, if that gap keeps widening, it will be a significant difference.

I think from UNC's perspective, the ACC really is the first, second and third option. It's a good academic and athletic conference and most ACC presidents are happy.

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--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:

Very few (if anyone) has mentioned the impact of Notre Dame on the ACC media deal. What we know is that there will be SOME kind of renegotiation with ESPN due to the exchange of Maryland for Louisville and for the addition of Notre Dame's non football sports and some # of ACC games per season (rumored to be in talks to increase to six from five). That should occur in the next year or so and has likely already started to occur. We know the value that the addition of Pitt and Syracuse had on the media deal and given the relative values of Pitt, Syracuse, and Notre Dame as a partial should have roughly to the deal and most are guessing is that it will bring the ACC very close (if not above) the media deals that the Pac 12 and Big 12 have. Perhaps a little less, but as the ND AD mentioned, we should all be pretty close. Furthermore, it isn't out of the realm of possibility that the entire deal will be re-visited. If the deal is renegotiated to allow for some kind of 3rd tier rights association with a network like Raycom (or even a close association with ESPN) to form an ACCN, then there is no single school in America who would provide more for that kind of national network than Notre Dame, particularly if there are requirement that X number of football games and/or basketball games be shown to ensure that content is decent. Everyone knows this is a huge variable and it is a BIG reason why the B1G wanted and continue to wants Notre Dame so bad. Folks in CA will pay to have the BTN just so they can see ND lacrosse and baseball.

That being said, I would be very wary of anyone saying that the BTN model will continue to be as profitable and that Maryland and New Jersey cable networks will just roll over and force their subscribers to have the BTN as standard (which is really what has to happen for them to be profitable). NJ isn't Nebraska and by most accounts, the folks living in NJ and Maryland do not view Rutgers and U-Maryland athletics in the same light. Furthermore, with so many folks having so many options for their broadcasts, it is not a safe assumption that this model will work even in the core B1G states in 10 years, much less states like NJ and Maryland where the Scarlet Knights and Terps are 5th or 6th in the packing order (if that). I am certainly not the first to bring this up, but anyone saying each B1G school will earn $40MM per year from the BTN in 10 years obviously is not telling the whole story or describing all possibilities. And anyone saying that the ACC will be earning just $17MM per season per school in ten years is just flat out being dishonest--the current deal will exceed that by then.

From the ACC's viewpoint, I think this renegotiation with ESPN is really crucial to its future (understatement of the year). However, ACC schools have had significantly lower operating budgets relative to Ohio State and Michigan for years and it hasn't prevented them from being successful--in fact, the ACC is arguably MORE successful from an all-sports standpoint. If keeping up with those kinds of operating budgets were the only driver for these kinds of moves, UNC and UVa would have moved years ago. The only reason that Maryland made the move was that they HAD to to survive, and honestly if they don't make significant changes within their athletic department, this extra money will just be exhausted as quickly as it was given (assuming the BTN will be able to work something out with Comcast). As Puff Daddy (and Mace?) said, mo' money, mo' problems. The ACC schools don't have to keep up with the B1G schools, but they can't get left too far behind. The media deal is not the only source of revenue stream. In ten years, the UNC budget will probably be in the $100MM range, so if we're talking $4-5MM being left on the table, it's not really that big of a deal, especially when you consider Ohio State's is over $60MM more than UNC's today. Of course, at some point, if that gap keeps widening, it will be a significant difference.

I think from UNC's perspective, the ACC really is the first, second and third option. It's a good academic and athletic conference and most ACC presidents are happy.

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I don't have a link for this, but I remember reading that ESPN has declined to renegotiate to television deal after the Maryland-Louisville swap.

The current deal already takes Notre Dame into account. Don't expect much more revenue per team, if any, from one more Notre Dame football game being added.

And by the way, adding one more Notre Dame game per year is essentially adding 0.5 Notre Dame games for the ACC. Under the current deal, Notre Dame will play at 3 ACC teams in odd years and at 2 ACC teams in even years. If they can work out the new deal, it would be at 3 every year.

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--- Carolina2009 wrote:

I don't have a link for this, but I remember reading that ESPN has declined to renegotiate to television deal after the Maryland-Louisville swap.

The current deal already takes Notre Dame into account. Don't expect much more revenue per team, if any, from one more Notre Dame football game being added.

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I know you mention you don't have a link for the Maryland/Louisville swap. That's fine, I wouldn't think that swap would amount to much. However, I'd like it even more if you had a link that said that Notre Dame addition has already been taken into account. I have heard several folks on talk radio and ESPN mentioning this as something the ACC needed to ensure stability. I even heard Debbie Yow mention it on 99.9 about three weeks ago. I looked about that time to see if she was full of it and couldn't find anything to refute her claim and no one on the show questioned it. If the announcement has happened since then, I would expect it would be easy to find, but I can't (at least not for the last five minutes I couldn't).

Just a quick timeline for reference:

September 2011 Announcement that Pitt and Syracuse to join ACC
May 2012 ESPN/ACC release new media deal that will pay out ~$17.1MM ($3.6B over 15 years)
September 2012 Notre Dame (partial) to the ACC
November 22? Maryland to the Big Ten
November 29 Louisville to the ACC

Regarding the re-negotiation of the ESPN deal and from what I can tell, the ACC media deal is still at that $17.1MM per school clip. I've googled everything I can think of and it's still the same in every link I can find. Either Notre Dame added nothing, or the renegotiation has not occured. This is a critical point because there are plenty of folks who are making argument dealing with their 'set of facts' and they may not be the same facts that others are dealing with. Here is a snip from a Chicago Tribune article from mid October. This is the most recent (credible) discussion I see of it and includes a direct quote from Swofford:

"We will renegotiate our television contract with ESPN and we've already begun those discussions," Swofford said. "Obviously beforehand we had already done some analysis as far as what impact that Notre Dame's involvement with our league would have on that agreement and we exepct that to be a positive one."

articles.chicagotribune.com/20...ctor-notre-dame

I have seen plenty of guesses that Notre Dame will increase the media deal to about $19-20MM but I haven't seen anything finalized. Would it be worth it to ESPN to back off of that increased amount to allow for the ACC to retain 3rd tier rights? Would ACC schools even want that given what ESPN provides in terms of national coverage?

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--- fishnfrank wrote:

Morning Heel fans. New to the board here. I am a primarily Husker fan, and spent a lot of time in NC in JR High and High school and eventually married a Tarheel native, so I follow and pull for UNC too. As a B1G member, I myself would love to see UNC, and whoever else, come to the B1G. We all know a lot of it is about money, The B1G is getting to redo their TV contract, and with MD and Rutgers included, each school is going to be getting massive amounts of money. UNC would also expand the TV and recruiting footprint in the B1G. UNC is a good school academically, so that is no problem. I know a lot of people may or may not miss the Duke-UNC games, but couldn't they schedule them every year ooc anyway? And I would love to see a Husker-UNC game, it would be crazy in my house. Any way, hope ya'll get back on top of the ACC again soon, I think you got a good hire in Fedora.

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Thanks for the class first post, Husker fan. Welcome to IC, and, come by anytime. We appreciate the props. Never met more loyal fans than Nebraska's. I wish our fanbase as a whole had the same passion for the game y'all do.

The majority on here are pro-SEC, if it comes down to that. That said, I am optimistic that the ACC will survive and thrive.

From my POV on UNC joining the SEC, its about geography, and, the chance to renew some dormant rivalries with Georgia, Tennessee, etc. Others have their reasons. And, there is also a group here who favor the Big 10, mainly for the academic prestige. Which is a big deal in and of itself.

Its going to be an interesting spring and summer again in 2013.

I agree. This spring and summer there are going to be a lot of crazy rumors floating around. I also recently learned that the B1G Commissioner, Jim Delaney, is a UNC grad, and getting UNC to the B1G would be a big thing for him. Theres always a hidden reason for stuff.

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--- WesternStormer wrote:



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--- fishnfrank wrote:

Morning Heel fans. New to the board here. I am a primarily Husker fan, and spent a lot of time in NC in JR High and High school and eventually married a Tarheel native, so I follow and pull for UNC too. As a B1G member, I myself would love to see UNC, and whoever else, come to the B1G. We all know a lot of it is about money, The B1G is getting to redo their TV contract, and with MD and Rutgers included, each school is going to be getting massive amounts of money. UNC would also expand the TV and recruiting footprint in the B1G. UNC is a good school academically, so that is no problem. I know a lot of people may or may not miss the Duke-UNC games, but couldn't they schedule them every year ooc anyway? And I would love to see a Husker-UNC game, it would be crazy in my house. Any way, hope ya'll get back on top of the ACC again soon, I think you got a good hire in Fedora.

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Thanks for the class first post, Husker fan. Welcome to IC, and, come by anytime. We appreciate the props. Never met more loyal fans than Nebraska's. I wish our fanbase as a whole had the same passion for the game y'all do.

The majority on here are pro-SEC, if it comes down to that. That said, I am optimistic that the ACC will survive and thrive.

From my POV on UNC joining the SEC, its about geography, and, the chance to renew some dormant rivalries with Georgia, Tennessee, etc. Others have their reasons. And, there is also a group here who favor the Big 10, mainly for the academic prestige. Which is a big deal in and of itself.

Its going to be an interesting spring and summer again in 2013.

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--- fishnfrank wrote:


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--- WesternStormer wrote:


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--- fishnfrank wrote:

Morning Heel fans. New to the board here. I am a primarily Husker fan, and spent a lot of time in NC in JR High and High school and eventually married a Tarheel native, so I follow and pull for UNC too. As a B1G member, I myself would love to see UNC, and whoever else, come to the B1G. We all know a lot of it is about money, The B1G is getting to redo their TV contract, and with MD and Rutgers included, each school is going to be getting massive amounts of money. UNC would also expand the TV and recruiting footprint in the B1G. UNC is a good school academically, so that is no problem. I know a lot of people may or may not miss the Duke-UNC games, but couldn't they schedule them every year ooc anyway? And I would love to see a Husker-UNC game, it would be crazy in my house. Any way, hope ya'll get back on top of the ACC again soon, I think you got a good hire in Fedora.

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Thanks for the class first post, Husker fan. Welcome to IC, and, come by anytime. We appreciate the props. Never met more loyal fans than Nebraska's. I wish our fanbase as a whole had the same passion for the game y'all do.

The majority on here are pro-SEC, if it comes down to that. That said, I am optimistic that the ACC will survive and thrive.

From my POV on UNC joining the SEC, its about geography, and, the chance to renew some dormant rivalries with Georgia, Tennessee, etc. Others have their reasons. And, there is also a group here who favor the Big 10, mainly for the academic prestige. Which is a big deal in and of itself.

Its going to be an interesting spring and summer again in 2013.

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I agree. This spring and summer there are going to be a lot of crazy rumors floating around. I also recently learned that the B1G Commissioner, Jim Delaney, is a UNC grad, and getting UNC to the B1G would be a big thing for him.

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Jim Delaney also played basketball at Carolina for legendary HC Dean Smith. He was on teams who went to two Final Fours, and, served as a tri-captain during the '69-'70 season.

You are 100 percent correct that he'd like to have UNC in the Big 10.

Had a conversation today with a former UVA hoops season ticket holder. Her take: wherever we go, we go together.

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--- therabidrev wrote:

Had a conversation today with a former UVA hoops season ticket holder. Her take: wherever we go, we go together.

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That would mean UVa is fluttering back and forth like a banner in a hurricane. lol

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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

That would mean UVa is fluttering back and forth like a banner in a hurricane. lol

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Hey ShadowSpawne, does that quote mean that UNC is going back and forth on their decision?

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--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:

I know you mention you don't have a link for the Maryland/Louisville swap. That's fine, I wouldn't think that swap would amount to much. However, I'd like it even more if you had a link that said that Notre Dame addition has already been taken into account. I have heard several folks on talk radio and ESPN mentioning this as something the ACC needed to ensure stability. I even heard Debbie Yow mention it on 99.9 about three weeks ago. I looked about that time to see if she was full of it and couldn't find anything to refute her claim and no one on the show questioned it. If the announcement has happened since then, I would expect it would be easy to find, but I can't (at least not for the last five minutes I couldn't).

Just a quick timeline for reference:

September 2011 Announcement that Pitt and Syracuse to join ACC
May 2012 ESPN/ACC release new media deal that will pay out ~$17.1MM ($3.6B over 15 years)
September 2012 Notre Dame (partial) to the ACC
November 22? Maryland to the Big Ten
November 29 Louisville to the ACC

Regarding the re-negotiation of the ESPN deal and from what I can tell, the ACC media deal is still at that $17.1MM per school clip. I've googled everything I can think of and it's still the same in every link I can find. Either Notre Dame added nothing, or the renegotiation has not occured. This is a critical point because there are plenty of folks who are making argument dealing with their 'set of facts' and they may not be the same facts that others are dealing with. Here is a snip from a Chicago Tribune article from mid October. This is the most recent (credible) discussion I see of it and includes a direct quote from Swofford:

"We will renegotiate our television contract with ESPN and we've already begun those discussions," Swofford said. "Obviously beforehand we had already done some analysis as far as what impact that Notre Dame's involvement with our league would have on that agreement and we exepct that to be a positive one."

articles.chicagotribune.com/20...ctor-notre-dame

I have seen plenty of guesses that Notre Dame will increase the media deal to about $19-20MM but I haven't seen anything finalized. Would it be worth it to ESPN to back off of that increased amount to allow for the ACC to retain 3rd tier rights? Would ACC schools even want that given what ESPN provides in terms of national coverage?

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I know the ACC is doing everything it can to raise the tv revenue, but it's going to be an uphill battle:

www.cbssports.com/collegefootb...work-of-its-own

This article states that ESPN is "lukewarm" on the idea. The ACC will need their cooperation to get this thing off the ground.

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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

That would mean UVa is fluttering back and forth like a banner in a hurricane. lol

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Hey ShadowSpawne, does that quote mean that UNC is going back and forth on their decision?

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Not at all.

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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:



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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:



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--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

That would mean UVa is fluttering back and forth like a banner in a hurricane. lol

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Hey ShadowSpawne, does that quote mean that UNC is going back and forth on their decision?

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Not at all.

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You're getting my hopes up. :)