---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

The B1G is a money machine in research and athletics. All B1G schools offer a very broad scope of athletic teams, much like UNC.

SEC is up right now in football, it won't last forever. The decline started last year with Urban leaving and Saban will be next. Throw in Auburn on probation and Arky losing their coach.... Fans are very short sighted, that's why they are not CEO's.

---------------------------------------------

Agree totally on the Big 10's ability to land research grant money. And, that the scope of sports offered is very compatible with what Carolina offers.

Respectfully disagree totally on SEC football being in decline. Thats laughable.

Bama is back in the BCSCG again. UGA was thisclose to beating Bama, and, playing for the MNC themselves. LSU and Florida were each one play away from taking their spots in the SECCG.

Nick Saban is likely finishing his career at Bama. I'd wager Les Miles the same at LSU. Will Muschamp is looking like the real deal at UF. Ditto Kevin Sumlin at Texas A&M. Mark Richt is a proven winner at UGA. Wiscy's HC is now at Arkansas.

What decline are you talking about? If anything they're set up to continue being dominant long term. What other program in the B10...OSU aside...is a real threat to win a national title anytime soon? What other HC is MNC calibre, aside from Coach Meyer?

IMHO, at the moment, the answer to both is none. Advantage SEC. And, it isn't close.

Don't get me wrong. I think there are good HCs in the B10. UM, MSU, and NU all have good coaches. Just not MNC title-type good.

C&C, I think we sometimes underestimate the traveling power of some of our regional SEC schools. I was at the Bama-Duke game in Durham a couple of years ago and Bama easily brought 15-20,000 fans. And that was to see Duke! They literally took up more than half of Wallace Wade.

Birmingham, the largest city in Alabama, is about an 8 hour or so drive from the Triangle. Not a bad trip at all. UT (5 hrs), USCe (3.5 hrs), and UGA (5 hrs) are even closer. Those schools will bring a ton of fans and a ton of excitement to Kenan. I imagine the Gator fans might bring a good number too.

Other than the Mississippi schools, Arkansas, Mizzou, and Texas A&M, UNC shares fairly good geographic proximity to the rest of the SEC.

If anything, we have seen in the past how large fanbases invading Kenan has galvanized our own fans to show up (see VT and NCSU). We'd have no choice but to step up our own game or repeatedly be outnumbered in our own stadium. We do have some pride you know!

I'm not sure why we are still having this argument though. If the ACC remains intact, it is a moot point. But if by chance the ACC does fall apart, the SEC is UNC's best fit from an athletics perspective BY FAR. There is better proximity to natural rivals and we share a long athletics history with many of the SEC schools from the old Southern Conference days.

The B1G just feels like an awful fit from an athletics standpoint.

---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- bamadeacon wrote:

I have read a lot on this thread about academics, culture, economics, etc. Most of what has been said obviously comes from people who have not kept up with the enormous displacement of manufacturing (jobs!) from the midwest to the south, and particularly the deep south. It's the same kind of thing if one looks at the growth and nature of the deep south state universities. Check the sizes and complexities of our neighboring state U's. You will be very surprised at how they stack up.

Now, putting all that pedantry aside, let me pose this question.
If Alabama were to play UNC in Chapel Hill, what would be the interest level throughout the state of North Carolina? Extend that. What would be the interest level if UNC were to play Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee and other SEC schools on a regular basis? I would think all those empty seats in Kenan would be filled rather quickly. Wake, Duke, Miami, Syracuse, etc will never bring out the interest that schools in either the BIG or SEC would. It pains me to write this kind of thing because I am a Wake grad, and I am certain that in all this restructuring schools such as Wake are going to be left out in the cold. They have neither the size nor support base to compete with The University of (insert name of state).

In all this rhetoric, I think three things are rapidly becoming evident. First, the restructuring will continue until there are four sixteen team conferences with a playoff system for the national championship.
Second, the ACC will not be one of those four conferences, and third, the lineup will have absolutely nothing to do with basketball.

---------------------------------------------

My guess is that Bama, Georgia, and Florida would bring about the same level of interest to BKS as FSU, VT, or Clemson do. There of course would be some novelty to having that kind of opponent in the house, but my guess is it would be just like Texas, Notre Dame, or the first few times Miami was here when they first joined the ACC. And Syracuse and BC would bring about the same level of interest as Vandy, Kentucky or Mississippi State. There are certainly MORE quality football programs in the SEC, but there also is the matter of proximity. Would LSU or Auburn really bring 15K to Kenan? Probably not, and when Wake comes to play UNC in Chapel Hill, I kind of like that feel that is in the air. There is a lot of tradition with our games with Wake, UVa, Clemson, even GT. I like those games for what they are...

As for playing tOSU and having half the stadium filled with scarlet, that would assume that UNC fans would not only dump their tickets (they wouldn't) but that 32K tOSU fans would come three states away (they wouldn't). As much as we bemoan the empty seats, BKS has NEVER been filled anywhere close to halfway with opposing fans. The highest percent i can ever recall is about 20-25% red in 2003 or so. Sometimes our own fans lose sight of the number of seats that are filled and what a half red stadium actually looks like. and by the way, a 90% filled BKS is still the highest filled college stadium in the 10th largest state in the nation.

---------------------------------------------

Comparing Alabama coming to Wallace Wade and the relative ticket availability to a hypothetical game with UNC is not apples to apples. From what I understand, Alabama fans bought plenty of dook season tickets just for that one game. Our fans (even in the downest of times) would not allow an opponent (particularly one with the prestige of Alabama) to come in to BKS in those kinds of numbers.

I am not sure what we are talking about but don't mistake me for someone who thinks being in the SEC would hurt our attendance. It would help. But keep in mind the following truths:

1. Not everyone in the SEC is an Alabama or a Georgia--not even close. We just hosted SCar five years ago when we were 4-8 and SCar might have brought 5K.
2. Not every ACC school travels like Boston College--not even close.
3. Our fanbase supports this program a lot more than our own fans admit at times.
4. Some of our fanbase actually likes the history we have with some of the smaller schools in the league. Maybe it is supply and demand, but I enjoy the games against Wake and I am looking forward to going up to BC the next time we play them up there.

We will fill Kenan in any league if we win
----------------------------------------------

Post of the year! Says it all.

Just win baby!

Go Heels!

---------------------------------------------
--- Nittany3G wrote:

---------------------------------------------
--- ShadowSpawne wrote:

The biggest differences that I have observed between the big-10 and the SEC lies in their fans. SEC fans have, almost universally, friendly, polite, and inviting. On the other hand, the Big-10 fans have been, by and large, arrogant, insecure, combative, and condescending.

---------------------------------------------

Penn Stater living in Florida here. I've been to multiple B10 stadiums, plus UF, Bama, FSU, and a few B12 stadiums too. Every school has a few crazies who embarrass their school. However, in general I've had great experiences at all the venues. I honestly haven't noticed any differences in fans that adhere to conference lines (and if you pressed me, I would not agree with your generalization). Individual school fanbases may vary somewhat, but not based upon conference. Personally, I think that Iowa and Nebraska have the friendliest fan bases. Alabama fans have always had a special connection with Penn Staters (they were also probably the kindest to me during the tough days this last year). Lots of respect for them. Just my observations.

Merry Christmas to all.

BTW - most Penn Staters would absolutely love to have UNC in the conference. The majority of PSU alumni live in the NYC to Florida corridor, and would welcome Mid-Atlantic expansion. Also, UNC's focus on non-revenue sports is one that we understand. From reading this board, I know that this sentiment (toward the B10) is not exactly mutual, and I can respect that.

---------------------------------------------

I think more of Penn State - recent shenanigans aside - than I do the Big 10 as a whole.

---------------------------------------------
--- Nittany3G wrote:
BTW - most Penn Staters would absolutely love to have UNC in the conference. The majority of PSU alumni live in the NYC to Florida corridor, and would welcome Mid-Atlantic expansion. Also, UNC's focus on non-revenue sports is one that we understand. From reading this board, I know that this sentiment (toward the B10) is not exactly mutual, and I can respect that.

---------------------------------------------

Nit fan, the majority of UNC fans would absolutely love to have PSU in the ACC.

Just so you know. :)

---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- Nittany3G wrote:
BTW - most Penn Staters would absolutely love to have UNC in the conference. The majority of PSU alumni live in the NYC to Florida corridor, and would welcome Mid-Atlantic expansion. Also, UNC's focus on non-revenue sports is one that we understand. From reading this board, I know that this sentiment (toward the B10) is not exactly mutual, and I can respect that.

---------------------------------------------

Nit fan, the majority of UNC fans would absolutely love to have PSU in the ACC.

Just so you know. :)

---------------------------------------------
No doubt about that, why don't ya'll make a break and come on down. Notre Dame would join full time and we could all watch the Big 12 crumble.

---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- bamadeacon wrote:

I have read a lot on this thread about academics, culture, economics, etc. Most of what has been said obviously comes from people who have not kept up with the enormous displacement of manufacturing (jobs!) from the midwest to the south, and particularly the deep south. It's the same kind of thing if one looks at the growth and nature of the deep south state universities. Check the sizes and complexities of our neighboring state U's. You will be very surprised at how they stack up.

Now, putting all that pedantry aside, let me pose this question.
If Alabama were to play UNC in Chapel Hill, what would be the interest level throughout the state of North Carolina? Extend that. What would be the interest level if UNC were to play Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Tennessee and other SEC schools on a regular basis? I would think all those empty seats in Kenan would be filled rather quickly. Wake, Duke, Miami, Syracuse, etc will never bring out the interest that schools in either the BIG or SEC would. It pains me to write this kind of thing because I am a Wake grad, and I am certain that in all this restructuring schools such as Wake are going to be left out in the cold. They have neither the size nor support base to compete with The University of (insert name of state).

In all this rhetoric, I think three things are rapidly becoming evident. First, the restructuring will continue until there are four sixteen team conferences with a playoff system for the national championship.
Second, the ACC will not be one of those four conferences, and third, the lineup will have absolutely nothing to do with basketball.

---------------------------------------------

My guess is that Bama, Georgia, and Florida would bring about the same level of interest to BKS as FSU, VT, or Clemson do. There of course would be some novelty to having that kind of opponent in the house, but my guess is it would be just like Texas, Notre Dame, or the first few times Miami was here when they first joined the ACC. And Syracuse and BC would bring about the same level of interest as Vandy, Kentucky or Mississippi State. There are certainly MORE quality football programs in the SEC, but there also is the matter of proximity. Would LSU or Auburn really bring 15K to Kenan? Probably not, and when Wake comes to play UNC in Chapel Hill, I kind of like that feel that is in the air. There is a lot of tradition with our games with Wake, UVa, Clemson, even GT. I like those games for what they are...

As for playing tOSU and having half the stadium filled with scarlet, that would assume that UNC fans would not only dump their tickets (they wouldn't) but that 32K tOSU fans would come three states away (they wouldn't). As much as we bemoan the empty seats, BKS has NEVER been filled anywhere close to halfway with opposing fans. The highest percent i can ever recall is about 20-25% red in 2003 or so. Sometimes our own fans lose sight of the number of seats that are filled and what a half red stadium actually looks like. and by the way, a 90% filled BKS is still the highest filled college stadium in the 10th largest state in the nation.

---------------------------------------------
You would not need 32k tOSU fans coming 3 states away. Theres probably 3 times that many already living here.

---------------------------------------------
--- deandisciple wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WesternStormer wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- Nittany3G wrote:
BTW - most Penn Staters would absolutely love to have UNC in the conference. The majority of PSU alumni live in the NYC to Florida corridor, and would welcome Mid-Atlantic expansion. Also, UNC's focus on non-revenue sports is one that we understand. From reading this board, I know that this sentiment (toward the B10) is not exactly mutual, and I can respect that.

---------------------------------------------

Nit fan, the majority of UNC fans would absolutely love to have PSU in the ACC.

Just so you know. :)

---------------------------------------------
No doubt about that, why don't ya'll make a break and come on down. Notre Dame would join full time and we could all watch the Big 12 crumble.

---------------------------------------------
You have no idea how often the PSU and ND to the ACC wish gets brought up in PSU circles. A very high percentage of the alumni would be in favor of it - if the revenue was roughly the same (and there's the catch). PSU is not Midwest, and alumni overwhelming live on the east coast.

I agree with 3G. We have more alumni in Florida I think than just about every big ten state combined (minus PA). The recent big ten moves of Rutgers and Maryland were as much an attempt at locking PSU into the big ten (now and in the future trying to destabilize the ACC and take away our only realistic other option) as they were at obtaining market share. Alvarez's comments were pretty telling a few weeks ago. I'd definitely prefer the ACC.

---------------------------------------------
--- psu00 wrote:

I agree with 3G. We have more alumni in Florida I think than just about every big ten state combined (minus PA). The recent big ten moves of Rutgers and Maryland were as much an attempt at locking PSU into the big ten (now and in the future trying to destabilize the ACC and take away our only realistic other option) as they were at obtaining market share. Alvarez's comments were pretty telling a few weeks ago. I'd definitely prefer the ACC.

---------------------------------------------

By all means feel free to start a fan-based campaign to make it happen. If PSU came home to the ACC, ND would have to take a long look at its options and probably suck it up already and join fully. I wouldn't br shocked at that point to see MD come home and bring Rutgers with them. Those 4 put us at 18 institutions spanning the east coast w inventory for every sport all year long.

There is no way to lnow what such a media contract would bring given the right leadership/negotiator. Maybe Swofford would step down to make it happen. Who knows.

Bottom line, such a power move would instantly change the power dynamics, restabilizing the ACC, weakening the B1G and leaving the B12 with no options.

---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

The B1G is a money machine in research and athletics. All B1G schools offer a very broad scope of athletic teams, much like UNC.

SEC is up right now in football, it won't last forever. The decline started last year with Urban leaving and Saban will be next. Throw in Auburn on probation and Arky losing their coach.... Fans are very short sighted, that's why they are not CEO's.

---------------------------------------------

So Florida being the #3 ranked team in the country means they are "declining"? Saban isn't going anywhere, and one of the B1G's best coaches just left to take an SEC job at Arky. I don't think you're short sighted, I think you're legally blind.

---------------------------------------------
--- Chapel Heel wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

The B1G is a money machine in research and athletics. All B1G schools offer a very broad scope of athletic teams, much like UNC.

SEC is up right now in football, it won't last forever. The decline started last year with Urban leaving and Saban will be next. Throw in Auburn on probation and Arky losing their coach.... Fans are very short sighted, that's why they are not CEO's.

---------------------------------------------

So Florida being the #3 ranked team in the country means they are "declining"? Saban isn't going anywhere, and one of the B1G's best coaches just left to take an SEC job at Arky. I don't think you're short sighted, I think you're legally blind.

---------------------------------------------

A B1G coach who's taken his team to 3 "Granddaddy of Them All" ROSE BOWLS left his championship B1G team to go to a second or third tier SEC team in a small market town in a ridiculously tough division. The handwriting is on the wall in large print.

Rumors of UNC reaching out to the B1G:

North Carolina, rumored to be an expansion to target for the SEC, has reached out to the Big Ten according to conference expansion expert Chris Lambert (Dude of WV).

Multiple sources within the Big 10 conference have confirmed that the University of North Carolina has reached out to Big 10 commissioner Jim Delany to gauge the level of interest the conference has in the Tar Heels as a potential member.

According to the same sources within the Big 10 Delany has the approval of the Big 10 Council of Presidents and Chancellors to extend invitations to Georgia Tech, UVA and possibly Florida State University in the weeks following the BCS Championship game on January 7th 2013.

Delany’s consideration of UNC is not expected to delay the invitations to Georgia Tech and UVA, but if the Tar Heels interest in the Big 10 is real Delany has told the Council of Presidents that UNC offers opportunities for the Big 10 that must be carefully considered.

What is in doubt is UVA’s response to Delany’s reported intention to extend the Cavalier’s a Big 10 invitation. Big 10 sources are unclear if UVA president Dr. Teresa A. Sullivan has the institutional control and support among UVA’s board to move the Cavaliers from the ACC to the Big 10.

If discussions between Delany and Sullivan indicate a reluctance for UVA to move the Big 10 was expected to invite Boston College in place of UVA but the recent interest on the part of UNC has Delany’s “Plan B” in doubt.

The same sources within the Big 10 who provided information concerning Maryland’s plans to leave the ACC privately wonder if UNC is urging Sullivan to remain committed to the ACC while, at the same time, actively courting the Big 10 in hopes of stealing UVA’s forthcoming invitation.

Link: www.leatherhelmetblog.com/2012...ng-big-ten.html

Just a blog of course, but interesting gossip nonetheless.

If this is true, which is a massive assumption given the amount of bunk that surfaces during this realignment drama, I'm guessing the B1G pushes to 20. The CIC has (according to a few online posters I've spoken with) a bylaw requiring all member schools to be contiguous. Going to 20 allows that to happen with some premier athletic & academic schools - if the B1G pushes to 20 with ND, FSU, UNC, Duke, GT, & UVA, the B1G is easily the most prestigious academic conference in the country, easily the most prestigious conference in the country for all sports other than football, and adding the football cache of ND/FSU to the already big football brands of UM/PSU/OSU/UNL would make the B1G easily the 2nd most prestigious football conference in the country, and in some years would likely be stronger than the SEC.

I'll take the SEC over the B1G any day of the week.

---------------------------------------------
--- blackngold05 wrote:

Rumors of UNC reaching out to the B1G:

North Carolina, rumored to be an expansion to target for the SEC, has reached out to the Big Ten according to conference expansion expert Chris Lambert (Dude of WV).

Multiple sources within the Big 10 conference have confirmed that the University of North Carolina has reached out to Big 10 commissioner Jim Delany to gauge the level of interest the conference has in the Tar Heels as a potential member.

According to the same sources within the Big 10 Delany has the approval of the Big 10 Council of Presidents and Chancellors to extend invitations to Georgia Tech, UVA and possibly Florida State University in the weeks following the BCS Championship game on January 7th 2013.

Delany’s consideration of UNC is not expected to delay the invitations to Georgia Tech and UVA, but if the Tar Heels interest in the Big 10 is real Delany has told the Council of Presidents that UNC offers opportunities for the Big 10 that must be carefully considered.

What is in doubt is UVA’s response to Delany’s reported intention to extend the Cavalier’s a Big 10 invitation. Big 10 sources are unclear if UVA president Dr. Teresa A. Sullivan has the institutional control and support among UVA’s board to move the Cavaliers from the ACC to the Big 10.

If discussions between Delany and Sullivan indicate a reluctance for UVA to move the Big 10 was expected to invite Boston College in place of UVA but the recent interest on the part of UNC has Delany’s “Plan B” in doubt.

The same sources within the Big 10 who provided information concerning Maryland’s plans to leave the ACC privately wonder if UNC is urging Sullivan to remain committed to the ACC while, at the same time, actively courting the Big 10 in hopes of stealing UVA’s forthcoming invitation.

Link: www.leatherhelmetblog.com/2012...ng-big-ten.html

Just a blog of course, but interesting gossip nonetheless.

If this is true, which is a massive assumption given the amount of bunk that surfaces during this realignment drama, I'm guessing the B1G pushes to 20. The CIC has (according to a few online posters I've spoken with) a bylaw requiring all member schools to be contiguous. Going to 20 allows that to happen with some premier athletic & academic schools - if the B1G pushes to 20 with ND, FSU, UNC, Duke, GT, & UVA, the B1G is easily the most prestigious academic conference in the country, easily the most prestigious conference in the country for all sports other than football, and adding the football cache of ND/FSU to the already big football brands of UM/PSU/OSU/UNL would make the B1G easily the 2nd most prestigious football conference in the country, and in some years would likely be stronger than the SEC.

---------------------------------------------

BS

^ Bovine Scat?

Penn State isn't coming to save the ACC and the B1G is not inviting UNC. UNC does not belong in the B1G. Recent events have proven them to be a great fit for the SEC.

---------------------------------------------
--- blackngold05 wrote:

Rumors of UNC reaching out to the B1G:

North Carolina, rumored to be an expansion to target for the SEC, has reached out to the Big Ten according to conference expansion expert Chris Lambert (Dude of WV).

Multiple sources within the Big 10 conference have confirmed that the University of North Carolina has reached out to Big 10 commissioner Jim Delany to gauge the level of interest the conference has in the Tar Heels as a potential member.

According to the same sources within the Big 10 Delany has the approval of the Big 10 Council of Presidents and Chancellors to extend invitations to Georgia Tech, UVA and possibly Florida State University in the weeks following the BCS Championship game on January 7th 2013.

Delany’s consideration of UNC is not expected to delay the invitations to Georgia Tech and UVA, but if the Tar Heels interest in the Big 10 is real Delany has told the Council of Presidents that UNC offers opportunities for the Big 10 that must be carefully considered.

What is in doubt is UVA’s response to Delany’s reported intention to extend the Cavalier’s a Big 10 invitation. Big 10 sources are unclear if UVA president Dr. Teresa A. Sullivan has the institutional control and support among UVA’s board to move the Cavaliers from the ACC to the Big 10.

If discussions between Delany and Sullivan indicate a reluctance for UVA to move the Big 10 was expected to invite Boston College in place of UVA but the recent interest on the part of UNC has Delany’s “Plan B” in doubt.

The same sources within the Big 10 who provided information concerning Maryland’s plans to leave the ACC privately wonder if UNC is urging Sullivan to remain committed to the ACC while, at the same time, actively courting the Big 10 in hopes of stealing UVA’s forthcoming invitation.

Link: www.leatherhelmetblog.com/2012...ng-big-ten.html

Just a blog of course, but interesting gossip nonetheless.

If this is true, which is a massive assumption given the amount of bunk that surfaces during this realignment drama, I'm guessing the B1G pushes to 20. The CIC has (according to a few online posters I've spoken with) a bylaw requiring all member schools to be contiguous. Going to 20 allows that to happen with some premier athletic & academic schools - if the B1G pushes to 20 with ND, FSU, UNC, Duke, GT, & UVA, the B1G is easily the most prestigious academic conference in the country, easily the most prestigious conference in the country for all sports other than football, and adding the football cache of ND/FSU to the already big football brands of UM/PSU/OSU/UNL would make the B1G easily the 2nd most prestigious football conference in the country, and in some years would likely be stronger than the SEC.

---------------------------------------------

Quoting ANYTHING from The Dud(e), MHver, or, any butthurt WVA fan is useless. They know less about expansion/realignment than you or I. He is a butthurt WVA fan who is mad the ACC passed over his school for their arch rival, Pitt.

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--- 18SBC wrote:

Penn State isn't coming to save the ACC and the B1G is not inviting UNC. UNC does not belong in the B1G. Recent events have proven them to be a great fit for the SEC.

---------------------------------------------

Another arrogant, butt hurt, little can't counter. We told your beloved big-10 no, not now, not ever. Don't even try to say we aren't being invited, that bitter spurned loved **** isn't going to fly.

P.S. Your conference would cut its left genital sphere off to have us. What kills you is that you know that.

---------------------------------------------
--- 18SBC wrote:

UNC does not belong in the B1G. Recent events have proven them to be a great fit for the SEC.

---------------------------------------------

Care to elaborate?

I think there is a distinct possibility that UNC would prefer the BIG10 over the SEC, especially if UVA and GT are going in that direction. Every university is run by academic-mided people who believe that academic considerations outweigh all other considerations, even in choosing an athletic conference.

I honestly think UNC has about a 67% chance of ending up in the BIG10 if they leave the ACC for any reason.

Gotta agree here, as much as it pains me to say it. This has been my concern all along that our administration is so out of touch with the cultural leanings of our fanbase.

If we were talking a strictly academic/research arrangement, then the B1G might not be such a bad fit.

But geographically, athletically, and culturally the B1G is a ridiculously bad fit. It is a terrible fit actually for all of the reasons previously mentioned.

I honestly hope that if the demise of the ACC does occur that UNC's administration will look beyond just an academic/research partnership and look at the entire big picture. While not as important as academics, athletics are important too.

---------------------------------------------
--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:

I think there is a distinct possibility that UNC would prefer the BIG10 over the SEC, especially if UVA and GT are going in that direction. Every university is run by academic-mided people who believe that academic considerations outweigh all other considerations, even in choosing an athletic conference.

I honestly think UNC has about a 67% chance of ending up in the BIG10 if they leave the ACC for any reason.

---------------------------------------------

Clearly someone who knows nothing about UNC. Kenan has NEVER been "half filled" by any visiting fans. Any more than OSU's stadium is "half filled" by Michigan fans. Please, get a clue before you post on our board....

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--- msjaskon wrote:

I imagine tOSU coming to Kenan would mean the stadium half filled with scarlet.

---------------------------------------------

I just don't believe at the end of the day the UNC administration would choose a midwestern conference over a southern one.

I get excited to think of UNC in the SEC. Would be a move that would give the SEC another boost & something a bit different to the league in doing so, way moreso than any other ACC school, FSU, Clemson, Miami, all of them. Just a perfect fit.

As far as who'd come with UNC..... UVA, Duke or VaTech, I'm relatively indifferent.

Whoever the SEC deems optimal & would want to come along. But UNC is the cherry here.


---------------------------------------------
--- BamainCarolina wrote:

Gotta agree here, as much as it pains me to say it. This has been my concern all along that our administration is so out of touch with the cultural leanings of our fanbase.

If we were talking a strictly academic/research arrangement, then the B1G might not be such a bad fit.

But geographically, athletically, and culturally the B1G is a ridiculously bad fit. It is a terrible fit actually for all of the reasons previously mentioned.

I honestly hope that if the demise of the ACC does occur that UNC's administration will look beyond just an academic/research partnership and look at the entire big picture. While not as important as academics, athletics are important too.

---------------------------------------------
--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:

I think there is a distinct possibility that UNC would prefer the BIG10 over the SEC, especially if UVA and GT are going in that direction. Every university is run by academic-mided people who believe that academic considerations outweigh all other considerations, even in choosing an athletic conference.

I honestly think UNC has about a 67% chance of ending up in the BIG10 if they leave the ACC for any reason.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Like I've posted before, you will see GT and UVA next. It would surprise me if FSU gets an invite, but being in Florida is very interesting. So, then FSU and UNC. Then ND and Kansas to round out 20.

---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

Like I've posted before, you will see GT and UVA next. It would surprise me if FSU gets an invite, but being in Florida is very interesting. So, then FSU and UNC. Then ND and Kansas to round out 20.

---------------------------------------------

Never going to happen. The Big can't count is in a dying economic region. As the children of Big 10 graduates go to the in state SEC and ACC schools where their parents live to get jobs the Big can't count will die. Sorry Buck, party's over.

lollars^^^

---------------------------------------------
--- therabidrev wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- Chapel Heel wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

The B1G is a money machine in research and athletics. All B1G schools offer a very broad scope of athletic teams, much like UNC.

SEC is up right now in football, it won't last forever. The decline started last year with Urban leaving and Saban will be next. Throw in Auburn on probation and Arky losing their coach.... Fans are very short sighted, that's why they are not CEO's.

---------------------------------------------

So Florida being the #3 ranked team in the country means they are "declining"? Saban isn't going anywhere, and one of the B1G's best coaches just left to take an SEC job at Arky. I don't think you're short sighted, I think you're legally blind.

---------------------------------------------

A B1G coach who's taken his team to 3 "Granddaddy of Them All" ROSE BOWLS left his championship B1G team to go to a second or third tier SEC team in a small market town in a ridiculously tough division. The handwriting is on the wall in large print.

---------------------------------------------

BB to Arky. was not just football related.

---------------------------------------------
--- phatassjungle wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- therabidrev wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- Chapel Heel wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

The B1G is a money machine in research and athletics. All B1G schools offer a very broad scope of athletic teams, much like UNC.

SEC is up right now in football, it won't last forever. The decline started last year with Urban leaving and Saban will be next. Throw in Auburn on probation and Arky losing their coach.... Fans are very short sighted, that's why they are not CEO's.

---------------------------------------------

So Florida being the #3 ranked team in the country means they are "declining"? Saban isn't going anywhere, and one of the B1G's best coaches just left to take an SEC job at Arky. I don't think you're short sighted, I think you're legally blind.

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A B1G coach who's taken his team to 3 "Granddaddy of Them All" ROSE BOWLS left his championship B1G team to go to a second or third tier SEC team in a small market town in a ridiculously tough division. The handwriting is on the wall in large print.

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BB to Arky. was not just football related.

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BB was a drunk and womanizer. He was warned and given a short leash. Alverez built the Wisky of today, not BB. Heck, Wisky finished third in their division this year. He is a step down from Petrino.

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--- expatriateheel wrote:



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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

Like I've posted before, you will see GT and UVA next. It would surprise me if FSU gets an invite, but being in Florida is very interesting. So, then FSU and UNC. Then ND and Kansas to round out 20.

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Never going to happen. The Big can't count is in a dying economic region. As the children of Big 10 graduates go to the in state SEC and ACC schools where their parents live to get jobs the Big can't count will die. Sorry Buck, party's over.

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Every state in the B1G has grown every year except Michigan, and this is due to the auto industry. The B1G states still have massive cities and populations, and are growing.

Most of the growth in the sun belt is Latino. Latinos like soccer, not football.

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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:



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--- expatriateheel wrote:



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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

Like I've posted before, you will see GT and UVA next. It would surprise me if FSU gets an invite, but being in Florida is very interesting. So, then FSU and UNC. Then ND and Kansas to round out 20.

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Never going to happen. The Big can't count is in a dying economic region. As the children of Big 10 graduates go to the in state SEC and ACC schools where their parents live to get jobs the Big can't count will die. Sorry Buck, party's over.

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Every state in the B1G has grown every year except Michigan, and this is due to the auto industry. The B1G states still have massive cities and populations, and are growing.

Most of the growth in the sun belt is Latino. Latinos like soccer, not football.

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Would you be so kind to link a study showing population growth in the SE is Latino? Also, would you provide a link that show that the midwest isn't losing relative population, jobs and college graduates? Your university graduates are leaving for the SE the same way African Americans left the South for jobs in the midwest and NE from 1900-1960.

Our administration is quite capable of screwing up and affiliating with the can't count league but our alumni by no means support such idiocy.

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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:



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--- expatriateheel wrote:



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--- WinchesterBUCK wrote:

Like I've posted before, you will see GT and UVA next. It would surprise me if FSU gets an invite, but being in Florida is very interesting. So, then FSU and UNC. Then ND and Kansas to round out 20.

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Never going to happen. The Big can't count is in a dying economic region. As the children of Big 10 graduates go to the in state SEC and ACC schools where their parents live to get jobs the Big can't count will die. Sorry Buck, party's over.

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Every state in the B1G has grown every year except Michigan, and this is due to the auto industry. The B1G states still have massive cities and populations, and are growing.

Most of the growth in the sun belt is Latino. Latinos like soccer, not football.

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Indeed they do. I saw a road rage incident the other day sparked by two Hispanic gentlemen who were politely arguing over who was the best supporter of Wake Forest futbol.

"You are Deacs soccer!"

"No, amigo, you are Deacs soccer!"

Their exchange was passionate...

How much, culturally, does your fan base have in common with BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville , VT and Miami?
The current ACC is a cultural hodge podge. If cultural fit was so important, than the ACC would never have expanded.

UNCs academic and athletic culture is more similar to B1G schools than it is to SEC schools.
How would UNC be able to successfully compete in a sports conference who members are rumored to be cheating when they recruit?

In order for UNC to successfully compete in the SEC, y'all would have to sacrifice your integrity, and I don't see that happening.

That's why the B1G is the best fit. If GT and UVa are coming along, than how much are you really giving up culturally ? Not much when compared with the current ACc as Y'all could play the woofies and dook OOC.




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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

Gotta agree here, as much as it pains me to say it. This has been my concern all along that our administration is so out of touch with the cultural leanings of our fanbase.

If we were talking a strictly academic/research arrangement, then the B1G might not be such a bad fit.

But geographically, athletically, and culturally the B1G is a ridiculously bad fit. It is a terrible fit actually for all of the reasons previously mentioned.

I honestly hope that if the demise of the ACC does occur that UNC's administration will look beyond just an academic/research partnership and look at the entire big picture. While not as important as academics, athletics are important too.

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--- DeadeyeDirk wrote:

I think there is a distinct possibility that UNC would prefer the BIG10 over the SEC, especially if UVA and GT are going in that direction. Every university is run by academic-mided people who believe that academic considerations outweigh all other considerations, even in choosing an athletic conference.

I honestly think UNC has about a 67% chance of ending up in the BIG10 if they leave the ACC for any reason.

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One last point. UNC will either be a have by joining the SEC or B1G or a have not by remaining in the ACC. B1G schools are being projected to earn 40 million from their TV contracts by 2020 or sooner. ACC schools won't be able to compete making half as much or even less, which is why some are reported to be itching to leave. By joining the B1G, UNC secures its financial future and ensures that football will be playing the highest level of available competition. Otherwise football will be stuck in a tier 2 league, much like how the big east was regarded.

Finally, I'd be very leery of regarding Notre dame as a savior. They are using the ACC the same way they used the Big East. It's funny how history seems to be repeating itself.

"In order for UNC to successfully compete in the SEC, y'all would have to sacrifice your integrity, and I don't see that happening."

This is laughable given the B1G's recent run of off the field antics. But don't take my word for it.

sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--s...-athletics.html

How true!!

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--- Mike4UK wrote:

"In order for UNC to successfully compete in the SEC, y'all would have to sacrifice your integrity, and I don't see that happening."



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Well said.....

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--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

How true!!

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--- Mike4UK wrote:

"In order for UNC to successfully compete in the SEC, y'all would have to sacrifice your integrity, and I don't see that happening."



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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

But geographically, athletically, and culturally the B1G is a ridiculously bad fit.

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I'm not going to comment on culture, because I'm not from NC, so I'm in no position to argue there, though I think your assessment that the B1G is a "ridiculously bad" fit culturally is overstated.

However, your claim that the B1G is geographically a "ridiculously bad fit" could be entirely incorrect. If you assume the B1G is OK going to 20 and expands in the way I outlined above, the B1G would be a BETTER geographical fit than the SEC. Here are the miles between the four closest B1G opponents for UNC (as the crow flies) in the above expansion scenario:

UNC-Duke: 10 Miles
UNC-UVA: 149 Miles
UNC-UMD: 233 Miles
UNC-GT: 336 Miles

That averages out to the four closest B1G schools being 182 miles away from Chapel Hill. Let's look at the four closest SEC opponents:

USC: 173 Miles
Tenn: 272 Miles
Georgia: 280 Miles
Kentucky: 334 Miles

That averages out to the four closest SEC opponents being 264 miles away. If you take out Kentucky and throw Duke into the SEC's slate, the average is 184 miles for the SEC - almost identical to the B1G.

State College is 353 miles away, Nashville is 433. Columbus is 343 miles away, Auburn is 433 miles away. Bloomington is 468 miles away, Birmingham is 469 miles away. The furthest trip in the B1G would be 1,013 miles to Lincoln, while the furthest trip in the SEC would be 1,062 miles.

Any way you cut it, the travel would be pretty much identical between a B1G 20 & the SEC, so don't use the geography excuse. Both the SEC & B1G are conferences that are dispersed West/East, not North/South - UNC would be on the eastern fringe of either conference.

Athletically and academically, a B1G 20 (like I proposed above) would be superior to the SEC in every way except for maybe baseball, so again, that excuse doesn't hold water.

North Carolina is a Southern State in the Southeastern part of the U.S. We are not in the Midwest. The B1G is overwhelmingly a Midwestern-oriented conference. The SEC is an overwhelmingly Southeastern-oriented conference. It is that simple.

Our alumni have friends, family, and coworkers that tend to have ties to other schools in our region.

It's not entirely about distance - it is about sphere of influence. And ours is centered on the Southeast.

I am a UNC alum and I actually like the fact that I know and work with NCSU, VT, UVA, Duke, ECU, Clemson, GT, and Wake alums. Living in the Southeast, I also know and work with quite a few UF, UGA, UT, Alabama, and USCe alums as well.

This familiarity fosters rivalries. It is what makes college athletics so much fun. In my 20 year work career, other than PSU and UMD alums, I almost never interact with alums from B1G schools. I can honestly say that living in NC, I have yet to meet a single person who attended Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Iowa, Northwestern, Michigan, or Purdue. I have met a few OSU grads but that's about it.

The states that immediately surround us are VA, SC, GA, and TN. Not a B1G state in the bunch.

This is not a complicated argument. North Carolina is nowhere near the Midwest and we are not anywhere close to being under a Midwestern sphere of influence. It is a bad fit.

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--- blackngold05 wrote:


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--- BamainCarolina wrote:

But geographically, athletically, and culturally the B1G is a ridiculously bad fit.

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I'm not going to comment on culture, because I'm not from NC, so I'm in no position to argue there, though I think your assessment that the B1G is a "ridiculously bad" fit culturally is overstated.

However, your claim that the B1G is geographically a "ridiculously bad fit" could be entirely incorrect. If you assume the B1G is OK going to 20 and expands in the way I outlined above, the B1G would be a BETTER geographical fit than the SEC. Here are the miles between the four closest B1G opponents for UNC (as the crow flies) in the above expansion scenario:

UNC-Duke: 10 Miles
UNC-UVA: 149 Miles
UNC-UMD: 233 Miles
UNC-GT: 336 Miles

That averages out to the four closest B1G schools being 182 miles away from Chapel Hill. Let's look at the four closest SEC opponents:

USC: 173 Miles
Tenn: 272 Miles
Georgia: 280 Miles
Kentucky: 334 Miles

That averages out to the four closest SEC opponents being 264 miles away. If you take out Kentucky and throw Duke into the SEC's slate, the average is 184 miles for the SEC - almost identical to the B1G.

State College is 353 miles away, Nashville is 433. Columbus is 343 miles away, Auburn is 433 miles away. Bloomington is 468 miles away, Birmingham is 469 miles away. The furthest trip in the B1G would be 1,013 miles to Lincoln, while the furthest trip in the SEC would be 1,062 miles.

Any way you cut it, the travel would be pretty much identical between a B1G 20 & the SEC, so don't use the geography excuse. Both the SEC & B1G are conferences that are dispersed West/East, not North/South - UNC would be on the eastern fringe of either conference.

Athletically and academically, a B1G 20 (like I proposed above) would be superior to the SEC in every way except for maybe baseball, so again, that excuse doesn't hold water.

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