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--- pjdennis wrote:

Before Penn State joined the Big Ten, they had $150,000,000 research budget. After joining the Big Ten, according to HERD they are above UNC in research budget. Penn State has enjoyed an almost half billion dollar per year improvement from joining. No administrated is going to pass that up.

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You are comparing budgets from 1992 to 2012 and ascribing all the gains to the alignment with this CIC? How fast was Penn State's funding increasing prior to joining the Big Ten? I think that would be valuable information.

FWIW, UNC's research budget has gone up from $275MM in 1995 to $767MM in 2012 (the data I have doesn't go back to 1992). My guess is that the numbers in 1992 were around $200MM from looking at the chart, but that's just extrapolation.

research.unc.edu/about/facts-r...nding/index.htm

The CIC COULD help UNC get more research dollars, but let's not pretend it is going to go up hundreds of millions of dollars. UNC does better than anyone in the Big Ten in getting research grants considering how small of a school it is. Penn State is between two and three times the size of UNC...I would hope that a school that size in a state as big and wealthy as Pennsylvania (with basically very little competition in the whole state) would be able to land more grant money than UNC. IMO, the only thing that is surprising is that it doesn't have more research funding.

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--- BuckyNut wrote:

Hey all, first let me say if "PJ whoever" is from the B1G let me say we're not all like that. And the comment he made about Kansas and NC being about the same made me laugh also.

Just want you to know that I think you guys would make a great addition to the B1G and whatever your thoughts are toward the Big Ten, I think some of you have misconceptions. We are a strong conference in most sports, and I think would be good for you guys in BB as well.

We'll see what happens in the next few days.

---------------------------------------------

We appreciate the props, Bucky.

Our No 1 goal is to hold the ACC together. We are one of the founding members. Currently, most of the other schools are a driveable distance away. Plus, we have history with these schools. Some of it ancient history. In the Big 10, those elements would disappear almost altogether.

Losing Maryland was a mixed feeling. It sucked to have a founding member leave, but, I understand why they did it. The only thing I will say about their fans is that they have not always been the most hospitible (sp?) bunch. Either here or in College Park. Not all of them by any means, but, from my own experiences, a bigger number than any other fanbase in the ACC.

I am pretty excited to have Pitt and Syracuse coming in next season, and, Louisville in 2014. If we hold it together, it will be a fun league.

So how is this coming along for everyone?

The CIC COULD help UNC get more research dollars, but let's not pretend it is going to go up hundreds of millions of dollars. UNC does better than anyone in the Big Ten in getting research grants considering how small of a school it is. Penn State is between two and three times the size of UNC...I would hope that a school that size in a state as big and wealthy as Pennsylvania (with basically very little competition in the whole state) would be able to land more grant money than UNC. IMO, the only thing that is surprising is that it doesn't have more research funding.

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I do not wish to be insulting or demeaning at all but in all candor, most of you do not understand how the CIC works. It is a weak research consortium and a weak procurement co-op. However it is a strong lobby and that is where the rubber meets the road.

Let's say Wisconsin applies for a medical research grant to investigate ovarian cancer through the NIH, $2 million. Wisconsin's congressional politicians will support this as will the congressional politicians of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. Of course, they're all awaiting their turn.

The CIC actually has an office in Wash DC. They don't call it a lobby but what else would it be doing?

And now we have New Jersey and Maryland joining the feeding frenzy. Delightful!

I can look at the CIC web site .... take my shoes off and count ....

15 people work there .... 15 .....

the Univ. of Michigan - just the Univ. of Michigan - has 40,000 employees - 40,000 ....... the employees at Michigan engaged directly or in support of research there has to number in the tens of thousands ....... closer to 15,000 than 15 ...........

I'm sure those 15 people at CIC work hard and do good things ... but it's still only 15 people ..... it is a pimple on a fly speck compared to the scale and scope of the all research programs at all 10 or 15 or how many ever Big 10 universities there are .....

if the CIC financial resources equated to 1% of the combined research funding for these universities, I might concede that it is a trivial aspect of these schools' research .... but it's not 1% .... it's 1/25th of 1 percent ...... 1/25th of trivial .......

and what any of this has to do with athletics it's even more ridiculous that it's brought up here ....... the top research universities are most often found at places like Hopkins and the Ivy League that don't even play Division 1 sports .......


maybe I could sell this guy my solid mahogany Ikea bookcase ......



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--- Boilerbuilder wrote:

The CIC COULD help UNC get more research dollars, but let's not pretend it is going to go up hundreds of millions of dollars. UNC does better than anyone in the Big Ten in getting research grants considering how small of a school it is. Penn State is between two and three times the size of UNC...I would hope that a school that size in a state as big and wealthy as Pennsylvania (with basically very little competition in the whole state) would be able to land more grant money than UNC. IMO, the only thing that is surprising is that it doesn't have more research funding.

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I do not wish to be insulting or demeaning at all but in all candor, most of you do not understand how the CIC works. It is a weak research consortium and a weak procurement co-op. However it is a strong lobby and that is where the rubber meets the road.

Let's say Wisconsin applies for a medical research grant to investigate ovarian cancer through the NIH, $2 million. Wisconsin's congressional politicians will support this as will the congressional politicians of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. Of course, they're all awaiting their turn.

The CIC actually has an office in Wash DC. They don't call it a lobby but what else would it be doing?

And now we have New Jersey and Maryland joining the feeding frenzy. Delightful!

---------------------------------------------

wierd. you must have a difficult time finding shoes that fight right.


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--- BethelRegiment wrote:

I can look at the CIC web site .... take my shoes off and count ....

15 people work there .... 15 .....

the Univ. of Michigan - just the Univ. of Michigan - has 40,000 employees - 40,000 ....... the employees at Michigan engaged directly or in support of research there has to number in the tens of thousands ....... closer to 15,000 than 15 ...........

I'm sure those 15 people at CIC work hard and do good things ... but it's still only 15 people ..... it is a pimple on a fly speck compared to the scale and scope of the all research programs at all 10 or 15 or how many ever Big 10 universities there are .....

if the CIC financial resources equated to 1% of the combined research funding for these universities, I might concede that it is a trivial aspect of these schools' research .... but it's not 1% .... it's 1/25th of 1 percent ...... 1/25th of trivial .......

and what any of this has to do with athletics it's even more ridiculous that it's brought up here ....... the top research universities are most often found at places like Hopkins and the Ivy League that don't even play Division 1 sports .......


maybe I could sell this guy my solid mahogany Ikea bookcase ......



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--- Boilerbuilder wrote:

The CIC COULD help UNC get more research dollars, but let's not pretend it is going to go up hundreds of millions of dollars. UNC does better than anyone in the Big Ten in getting research grants considering how small of a school it is. Penn State is between two and three times the size of UNC...I would hope that a school that size in a state as big and wealthy as Pennsylvania (with basically very little competition in the whole state) would be able to land more grant money than UNC. IMO, the only thing that is surprising is that it doesn't have more research funding.

---------------------------------------------

I do not wish to be insulting or demeaning at all but in all candor, most of you do not understand how the CIC works. It is a weak research consortium and a weak procurement co-op. However it is a strong lobby and that is where the rubber meets the road.

Let's say Wisconsin applies for a medical research grant to investigate ovarian cancer through the NIH, $2 million. Wisconsin's congressional politicians will support this as will the congressional politicians of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and Nebraska. Of course, they're all awaiting their turn.

The CIC actually has an office in Wash DC. They don't call it a lobby but what else would it be doing?

And now we have New Jersey and Maryland joining the feeding frenzy. Delightful!

---------------------------------------------

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Since a good portion of this grant money is coming from the printing press based on bonds purchased by the FED, instead of from the tax coffers, and seeing that the gravy train is about to derail, I am pretty sure discussions of grant money, as far as it comes from the government, for more than the next couple years is a waste of time. We won't be able to afford it once interest rates get to 8% or so anyway, and $2 million won't be able to buy a car. Not to mention this is about athletics anyway.

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--- GforHeels wrote:

Since a good portion of this grant money is coming from the printing press based on bonds purchased by the FED, instead of from the tax coffers, and seeing that the gravy train is about to derail, I am pretty sure discussions of grant money, as far as it comes from the government, for more than the next couple years is a waste of time. We won't be able to afford it once interest rates get to 8% or so anyway, and $2 million won't be able to buy a car. Not to mention this is about athletics anyway.

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All of this is possibly true, the thing I dont understand is UNC people seem a bit snobby like the B10 folks with academics. I've read the comments about NCState and how many look down upon them for the academic prowess, so my question is what would you prefer? Ivy League, B10, SEC? and why? (and I'm putting them in order of how the academic side would feel)

B1G misconception, the CIC does not solicit grants or distribute any money whatsoever. It is essentially the sharing of data,resources, and education opportunities.

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--- Mike4UK wrote:

B1G misconception, the CIC does not solicit grants or distribute any money whatsoever. It is essentially the sharing of data,resources, and education opportunities.

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What "denomination" is Grant money? I don't recall seeing his picture on bills I normally carry in my wallet. 'Course, most of the bills I carry have pictures of Jeff Davis, Stonewall, and General Lee. ;-)

BTW, no one can say your B1G title game wasn't exciting, at least for Wisky fans, or maybe moreso for whisky fans. As for me, if I plan on gathering in Indianapolis to cheer for a bunch of Tar Heels, it will either be at a Final Four or the Brickyard.

$50 .....

research funds have commonly come to be called "Grant money" because researchers will often pay subjects $50 to participate in their research protocol ..... (ie, if you have 'X' condition, come in and take the pill or the placebo, etc. and we'll give you your Grant money - $50) ........


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--- therabidrev wrote:


What "denomination" is Grant money? I don't recall seeing his picture on bills I normally carry in my wallet. 'Course, most of the bills I carry have pictures of Jeff Davis, Stonewall, and General Lee. ;-)

---------------------------------------------

What Mike4UK said.

I have been to several CIC meetings in my interest area. You get a nice lunch. The CIC is in part about sharing ideas; finding out what similarly situated offices on the other campuses are doing. It's important because if anything new is tried one of the first questions asked is what are the other Big 10 schools doing? Just last week I answered a survey sent by one of the Big 10 schools on the standard of proof used for discrimination and ethics investigations.

One specific example of what the CIC does: they negotiated a contract with a company to provide criminal background checks for hiring new staff at the Big 10 institutions. We are switching to that provider.

Money is not shared although CIC schools will partner on grant requests. This is done by the Principal Investigators, not the CIC. UW-Madison is the lead university for the Great Lakes Bioenergy Research Center and partners with Michigan State on the grant.

I want the SEC for Athletics if we leave the ACC simply because it is the only place we fit in. Otherwise we will be leaving our world for someone else's home. There are differences of course, but North Carolina has a lot more in common with most of the SEC states than with any of the Big Ten states.

Ivy League, not about sports anymore.

Bottom line:

First Choice: SEC
Second Choice:

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- GforHeels wrote:

Since a good portion of this grant money is coming from the printing press based on bonds purchased by the FED, instead of from the tax coffers, and seeing that the gravy train is about to derail, I am pretty sure discussions of grant money, as far as it comes from the government, for more than the next couple years is a waste of time. We won't be able to afford it once interest rates get to 8% or so anyway, and $2 million won't be able to buy a car. Not to mention this is about athletics anyway.

---------------------------------------------

All of this is possibly true, the thing I dont understand is UNC people seem a bit snobby like the B10 folks with academics. I've read the comments about NCState and how many look down upon them for the academic prowess, so my question is what would you prefer? Ivy League, B10, SEC? and why? (and I'm putting them in order of how the academic side would feel)

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it's not just the academics at NC Statesux ... that's just a small part of it ......... just to boil it down - we basically just don't like it that every time these people exhale they add an immeasurably small amount to the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere ....


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--- buckeye4573 wrote:


...... I've read the comments about NCState and how many look down upon them for the academic prowess, ..........

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Exactly, state fans waste valuable O2.

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--- BethelRegiment wrote:


it's not just the academics at NC Statesux ... that's just a small part of it ......... just to boil it down - we basically just don't like it that every time these people exhale they add an immeasurably small amount to the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere ....


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--- buckeye4573 wrote:


...... I've read the comments about NCState and how many look down upon them for the academic prowess, ..........

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---------------------------------------------

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

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--- GforHeels wrote:

Since a good portion of this grant money is coming from the printing press based on bonds purchased by the FED, instead of from the tax coffers, and seeing that the gravy train is about to derail, I am pretty sure discussions of grant money, as far as it comes from the government, for more than the next couple years is a waste of time. We won't be able to afford it once interest rates get to 8% or so anyway, and $2 million won't be able to buy a car. Not to mention this is about athletics anyway.

---------------------------------------------

All of this is possibly true, the thing I dont understand is UNC people seem a bit snobby like the B10 folks with academics. I've read the comments about NCState and how many look down upon them for the academic prowess, so my question is what would you prefer? Ivy League, B10, SEC? and why? (and I'm putting them in order of how the academic side would feel)

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SEC, for geography, culture, and, for the chance to restart some long dormant rivalries.

We have a lot of history with South Carolina (who was in the ACC from '53-'71, IIRC).

Plus, we could renew old rivalries with Georgia and Tennessee. We do not have that with any B10 school.

Not to mention, late-season trips to SEC locales like Athens, Gainesville, Tuscaloosa, and, Baton Rouge would trump trips to Columbus, Ann Arbor, Madison, Minneapolis, etc.

No offense, buckeye fan, just prefer the warmer Southern climate in the fall. :)

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--- buckeye4573 wrote:

...what would you prefer? Ivy League, B10, SEC? and why? (and I'm putting them in order of how the academic side would feel)

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UNC is a liberal arts university that has athletics as a big part of the total student experience. To that end, having non-scholarship athletics like the Ivy League has would not be what UNC would want to do in terms of fulfilling the total mission of the school. So that really leaves is to the SEC v. the Big Ten. Obviously, Big Ten academics are better, but just because that is the case doesn't mean that UNC would positively be effected by that association. Honestly, part of UNC's success in terms of research has been the collaboration between UNC Hospitals and Duke Hospital which is driven by geography (8 miles) much more so than athletic conference affiliation.

I would think a move to the Big Ten or the SEC would not end that relationship between the two schools. In my field (chemistry), there is much more collaboration between UNC and NC State's researchers (chemists v. chemical engineers--their battles will be legendary). This is another collaboration that is driven much more by proximity than conference affiliation. If we went to the Big Ten and State went to the SEC, I would think there would be too much invested to stop the relationship between the two schools in certain projects. Perhaps new relationships would start with Vanderbilt or Penn State or Florida or Michigan, but I would hope those that we already have wouldn't go away also.

So I guess it comes down to culture and geography in which the SEC probably wins although there are several SEC schools that are more like community colleges in terms of their admissions requirements than the Big Ten. That being said, there are more GOOD schools within close proximity in the SEC than in the Big Ten.

Honestly, I would prefer to make the ACC work. First step is for ESPN and the ACC to release what the renegotiated media deal is worth now that Louisville and a portion of Notre Dame is added.

FWIW RantSports reporting FSU to the Big 12.

RantSports previously wrote an article profiling its top four potential targets of Big XII expansion, they were:

FSU
Clemson
Tulsa
Houston

Not sure RantSports knows what they are talking about.

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--- Jason113 wrote:

FWIW RantSports reporting FSU to the Big 12.

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Yeah, just thought I would throw that out there.

Some people are reporting on a Seminole fan site that ESPN Dallas radio is reporting FSU has agreed to join the Big XII, so there is more buzz than just RantSports on the topic, but I don't believe it's true. I believe the FSU administration is fully committed to the ACC.

We've heard this week that GTech, UVa and/or Cuse are joining the Big Ten.

We've even heard that VTech and NC State are going to the SEC.

UNC has been linked to both of those leagues in the rumor mill.

It's becoming a sport now apparently to float rumors of who's joining what conference. I just do not think that anyone else is leaving the ACC. Our President Barron said that some changes are coming, but I believe he meant to the ESPN deal. The BTN is owned by Fox, and Fox has the rights to the top two Big XII games every week. ESPN needs to pony up the cash in the renegotiation to make sure our deal is in the ballpark of the other leagues' so noone has a reason to defect. This is the key I think. If ESPN wants to keep that inventory (and they've lost a bunch of it with the BTN, Big XII's Fox deal, and Pac-12's Fox deal... not to mention the Big East turning into C-USA), then they need the ACC. The money will be close when it is all said and done and the ACC will stay together.

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

Ha you could insert any school (maybe not wake, uva, or bc) into those first few sentences instead of FSU and still have it be accurate.

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--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

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--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:


... Obviously, Big Ten academics are better, but just because that is the case doesn't mean that UNC would positively be effected by that association. Honestly, part of UNC's success in terms of research has been the collaboration between UNC Hospitals and Duke Hospital which is driven by geography (8 miles) much more so than athletic conference affiliation.

I would think a move to the Big Ten or the SEC would not end that relationship between the two schools. In my field (chemistry), there is much more collaboration between UNC and NC State's researchers (chemists v. chemical engineers--their battles will be legendary). This is another collaboration that is driven much more by proximity than conference affiliation. If we went to the Big Ten and State went to the SEC, I would think there would be too much invested to stop the relationship between the two schools in certain projects. Perhaps new relationships would start with Vanderbilt or Penn State or Florida or Michigan, but I would hope those that we already have wouldn't go away also.

So I guess it comes down to culture and geography in which the SEC probably wins although there are several SEC schools that are more like community colleges in terms of their admissions requirements than the Big Ten. That being said, there are more GOOD schools within close proximity in the SEC than in the Big Ten...
---------------------------------------------


So if I'm reading you correctly it appears that you'd give the nod academically to the Big Ten, but would favor the SEC in culture & proximity. How about athletics? I don't see where the SEC sponsors a number of varsity sports that UNC competes: Men's Lacrosse, soccer, wrestling, and women's field hockey, lacrosse, & rowing. It appears that M/W's Lacrosse are the only sports not sponsored by the B1G, and the addition of UNC (or 1 other program) would give them the 6th member required to start an AQ league. I know that the Tar Heels think highly of their non-revenue sports. Would they still prefer the SEC knowing that 6 of their varsity sports would need to tough it out as an independent, get scattered throughout various "smaller" conferences, or have to be cancelled because the conference can't host them?

---------------------------------------------
--- keystonekc wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:


... Obviously, Big Ten academics are better, but just because that is the case doesn't mean that UNC would positively be effected by that association. Honestly, part of UNC's success in terms of research has been the collaboration between UNC Hospitals and Duke Hospital which is driven by geography (8 miles) much more so than athletic conference affiliation.

I would think a move to the Big Ten or the SEC would not end that relationship between the two schools. In my field (chemistry), there is much more collaboration between UNC and NC State's researchers (chemists v. chemical engineers--their battles will be legendary). This is another collaboration that is driven much more by proximity than conference affiliation. If we went to the Big Ten and State went to the SEC, I would think there would be too much invested to stop the relationship between the two schools in certain projects. Perhaps new relationships would start with Vanderbilt or Penn State or Florida or Michigan, but I would hope those that we already have wouldn't go away also.

So I guess it comes down to culture and geography in which the SEC probably wins although there are several SEC schools that are more like community colleges in terms of their admissions requirements than the Big Ten. That being said, there are more GOOD schools within close proximity in the SEC than in the Big Ten...
---------------------------------------------


So if I'm reading you correctly it appears that you'd give the nod academically to the Big Ten, but would favor the SEC in culture & proximity. How about athletics? I don't see where the SEC sponsors a number of varsity sports that UNC competes: Men's Lacrosse, soccer, wrestling, and women's field hockey, lacrosse, & rowing. It appears that M/W's Lacrosse are the only sports not sponsored by the B1G, and the addition of UNC (or 1 other program) would give them the 6th member required to start an AQ league. I know that the Tar Heels think highly of their non-revenue sports. Would they still prefer the SEC knowing that 6 of their varsity sports would need to tough it out as an independent, get scattered throughout various "smaller" conferences, or have to be cancelled because the conference can't host them?

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We would sacrifice non-revenue sports in the short term. I have no doubt UGA, Vandy, ALA, FLA, A&M, Ole Miss, LSU or some combination would add those sports if we needed them to. Also, if UVA came with us the problem shrinks immediately. As alumni, we just don't have any desire at all to join the Big1G. It would be catastrophic.

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--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

Map of new conference alignments after 2014:

gatewayno.com/history/LaPurchase.html

There you have it.......well written, and probably the consensus of the FSU Alumni

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--- NorthStateNole wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

ESPN will not give the ACC a new deal...and that is the rub of it all. ESPN has contracts with other conferences as well...for example the B1G. The ACC, as we've all grown to know it, is almost over. FSU has a big decision to make...SEC...Big 12...and yes...possibly B1G.
---------------------------------------------
--- NorthStateNole wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

Gopher get back in your hole. You have no idea what ESPN will do and the Big1G is nothing more than the representative group of a dying, demographically declining economic wasteland. Regardless of what the individual schools in the ACC do for conference affiliation they will surpass the Big1G schools inevitably. The wealthy and educated are moving south and east. The Big1G insiders know this and made a desperate grab of MD and Rutgers trying to force the hand of ND, GaT, UVA and UNC and failed.

---------------------------------------------
--- Gopher1968 wrote:

ESPN will not give the ACC a new deal...and that is the rub of it all. ESPN has contracts with other conferences as well...for example the B1G. The ACC, as we've all grown to know it, is almost over. FSU has a big decision to make...SEC...Big 12...and yes...possibly B1G.
---------------------------------------------
--- NorthStateNole wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
--- CornbreadandCollards wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- buckeye4573 wrote:

...what would you prefer? Ivy League, B10, SEC? and why? (and I'm putting them in order of how the academic side would feel)

---------------------------------------------

UNC is a liberal arts university that has athletics as a big part of the total student experience. To that end, having non-scholarship athletics like the Ivy League has would not be what UNC would want to do in terms of fulfilling the total mission of the school. So that really leaves is to the SEC v. the Big Ten. Obviously, Big Ten academics are better, but just because that is the case doesn't mean that UNC would positively be effected by that association. Honestly, part of UNC's success in terms of research has been the collaboration between UNC Hospitals and Duke Hospital which is driven by geography (8 miles) much more so than athletic conference affiliation.

I would think a move to the Big Ten or the SEC would not end that relationship between the two schools. In my field (chemistry), there is much more collaboration between UNC and NC State's researchers (chemists v. chemical engineers--their battles will be legendary). This is another collaboration that is driven much more by proximity than conference affiliation. If we went to the Big Ten and State went to the SEC, I would think there would be too much invested to stop the relationship between the two schools in certain projects. Perhaps new relationships would start with Vanderbilt or Penn State or Florida or Michigan, but I would hope those that we already have wouldn't go away also.

So I guess it comes down to culture and geography in which the SEC probably wins although there are several SEC schools that are more like community colleges in terms of their admissions requirements than the Big Ten. That being said, there are more GOOD schools within close proximity in the SEC than in the Big Ten.

Honestly, I would prefer to make the ACC work. First step is for ESPN and the ACC to release what the renegotiated media deal is worth now that Louisville and a portion of Notre Dame is added.

---------------------------------------------

I'm with Cornbread, I'd prefer to stay in a viable ACC IF it could work. If not, for reasons ad nauseum, I'd rather go with the SEC. The B1G is a great league made up of excellent universities, they're just not what I would call peers.

Gopher, Why are you over here ? Aren't you just content with being the perennial B1G whipping boy in all sports and the home of the single dumbest congresswoman.........?????? I believe the United Staes is working on trading you to Canada for Prince Edward Island and future considerations.......

---------------------------------------------
--- Gopher1968 wrote:

ESPN will not give the ACC a new deal...and that is the rub of it all. ESPN has contracts with other conferences as well...for example the B1G. The ACC, as we've all grown to know it, is almost over. FSU has a big decision to make...SEC...Big 12...and yes...possibly B1G.
---------------------------------------------
--- NorthStateNole wrote:



---------------------------------------------
--- tarheelmiracle wrote:

For our friends that are FSU fans, could you please lay it out here? What does FSU feel the ACC needs to do to make them happy since many Seminoles seem to be miserable in the ACC and are always wanting to blame Swofford and UNC for all their woes?

---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Well Done, good read and made some really good points. I hope the negotiations go well and ESPN ponies up the cash to help level the playing field.

---------------------------------------------
--- NorthStateNole wrote:



---------------------------------------------

I think the segment of the FSU fanbase that blames Swofford or Tobacco Road for all their woes are just looking for something to hold on to for blame, it certainly is a glib analysis. The ACC adds schools like Syracuse and Pitt and some FSU fans cry, why not a "real" football power. Problem is, the "real football power tree" is out of fruit; the Penn States and Georgias of the world are spoken for. But, there is an issue with the Tier 3 rights going to Raycom, and Swofford's son's position at Raycom make some Nole fans feel there was an inside deal there that benefited the Swofford family to the detriment of the overall media rights package (the alternatives being either using that Tier 3 content to start up an ACC Network, or letting the individual schools sell them... though each can if the Tier 3 providers do not pick up the content).

Aside from that, there is no consensus among FSU fans about our conference home. I would say the faction that wants to defect certainly is vocal about it, but I think the silent majority wants to stay if it is financially feasible, and that is the heart of the question.

FSU has been in the ACC for twenty years now, we are not really an expansion school anymore, we have some sweat equity in this league. I believe the academic profile of the league has been beneficial to FSU. We are in the top 100 nationally and it is a very good school whose reputation has always lagged behind its actual quality. I don't want to overstate the ACC association's impact on FSU's academic standing, but to be associated with such strong schools lifts all boats. Our administration--at least the president and the Faculty Senate--are adamant that the value of the ACC association to the school academically is an important consideration (many people say Bobby Bowden steered us into the ACC instead of the SEC back in '91... it was really the Faculty Senate that did that).

When talking about sports other than football, the ACC is the premier league in the country. I do not believe this is debatable. Our basketball is second to none (and bringing Cuse and the Ville aboard, wow). Our Olympic sports are the best in the country too, and FSU has become a perennial top ten school in the Director's Cup standings. No other league offers FSU the platform the ACC does. People forget there are real human beings at FSU playing volleyball, running track, playing soccer. Realignment is about the money, no doubt, and football dwarfs everything else put together. But, we cannot become myopic because of that. If FSU went to the Big XII, what additional revenues would be eaten up by the additional travel across all sports? Probably not all of it, but it is not a zero sum game either, there would be added costs of joining a league for another region that would offest some of the additional profit.

But while the last couple of years, and especially since the SEC expanded, the FSU fanbase has been of two minds about our conference affiliation, what may be tipping the balance is that if the monetary disparity is so great between the ACC and say SEC, there is worry we simply will not be able to compete long-term. If UF makes $10mil more a year on the SEC's media rights and bowl package, over ten years that's $100mil. This is the problem, we cannot keep up with the Joneses with numbers like that. With the ACC signing with the Orange Bowl for $27.5mil, yeah, we have a seat at the table. But the SEC/Big XII/Big Ten/Pac-12 champs all get $40mil. And the SEC or Big Ten can get a second team in the Orange which gets paid the same money as the ACC champ. When that deal came out and the ACC was clearly behind the other four leagues in potential major bowl earnings, as well as the media rights deal... well, the numbers are what they are and I think some people's eyes opened a little wider.

To me the ticket out of this rests with ESPN. The Big Ten Network is owned by Fox (51% anyways), and Fox just took the Tier 1 and some Tier 2 content for both the Big XII and Pac-12. That's a lot of content for ESPN to lose. With the addition of ND and the reopening of negotiations, to occur in a less depressed economic climate than when we negotiated our current deal, if ESPN wants the ACC to provide a backbone for its overall inventory profile, it will need to step up to the plate and offer the ACC a deal more on par with the other four leagues'. ESPN is already losing market share, if FSU and Clemson bolt for the Big XII, UVa and GTech for the Big Ten, and UNC and VTech for the SEC (or whatever combo of teams to whatever combo of conferences), then the ACC is basically gutted, and Fox Sports wins on all three of those scenarios. Will ESPN let that happen? We also need to get an ACC Network up and running, as BTN showed it takes some time to build steam but eventually the carriage in the ACC region would fill the coffers with some much needed revenue. We have to get the Tier 3 rights back and some Tier 2 for that venture, which hopefully will be part of the renegotiation.

So, in short, FSU is content in the ACC. Some of our t-shirt fans want out in the worst way, but our fans that are graduates and otherwise appreciate the academic and non-football prowess of the ACC realize how good we have it. But in the end, it will come down to money, not out of greed, but out of fear that we have to have more to keep up with our (mostly SEC affiliated) neighbors.

We are as scared that you guys will bolt for the Big Ten or SEC as you are that we will bolt. If UNC and FSU stand pat, the ACC will be alright... but we need a new deal from ESPN and we need ESPN to have a sense of urgency to pony up the cash to keep our league viable, that is the key to the whole puzzle.

---------------------------------------------

ESPN will not pony up more cash for the ACC....well...they can't.

ESPN is look upon by some of you as "ACC TV", but it's not. ESPN has contractual agreements with other conferences...and can't get into putting more money in the ACC coffers....BTW, did you all see the ACCCG TV ratings?


As for the comments about the Rust Belt being a dying region of the US...well...maybe yes, maybe no.

But what is real important right now is UVA & UNC seeing UMD receiving millions more in revenue from being in the B1G vs. themsleves staying in the ACC, which can not, in anyway, change the projection of the revenue gap vs. B1G.


UNC & UVA are incredible universities, and will stay that way for the next 100 years.

Both universities will do the right thing for themselves...leave the ACC behind.

Where do they go?....I thought it would be B1G...but the new future SEC TV setup, and other clear factors, may bring both schools to the SEC.

But the ACC is no more.

I thought expat told you to go back to your hole.

Ok....I will go back into my hole. Still better than having your heads deep in the sand.

All hails and praise to North Carolina, a school who will not be left holding the ACC bag.





---------------------------------------------
--- unchristopher wrote:

I thought expat told you to go back to your hole.

---------------------------------------------

Just at least let the other folks there at your public library have some time at the one and only free computer in town...........

Don't worry about us......we'll be fine. You need to worry more about not burning the fries, making sure the apple pies are warm, and the hourly restroom cleanings.........

---------------------------------------------
--- Gopher1968 wrote:

Ok....I will go back into my hole. Still better than having your heads deep in the sand.

All hails and praise to North Carolina, a school who will not be left holding the ACC bag.





---------------------------------------------
--- unchristopher wrote:

I thought expat told you to go back to your hole.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

Just Released



College Football - Profits only
Data from U.S. Department of Education (ope.ed.gov/athletics)


Michigan = 61.6 Million
Penn St = 36.0 Million
Ohio St = 24.0 Million
Nebraska = 36.5 Million
Iowa = 28.5 Million
Michigan St = 30.7 Million
Wisconsin = 24.2 Million
Minnesota = 16.8 Million
Illinois = 14.4 Million
Northwestern= 7.4 Million
Indiana = 8.9 Million
Purdue = 5.3 Million

Clemson = 15.5 Million
Florida St. = 12.4 Million
Georgia Tech = 14.6 Million
North Carolina = 10.9 Million
North Carolina St = 12.6 Million
Virginia = 6.8 Million
Boston College = 3.7 Million
Maryland = 5.7 Million
Wake Forest = 3.1 Million
Duke = 4.9 Million



The B1G profits for Football only is ONLY GOING TO GROW.

The ACC Football money is now flat, and will be in the future, FLAT.


Do you all think Clemson & Florida St enjoy having profits less than Minnesota in Football????!!!

Florida Football profit = 51.1 Million.
South Carolina Football profit = 26.0 Million


ACC athletic programs are still turning profits for the most part over-all....and that is a good thing.


However, the revenue from football is projected to grow for SEC & B1G schools....but not so for ACC schools.

North Carolina will go to the SEC or B1G.

But the ACC, as it's been constructed for the most part...for the last 40 years is over.

So, if the ACC collapses........UNC will wind up in the SEC......why would we settle for second place in joining the B1G ?
IF you're going to allude to the most amount of money, then post the SEC numbers. They are the premier league in college football. the B1G is just a blip in the SEC's mirror.


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--- Gopher1968 wrote:

Just Released



College Football - Profits only
Data from U.S. Department of Education (ope.ed.gov/athletics)


Michigan = 61.6 Million
Penn St = 36.0 Million
Ohio St = 24.0 Million
Nebraska = 36.5 Million
Iowa = 28.5 Million
Michigan St = 30.7 Million
Wisconsin = 24.2 Million
Minnesota = 16.8 Million
Illinois = 14.4 Million
Northwestern= 7.4 Million
Indiana = 8.9 Million
Purdue = 5.3 Million

Clemson = 15.5 Million
Florida St. = 12.4 Million
Georgia Tech = 14.6 Million
North Carolina = 10.9 Million
North Carolina St = 12.6 Million
Virginia = 6.8 Million
Boston College = 3.7 Million
Maryland = 5.7 Million
Wake Forest = 3.1 Million
Duke = 4.9 Million



The B1G profits for Football only is ONLY GOING TO GROW.

The ACC Football money is now flat, and will be in the future, FLAT.


Do you all think Clemson & Florida St enjoy having profits less than Minnesota in Football????!!!

Florida Football profit = 51.1 Million.
South Carolina Football profit = 26.0 Million


ACC athletic programs are still turning profits for the most part over-all....and that is a good thing.


However, the revenue from football is projected to grow for SEC & B1G schools....but not so for ACC schools.

North Carolina will go to the SEC or B1G.

But the ACC, as it's been constructed for the most part...for the last 40 years is over.

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