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"Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins"

  • 33wcat
  • Head Coach
  • 13372 posts this site

Posted: 8/25/2014 8:20 AM

"Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Does anyone think PF is taking a shot at Butch on this one? People need to remember Majors only won 5 his second yr after taking over the program in similar condition. And Majors didn't play 8 SEC games either.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:28 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


No.
33wcat wrote: Does anyone think PF is taking a shot at Butch on this one? People need to remember Majors only won 5 his second yr after taking over the program in similar condition. And Majors didn't play 8 SEC games either.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:30 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Butch himself has said his expectations are the same.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:41 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


I read the article in full.... in no way did Fulmer take a shot at Butch, he was very complimentary of the program and asked for patience from the fan base. Positive article for sure.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:49 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


I took it as a compliment as well. Butch said a few weeks ago, "When we get to a bowl game."  So, I think the expectation has been set by the current head coach. Furthermore, I don't really think Fulmer has any ill will towards the program or anyone in the Athletic Department, especially now that Hamilton is gone. I think he only supports and uplifts the program in any fashion he can. He's not just a Vol For Life. He's a Vol Forever.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 8:54 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

It's been rainin' that Tennessee Honey so long
I got too heavy to fly...
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Posted: 8/25/2014 9:15 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 



33wcat wrote: Does anyone think PF is taking a shot at Butch on this one? People need to remember Majors only won 5 his second yr after taking over the program in similar condition. And Majors didn't play 8 SEC games either.
No. I am sure some will look at it that way, but i think those are looking for something to blast Fulmer for.
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  • iuvol
  • Back up
  • 461 posts this site

Posted: 8/25/2014 9:22 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Absolutely not.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:03 AM

No way he was being negative. 



TuckerVol wrote:
33wcat wrote: Does anyone think PF is taking a shot at Butch on this one? People need to remember Majors only won 5 his second yr after taking over the program in similar condition. And Majors didn't play 8 SEC games either.
No. I am sure some will look at it that way, but i think those are looking for something to blast Fulmer for.
Exactly right, Tucker.

Last edited 8/25/2014 10:04 AM by timmessee

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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:03 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:37 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


I hate to think were headed for the dreaded 5 and 7 again this season. Looking at the schedule it seems quite likely. Florida and Missouri are the wildcard games. I hope we can figure a way to get six wins none of our games other than Chattanooga are easy.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 10:59 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 



golferman wrote: Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------
Your point is well taken, but there is a dramatic difference in the situation when Fulmer took over and Majors took over. The bigger difference is that Fulmer took what Majors gave him and took it to better results than Majors had achieved with it. Majors took over bare bones and achieved a level of success, but was never consistent, until he aligned the staff to have Fulmer as the OC and Cutcliffe as the QB coach. That is when the level of success took off and pretty much stayed there.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:19 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Vols were 38-9-2 in the 4 years before Fulmer took over, with SEC Championships in 1989 and 1990.

Vols were 23-27 in the 4 years before Jones took over.
golferman wrote: Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------

Last edited 8/25/2014 11:26 AM by spudvol28

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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:32 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


Amazing isn't it? Fulmer had nothing to do with developing those dominate, great offensive lines that got the Majors' era over the hump. I'm sure he was poor recruiter as well. At least he's not on Finebaum or some other outlet airing our University's dirty laundry.


---------------------------------------------
--- golferman wrote:

Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:55 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 



golferman wrote: Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------
Majors won the SEC 2 of his last 3 full years, so that's SEC championship level by anyone's standard.  Greg's comments were spot on.  The players you named were part of what Greg meant by the next level.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 11:57 AM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 



TuckerVol wrote:
golferman wrote: Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------
Your point is well taken, but there is a dramatic difference in the situation when Fulmer took over and Majors took over. The bigger difference is that Fulmer took what Majors gave him and took it to better results than Majors had achieved with it. Majors took over bare bones and achieved a level of success, but was never consistent, until he aligned the staff to have Fulmer as the OC and Cutcliffe as the QB coach. That is when the level of success took off and pretty much stayed there.
With you logic  Fulmer wasn't much without Cut.
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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:01 PM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


What's amazing is that a couple of people have taken something Amsler said, which really isn't disputable on any reasonable basis, and used unnecessary sarcasm to create a straw man argument that wasn't needed at all. Goodness, nobody even remotely attacked Fulmer.


---------------------------------------------
--- 1982Vol wrote:

Amazing isn't it? Fulmer had nothing to do with developing those dominate, great offensive lines that got the Majors' era over the hump. I'm sure he was poor recruiter as well. At least he's not on Finebaum or some other outlet airing our University's dirty laundry.


---------------------------------------------
--- golferman wrote:

Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

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"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities."   - Voltaire

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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:13 PM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


The issue I have with his statement is the Fulmer "inherited" the team. I could be too sensitive to this but CPF was the OC who was widely known as our top recruiter and I am in no way bashing Majors here but some would argue was the main reason for our turnaround.




---------------------------------------------
--- cherokee04 wrote:

What's amazing is that a couple of people have taken something Amsler said, which really isn't disputable on any reasonable basis, and used unnecessary sarcasm to create a straw man argument that wasn't needed at all. Goodness, nobody even remotely attacked Fulmer.


---------------------------------------------
--- 1982Vol wrote:

Amazing isn't it? Fulmer had nothing to do with developing those dominate, great offensive lines that got the Majors' era over the hump. I'm sure he was poor recruiter as well. At least he's not on Finebaum or some other outlet airing our University's dirty laundry.


---------------------------------------------
--- golferman wrote:

Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------

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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:15 PM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 


So, you have to be the head coach to experience building a program from the ground up?
Really? Nothing's disputable......lmao, ok Kee

---------------------------------------------
--- cherokee04 wrote:

What's amazing is that a couple of people have taken something Amsler said, which really isn't disputable on any reasonable basis, and used unnecessary sarcasm to create a straw man argument that wasn't needed at all. Goodness, nobody even remotely attacked Fulmer.


---------------------------------------------
--- 1982Vol wrote:

Amazing isn't it? Fulmer had nothing to do with developing those dominate, great offensive lines that got the Majors' era over the hump. I'm sure he was poor recruiter as well. At least he's not on Finebaum or some other outlet airing our University's dirty laundry.


---------------------------------------------
--- golferman wrote:

Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------

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Posted: 8/25/2014 12:59 PM

Re: "Surely we can get 6 or 7 wins" 



OldVol74 wrote:
TuckerVol wrote:
golferman wrote: Good grief! I forgot Majors handed Fulmer Manning, Martin, Coleman, Price, Witten, Jamal Lewis , etc.

You can argue about what happened later on his watch but your statement is not factual no matter how you try to spin it.


---------------------------------------------
--- GregAmsler wrote:

I took it with a grain of salt. Fulmer showed he could take the program to a National Championship level from the SEC championship level he'd inherited. But he has no experience building from the ground up. And they're different things. Some can do one, some can do the other, some can do both.

---------------------------------------------
Your point is well taken, but there is a dramatic difference in the situation when Fulmer took over and Majors took over. The bigger difference is that Fulmer took what Majors gave him and took it to better results than Majors had achieved with it. Majors took over bare bones and achieved a level of success, but was never consistent, until he aligned the staff to have Fulmer as the OC and Cutcliffe as the QB coach. That is when the level of success took off and pretty much stayed there.
With you logic  Fulmer wasn't much without Cut.
No, that's not what i am saying at all. Majors did a good job of bringing talent back to the program, to be perfectly honest, it took him from 1977 to 1985 before he reached what i would call next level. After 1985, he could not repeat that level until 1989. Starting in 1989 we went on a 12 year run where we hit next level.

I believe, and always will believe, that this transformation started with David Cutcliffe becoming QB coach in 1990 and Phillip Fulmer being promoted to OL and OC in 1989. At that point, our offense graduated from 3 yards and a cloud of dust to a full range offense that kept opponents on their heels.

This is not to say that coach Majors brought nothing to this program. There is no doubting his coaching ability. But, he did not hit his stride until he hit the right combination with hs assistants.

Fulmer, when he took over for good in 1993, was blessed with a dynamic set of tools and an OC that has proven over the years to be one of the best in the business. He had a hiccup in 1994, related more to horrible injuries and inexperience at critical positions. Many have proposed the idea that Fulmer was nothing without Cutcliffe. Well winning at a 70% clip from 1999 - 2005 ain't too shabby. I bet there isn't a single person on this board that would not take that record over the last 5 years.

What amazes me the most is that all of this got started because Amsler pointed out that Fulmer's situation was dramatically different from Majors. He was right. He said nothing wrong. Where i made my mistake was to expand on his statement and point out that i felt that Majors best years was when his staff included Fulmer and Cutcliffe in critical positions. I guess that struck a nerve with some who might appreciate Majors more than they do Fulmer.


*** Edit ***

I will further illustrate my point by stating that Fulmer had massive defensive issues early in his career. But, those were resolved with his promotion of Johnny Chavis to DC in 1995. A move that most of you will remember was not very popular amongst the fanbase. Turned out that Fulmer was right and the fanbase was wrong. A situation that has repeated itself at an alarming rate over the years.

Last edited 8/25/2014 1:05 PM by TuckerVol

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