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Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it

Posted: 7/1/2014 6:55 PM

Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


Be great to see some of our better athletes playing soccer for the US? Some of the guys looked like wusses compared to many of the teams they played. Beasly # 5 was small, slow AND out of position. The Green kid looks like a real athlete. # 2 looks like he could be a corner back at UT. JJ absolutely... But some of the others not so much. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Lebron or a Anothony Johnson or even an Eric Berry out there that are fast and strong and physical. The US has more athletes than any country. They just don't play soccer.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:14 PM

We had this exact conversation on the way home from watching... 


I will again preface by saying I don't know a lot about the game. With that said, it appeared the most teams had better athletes, were better coached and had better soccer players. When the other teams have 10 times as many shots on goal as the US team and live at our end, that can't be good.

I agree that if our country's best athletes had chosen soccer as their life-long profession, things would be different. Not sure how much professional soccer players make, but it can't be as much as the NBA, NFL, and Baseball guys. Oh, and forgot our track athletes...




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--- decovol wrote:

Be great to see some of our better athletes playing soccer for the US? Some of the guys looked like wusses compared to many of the teams they played. Beasly # 5 was small, slow AND out of position. The Green kid looks like a real athlete. # 2 looks like he could be a corner back at UT. JJ absolutely... But some of the others not so much. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Lebron or a Anothony Johnson or even an Eric Berry out there that are fast and strong and physical. The US has more athletes than any country. They just don't play soccer.

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Posted: 7/1/2014 7:20 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


You need to check out Renadlo's and Messi's salaries. Forbes has a recent listing of all leading athletes incomes
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Posted: 7/1/2014 8:34 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


I prefer American Football period, and have no desire to see our best athletes playing soccer vs. our other big sports. But that's just me, if i wanted to become a soccer fan I would have a long time ago. I
t just doesn't do nothing for me and am kinda tired of it being crammed down our throat. I have nothing against soccer, I just don't like it nearly as good as baseball,football,basketball or hockey for that matter. GO VOLS!!

Last edited 7/1/2014 8:34 PM by wildorange

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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:18 PM

Re: We had this exact conversation on the way home from 



PhantomVol wrote: Not sure how much professional soccer players make, but it can't be as much as the NBA, NFL, and Baseball guys. 

From Forbes:  The World's 100 Highest-Paid Athletes 2014

I'll just survey the Top 16. I'm sure we won't find any soccer players in there. Must be filled with NBA, NFL, and Baseball guys.

What's that? Soccer players make money? Lots of it, you say?

#2 - $80 Million - Cristiano Ronaldo - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...stiano-ronaldo/

#4 - $64.7 Million - Lionel Messi - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...4-lionel-messi/

#12 - $40.4 Million - Zlatan Ibrahimovic - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...an-ibrahimovic/

#14 - $36.4 Million - Gareth Bale - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...14-gareth-bale/

#15 - $35.4 Million - Radamel Falcao - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...radamel-falcao/

#16 - $33.6 Million - Neymar - http://www.forbes.com/pictures...imdj/16-neymar/


That's 6 of the top 16 highest paid athletes in the world.

If you're interested in the others, among the other 10 of those top 16 are 3 basketball players, 2 boxers, 1 football player, 2 tennis players, and 2 golfers.

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Posted: 7/1/2014 9:54 PM

Re: We had this exact conversation on the way home from 


Belgium has 11 guys that play in the English Premier League. They are considerably more talented than us.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 11:08 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 



wildorange wrote: I prefer American Football period, and have no desire to see our best athletes playing soccer vs. our other big sports. But that's just me, if i wanted to become a soccer fan I would have a long time ago. I
t just doesn't do nothing for me and am kinda tired of it being crammed down our throat. I have nothing against soccer, I just don't like it nearly as good as baseball,football,basketball or hockey for that matter. GO VOLS!!

Really?  Crammed down your throat?

For what?  Two weeks.....every four years.

Oh the humanity..........tongue


usflag.gif
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Posted: 7/1/2014 11:15 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


Beasley had a strong performance.  He played midfield for a long time but moved to left back when it was clear that nobody else was going to do it.  I can't think of a time today where he was beaten on an overlap, and he did a good job of tracking back after moving forward.  Both of our fullback were supposed to move forward frequently or the offense wouldn't have any width, playing with Zusi and Bedoya high and three central midfielders.

Johnson actually wasn't doing well before he was removed for Yedlin.  Yedlin is exact same size as Beasley, so it's weird you would single Beasley out.  Yedlin, by the way, is faster than Eric Berry.
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Posted: 7/1/2014 11:51 PM

You might want to watch the tape again 


On the first goal the Belgium player tossed # 5 off of him like he was paper. Then took off towards the goal. On the last goal # 5 was running in circles behind the guy that scored. I am not a knowledgeable soccer tactician but the guys I was with were former college players. Even they couldn't believe it.

Ok so the one guy is the same size as Eric berry. How many 6'3, 4.5 guys are out there? To compare the US athletes on the soccer team to that of other sports is crazy. Especially when most of your best and biggest athletes are black. That is just the reality. Not racist. Just true.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 6:59 AM

Re: You might want to watch the tape again 


You meant Besler, not Beasley.  Besler is 6'1" tall.  He got "thrown off" by a 6'3" superstar striker who played his first minute during Besler's 90th.  It was a big mistake by Besler but it wasn't because he was small, or weak, or slow.

Eric Berry is 6'0", which makes him smaller than Besler.  He's about the same size and speed as Fabian Johnson, the right back who left with a hamstring injury and was replaced by Yedlin, who is faster but smaller.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 7:36 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


Respectfully disagree with this comment.  The conditioning/stamina to play soccer is much greater.  This tends to lead to a different body type.  I just don't see that many elite football/basketball players that could translate into elite soccer players.  If they had at a younger age, I think their body development would be a lot different.  Would Lebron James be a great soccer player, possibly, I just don't think he would weigh nearly as much.  The two best soccer players in the world are 5'7" and 6'1" and I doubt both are north of 200 lbs.  The two best athletes in my fraternity back in the day were a former college CB and a UT club soccer player.  They were about the same height, but the soccer player was faster/skinnier.  USA played extremely well overall in this tournament.  They got beat, but, they've got a bright future.
decovol wrote: Be great to see some of our better athletes playing soccer for the US? Some of the guys looked like wusses compared to many of the teams they played. Beasly # 5 was small, slow AND out of position. The Green kid looks like a real athlete. # 2 looks like he could be a corner back at UT. JJ absolutely... But some of the others not so much. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Lebron or a Anothony Johnson or even an Eric Berry out there that are fast and strong and physical. The US has more athletes than any country. They just don't play soccer.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 9:00 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


I say the following at the risk of this topic turning into an Area 51 subject. I hope that doesn't happen.

I think there are some socio-economic elements to this topic. You don't see an lot of soccer moms in the ghetto's of New Orleans or Chicago. Those kids (i.e. Honey Badger/ Da'Rick/ DeSean Jackson/ Derek Rose) are on the basketball courts and in a field trying to play football. We have seen this play out in baseball in recent years as well. Baseball and soccer appeal to a more affluent population.  I'm not saying that an affluent population can't produce great athletes. I'm saying that the pool of talent to choose from shrinks significantly because soccer doesn't appeal to the inner city youth.

bigalvol27 brought up an excellent point regarding a smaller and faster athlete. We need a Reggie Bush/ Barry Sanders/ Wes Welker type player to play soccer for our national team.

Last edited 7/2/2014 9:09 AM by Huttdawg100

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Posted: 7/2/2014 9:41 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


We've already got small and fast guys.  Our team hasn't lacked in speed, getting a lot of freedom on the flanks using fast fullbacks when we decided to go forward against Portugal and Belgium.  Nobody was beating Yedlin to the touchline.

We needed better first touches yesterday.  Generally we just aren't as good at that as the European or South American teams, being more tactically sound instead.  When the ball gets to our players, they need to be able to quickly stop it or redirect it with control, and not many of our players really have that skill.  Bradley does, but he didn't do very well at it in this tournament.

That's the kind of skill that grows up best when you're playing the sport as a pickup game with your friends, which is where the relative lack of popularity among our urban youth is a problem.  Klinsmann noticed something, though: the Hispanic population is already larger than the black population, and soccer is massively popular among many of them.  Hence he's pushed for greater engagement with the Hispanic population in the youth development teams and he's spent a lot of time overhauling the youth development system to make it easier to access it even if you don't have funds.

Dempsey, despite being Anglo, actually grew up out of that Hispanic soccer culture in Texas.  It's one of the reasons his style of play is so strange -- it's basically a highly-skilled version of playground ball.  Probably my favorite of his goals was at Fulham vs. Juventus in Europa League I think in 2010, where he gets the ball outside of the box and figures "why not?", then chips it over the goalkeeper from 30 yards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPkQ6YdRCbQ

The reason I know we don't have a problem with athleticism on the team is because it is never a liability for our players in foreign leagues.  The reputation of the American players abroad is that they are physical beasts without technical prowess.  They'll run more than any other player you put out there, have a better work rate, and never be physically beaten by another player, but they won't be able to stop the ball on a dime.  We're getting way better at that in recent years, but we're still not there.  In 4 years we'll have a roster built around Bradley, Boyd, Johansson, Green, Yedlin, Brooks, and Chandler.  We'll still be physically superior to just about every opponent, but we'll finally have the technical abilities that we need to succeed, and the youth pipeline should finally conform to Klinsmann's standards.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 10:25 AM

KC...obviously your knowledge of soccer is 


light years ahead of mine...and I am sure the guys on the soccer squad are fast, but again there is no way those white boys can keep up with the average wide receiver or corner back in the NFL...in fact there may be more than a few LB's, RB's and even DE's that are just as fast and substantially bigger... I am sure many of the NBA players are bigger, stronger and faster as well....

I understand that soccer is a game of endurance but you got to be in pretty darn good shape to play in the other sports as well...and that does not even include the physical demands of contact in the NFL or NBA...You see a guy get hit in soccer and go down and I understand that can hurt, especially with no padding..but that happens on EVERY PLAY to every player in the NFL..that takes a toll on endurance as well..I once heard that playing on the kickoff team in the NFL was the equivalence of taking your body and running full speed and jumping straight into a brick wall..the impact was about the same...Even with padding and helmets that is still pretty devastating to the body..

Anyway, I think the team did great...no question...my comment was it would be incredible to see the best athletes in the US grow up playing soccer and what they could do...
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Posted: 7/2/2014 10:50 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


I just get confused on the "best" athletes. You assume the best athletes are not in soccer. I would say its hard to determine the "best" athlete strictly by the sport they play. Who is a better athlete, the person who is great at multiple sports or the guy who is phenomenal at one. I get your point, better athletes can translate into better performance, all around, but I agree with KC, athleticism was not our problem, it is ball skill where we need improvement.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 10:52 AM

Re: KC...obviously your knowledge of soccer is 


NFL players do have to have incredible strength, but the endurance demands are not the same.  The average football player runs 2 miles in 3 hours.  The average soccer player runs 5-6 miles in 2 hours.  And while much of that running is jogging to get into position, you're expected to make a 50-60 meter dash in about 5-6 seconds at the drop of a dime.  You need joggers who can sprint.

As for us needing black players, the fastest player in the world right now is a white Welshman and he would give any American football player a run for his money:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QMTnnBUnqM

Not that  our white guys are slow.  10 seconds between getting the ball in our own box and scoring in this play:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXkModt0v1s

60 meters in 6 seconds vs. Costa Rica (saw this live):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbuHYKdFMUc

Speed is not a problem.

Last edited 7/2/2014 10:59 AM by kckempf

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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:42 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


I don't think it's as much about race as it is about opening the talent pool up to other parts of our society. KC, you hit the nail on the head with regard to the changing of the demographic structure in America with the Hispanic community growing exponentially. As the hispanic population continues to grow, the talent pool will continue to swell as well. Wes Welker was the best wide receiver in the NFL for a 3-5 year time span. Revis couldn't stop him. I agree that speed may not be the issue, but I think that a guy with the athleticism of Reggie Bush or Cordarrelle Patterson were to play soccer from day one for the US, we'd be much better.

KC, do we have a guy with the athleticism of Wes Welker, CP or Reggie Bush on the US national team?
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Posted: 7/2/2014 11:53 AM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


Yedlin might be as fast as any of them, but it's creative play that make Welker, Patterson, and Bush amazing.  Welker is faster than the safeties he faces and knows where to be almost intuitively.  Patterson and Bush are both elusive runners with enough speed to break away.  Guys like Yedlin and Brek Shea (who didn't even make the World Cup roster) have that kind of athletic ability but don't have the creativity.  Bradley and Dempsey are creative, but while they aren't slow they aren't going to break away from anybody.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:32 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


disagree with your disagree tongue

the culture of the sport lends to the body type.  no, the offensive linemen and defensive linemen on our team would never be soccer players because they are generally too big and slow.  but guys like north, hurd, etc could be great at the sport.  because they are football players they have spent a lot of their training bulking up with exercises like clean & jerks, bench, squats and other power exercises.  had they chosen soccer at a young age, they would have spent a lot more time running, agility training and running and more running.  that would lend to a different body type.

there are other factors too.  american diet has a lot to do with it.  on a whole, we are fatter.
bigalvol27 wrote: Respectfully disagree with this comment.  The conditioning/stamina to play soccer is much greater.  This tends to lead to a different body type.  I just don't see that many elite football/basketball players that could translate into elite soccer players.  If they had at a younger age, I think their body development would be a lot different.  Would Lebron James be a great soccer player, possibly, I just don't think he would weigh nearly as much.  The two best soccer players in the world are 5'7" and 6'1" and I doubt both are north of 200 lbs.  The two best athletes in my fraternity back in the day were a former college CB and a UT club soccer player.  They were about the same height, but the soccer player was faster/skinnier.  USA played extremely well overall in this tournament.  They got beat, but, they've got a bright future.
decovol wrote: Be great to see some of our better athletes playing soccer for the US? Some of the guys looked like wusses compared to many of the teams they played. Beasly # 5 was small, slow AND out of position. The Green kid looks like a real athlete. # 2 looks like he could be a corner back at UT. JJ absolutely... But some of the others not so much. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Lebron or a Anothony Johnson or even an Eric Berry out there that are fast and strong and physical. The US has more athletes than any country. They just don't play soccer.
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Posted: 7/2/2014 12:49 PM

Re: Not a huge soccer guy but wouldn't it 


Then we are both in disagreement tongue
GhostOfArchvol wrote: disagree with your disagree tongue

the culture of the sport lends to the body type.  no, the offensive linemen and defensive linemen on our team would never be soccer players because they are generally too big and slow.  but guys like north, hurd, etc could be great at the sport.  because they are football players they have spent a lot of their training bulking up with exercises like clean & jerks, bench, squats and other power exercises.  had they chosen soccer at a young age, they would have spent a lot more time running, agility training and running and more running.  that would lend to a different body type.

there are other factors too.  american diet has a lot to do with it.  on a whole, we are fatter.
bigalvol27 wrote: Respectfully disagree with this comment.  The conditioning/stamina to play soccer is much greater.  This tends to lead to a different body type.  I just don't see that many elite football/basketball players that could translate into elite soccer players.  If they had at a younger age, I think their body development would be a lot different.  Would Lebron James be a great soccer player, possibly, I just don't think he would weigh nearly as much.  The two best soccer players in the world are 5'7" and 6'1" and I doubt both are north of 200 lbs.  The two best athletes in my fraternity back in the day were a former college CB and a UT club soccer player.  They were about the same height, but the soccer player was faster/skinnier.  USA played extremely well overall in this tournament.  They got beat, but, they've got a bright future.
decovol wrote: Be great to see some of our better athletes playing soccer for the US? Some of the guys looked like wusses compared to many of the teams they played. Beasly # 5 was small, slow AND out of position. The Green kid looks like a real athlete. # 2 looks like he could be a corner back at UT. JJ absolutely... But some of the others not so much. Wouldn't it be cool to see a Lebron or a Anothony Johnson or even an Eric Berry out there that are fast and strong and physical. The US has more athletes than any country. They just don't play soccer.
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