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When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is at a

Posted: 5/26/2014 12:38 AM

When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is at a 


disadvantage when it comes to stacking rosters with out of state players.  Take today's soft ball game.  Oklahoma hits a ground ball that Geer could have easily had or at least knocked the ball down to save a run if she had dived for the ball. Not knocking the Weekly's or the kid she is a freshman after all and I know they are forced to go out of state to bring in talented players.  My point is that play reminded me of so many big games especially football where teams like Florida against Fulmer or even Alabama back when Majors had trouble beating them had advantages in big games by having most of their players homegrown so to speak. It's just human nature that a homegrown kid is going to fight harder to win because he does not want to face his family or friends back home after losing a big game. I am not saying this to knock out of state players just stating a fact of human nature.

I think Butch Jones realizes that this past year he was lucky that there was a decent crop of in-state kids and a lot of them were legacy kids. The legacy kids from out of state are just like in state kids. They are not going to disappoint their dads by giving up. That is why I am looking forward to this class of Freshman as many are home grown and how they will perform to the max  especially when the game is on the line. Pride if you are a local kid is always a big motivator.  If they are SEC level players one thing these kids will have is the fight and determination that will hopefully influence the other out of state players to give their all.   Pat Summit is such a great coach because she got the most from all players regardless of where they are from. Fulmer did not in my opinion especially against Florida in his latter years. Don't get me wrong Tennessee still has to recruit nationally. But in the coming years I hope the state is able to produce more and more SEC level players.  This will help down the road when you are playing  Florida, Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, and other SEC schools with mostly homegrown talent on their rosters. Alabama has recruited more nationally since Saban has arrived but like Summit he gets the most out of players period or they are gone.

Last edited 5/26/2014 12:46 AM by birddog16

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Posted: 5/26/2014 4:04 AM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


I respectfully disagree with your theory ....... Your theory states M. North won't compete has hard has J. Malone in a game because he isn't from Tennessee .......Or that M. North didn't compete as hard has J.Smith last year because he isn't from Tennessee......I know a lot of athletes who would strongly disagree with your theory
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Posted: 5/26/2014 9:42 AM

Starters on 98 team not from Tennessee 


Eric Digou, Mercedes Hamilton, Cosey Coleman, Jarvis Reado, Peerless Price, Tee Martin, Shawn Bryson, Jamal Lewis/Travis Henry, Shaun Ellis, Jeff Coleman, Darwin Walker, Corey Terry, Raynoch Thompson, Dwayne Goodrich, Steve Johnson, Fred White, Deon Grant and David Leaverton.

If  they had played just a little harder we might have won a NC!
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Posted: 5/26/2014 10:24 AM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


That sucks for Oklahoma, since their high schools turn out less talent in all sports than TN high schools.

I wonder how they win at such a high level?

noidea

It's been rainin' that Tennessee Honey so long
I got too heavy to fly...
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Posted: 5/26/2014 12:05 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 



GregAmsler wrote: That sucks for Oklahoma, since their high schools turn out less talent in all sports than TN high schools.

I wonder how they win at such a high level?

noidea
Well, it doesn't hurt that the entire state of Texas is just on the other side of the Red River! cool
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Posted: 5/26/2014 12:11 PM

Re: Starters on 98 team not from Tennessee 



Hootervol wrote: Eric Digou, Mercedes Hamilton, Cosey Coleman, Jarvis Reado, Peerless Price, Tee Martin, Shawn Bryson, Jamal Lewis/Travis Henry, Shaun Ellis, Jeff Coleman, Darwin Walker, Corey Terry, Raynoch Thompson, Dwayne Goodrich, Steve Johnson, Fred White, Deon Grant and David Leaverton.

If  they had played just a little harder we might have won a NC!
Yea and what was their record against Florida over their college careers ?  Don't give me they beat Alabama and Georgia and others that was because we had better talent and coaching.  Your guys miss the point as usual. I am not saying that  Peyton Manning did not want to win as much as Todd Helton or did not compete as hard. It's the mental aspect of preparing for big games and the pressure from your peers to refuse to lose. The point is if I am a coach with equal or even a little less talented team but with homegrown players I will beat you more times than you will me if your team is not comprised of mostly homegrown players.  I played sports all my life all the way through the University of Tennessee so I kind know a little about what I am talking about.  I bet you if you asked Butch Jones, Fulmer, Majors, Tyndall, or any coach with some knowledge they will tell you the same thing.

Last edited 5/26/2014 12:18 PM by birddog16

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Posted: 5/26/2014 12:53 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


Completely disagree. Its more about the mental make-up of the individual. Some people are just better when the pressure is at its highest, some let pressure get to them and it leads to mistakes. It always sounds good to say homegrown talent will play harder but that's just not the case. The best of the best are in the NFL. Does that mean my Steelers should try to draft kids that grew up Steelers fans cause they will play harder during crunch time? Like I said....it all has to do with the individual. Certain guys just excel during crunch time....has nothing to do with where they are born.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 1:23 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


I don't know if the point is valid or not.  I suspect that's just one of many factors.  However, I often wonder how out-of-state players who aren't legacies are affected by mantras like "I will give my all for Tennessee" (with the outline of the state).  It's not I will give my all for "UT" or the "Volunteers", but the state.  Or when coaches like CBJ talk about things like making the state proud or such things.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 1:42 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 



Ironvol wrote:
GregAmsler wrote: That sucks for Oklahoma, since their high schools turn out less talent in all sports than TN high schools.

I wonder how they win at such a high level?

noidea
Well, it doesn't hurt that the entire state of Texas is just on the other side of the Red River! cool
But that wasn't his point. His point was that instate kids TRY harder. So getting kids from Texas doesn't help that. Furthermore, the states of Georgia and North Carolina sure do provide a lot of talent for UT. But those aren't instate kids, just like TX kids aren't instate kids for OU.

It's been rainin' that Tennessee Honey so long
I got too heavy to fly...
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Posted: 5/26/2014 2:55 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


Give me a kid from Tennessee with equal or
close talent any day !
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Posted: 5/26/2014 3:53 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 



babyvol wrote: Completely disagree. Its more about the mental make-up of the individual. Some people are just better when the pressure is at its highest, some let pressure get to them and it leads to mistakes. It always sounds good to say homegrown talent will play harder but that's just not the case. The best of the best are in the NFL. Does that mean my Steelers should try to draft kids that grew up Steelers fans cause they will play harder during crunch time? Like I said....it all has to do with the individual. Certain guys just excel during crunch time....has nothing to do with where they are born.
I wasn't talking about the NFL.  They are professionals and get paid to play but I will agree there are individuals who are motivated to give their all in preparation and on game day regardless of who they play for instate or an out of state college.  I mentioned Peyton in an earlier thread.   But I am not talking about individuals.  If you line up 8 players from Tennessee and 3 from out of state against a team with 3 instate and 8 out of state players with equal or even a little more talent on paper the Tennessee team will win at least 70 % of the the time.  All you have to is look at history.  That is one of the reasons I used Florida as an example against Fulmer and Alabama against Majors. Bill Battle against Auburn and Alabama. Even though Tennessee back in the 70's early 80's had probably more instate players starting than now but the talent level was not there.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 4:08 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


90% of statistics are made up on the spot. How can you guarantee the team with more players from TN will win 70% of the time? There is absolutely no basis for this. Why has Texas been struggling lately when 90% of their players come from state of Texas???? I can tell you why....because they don't have the individuals to step up to the plate when the pressure is on. It has zero to do with where they are from.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 4:57 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


It all depends on players making plays and when nut-cutten time comes the ones that can pull their chin straps tighter and say if you're going to beat me you are in for one hell of a fight. It's about the leaders stepping up in crunch time and the others fall in line and follow.

Winners are winners and it doesn't matter where they are from. JMHO.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 5:05 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 



babyvol wrote: 90% of statistics are made up on the spot. How can you guarantee the team with more players from TN will win 70% of the time? There is absolutely no basis for this. Why has Texas been struggling lately when 90% of their players come from state of Texas???? I can tell you why....because they don't have the individuals to step up to the plate when the pressure is on. It has zero to do with where they are from.
Don't you think talent or lack thereof might be problem and I agree Brown's players were soft mentally but Mack Brown like Fulmer thought he had enough equity and got lazy when it came to recruiting and coaching overall..  Heart is never measured and can't be measured. That is something a good coach can find when recruiting. Also as an in game coach Brown has never impressed me.  He relied evidently too much on the star power. Fulmer won because he put more talent on the field.  When he got matched up in talent and sheer will was required to win his teams faltered. If a player has no will or not enough will when things get tough then all star ratings and time in the 40's are of little value. Al Wilson proves my point.  If not for him Tennessee probably does not win the NC in 98. You say there is no basis just look at  Florida vs Tennessee when Fulmer had equal or in some cases better talent.  What happened. He lost most of the time.  Johnny Majors against Alabama when he had equal or better talent.  He lost most of the time.  Has nothings to do with stats go look at history.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 5:34 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


I agree to the point that I love having an Andy Kelly or Spencer Riley giving their all for the Vols.  It does make it special when a local kid does well.  Dale Jones, Johnny Majors, Johnny Mills, Johnny Jones, Reggie Cobb, Reggie White, Jermaine Copeland, Tennesseans all I think, and there was something special about them.

When I was in school in '87 and we held the World's Largest Spring Game to that point as I recall, I was pulling for Randy Sanders to win the job over Jeff Francis specifically because he was from Morristown and I think Jeff is from IL.  But Jeff proved better in the long run, so be it.

Likewise I wouldn't tell George "Bad News" Cafego, Andy Kozar or Peyton Manning we would rather have had someone from Knoxville because they cared more.  I've often mentioned my theory that we searched far and wide for talent at least partially because of General Neyland's West Point background and experience dealing with men from all over the country.  How do you develop a nickname like Bad News without playing your heart out.  

I say we embrace our heritage of finding talent where it's at and whenever they want to commit to playing on the Hill.  This will keep the times when local boy makes good all the  more special.   


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Posted: 5/26/2014 6:48 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


This is why the offseason sucks.
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  • PaulVol
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Posted: 5/26/2014 6:53 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


Pat Summit won a lot of games with teams led by out of state players. While I do think it is beneficial to have some players on our teams that grew up wanting to wear the Orange, toughness is not a function of the state in which an athlete grew up.
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Posted: 5/26/2014 9:45 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


Wow! All I can say is......

eek1

When I was in school, I'm sure glad we crossed enemy lines and recruited Bernie and Ernie.

I'll take it easy on the OP, as the post was made in the 'wee hours;' so presumably (?), either alcohol or lack of sleep may have influenced his judgment with his nitiating such a ridiculous notion.
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  • 33wcat
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Posted: 5/26/2014 9:53 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


Texas has filled their class very early in the last years under Brown and this has resulted in a lot of mistakes. Add to it the poor record of development by Brown and his staff and you have their results. It has nothing to do with Texas kids not caring. Just the opposite but they just aren't that good.

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--- babyvol wrote:

90% of statistics are made up on the spot. How can you guarantee the team with more players from TN will win 70% of the time? There is absolutely no basis for this. Why has Texas been struggling lately when 90% of their players come from state of Texas???? I can tell you why....because they don't have the individuals to step up to the plate when the pressure is on. It has zero to do with where they are from.

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Posted: 5/27/2014 7:26 PM

Re: When the going gets tough in big games I feel Tennessee is 


I just scanned the 1998 roster; http://www.utsports.com/sports...l-mtt-1998.html.

Billy Ratliff and Travis Henry made a few big plays when the Arkansas game was on the line.
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