Posted: 04/18/2013 2:51 PM
Cosell and Mayock rank Hayden #1 CB. This means Trufant and Rhodes may fall a little.
Houston cornerback D.J. Hayden is the best story of the 2013 NFL Draft. He was minutes away from dying last November after an on-field collision tore the vena cava blood vessel off the back of his heart -- an injury never before seen in a high-level athlete.
Fortunately, it did.
Hayden entered the draft process with speed and medical concerns. He erased doubts about his speed by blazing a sub-4.40 40-yard dash as Houston's Pro Day. In a pre-draft conference call Thursday, NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock suggested that Hayden now has checked out medically in most draft rooms.
"Most of the teams have come to the conclusion that it was a once-in-a-gazillion situation," Mayock said. "That has no more chance of happening than it did in the first place."
After going back to the film to appreciate Hayden's toughness and tackling ability, Mayock has vaulted Hayden all the way to No. 1 among cornerbacks, ahead of consensus favorite Dee Milliner of Alabama. Hayden also is the top cornerback on NFL Films analyst Greg Cosell's board.
Mayock was particularly impressed with Hayden's performance against Louisiana Tech when he got in second-round wide receiver prospect Quinton Patton's jock and shut him down. "The kid couldn't get off the line," Mayock told the Rich Eisen podcast.
Maycok currently ranks Hayden as the No. 14 overall prospect in the draft.
Last edited 04/18/2013 2:53 PM by uncleloggins
Posted: 04/18/2013 3:09 PM
Last edited 04/18/2013 3:10 PM by NashvilleNiner
Posted: 04/18/2013 3:21 PM
Last edited 04/18/2013 3:39 PM by Minstrel
Posted: 04/18/2013 4:06 PM
Posted: 04/18/2013 5:42 PM
"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."
Posted: 04/19/2013 6:57 AM
Minstrel wrote: College stats are really not the best way to evaluate prospects. Physical abilities that will translate to the NFL game and technique, in addition to how he looks in terms of instincts, are really the keys. I won't claim to be a huge expert on Hayden, but he may not have been challenged much or he may have had good enough coverage that the quarterback threw inaccurately trying to find a way to get the ball past Hayden, or simply threw it away, limiting Hayden's opportunities to turn the ball over. Also, to be clear, I'm not asserting that Hayden is definitely the best corner in the draft, but I think it's a bit unreasonable to state definitively that he is not when extremely respected analysts are saying that he is, or might be.My limited looks at his play suggest to me that he has a ton of talent. More than Milliner? I don't know, but I don't think it's out of the question. I do like Hayden more than Rhodes, whom I think is solid but his "physicality" sometimes strikes me as pass interference and I'm not sure how much he'll be able to get away with that in the NFL. He doesn't strike me as as fluid as Hayden or Milliner.
Posted: 04/19/2013 8:20 AM
NashvilleNiner wrote: Yes, stats aren't the end-all be-all, but they are certainly more important than combine/pro day numbers.And if you're in a lesser Conference/Division, you need to dominate your competition. And stats are an indication of this.
Posted: 04/19/2013 8:33 AM
Minstrel wrote: NashvilleNiner wrote: Yes, stats aren't the end-all be-all, but they are certainly more important than combine/pro day numbers.And if you're in a lesser Conference/Division, you need to dominate your competition. And stats are an indication of this.That has some validity for an offensive player. However, even at the NFL level, interceptions aren't the best measure of dominance for a cornerback. Hayden may very well have dominated in his conference, regardless of interception numbers.
Posted: 04/19/2013 8:35 AM
Posted: 04/19/2013 8:49 AM
Posted: 04/19/2013 9:02 AM
higherwarrior wrote: it's not just about dominating the competition though- danny weurfel dominated the competition as an SEC QB at florida some years ago.it's much more than that- it's about seeing their physical skills and projecting how they will translate to the nfl level.
Posted: 04/19/2013 9:46 AM
Posted: 04/19/2013 10:03 AM
pudding wrote: Again, you're still equating production to INT, which is a false analogy. Why is it that you feel INT is the key indicator? It's not. As noted, Darrelle Revis, the consenus "best safety" in the NFL, did not have big INT numbers. He hasn't even really had big INT numbers in the pros (19 in about the equivalent of 5 pro seasons). CB are evaluated on a number of criteria. The better indicators, in fact, are usually number of targets vs. number of catches, with PD, INT, etc. weighed in. Their coverage abilities, their tackling abilities, etc.. are all examined, and most scouts felt Hayden was a top-5 CB candidate prior to this season. Dontari Poe, conversely, was universally regarded as someone who was not terribly productive (statistically or on tape). He sort of ended up fitting the classic 'Mike Mamula' or 'Vernon Gholston' model of workout warrior. That's not the case with Hayden. I, personally, wouldn't rate him #1, but I'm an amateur. From what I can see, I would definitely rate him in the top-5, and I personally like him more than Xavier rhodes, who, to me, doesn't look to have the best instincts. I would rate Millner #1, Trufant #2, Taylor #3, Hayden #4, and Rhodes #5 (perhaps tied with Jonathan Banks), and I really think Trufant, Taylor and Hayden are not separated by much. I rate Hayden lower primarily because I do think the injury is a concern at least in terms of immediate productivity.Now, in our system, maybe Banks or Rhodes would get more of a look, since the 49ers do like press-corners on the outside, but the 49ers do also need guys who can cover the slot and be versatile. Bottom line, if you're opinion is different than Mayock and Cosell, that's fine. But I think it's a little presumptuous to say "there's no way this guy is the #1." They have probably forgotten a lot more football than we'll ever know. I absolutely can see why they may make those evaluations. Hayden's good. If he hadn't suffered that injury, I absolutely could see him having been a lock for the 1st round.Note, too.. he had 4 INT in 9 games this year. That would have put him on pace for 6 INT if he played the full season. He did dominate WR, too, in his conference (see his game vs. Quinton Patton).
Posted: 04/19/2013 10:41 AM
NashvilleNiner wrote: Everything on this board is opinion, and in my opinion, there's no way this guy is the #1 CB in this draft. I'm not sure how it can be presumptuous to express an opinion. I'm not saying they're crazy for thinking that, or their opinions are not valid. It is their job & have been doing it longer, however, they can be wrong as well.
Posted: 04/19/2013 11:01 AM
Posted: 04/19/2013 11:07 AM
pudding wrote: I'm not saying you can't have that opinion, nor have I ever said that. I'm saying the way you've characterized the opinion, imo, is presumptuous. It would be one thing to say "I don't really see how Hayden rates over Millner, etc." but it's wholly another to say "there's no way he's the #1." You really didn't present it as an opinion, as much as you emphasized it as if it were a statement of fact disputing the 'experts.' So, yes.. I think anytime anyone says "there's no way" or uses any other statement of absolutism, it's a bit presumptuous.But, really, that's hardly the basis of my counter, anyway. You defended your opinion by citing 'INT' as the metric by which CB are measured, and I don't think you've really done a good job of explaining why that metric is important without the context of the other data and information available. If you look at the RPI of the teams Revis faced his Junior year at Pitt and compare it to Houston's RPI this past year, the gap is pretty miniscule. Why was Revis such a highly considered CB prospect? Was it his level of competition? Was it his INTs?No. It was the combination of his game tape, his coverage versatility, his confirmed athleticism, and his overall reputation. He was taken ahead of guys like Aaron Ross (who played at Texas in the Big 12) and Leon Hall (who played at Michigan in the Big 10), both conferences that rated higher than the Big East at that time and both who had more INT than Revis in the 2006 season. Again, I agree with you that, if I were to grade the CB, I wouldn't put Hayden at #1, but I don't agree that there's "no way" he should be #1. If not for his injury, I think he could be right there in the mix. There will always be a general bias against smaller conference players when compared to producers at bigger conference schools (and Millner played at the elite of the elite schools in Alabama), but I don't think Hayden's resume smacks of Dontari Poe at all, and I think you undersell his accomplishments by focusing on his INT total.
Posted: 04/19/2013 11:58 AM
Posted: 04/19/2013 12:22 PM
pudding wrote: Seriously, Nashville. You always seem to reduce arguments to semantics and fail to really address the points that you, yourself, brought up. My response has little to do with Mayock and Cosell's opinions. It has mostly to do with your focus on INT and conference strength to determine the quality of a player. I only touched on Mayock and Cosell because, ultimately, your original statement was rather strongly implying that they were wrong. You can't put out a statement like "there's no way" that a player is not worthy of their evaluation and then back off it by saying "but it's only my opinion" as the sole support for that statement. I'm not disagreeing with your thinking that, in your opinion, that Hayden is not #1. I, in fact, share that opinion. But that's not how you presented your stance. You did, in fact, challenge Mayock and Cosell, and then provided a rationale that, imo, is wanting.If you disagree, then explain how you draw your conclusion. Address the points.. not the strawmen that you've decided are easier targets.
Last edited 04/19/2013 12:22 PM by NashvilleNiner
Posted: 04/19/2013 12:25 PM
NashvilleNiner wrote: Hayden's a nice story, but I don't see how he is the #1 Corner....no way.2011, he had 2 INT's playing in Conference USA, and those came against North Texas & UAB.2012, he had 4 INT's, with 3 of those coming against the likes of UTEP(2) & Southern Methodist(1).He's got some talent and its a great story of perseverance...but he is not the #1 CB in this draft class.
Posted: 04/19/2013 12:28 PM