soda wrote:

Oline (9)

Davis
Boone
Iupati
Goodwin
Staley
Kilgore
Looney
Slowey
Pearson 

I think taking two lineman in the draft was a good idea.  


Dline (6) -

RJF
Smith
Sopo
McDonald
Williams
Dobbs

LB (8)-

Willis
Bowman
Smith
Brooks
Haralson
Grant
Flemming
Johnson or Gooden

DB (10)-

Rogers
Culliver
Brown
Whitner
Goldson
Robinson
Spillman
Jones
Brock
Cox 

ST (3) -

Jennings
Lee
Akers 

So, that's 54 players, by my math.  That means the niners will need to let go of one more guy to hit 53.  If James is ready to return kicks, that could be Ginn, or it could be the lesser of Moss and Jacobs.  Should be an interesting camp.

You forgot DE Will Takuafu who I would assume has a pretty solid spot on this roster considering they offered him a two year contract rather than one. Now I'm not saying guaranteed spot, but I think they have confidence in him. Unless you left him off on purpose in which you don't think he'll make the team. In which I think its more likely that we carry 7 DL and either a WR, DB, OLB or OL get cut or placed on practice squad. Takuafu was coming on pretty strong before the injury.

Minstrel wrote:
-Baalke is more concerned with picking up bigger chunks of yardage to "shorten the field" and reduce the number of third downs the team needs to convert to score than he is in acquiring guys who "pick up third downs." Big plays are also good ways to mitigate red zone issues, as scoring a touchdown from 30-40 yards out removes the need to play red zone offense. In my opinion, on both offense and defense, NFL teams are gravitating toward the "hold the line and wait for the big plays to win games" strategy. In baseball, the analogy would be the Earl Weaver "wait for the three-run home runs rather than trying to manufacture runs" philosophy. Especially when you consider the NFC Championship Game, when the 49ers' defense was trading stop after stop with the Giants' defense, how much do you think everyone involved with the 49ers wished for a big play to strike the decisive blow? Picking up AJ Jenkins and LaMichael James adds some of that dynamicism to the 49ers' offense.

This is what I was thinking too!  Adding the ability to score from long distance and adding more 20+ yard plays through out the year.  We all know that isn't the bread & butter of the offense but that presence is there.

I was also thinking although the entire defense will be back and asking them to duplicate 38+ turnovers & producing 44+ sacks again is asking a lot and would look to the offense to produce a handful more big plays through out the year.  

One more 1st down per game gives the team 48 more offensive snaps on the year.   If the Niners can at least improve either on 3rd down conversions or red zone efficiency, that would help the defense a lot!  Imo, I think Jacobs (Rejuvenated), Moss & Manningham will help improve the red zone efficiency.  Moss is a competitor despite his past attitude.

The Niners can be more aggressive defending the short end rather than deep in their own territory.  

Just ran into an interesting stat in regard to total sacks league wide:
1. Rams - 55
2. Arizona - 54
4. Seattle - 50
7. Niners - 44

I'll give them a B- for this draft.  I don't think I've given them more than D for a long time, so this is a fairly significant improvement.

AJ Jenkins and Lamichael James are A picks.  If Jenkins puts on some weight and adds some strength he is #1 receiver material.  Lamichael James is an excellent pick.  I didn't expect him to fall that low.  He adds a complete new dimension to the offense....a guy who can get around the corner or take a screen pass for 10 yards.

The rest of the picks were C- for me.  None really looked like high upside guys or guys you wondered how they fell so far.  I felt we really needed to upgrade the guard and center positions and didn't do so.  I'd have preferred one elite interior lineman prospect to all the guys we picked 3-7.

What I did like was that Harbaugh said they constructed their list of guys based largely on their interviews with them.  I think finding guys who fit in with your culture is actually more important than their measurables.

peter king with some nice things to say about baalke:



I love what the 49ers did late Friday night and Saturday.

To become a great general manager, you have to be willing to take some chances. You have to be willing, on draft day, to make decisions that can impact your team for the next few years, positively or negatively. You have to have the courage of your convictions that if you trade down and lose the player you wanted in the first place, you'll be OK with that; the risk was worth it.

That happened to San Francisco general manager Trent Baalke late Friday night, as the third round was winding down. The 49ers had the 29th pick in the round, the 92nd pick overall. They liked a guard from Wake Forest named Joe Looney. Baalke knew the Niners liked Looney better than a lot of teams. He knew he might be able to get Looney in the fourth round. Might. No guarantees. And if he lost him, Baalke felt fine going with the next man on the board. So when the Colts called looking for a late-third-round pick, Baalke traded 92 to the Colts for the 97th pick and Indy's fifth-round pick in 2013.

On Saturday, at the start of round four, Baalke still thought he could wait for Looney. He dealt 97 to Miami for the Dolphins' fourth-round pick, 103 overall, plus the 196th pick and a sixth-round pick in 2013. At 103, Looney was still there. San Francisco was picking 125th. Dare Baalke wait? Carolina came calling for the 103rd pick, and Baalke dealt that pick for the 180th in this draft and a third-round pick in 2013.

Tick. Tick. Tick. No guards went from 103 to 111, and Chicago was a candidate, but the Bears passed on the line, as did Arizona at 112, and now Baalke was pressing the outer limits, and he picked up the phone and made a deal with Detroit, trading up eight spots from 125 to 117 and throwing in the Miami pick acquired an hour earlier (196) in order to draft Looney ... 25 picks after the Niners were going to take him at 92.

So at the end of the dealing, the Niners got their man. And they got this:

• The 180th pick in 2012 -- Michigan State free safety Trenton Robinson.

• Carolina's third-round pick in 2013.

• Indianapolis' fifth-round pick in 2013.

• Miami's sixth-round pick in 2013.

Along with a seventh-round pick in 2013 from Cincinnati in the Taylor Mays trade, and likely compensatory picks for losing guard Adam Snyder and wide receiver Josh Morgan in free agency, San Francisco now sits with a projected 13 picks in the 2013 draft, the most of any team in the league.

"I'd be lying to suggest building up that many picks was our intention at the start of it,'' Baalke told me Saturday night. "But we were able to turn the pick over three times and get our guy, plus five picks [four, after the deal with Detroit]. So it worked out. We're not trying to win in the court of public opinion, or win in the media. We're trying to win games over the long haul and build a team for sustained success.''

That's precisely the kind of deal that helps a team win over the long haul.


Read more: sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012...l#ixzz1tXTxRniA

I'd say it was a B/B- draft. 
They got a WR, which I thought they still needed, although I thought they'd go get a big young WR to groom behind Moss for 3rd Down & Redzone situations.  But Jenkins may be that explosive player on the outside to threaten deep.  A bit of a duplicate of what they've got in Manningham & Moss, though, since they all do the same thing & none of them really block too much. (B)
They drafted another potential explosive player in LaMichael James, although I see it as another duplicate pick since we already have Kendall Hunter, who is almost the same player...Hunter is not quite as explosive as James, but more stoutly build.  I guess it creates competition... (B-)
Joe Looney was a solid pick.  Big, smart, tough, character guy who can come in and compete for that starting RG position.  Nice addition, especially in the 4th Round. (B+)
Darius Flemming is an OK pick.  I think there were a few better players on the board at the time.  He'll provide some needed depth at OLB though. (B-)
The Trenton Robinson pick I'm not a big fan of.  Mainly because guys like Markelle Martin & Antonio Allen were still on the board at that point, and I liked both of them a lot better.  He's a bit small at only 5'10, 195, but he does provide some needed depth at Safety. (C+)
I dont' know much at all about Slowey, but to add depth on the O-line in the 6th Round is never a bad thing. (B)
Cam Johnson was a nice pick, if he can keep his motor up & make the transition to OLB.   He was rated much higher by most.  OLB was not a major need, and we double-dipped in this draft, but I don't have a big problem with that. (B+)

Could Flemming move inside?  I saw someone say that he was good in coverage, although not terribly fast.  Wasn't sure if speed is more of an inside v. outside.  Just wondering if they could do like Grant and make him a back up there longer term, once he builds strength (we'll likely lose Grant next year).  I really like Robinson.  I know he' slight, but put him into a strength program.  He's super FAST and I think that will play dividends, especially when we go up against the likes of Detroit or Phili.  Cam has the potential but I guess the longer term issue is there is can you manage his medical issues; I know cickle cell (sp?) zaps your stamina, and just don't know enough to know if once diagnosed can you treat with medication.  If so, he could be the outside and Flemming moving inside, which gives us loads of flexibility. 

Grade really depends on what you wanted to accomplish.  From my vantage, as I've said, we had no clear holes other than what we perceived at OG.  I think they have a plan, and Looney is a longer term guy.  Not sure whether he's the guard or center, but it seems like we've got a plan for both.  We needed depth at OLB (got two), S (got one), WR (got one), Guard (got two) and I think that is what you want.  They rolled the dice a bit with more "upside" guys, and I think that is what you want to do when you're in that position, so long as you're not doing it on a flyer basis.  The 9ers have routinely been pretty good with their late round picks, and its really the first rounders that they've reached (like Balmer).  They are now getting better picks in the first rounds and just trying to make something with the later rounds so I think this draft, if looked at in that light, is very solid (B+).  Given what they did last year with Culliver and Miller in particular, and perhaps Kilgore, I think they deserve our trust in what they can get from Robinson and Looney. 

btw, would love someone's take on the comp picks.  I would have thought we don't get two, but only one, since while we got Morgan we signed Maningham.  We also lost Constanzo, but got Cartwright so that may be a wash?  I think Cox was released, so he shouldn't count against our picks, but don't know.

I definitely think that the draft does need to consider the stockpile of extra picks they got next year. That, imo, changes the complexion of this draft considerably. By maneuvering down from the 93 pick to eventually the 117 pick, they gained a boatload of additional picks that could be used to move up or, as they did this year, trade out to the following year (and gaining a round, potentially, in the process).

As for the picks themselves, as I noted in the draft thread, I could fully understand the thinking with Jenkins, and had no problem with the pick. I was a Fleener guy, and, while I get the whole "American League/Earl Weaver" vs. "National League/Whitey Herzog" analogy, I think it's important to recognize that it's an imperfect analogy and doesn't entirely capture the specific nature of what the 49ers struggled with last  year. Vernon Davis is not a tall TE (he's under 6'4). Neither is Delanie Walker. Crabtree's not a big WR, either. On many of the 3rd down and red zone plays in question, the issue was sometime merely having someone who could go up in a crowd and get the ball. Davis, for all his skill, is not really a jump ball TE. Crabtree isn't a jump ball receiver. Fleener, to me, was sort of that big target that could go up and get the ball in a crowd or provide a big target on 3rd downs. I felt that, by being that type of target, he could help open up or loosen coverage on Vernon or Crabtree or others. The top WR that the 49ers had a chance of drafting that could do that, imo, was Brian Quick.

That said, after looking at how the 49ers approached this, I get the Jenkins pick. Jenkins does have a skill-set that looks like it could develop into a full-featured WR. He may not be a 'jump ball' threat, per se, but if he can challenge a defense over the top or anywhere, it opens up targets elsewhere. Victor Cruz' emergence had that type of impact in NY, and, while I think Jenkins is a different type of receiver than Cruz (less jitterbug, but perhaps more fluid and built for a WC offense), but his impact could be similar. It seems like the focus is really to create a variety of options (i.e., multiple new formations and sets) that will cause defenses to have to accurately diagnose the play. Having WR that can run a slant route and get YAC will always help in that regard.

The same goes for LaMichael James. That pick surprised me, too, but I liked it because I thought James looked like one of those rare smaller backs that might actually do ok playing all 3 downs. He hits the hole between the tackles with purpose, although he obviously has edge speed. Even if he's a scat-back, primarily, there's no question he's got HR potential. I'm really curious to see the different formations the team might use with James, Hunter, etc.

My favorites on the 3rd day are Looney and Robinson. I saw Looney with very variant grades across the different scouting site, getting as high as a late 2nd round grade, and as low as a 7th. I think the lower grades almost universally were factoring in his lisfranc injury (and, in some cases, over-factoring it). If it's really an issue, I imagine they could stow him away on the practice squad (no team will give him a spot on their roster if he can't contribute), but, talent wise, I think they got a guy who definitely has starter potential. When I was sort of thinking out my uber mock (that I never had a chance to build), I had him pegged as one of the guards to look at in rounds 3-4 if they didn't get one in 1-2.

Regarding the speculation on Gino Gradkowski  (Bruce Gradkowski's brother) having been the guy they wanted.: I've yet to see any tangible reports that said they were actaully targeting him. The speculation came after Baltimore moved up to 97 and grabbed him. The 49ers traded down from 103 immediately after that, but that doesn't really confirm anything. Most of the 'multiple' places reporting this all cited the same source (a blog that was monitoring the 'war room' camera in the 49ers headquarters), if they cited anything, and, reading through that live blog, there seems to be a lot of idle speculation that's hard to really gauge as being insightful or simply noise. (Ditto on the Flemming pick, btw - people saw Baalke hit a table after the Packers made their pick, which led to speculation that they wanted Terrell Manning. According to another source though, he hit the table a few times in ways that wouldn't have indicated frustration or anything, so it's hard to really judge without seeing the footage if that was a table-rap of frustration or just a habit of his).

The picks of Slowey and Flemming didn't intrigue me as much, but I have almost no frame of reference on Slowey, so.. I'm not going to pretend I have an opinion on him other than what I've read online. Fleming had a nice pro-day, and definitely has the pedigree and resume (i.e., 36 starts for the Irish), but his production was underwhelming to me. Then again, that's if you look at him as an OLB. I thought he looked more like a potential ILB in a 3-4, or a SLB in a 4-3, so maybe he's Larry Grant insurance?

As for Cam Johnson, it sounds like he's going to be a specialty player, and his condition is one that has to be monitored. Ryan Clark, the safety for the Steelers, had to have his spleen and, later, gallbladder removed due to complications that he experienced from playing in Denver (Clark also has the sickle cell trait). There are some players that have actually died from complications due to sickle cell, so it's not a disease to be taken lightly. Then again, there have been others, like Santonio Holmes, who have not shown major complications from it. I've watched some of Johnson's highlight reel, and the guy looks like a 2nd round type of talent in spurts. If the 49ers can afford to keep a guy on the roster who may just be a passing down pass rusher or a ST player (and maybe never more than that), I think it's a solid pickup. There's a little risk involved, of course, but you can't complain about that in the 7th round. I do wish him the best.

Overall, when you factor in the additional picks, I'd have to give this draft solid marks. As with any draft, the true evaluation begins a few years after the fact, when you see what type of impact the players have had as well as the development the players have made.

I think the 2009 draft was considerably better than the 2008 draft. The 2008 draft produced Josh Morgan and Larry Grant (who, to be fair, actually is more of a FA pickup than a draft pickup, since he spent the first couple years of his career with the Rams). Only Grant remains on the team.

2009 produced Crabtree and RJF, of those still on the roster, and also turned up Alex Boone as a Rookie/FA. I'd give the 2009 more of a straight C grade, and the 2008 the D+.

Just adding..

Baalke has confirmed that Looney was a guy they were looking at to pick at #92. This would seem to dismiss the speculation that Gradkowski was their target. This corroborates King's write-up of the situation.

The highlight of the draft might be how the 49ers parlayed that 92nd pick into a 3rd, 5th and 6th next year.

pudding wrote: I definitely think that the draft does need to consider the stockpile of extra picks they got next year. That, imo, changes the complexion of this draft considerably. By maneuvering down from the 93 pick to eventually the 117 pick, they gained a boatload of additional picks that could be used to move up or, as they did this year, trade out to the following year (and gaining a round, potentially, in the process).

I thought Mike Sando, of ESPN's NFC West blog, boiled down the exchange pretty well thusly:


Dropping from 92nd to 117th and from 125th to 180th was the net price San Francisco paid for these moves. Those drops represented a combined 98.6-point drop on the standard trade-value chart, which equates to roughly the 100th overall choice in the draft.

Put another way, it's as though the 49ers had said, "Hey, we'll trade you an early fourth-round pick this year for third-, fifth- and sixth-rounders next year."

We had an Al Davis Draft, Speed and Playmakers. Actually I will not question this draft until I see how they pan out, I think we should get more flack if we took AJ at #7. happy with the Picks

I don't know that his durability is as big an issue as some scouts have made it sound. If you're using Scout Inc.'s rating, it's definitely a little skewed. They gave him a below average because he was hurt at the Senior Bowl. Scout Inc. tends to downgrade players more if they are 'currently' injured, as Looney was. 'Current' injuries do tend to drop a player's draft positioning, and Scout, Inc. likes to try and weigh that into their grading more than other services do.

Prior to his foot injury at the Senior Bowl, he missed two games due to an ankle injury. That's not exactly screaming "injury prone," although there are other aspects of his build/technique that may be more reason for concern (i.e., he's described as a little top heavy and a waist-bender, which can make him posture-prone to strains, etc.). Generally speaking, any player coming off an injury has to be monitored, but I don't know that his history suggests he's a guy who is constantly battling injury.

Peter Konz, for example, has injured his ankles three times, including a re-aggravation during the Rose Bowl this year that prevented him from working out at the combine. That would appear to be more of a potentially chronic issue (i.e., repetitive injury) to be wary of than Looney's.

At least the 49ers have some depth at the position, though. The battle for RG should be an interesting camp competition to watch.

rumor has it that brandon jacobs might get some reps there too, given the current logjam at RB.

lol- i saw a pic of him in a story yesterday and he looked like a beast! i know he's an easy 260 but he looked like a DE or massive OLB, not a RB. wow.

CBS just did a "who is at risk".  Interesting, they said they thought Jacobs was the odd man out since Dixon can play full back.  I don't see that, since we signed Jacobs knowing that and drafting LMJ doesn't really change.  They also said LMJ doesn't play special teams, but that isn't consistent with his return duties (although not a ton) in college.  They did say that Kyle keeps getting glowing reviews from management, notwithstanding his debacle in the playoffs.  Interestingly, they said Flemming might move inside and Travis was at risk. 

I still think Williams makes the squad, given he's a good 3rd/4th WR and will make a nice pair with Jenkins (we still need a No. 1 down the road, but we'll have much more punch).  I think Looney makes the squad, but the other guy and Cam are PS material.  I definitely could see Flemming moving inside as a protection for when Grant leaves.  I know in College guys move inside all the time, but don't know if Flemming could back up OLB for this year and then move, which would be ideal.  Still think ultimately we need back ups at both those positions, and just don't know if Cam ever gets strong enough to play that role. 

To me, Cartwright, Travis and Ginn are the guys at risk.  They have "only" ST value, and this year's draft has a bunch of guys that are ST plus (same is also true of Cox).

i think gooden and haralson are at risk too. depending how the young rookie LBs do.

i'm betting williams make it even though it's way too early to know how it'll play out. he's young and talented.

I don't think Haralson is at risk unless he utterly bombs in the off-season. With Aldon Smith set to start with Ahmad Brooks, Haralson is the team's only proven reserve outside linebacker who can generate pressure on the quarterback. They need depth in addition to Haralson, not instead of him.