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Update: Alex Boone returning (reworked deal)

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Posted: 08/11/2014 10:30 AM

Update: Alex Boone returning (reworked deal) 


Jason Cole is reporting that the Bucs and Giants may be leading candidates for Boone's services. A third rounder seems to be the going rate. Choke also states as many as 20 teams may be interested. Personally I would like to seem Boone retained as his ability to pay either guard or tackle makes him valuable.

Last edited 08/31/2014 9:43 AM by pudding

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Posted: 08/11/2014 11:14 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors Post Rating (1 vote)


for a 3rd rounder i ain't trading him. that's probably reasonable though but i'm just saying- unless we determine there's no way we can sign him and he won't play, i would pass on that deal.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 08/11/2014 11:16 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


not sure when/if this situation has an end in sight. both sides are dug in. maybe boone will cave when he starts losing game checks. but i do understand his desire to be paid more. i just disagree with this method of 'negotiation'. maybe he already tried the other route but the 49er seem to be completely unwilling to bend on their 'we won't negotiate while you're holding out' stance.

it's understandable for them too. they don't want to set a precedent. maybe MC hammer can convince him to report and help broker a deal. winktongue

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

Last edited 08/11/2014 11:16 AM by higherwarrior

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Posted: 08/11/2014 11:38 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


I don't really understand Boone's end game. Is it really to hold out until the deadline for when any more missed games would cost him a year of service towards free agency? Because holding out the whole year would get him nothing, not even closer to free agency. Perhaps he's trying to force a trade.

I suspect (but certainly don't know for sure) that the divide is that Boone wants to be paid like a tackle, because he can play tackle and the 49ers are putting him at guard not because he can't hack it there but because they have two tackles already. And the 49ers understandably don't want to pay tackle money to a guard, both because they're not getting tackle value from him (though his versatility is worth something) and because they wouldn't want to set that precedent for future guards, maybe including Iupati.

Just a thought. If that really is the divide, a trade is probably going to be the result. If 20 teams are interested, I'm hoping they can sell his ability to play tackle and get a second-rounder from a team that really needs a tackle.
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Posted: 08/11/2014 11:42 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


it's clear we could really use him though. that's part of the problem. we like looney a lot and maybe as he rounds into football form, martin could fill the role. we'll see- i agree though. i think boone is risking a lot. he'd argue that playing while being underpaid is a risk too i guess.

i think when the threat of missing game checks comes, we'll start seeing this situation move towards a resolution- either an extension, an acceptance of his current deal, or possibly a trade. what a shame he couldn't have just taken a different approach. niners have proven themselves to be fair and willing to extend their valuable young players.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

Last edited 08/11/2014 11:42 AM by higherwarrior

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Posted: 08/11/2014 1:31 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


If the Baltimore game was any indication (and I only just watched it last night), the 49ers could definitely use him on the Offensive Line. Looney and Kilgore were tested, as expected, and they had their issues. Martin, as the starting right tackle in Davis' place, also looked over-matched at times. Practice is one thing; games are another. I know Looney has drawn praise through camp so far, but it was clear he wasn't quite ready for prime time. He could work out those issues through the rest of pre-season, but if the O-Line struggles again in the next game, Boone's position becomes stronger. 

Just to note:

- Joe Looney had a -0.7 overall rating on PFF this past week playing 25 snaps (roughly half of the 49ers offensive snaps).
- Jonathan Martin had a -3.4 overall rating this past week playing 25 snaps 

If Boone were just a Guard, that would be one thing. As the primary backup at tackle, too, his value goes up. That could also be the impasse in whatever he could be demanding. The 49ers may be willing to negotiate, but until we know what numbers his agent has put on the table, it's hard to really know if he is being unreasonable. In terms of his value on the field, though, there's no question that he's missed.
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Posted: 08/11/2014 3:43 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 



pudding wrote: If the Baltimore game was any indication (and I only just watched it last night), the 49ers could definitely use him on the Offensive Line. Looney and Kilgore were tested, as expected, and they had their issues. Martin, as the starting right tackle in Davis' place, also looked over-matched at times. Practice is one thing; games are another. I know Looney has drawn praise through camp so far, but it was clear he wasn't quite ready for prime time. He could work out those issues through the rest of pre-season, but if the O-Line struggles again in the next game, Boone's position becomes stronger. 

Just to note:

- Joe Looney had a -0.7 overall rating on PFF this past week playing 25 snaps (roughly half of the 49ers offensive snaps).
- Jonathan Martin had a -3.4 overall rating this past week playing 25 snaps 

If Boone were just a Guard, that would be one thing. As the primary backup at tackle, too, his value goes up. That could also be the impasse in whatever he could be demanding. The 49ers may be willing to negotiate, but until we know what numbers his agent has put on the table, it's hard to really know if he is being unreasonable. In terms of his value on the field, though, there's no question that he's missed.
I was more or less about to post the same thing.  Boone's leverage went up a bit after that preseason game.
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Posted: 08/12/2014 4:44 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


one could argue that each of our starting o-lineman last couple of years were among the very best in the nfl. guess now we'll just be like a normal team where you DON'T have a top flight player at every spot. i'd prefer to have him and his loss is big. but maybe we can collectively make do without boone. goodness knows we can't afford to pay each of our starters to be among the best compensated...

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 08/12/2014 10:13 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


I am cautiously optimistic that we will be just fine.  I loved Boone and really wanted him to succeed.  Just a great story.  But I am not enamored with his behavior.  I get "this is business" but the way he went about it was counter to the culture of the 9ers, one that has suited him well.  It would be another thing if he gave them a chance and were penny pinchers; in fact, I would have been ok if he showed up to camp, they didn't respond and he walked out.  But he knows the rule is "no hold outs" and he should have given the 9ers the opportunity to do right rather than basically making it him versus the Franchise's policies; he . put us in a position where we can't settle since it would just be a problem down the road.

As far as the OL is concerned, Kilgore seems to be doing so well, no one even wonders if Martin will pan out.  Looney isn't quite the rookie since he's been with the team and handled the Lambs ok.  Yes, young, but not completely green.  I think both those guys figure it out by the first game.  We then have Martin, Martin, Seymour, and Snyderfighting it out for the 3 back ups (I'm wondering if they keep Seymour over Jonathan Martin).  One less OT, than we'd like but we just got lucky with Boone all these years. Long term, we might be much more healthy, from a cap basis and longer term on the OL (where, at a minimum, Martin and Thomas will be quality backups).
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Posted: 08/12/2014 10:30 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


FWIW - per PFF, Iupati was awful on Thursday night. After his drop off in overall play last year, if there's a guy I'd rather let go off the starting unit, it may be him. "Sacrilege!" (some may cry), but his reputation preceeds him, and, barring the unlikely scenario that he could be had for less money than Boone, the more prudent route (financially, anyway) may be to keep Boone. 

Now PFF is not the bible, and, obviously, the 49ers coaching staff and front office's opinion on Iupati (versus Boone) carries more weight than our own or metrics that are largely based on observation rather than truly quantifiable stats, but if Iupati has a couple more poor outings after the Baltimore game, this sentiment may grow stronger. 

Boone is more versatile than Iupati, and, while not particularly outstanding at any one aspect of line-blocking, he's pretty good in every area (i.e., he doesn't have any glaring holes). Pretty impressive that he transformed himself into a reliable guard, especially given his height and dimensions (prototypical tackle build).

Now, again.. if Boone's demands are just way out there (like David Baas leaving for the Giants 'out there'), then I can understand why the 49ers are being cautious. They do have a lot of prospective offensive line talent that could fill the void, and perhaps they end up not keeping either Boone or Iupati.
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Posted: 08/12/2014 12:36 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


The 49ers have some decent possibilities for next year, like Brandon Thomas and moving Martin to guard. Plus they could draft another guy for further competition. It's this year I'm concerned about--if Looney doesn't pan out, it'll hurt to have a below average performer on the line (assuming Iupati gets back to at least solid play). That said, the 49ers did come within one muffed punt (the one in regulation) of reaching the Super Bowl in 2011 despite a liability at guard in Adam Snyder (and an even worse one in Chilo Rachal before Snyder replaced him). It would make things tougher, but it wouldn't necessarily be a fatal blow.
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Posted: 08/12/2014 1:01 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


Worth noting, though, that Seattle, St. Louis, and even Arizona have vastly improved their defensive fronts since 2011. With a lesser O-Line, it may be hard to duplicate the 5-1 division record they had in 2011.
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Posted: 08/12/2014 8:01 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


good point and i would agree overall. but we've also vastly improved our receiving corps and overall depth. at the end of the day we'll see how the teams as a whole shape up.

no doubt- each game is going to be a dogfight and we'll have to have a full team effort to win each time out. our o-line, for example, will have their hands full. we'll have to be more creative and diversified in how we attack these teams.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 08/13/2014 10:11 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


Point is, if our O-Line has a hole in it, it may be harder to 'diversify' the offense if we don't have the time to set up our plays. The margin of error has shrunk, and, while we may have added new pieces to our WR corps to diversify our play calling, it still starts up front. Kaepernick is not yet a proven pocket passer. We're all hopeful he takes that next step in his development, especially with the added emphasis on his available targets, but those precious extra half seconds in protection could be the difference between him finding his rhythm and comfort level and him taking some sacks, getting happy feet, and not making it through his progressions. 

I'm hoping things coalesce in the next few games, but, after game 1 of the pre-season, Boone's absence was noticed.
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Posted: 08/13/2014 10:18 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 


agreed.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 08/13/2014 3:30 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 



pudding wrote: If the Baltimore game was any indication (and I only just watched it last night), the 49ers could definitely use him on the Offensive Line. Looney and Kilgore were tested, as expected, and they had their issues. Martin, as the starting right tackle in Davis' place, also looked over-matched at times. Practice is one thing; games are another. I know Looney has drawn praise through camp so far, but it was clear he wasn't quite ready for prime time. He could work out those issues through the rest of pre-season, but if the O-Line struggles again in the next game, Boone's position becomes stronger. 

Just to note:

- Joe Looney had a -0.7 overall rating on PFF this past week playing 25 snaps (roughly half of the 49ers offensive snaps).
- Jonathan Martin had a -3.4 overall rating this past week playing 25 snaps 

If Boone were just a Guard, that would be one thing. As the primary backup at tackle, too, his value goes up. That could also be the impasse in whatever he could be demanding. The 49ers may be willing to negotiate, but until we know what numbers his agent has put on the table, it's hard to really know if he is being unreasonable. In terms of his value on the field, though, there's no question that he's missed.

Boone's rating for ALL OF LAST YEAR was -.8 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ex-boone-worth

I think folks in here are seriously over-vauluing Boone. He is good but Looney is more than servicable. 

Boone has ZERO leverage. He is under contract for two more seasons and we are not trading him for less than we value him. 

Let him continue the holdout, lose a year of vested service towards his pension and see his bank account shrink by 30K a day all the while seeing his backup gain much needed reps. It's his loss, not ours. 


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Posted: 08/13/2014 3:57 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 



pudding wrote: Worth noting, though, that Seattle, St. Louis, and even Arizona have vastly improved their defensive fronts since 2011. With a lesser O-Line, it may be hard to duplicate the 5-1 division record they had in 2011.

Eh, Seattle's D-line rotation doesn't look as fierce as it did last year IMO, with departures of Chris Clemons, Red Bryant, & Cint McDonald.  They still have some nice ends in Bennett & Avril, but aside from Mebane, they're DT's don't look all that scary...

St. Louis has probably the best pair of D-Ends in the league, but Brockers & the rookie Donald aren't exactly world beaters (yet).

Arizona has Dockett & Campbell as their Ends in the 3-4 (and Dan Williams who's coming into his own at NT), so if Looney's at RG he might get a litte more exposed against them.

Last edited 08/13/2014 4:06 PM by NashvilleNiner

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Posted: 08/13/2014 4:24 PM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors 



Kaepernick7 wrote:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...ex-boone-worth

I think folks in here are seriously over-vauluing Boone. He is good but Looney is more than servicable. 


Not overvaluing him (FWIW - Iupati's rating was just +.07 last year). Boone and Iupati both were hurt by their pass blocking numbers (a reflection of the poor passing attack, in general), and both went from positive to negative in the final regular season game against Arizona. The prior season, Boone had a score of +24.6 (3rd best in the NFL). 

Looney might be serviceable, but we don't know that yet. The point made was that Looney (and Kilgore, and Martin) all had their issues in the first pre-season game. If Boone is going to gain any leverage, it's going to be based on how these guys play over the next couple games in the pre-season. If they don't improve, then his leverage does improve a little.

As I said, though, I'm only providing information around this. Not making a final judgment. You're the one jumping to conclusions. I stated that, ultimately, it will come down to the staff and front office to make that decision. If they are comfortable going with Looney, so be it. I'll trust their judgement. Simply pointing out that Boone's position gained a little based on their first game performance. I don't think you can argue that it didn't.

Hopefully, Looney et all will improve. Not for Boone's sake, but for the sake of the team, overall. Having them be good gives the team options. If they don't improve, then they may need to re-examine the Boone situation or hope that the drop off can be covered by other aspects of their offense.
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Posted: 08/17/2014 2:40 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors Post Rating (1 vote)


Again, I haven't read the entire thread and have missed a lot here but we should start flying rumors the he will be traded to Jaguars or the Browns!  Maybe Oakland as well.  Thinking of potentially missing the playoffs could shake him.

Someone offers a 3rd, I'd take it!  He started as a undrafted FA.  Good return.  Can't pay everyone premium dollars.
No play is too big for Colin Kaepernick!!!
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Posted: 08/17/2014 6:21 AM

Re: Alex Boone trade rumors Post Rating (1 vote)


The longer he holds out it is becoming more obvious how valuable he is to the Niners.  I would just refuse to trade him for a #3 and wait him out.  He needs the 49ers every bit as much as they need him.  We had an opportunity to pick up a decent replacement in Eric Winston from the Cards, but he just signed with Seattle.  

That's a clue as to why we have to keep Brandon Lloyd.  Pete Carroll is licking his chops, especially after losing Tate and Rice.

49er GOLD
since 1946.

"It's KAP, not Kaep"-Colin Kaepernick, Twitter

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