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Boone to hold out....?

Posted: 05/27/2014 5:53 PM

Boone to hold out....? 


don't have the link right now, but boone is not at OTAs reportedly because he is unhappy with his contract. will he end up holding out? anybody's guess at this point. it is early in the offseason...

but this kind of pisses me off. sure, it's a business and he's entitled to take this stance if he feels he's underpaid. but part of me thinks- really boone? we gave you the security of a longterm deal for nice money when you were largely unproven over the longterm. we paid you well and your deal now has 2 years left at a pretty good pricetag. when you hit the market again sure you will get more. but you signed on for $2 million when many thought it was a risky deal and we could have been overpaying you!

we are hard up against the cap and are trying to find space to lock up CK. sure, you can try and do the same. but come on. where are we getting money from?

boone has been awesome and is an excellent guard. I love his story of being undrafted and working his way onto the roster and then his transition to guard and becoming a starter and even a top caliber guard. but how about some good faith? we gave you a chance when nobody else did. we gave you an extension when it was risky. play out your last 2 years or at least show up to OTAs and have this be an ongoing conversation rather than a time to try and force the team's hand. ohlord

watch out too boone, as there are others in the mix who can replace you in time.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 05/27/2014 6:00 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 05/27/2014 6:06 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


I posted the same thing a minute or so after you. More details below:

.......................

Several reporters have picked up on this story today, as Alex Boone reportedly expressed a desire to rework his deal and, subsequently, did not show up today for the first day of OTA's. Per Matt Barrows:


Boone went undrafted in 2009. He signed a four-year extension in 2011, and he has two more years on the deal.***UPDATE*** Boone was not on hand for today’s OTA session, the first of the spring for the 49ers.

The 49ers have an unusual situation on the offensive line in that their top player there, left tackle Joe Staley, signed a long extension early in his career and is making only a modest salary – $2.7 million in base pay – this season. Therefore it's difficult to pay other worthy linemen like Boone and fellow starting guard Mike Iupati, more than the left tackle. (The team already hiked up right tackle Anthony Davis' salary in the offseason).



The OTA is not mandatory and several veterans often skip it in favor of working out at home (Frank Gore is a good example). It should also be noted that there had been chatter earlier this year about the 49ers possibly redoing Joe Staley's deal. While that doesn't help Boone out directly, it could at least indicate that they may be looking at trying to restructure deals to make them more reflective of their players value.

Obviously, they can't do this ad nauseum, because they will soon run out of cap space. This is where depth become critical, as, at some point, it's impossible to keep a full roster of players in their prime if they all exceed expectations in performance. Brandon Thomas' recovery might have just become that much more important.

Interesting to see how this plays out. I like Boone and I like his story (i.e., going from an undrafted, overweight prospect with some character concerns at Ohio State to a well-liked, hard-working lineman who transitioned not just well, but exceptionally from tackle to guard), and I'd like to keep him around. If his desire for a raise is within reason (I do think he's underpaid), I say go for it. It might seal Iupati's fate, if it wasn't already sealed, but I think some continuity at the guard position going into next year would be important. If he's asking for too much, it might mean that Thomas and Kilgore/Looney/Martin might have to fill in two spots on the line next year.

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Posted: 05/28/2014 9:45 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


I tend to think what has happened (or will happen) is that we're not so convinced we need Crabtree or Iupati.  Most of the early "rankings" I saw on FA signings (if IIRC) were Kap, then Crabtree, then Smith and then  Iupati.  I think the latter is toast, since we're just not going to pay him what he wants, and we now have Kilgore, Looney and Martin.  I think Crabtree probably will walk, because I think the 9ers have realized we can win without him so long as we have a competent group of WRs (of which we would have 4 even if he walks, with the ability to draft and keep the pipeline going). What I can see happening is we sign Kap and then have money to keep Boone (along with a restructure of Staley).  We probably even have enough money to resign Smith at that point, since we will have DL contracts coming off the books starting in 2016 (when Smith's contract is up), and we've got DL guys in the wings.  I like Boone, and also think Staley is underpaid, so I'd be in favor of "spreading" the wealth to keep those 2 happy, especially if Iupate is gone.  Not the best way to handle it tho
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Posted: 05/28/2014 9:59 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


is boone underpaid? sure. but he also got the security of a 4 year deal back when he signed it as a largely unproven player. if he wants to renegotiate he should handle it like staley- quietly and behind the scenes. now, boone hasn't gone TO on us or anything. but the fact this leaked and he isn't there says enough. STALEY has more to gripe about than him!

show up and play alex- we've proven that we take care of our own. we took a chance on you and then took care of you back when nobody else did. you still have 2 years left and we've got the power in this situation. this sort of action is not wise IMO.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 05/28/2014 10:31 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



higherwarrior wrote: show up and play alex- we've proven that we take care of our own.

Actually, the 49ers have proven that they're willing to play hardball with anyone they have leverage with. tongue Did Mario Manningham or Jonathan Goodwin think the 49ers take care of their own when they were leveraged into taking pay cuts last year?

It's business. I don't fault the 49ers for pressuring players to renegotiate deals when they have the leverage and I don't fault players for trying to do the same thing in return.
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Posted: 05/28/2014 10:45 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


..and I definitely don't think he's gone TO on the 49ers. The report is that he's unhappy with his contract. Not a word from Boone directly, though. The correlation was made when he did not show up for OTAs (again.. several veterans do not show up, so not showing up is not entirely unusual). 

Worth noting that his agents also list Darrell Revis and Vincent Jackson as clients. Both of these players have staged holdouts in the past. Could be just coincidence (and, to be clear, Boone is not holding out.. yet), but a side note that may be worth remembering. 

I think Boone has every right to use his leverage, if he can. Not sure how much leverage he really has, but if he's not being a distraction (and one report does not a distraction make), I've got no problem with him looking to get paid. He could have been a little more discreet about it, but.. as I implied above.. maybe this was planned by his agents more than by him just to get the team's attention.  

With guys like Iupati and Crabtree potentially not being "taken care" of (and Whitner before them, and Goldson before him), it's entirely possible that this new wrinkle will only lead to Boone being replaced in the future, as well. Then again, the team might feel.. "ok, Boone.. let's see what kind of reasonable offer we can make without killing our cap." Now might be the better time to renegotiate than later, too. If he has a second strong year as a guard, his value could start creeping up toward the level that would make him too expensive to keep around.
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Posted: 05/28/2014 10:46 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


To be fair neither of those are our "own" guys.  They're free agents that we brought in.  Alex Boone is someone that was drafted by this franchise.  They took a risk on him and he returned that extension of faith with very solid play.  

I see this from both sides of the coin, as the players only have so much leverage and giving that leverage away isn't something you should ever do in a negotiation.  That said, the 49ers did stick their neck out for him, and to be fair, Joe Staley only makes about $2.7M in comparison to Boone's projected mark of $2M .... so I guess its a question of who blinks first.  Do the 49ers really want to spend more money on a guard when they're likely trying to prepare for one leaving this off season?
Minstrel wrote:  Did Mario Manningham or Jonathan Goodwin think the 49ers take care of their own when they were leveraged into taking pay cuts last year?
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Posted: 05/28/2014 11:25 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



plannb23 wrote:and to be fair, Joe Staley only makes about $2.7M in comparison to Boone's projected mark of $2M .... so I guess its a question of who blinks first.  Do the 49ers really want to spend more money on a guard when they're likely trying to prepare for one leaving this off season?
Staley's salary for this year is only $3.4 million ($2.7 million base + $700K in roster and workout bonuses), but that's because he got $16 million in roster bonuses in 2009 and 2010, even before his extension kicked in (i.e., the equivalent of a signing bonus, but, from a cap perspective, all against those years, instead of pro-rated over the life of the contract). It 's a little disingenuous for Barrows and others to suggest Staley is only making $2.7 million this year, because what matters is the APY of his contract that he's been paid. Staley's actually APY of his extension was $7.3 million, and he's actually made over $8 million a year over the first three years of the extension. Now, he got a good chunk of that money early in his rookie deal, so one could argue that over the past 6 years, he's gotten more like $4.8 million per year, but that's still considerably higher than Boone's deal, which was for 4 years $6.4 million (or $1.6 million per year). 

To put it more clearly, here's what these two have earned to date:

Joe Staley - $35.7 million earned (through 7 years)
Rookie contract: 5 yr, $10.7 million (all earned)
First Extension: 6 yr, $43.2 million ($25 million earned)

Alex Boone - $3.8 million earned (through 5 years)
Practice Squad contract: 1 yr, $85K (all earned)
First contract (minimum): 2 yr, $800K (all earned)
First extension: 4 yr, $6.4 million ($2.9 million earned)

Staley is still a bargain for a top-tier LT (he's currently the 13th best paid in terms of APY), which is why the team is planning to renegotiate. Boone may be underpaid, as well, even though, the way his contract was structured, he's making $2.6 million this year.
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Posted: 05/28/2014 12:31 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



plannb23 wrote: To be fair neither of those are our "own" guys.  They're free agents that we brought in.  Alex Boone is someone that was drafted by this franchise. 

Technically, Boone wasn't drafted, but that's not important. tongue I don't believe that the reason the 49ers put the screws to Manningham and Goodwin was because they were outside free agents. I think they put the screws to those two players because they had the ability to do so and it helped their bottom line. My recollection was that they played hard ball with Gore, too, a few years back and it's hard to define Gore as anything but the highest example of "the 49ers' own."

I think that Boone should act in good faith (that is, not cause trouble by agitating among his teammates or try to negotiate through the media) but attempting to put pressure on the team to get more money seems fair to me, assuming that's what he's doing/planning.
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Posted: 05/28/2014 12:41 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


I never get upset with a player looking for more money. IF he had a career ending injury the 49ers would cut him in a heartbeat. He deserves more money based on his play.
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Posted: 05/28/2014 4:02 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


But I'm going to mention it anyway ....... tongue
Minstrel wrote: Technically, Boone wasn't drafted, but that's not important. tongue 
I agree that it makes sense to say that, but I don't remember the last time that they've done something like that to one of their "homegrown" players.  Both those players were signed to deals that were higher than the players they've had in house so they could basically maneuver their numbers more.  They also attempted to do the same thing with Carlos Rogers who eventually proved he had the leverage.
Minstrel wrote: I don't believe that the reason the 49ers put the screws to Manningham and Goodwin was because they were outside free agents. I think they put the screws to those two players because they had the ability to do so and it helped their bottom line. 
I don't remember them playing hardball with him, and if they wanted to they could have done that now with his high price tag this year.  They didn't.  
Minstrel wrote: My recollection was that they played hard ball with Gore, too, a few years back and it's hard to define Gore as anything but the highest example of "the 49ers' own."
I agree with this though.  We don't even now for sure that's what he's doing yet.
Minstrel wrote: I think that Boone should act in good faith (that is, not cause trouble by agitating among his teammates or try to negotiate through the media) but attempting to put pressure on the team to get more money seems fair to me, assuming that's what he's doing/planning.

Last edited 05/28/2014 4:04 PM by plannb23

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Posted: 05/28/2014 4:21 PM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



plannb23 wrote: I don't remember them playing hardball with him, and if they wanted to they could have done that now with his high price tag this year.  They didn't.  

I don't mean that they pushed him to restructure, I just remember some conflict the last time his contract was running out and he wanted an extension. There was some question of whether he'd hold out and that the team might fine him if he did.
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Posted: 05/29/2014 2:08 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


Hmmm...wondering if the Niners seen this coming before the draft?  Perhaps a moot point but it is a good thing that they drafted 2 OL players on top off trading for Jonathan Martin.

Looks like it will come down to Iupati or Boone!  Possibility of keeping both?

Boone has been more consistent of the two.  Boone may be the cheaper one to extend as well.  Iupati is the best run blocker on the OL.  He may also the more costlier.

Marcus Martin looks destined to play the LG position this season or next!  I admit, I didn't think too much of Martin.  Perhaps my constant praise for Kilgore kind of blinded me of any center in the draft.  After reading up on Martin, seems like a steal in the 3rd round.  He seems to be described as a Gabe Jackson (Short & stout) with athleticism.  Could be more physical as one person mentioned.  Great at walling of defenders and sealing the end.  Solid at reaching the second level.

No one is talking about Looney.  Ryan Seymour got more press than Looney!  Not sure how Looney fits into the OL picture? Looney, M. Martin, J. Martin, Snyder & Seymour make up the competition for OL spots.

Can't wait to see how this plays out.  My money is on Boone getting an extension!
No play is too big for Colin Kaepernick!!!
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Posted: 05/29/2014 7:44 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


Doesn't that prove my point?  That they didn't play hardball with him?
Minstrel wrote: I don't mean that they pushed him to restructure, I just remember some conflict the last time his contract was running out and he wanted an extension. There was some question of whether he'd hold out and that the team might fine him if he did.
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Posted: 05/29/2014 7:59 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



plannb23 wrote: Doesn't that prove my point?  That they didn't play hardball with him?

I don't understand what you mean. Not giving him the extension he wanted, leading him to hold out and then fining him for the days he held out is "taking care of their own?" It sounds like hardball to me.

I'm not saying the 49ers should have given Gore what he wanted, I'm just saying that they were perfectly willing to take a hard line with him.
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Posted: 05/29/2014 9:58 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


The 49ers have never waivered on their approach to contract negotiations, but to my knowledge they have never gone to one of their own and said you need to take a paycut like they did with Goodwin and Manningham, who you used as your reference for the 49ers taking that hard stance.

So my point was taking a hardline on an extension and forcing a paycut are not the same.  They have always tried to do the right thing for their players they've cultivated where possible as long as it didn't jeopardize the franchise.  They've let players walk that they knew that they couldn't resign (Dashon Goldson) and kept those that they felt were integral.
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Posted: 05/29/2014 10:10 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 



plannb23 wrote: So my point was taking a hardline on an extension and forcing a paycut are not the same.  They have always tried to do the right thing for their players they've cultivated where possible as long as it didn't jeopardize the franchise.

I guess we just disagree that there's a big difference. I think the team places a value on every player on the team, drafted or not, and will hold a pretty hard line. My main point was not any specific tactic, but that the 49ers run the team like a business (which I think they should) and players should approach things as business too. I don't expect loyalty out of either side and I'm fine with the team applying their leverage when they can or for players to try and do the same.
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Posted: 05/29/2014 10:30 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


It sounds like you two are arguing semantics at this point. I don't think Minstrel was limiting his examples to players who were forced or asked to take a pay cut. His examples did happen to be two players who happened to be asked to take cuts, however, so it's understandable where the confusion may have initiated. 

I think both are valid points. I do think the 49ers have shown that they are very consistent with their approach to their players and their cap management, as a whole. I do think they have avoided paying over market value, but they have also been pretty good about taking care of their home grown players. 

I can take some guesses as to why that has been, but, given that the new group has only been around for 3 years, it may be premature to really determine since 'their own' (the players they, themselves, have drafted as a group) have not fully matured into their full contracts as of yet. I will say that the next couple years could really test their overall philosophy, since they will begin to have players that will command much bigger salaries, and when you have guys with big salaries, the maneuverability will be compromised a bit, and you may then start to see the type of restructuring of deals (paycuts) with players that may have tenured with the 49ers from the start. 

Worth noting.. Alex Smith took a paycut in 2009. It wasn't the same regime, obviously, but there were some faces that were around back then (most notably Paraag Marathe, who has always been involved in contract structuring and negotiations).
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Posted: 07/14/2014 9:49 AM

Re: Boone to hold out....? 


Things are going to be interesting here that's for sure.  According to Albert Breer @NFL.Com if an under-contract player doesn't report by Aug. 5, he loses an accrued season.


Unlike fellow minicamp holdout, star tight end Vernon Davis, Boone appears bent on staying away until he gets a new deal. Davis recently said it wouldn't be the “end of the world” if his holdout doesn't result in a new deal. Both Boone and Davis have two more seasons remaining on their contracts. 

PER ESPN


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