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Niners release Marlon Moore

Posted: 10/30/2013 2:51 PM

Niners release Marlon Moore 


Most likely to make room for Manningham:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49er...wr-marlon-moore
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Posted: 10/30/2013 6:27 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


Why was MM released and not Kyle, What has "Fair Catch" Kyle done during his stint with the Niner's? NOTHING!!!
CDC84 wrote: Most likely to make room for Manningham:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49er...wr-marlon-moore

LoneStar Niner
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Posted: 10/30/2013 6:35 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


A better question is why hasn't LaMichael James been able to supplant Williams as the starter?

guysix wrote: Why was MM released and not Kyle, What has "Fair Catch" Kyle done during his stint with the Niner's? NOTHING!!!
CDC84 wrote: Most likely to make room for Manningham:

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49er...wr-marlon-moore
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Posted: 10/30/2013 6:44 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 



guysix wrote: What has "Fair Catch" Kyle done during his stint with the Niner's?

He's caught some passes. Marlon Moore has not caught "passes," he's caught "pass"--i.e. singular. Exactly one all season.

I get that some 49ers fans detest Kyle Williams, but it's blinding you guys to the fact that yes, there are in fact worse football players than Williams. Marlon Moore is one of them or, at least, there's no evidence that Moore is as good or better than Williams.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Williams lasts the entire season on the active roster. Even when Crabtree and Manningham are back (and Crabtree may not be playing in games til December), there's no wide receiver on the roster who's proven to be even as good as Williams to take the fourth wide receiver spot.

Last edited 10/30/2013 6:44 PM by Minstrel

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Posted: 10/30/2013 7:32 PM

RE: Niners release Marlon Moore 


thank you minstrel. some much needed level-headed analysis rather than emotional rants.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 10/30/2013 7:39 PM

RE: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I still am of the mindset that Kyle Williams is very capable of being a good WR. He has some speed and has gotten open deep in his time with the 49ers, but we have always missed him. Not saying it happens every game, but can recall times we overthrew him on the deep ball when he was wide open. Just don't want him returning any kicks. He does fair catch a lot of balls which doesn't help the offense much and negates the big play capability of the position. What is funny is if he is the one returning the punt I prefer him to fair catch it because he makes me so damn nervous carrying it. Seems like everyone knocks it out of his hands with a little poke. Just need someone else doing it.
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Posted: 10/30/2013 7:58 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I think Kyle Williams is capable of being a useful receiver. My belief in his potential has waned, but I think he looks particularly bad right now because he's stretched as a starting wide receiver. He's capable of getting open (and, as pudding has noted before, he's been open at times when Kap has missed seeing him), he's just not capable of creating that separation consistently, which a good starting receiver needs to be able to do.

However, as a third or fourth receiver, operating with other wide receivers who draw significant defensive attention (more than just Boldin), he's proven capable in the past of finding open areas and making himself available. Flash forward to December, with both Manningham and Crabtree back, I can see spread formations with Boldin, Manningham, Crabtree and Williams with Williams running free across the middle because of all the attention Boldin, Manningham and Crabtree are drawing. Williams has always struck me as pretty good running after the catch. He also has speed to get deep and possibly behind the defense if guys like Boldin, Crabtree and Manningham are pulling defenders into the short and intermediate zones.

I have more faith in Williams as a third or fourth receiver than Moore or Baldwin. That's what it comes down to for me. Those are the only options for this season (outside of pulling Chuck Jacobs off the practice squad, which I don't see happening this year unless another injury epidemic occurs).

Last edited 10/30/2013 8:00 PM by Minstrel

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Posted: 10/30/2013 8:45 PM

RE: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I went back, scanned our games and for the most part, except for about 5 punts, Williams smart play was to call fair catch.

In all of those he had a defender or two bearing down on him or behind him. Knowing Harbaugh's philosophy on playing it safe and not turning the ball over, he really had no other choice. Sure, he could have been exciting and taken a chance but I'm sure the coaching staff has hammered home the other choice.

Of the other 5 that I thought he should have not called fair catch, I think 2 were deep in our end and protecting a lead so why take a chance to give away the game. The other 3, I don't know and would not have called fair catch.


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Posted: 10/31/2013 2:44 AM

RE: Niners release Marlon Moore 


ok so one basic question on Kyle Williams.... when is is his contract up and what kinda money is he on?
I would like him to stay as I really felt for him after the giants game and how he has handled himself since but I think he needs to prove something on the field to be kept on personally
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Posted: 10/31/2013 6:45 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


Baldwin, Patton, and Crabtree are the only WRs who are not free agents at the end of this season. Note that this site does not list Crabtree's contract so they may be missing other players too:

49ers contracts
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Posted: 10/31/2013 7:17 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I thought Baldwin's contract was only one year left?
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Posted: 10/31/2013 7:34 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


Yes he has one year left:

7/29/2011: Signed a four-year, $7.552 million contract. The deal included a $3.992 million signing bonus. 2013: $1,061,510 (+ $130,000 workout bonus), 2014: $1,274,765, 2015: Free Agent

Here is Crabtree's, looks like he can void it and be a free agent after this season?:

10/7/2009: Signed a six-year, $32 million contract. The deal contains $17 million guaranteed. Another $8 million is available through incentives. The contract can void to five years based on "unlikely to be earned" Pro Bowl and playing-time triggers. Per one clause in the deal, $15 million of Crabtree's available escalators is contingent on him participating in at least 90% of annual offseason workouts. 2013: $4.5 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus), 2014: $3.5 million (Voidable Year), 2015: Free Agent

Here are the highest paid WRs:

Highest WR Salaries

Last edited 10/31/2013 7:42 AM by hummbabybear

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Posted: 10/31/2013 8:21 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 



hummbabybear wrote: Here is Crabtree's, looks like he can void it and be a free agent after this season?:

10/7/2009: Signed a six-year, $32 million contract. The deal contains $17 million guaranteed. Another $8 million is available through incentives. The contract can void to five years based on "unlikely to be earned" Pro Bowl and playing-time triggers. Per one clause in the deal, $15 million of Crabtree's available escalators is contingent on him participating in at least 90% of annual offseason workouts. 2013: $4.5 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus), 2014: $3.5 million (Voidable Year), 2015: Free Agent

No, he could have voided it based on some Pro Bowl criteria (I think he had to make the Pro Bowl two out of three years or something in addition to not missing games) but obviously he hasn't made the Pro Bowl even once. So he won't get the voidable year and will be under contract for 2014.

Kyle Williams is a free agent after this season. I could see the 49ers not making a lot of effort to keep him but, on the other hand, they are going to need wide receivers next season and only Crabtree, Patton and Baldwin are currently guaranteed to be back. I could see them re-signing Williams cheaply for depth. They'll still obviously need to add another good receiver to go with Crabtree, whether through free agency, trade or draft.
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Posted: 10/31/2013 8:31 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


ok, I should have read the whole thing tongue
Minstrel wrote:
hummbabybear wrote: Here is Crabtree's, looks like he can void it and be a free agent after this season?:

10/7/2009: Signed a six-year, $32 million contract. The deal contains $17 million guaranteed. Another $8 million is available through incentives. The contract can void to five years based on "unlikely to be earned" Pro Bowl and playing-time triggers. Per one clause in the deal, $15 million of Crabtree's available escalators is contingent on him participating in at least 90% of annual offseason workouts. 2013: $4.5 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus), 2014: $3.5 million (Voidable Year), 2015: Free Agent

No, he could have voided it based on some Pro Bowl criteria (I think he had to make the Pro Bowl two out of three years or something in addition to not missing games) but obviously he hasn't made the Pro Bowl even once. So he won't get the voidable year and will be under contract for 2014.

Kyle Williams is a free agent after this season. I could see the 49ers not making a lot of effort to keep him but, on the other hand, they are going to need wide receivers next season and only Crabtree, Patton and Baldwin are currently guaranteed to be back. I could see them re-signing Williams cheaply for depth. They'll still obviously need to add another good receiver to go with Crabtree, whether through free agency, trade or draft.
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Posted: 10/31/2013 12:09 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 



Minstrel wrote: Kyle Williams is a free agent after this season. I could see the 49ers not making a lot of effort to keep him but, on the other hand, they are going to need wide receivers next season and only Crabtree, Patton and Baldwin are currently guaranteed to be back. I could see them re-signing Williams cheaply for depth. They'll still obviously need to add another good receiver to go with Crabtree, whether through free agency, trade or draft.
I don't see Williams resigning. He's not giving us anything when he had a chance to shine. With Crabtree and Manningham out, he had the #2 role handed to him on a silver platter. Sure Kaep has missed him on some plays but that happens to every receiver. Kyle has 108 yards half way through the season with no TD's and he has been less than impressive as a return man. Please don't invest future dollars in him. We need the money to go towards guys like Kaep, Smith, Crabtree, and Brown. I would rather see money go towards Boldin and Manningham before Williams. Guys like Williams can be replaced through the draft with cheaper options and imo that's the smart move. And just to be clear I don't hold a grudge against him. Sure I wasn't happy with him after the Giants game but I got over it and I'm just looking at what he currently brings to the table.
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Posted: 10/31/2013 12:26 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 



questfor6 wrote:
Please don't invest future dollars in him. We need the money to go towards guys like Kaep, Smith, Crabtree, and Brown. I would rather see money go towards Boldin and Manningham before Williams. Guys like Williams can be replaced through the draft with cheaper options and imo that's the smart move.

I'd need to see how Williams functions as the fourth receiver before I agreed that that's the smart move. As I said earlier, I think Williams looks worse because he's stretched as a starting receiver. He's up against starting cornerbacks and he can't win those battles consistently. If the 49ers brought him back next year, it would be as a reserve, not as a starter. If Williams is productive when sharing the field with Crabtree, Boldin and Manningham, then he might be a cost-effective way to fill the fourth receiver spot.

He's not going to be expensive, he's done nothing that will make him a commodity on the free agent market. I don't really see it as dollars that are being taken away from Kap, Smith, Crabtree, et al. You have to fill the fourth receiver position, so there's going to be some dollars allocated there regardless. Yes, a non-first round draft pick would cost less, but would most likely be worse than Williams (as rookie receivers, except elite ones, tend to struggle). If Williams is as cheap as I'd expect, he may still be a good fit as a fourth receiver.

That said, I'm in no way married to him as a future 49er. If Baalke and Harbaugh cut ties, I won't consider that a big deal. I can see them finding a better and more cost-effective receiver to replace Williams. I just don't think Williams is, or should be, already finished as a 49er in the minds of Baalke and Harbaugh.

Last edited 10/31/2013 12:26 PM by Minstrel

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Posted: 10/31/2013 12:59 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


Williams is highly expendable, IMO.  I believe Patton will be able to replace him as a WR and as return man.  Hopefully, we can sign either Boldin or Manningham or another Veteran, and then draft an Evans or Matthews to groom as a future #1/#2 WR.  I'd be ok with Crab, MM, Patton, and Matthews as our top 4 Wideouts next year...(even better if we could bring Boldin back.)
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Posted: 10/31/2013 1:47 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I wouldn't discount the possibility that Boldin is brought back for another season. If Crabtree returns, and Boldin/Crabtree really work well together, the 49ers could certainly look at trying to have that tandem together for a full season. I think Patton will certainly be given a chance to earn more plays on the field, too. Add in a high probability that the 49ers will take another WR in the draft next year (perhaps their most defined need going into next off-season), and the group starts to take shape. 

Even though Baldwin is under contract for next year, I don't now that his salary is fully guaranteed. His original deal was for $7.55 million, with $6.15 million guaranteed. He'll have had $6.15 million paid out by the end of this year, with his 2014 base slated at $1.27, and his 'workout bonus' at $130K. I think, based on how I'm reading it, he could be waived at no cost to the bottom line. I think this may depend on whether the 49ers feel they have seen enough and whether they feel his price tag fits their budget next year.

Williams could certainly fit back into the equation; it could come down to whether he can get a better offer elsewhere, and/or if he wants to come in and compete for a roster spot with the 49ers again. 

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Posted: 10/31/2013 3:07 PM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I don't dislike Williams.  His tendency to call for a fair catch, I assume, comes from the direction of the coaching staff.  Whether that direction is from a change in philosophy or an indication of their confidence in Williams I dont know.  

Williams will most likely not be with the team next year.  He has not been able to step up in the absence of crabtree and manningham or in his limited attempts at returning kicks.  (he ranks near the bottom for returners).  I get that the team asked Williams to be something he is not, in a starting WR. At the same time if his ceiling is to be a mediocre return man and a WR that can only be successful as the 3rd or 4th WR, the team will look elsewhere to fill his roster spot.  The trend we have seen the last few years is, the team will keep you if you can contribute well rotating as one of the 22, show upside, and/or you really excel at special teams.  Williams is not horrible on offense or special teams, but he hasnt been very good this year either.
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Posted: 11/01/2013 7:53 AM

Re: Niners release Marlon Moore 


I like the idea of resigning Boldin, but he's expensive (and we have to contend with a bunch of looming FAs).  I do think Boldin/Crabtree, with Baldwin and Patton is a very nice 4 some and I don't know why you give up on Baldwin yet.  He was a late season addition and while he's had time a bit hard to pick up when you're doing game prep.  We have a ton of picks next year, though, balanced against the need to address the DBs (basically need to reload at CB, and who knows who we sign from the team, and we probably need to address safety).  Happily, the only real need/hole is at DB and we can go a long way with resigning some of our guys.

It will be interesting to see who if anyone steps up at WR this season.
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