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great victory but...

  • mattmn40
  • 6th Round Draft Pick
  • Rating: 2.9/5 this site
  • 142 posts this site

Posted: 12/16/2012 11:00 PM

great victory but... 


i was sitting here watching the game with with my patriots friend just rubbing it in at 31-3.... she was so pissed off i kept saying to her dont worry we'll go into 3 runs and out mode and rush 3 and try and cover D.  you'll be back in it in no time.  (might be my nolan/singaltery bias) but that seems like what we always do.  so they got back in it and thank god for crabtree which only solidified my crabtree jersey wearing. 

I can only think if if we had a kicker making the kicks he should make. (I live in milwaukee and all the talk her is Mason Crosby sucks) if we have a kicker making kicks he should make we are 12-2.

final thought is that i dont like it that we went prevent, run the clock out starting the second half.  as we saw teams can come back from that!  Just run you offensive game plan until there are 5 minutes left (if you are up by muliple scores)

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Posted: 12/17/2012 7:07 AM

Re: great victory but... 


We were man to man on defense for 3 and half quarters and then for some reason we went prevent zone and that was the beginning of nearly the end. The offense also just sat on the ball. In games like these, against teams like the Pats, you NEVER just sit on a lead.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 8:20 AM

Re: great victory but... 



eastside49er wrote: We were man to man on defense for 3 and half quarters and then for some reason we went prevent zone and that was the beginning of nearly the end. The offense also just sat on the ball. In games like these, against teams like the Pats, you NEVER just sit on a lead.
This goes back to last year's cowboy game. We got a little lead and sat on it until we lost.

In this league you pour it on until the clock ends. It's not coincidence that the pats ran up five 42+ point blowouts this season. They weren't running up the score, they were ensuring a win.

When you have a team on the ropes you keep pounding it away.

This isn't boxing, it's MMA, just because they're down doesn't mean you go to a corner.


Suffering and rejoicing 49er fan since '69!
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Posted: 12/17/2012 9:15 AM

RE: great victory but... 


i don't feel we sat on the lead at all. i think we had the same approach but our execution of the playcalls was very poor.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 12/17/2012 11:00 AM

RE: great victory but... 


They definitely changed the defensive scheme..

Offensively we just didn't execute. I don't think the game planned changed there..
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Posted: 12/17/2012 2:05 PM

RE: great victory but... 



higherwarrior wrote: i don't feel we sat on the lead at all. i think we had the same approach but our execution of the playcalls was very poor.
Yes he absolutely went conservative and was going to sit on the lead with predominately the run until he couldn't any longer and had CK throw the ball that fortunately Crabtree made a great play on. If you noticed, after thay took that 7 point lead and stopped NE on their next drive, he went conservative again placing the burden on Lee to pin them down and the defense to seal the game. Which luckily they did. Remember, despite the team's amazing turnaround and because of it, him being hyped up too high and too fast, he is far from Jeff Fisher or Bill Belicheck. It is only natural for him at this stage of his NFL coaching carrer to manage the games heavily relying on the strengths of the team: defense, running game and the punter's ability to masterfully changes the field of possession. Where he is very knowledgable is the QB position and recognition of QB abilities and play. So add a huge factor of him to not fully trusting either of his QBs to not screw up the lead and the game: Alex because of his limitation, CK because of his inexperience.
He manages the game based on several factors, predominantely in game development of which 3 are the key (especially when he is ahead).
1. How well his defense is dominating the game and for how long.
2. How well his predominantely running game can sustein the drives until the other team adjusts and shuts it down.
3. What is the lead margin vs. the "quality" of the opposing offenses vs. the time left on the clock. In other words how successful the opposing offense is in moving the ball agains his defense. The longer the opposing offense stays impotent, the more he is hyped to use his formula.
Like in the Rams game, he thought that the 10-13 point lead in the 4th qtr would be enough because the Rams couldn't score at all. And he probabably was right if it wasn't for the boneheaded play that gave the Rams defensive TD. Obviously he wouldn't think the 10 point lead with a qtr to go vs NE would be enough. But the 28 point lead given the conditions and how well defense was containing NE for 2 and a 1/2 qtrs, he must have been thinking that was enough even for Brady. I wish it wasn't so either, but I think he is going to stick to this formula where the large role is minimazing the chance of his QB beating themselves (especially when it bit him in the ass once already). And as long as the team is winning. Until the circumstances dictate he has no choice but to open up darring passing offense in the middle or later stages of the game (like Min and NYG games). Or he fully trusts the percentage of his QB to pull this off from beginning to an end is much more greater than not. I did notice with CK Harbaugh is at least attempting to open up offense early in the game to see how it works and maybe grab that early lead. Sometimes it may work beautifully based on sheer surprise element and catch the other defense completely off guard (like the Bears game). But the more CK plays, the more there is scouting tape on him and I doubt you can use such surprise game in and game out. However I think the trust and full creativity (depending on how trully creative the OC is) will come not earlier than next year, unless like I have said they absolutely have to in a particular game.

Last edited 12/17/2012 2:40 PM by tal57

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Posted: 12/17/2012 2:56 PM

Re: great victory but... 


I do think the play calling on both sides became conservative. Ted Robinson noted that they went from a man cover to zone cover in the 2nd half, and that's when Brady started to find his rhythm. It's not a 'prevent' defense, per se, but it was an adjustment that didn't need to be made. Not surprisingly, they went back to man cover on the final couple drives.

On offense, they called a lot more of the pistol formation in the second half, and they had a couple series where they went three and out where they ran all three plays (look at the play by play). Granted, they were trying to run clock, but getting a first down eats clock, too.

It is a bit concerning how they didn't adjust earlier once the Patriots started getting back into it. The defensive line was definitely getting winded towards the middle of the 4th quarter, which was giving Brady extra time in the pocket to make his reads, and that may have contributed to the 'lack of execution.'

Still, credit has to be given to the Patriots. What they did from the end of the 3rd through the 4th quarter is what they have done all year. It wasn't simply coaching decisions that caused them to give up the lead. Yes, there were some questionable decisions, but there were missed assignments here and there that gave the Patriots the little breathing room they needed. LaMichael James either missed a blocking assignment or failed to turn around on the screen on a play that led to a sack. Kaepernick missed a wide open dig route run by Moss and held the ball trying for a deeper pass that never materialized.

It doesn't take a lot to give the Patriots a chance to get back into a game. The 49er coaching staff isn't perfect, but neither is any teams coaching staff. Overall, I think they've had good game plans. Sometimes they can be conservative, but they haven't gone 22-6-1 in the regular season over the past two years on luck.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 3:50 PM

Re: great victory but... 



pudding wrote: I do think the play calling on both sides became conservative. Ted Robinson noted that they went from a man cover to zone cover in the 2nd half, and that's when Brady started to find his rhythm. It's not a 'prevent' defense, per se, but it was an adjustment that didn't need to be made. Not surprisingly, they went back to man cover on the final couple drives.

On offense, they called a lot more of the pistol formation in the second half, and they had a couple series where they went three and out where they ran all three plays (look at the play by play). Granted, they were trying to run clock, but getting a first down eats clock, too.

It is a bit concerning how they didn't adjust earlier once the Patriots started getting back into it. The defensive line was definitely getting winded towards the middle of the 4th quarter, which was giving Brady extra time in the pocket to make his reads, and that may have contributed to the 'lack of execution.'

Still, credit has to be given to the Patriots. What they did from the end of the 3rd through the 4th quarter is what they have done all year. It wasn't simply coaching decisions that caused them to give up the lead. Yes, there were some questionable decisions, but there were missed assignments here and there that gave the Patriots the little breathing room they needed. LaMichael James either missed a blocking assignment or failed to turn around on the screen on a play that led to a sack. Kaepernick missed a wide open dig route run by Moss and held the ball trying for a deeper pass that never materialized.

It doesn't take a lot to give the Patriots a chance to get back into a game. The 49er coaching staff isn't perfect, but neither is any teams coaching staff. Overall, I think they've had good game plans. Sometimes they can be conservative, but they haven't gone 22-6-1 in the regular season over the past two years on luck.
no they haven't, because luck now plays for indianapolis pudding- try and keep up! tongue  devil

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 12/17/2012 4:09 PM

RE: great victory but... 


Note:
In my previous post I was only touching on Harbaugh's concervative offensive formula concept. The defensive mentality, given how the game was rolling along, 28 point lead with the time left, on the road, against very quality, scarry opponent with super duper QB at the helm. Some kind of "soft" or "prevent" defense the Niners had started employing in the middle of the 3rd qtr had doubly contributed to the whole effect. Although I can fully understand the coaching rationale behind it. NE offense was practically out of synch for two and a half qtrs. Brady threw 2 INTs, there were 2 RB fumbles, bunch of inaccurate and dropped balls. The weather and field conditions were not only not getting any better, but probably getting worse. And the Niners have lost one of its two mainstays in pass disruption via pass rush. The natural thnking mentality in such situation is the only remote possibility for NE to get back into the game was quick, deep strikes for TDs. Given NE preceding strugles on offense, the weather conditions the amount of time left, not allowing deep balls, and no turnovers on the Niners part giving NE short fields, it didn't look like possible for NE to come back. Even if Brady found some rhythm and went on a few long drives for a couple of scores. Who would have thought any team (including the entire AFC Pro-Bowl team) could have moved almost entire length of the field for 4 consecutive drives on the Niners D? So they employed the strategy of preventing one remote possibility for NE to come back, gave up a couple of long bombs in the process, including one fanthom interference call (absolute no-no given the entire defensive shift to prevent precisely that), and that was that.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 5:02 PM

Re: great victory but... 



pudding wrote: I do think the play calling on both sides became conservative. Ted Robinson noted that they went from a man cover to zone cover in the 2nd half, and that's when Brady started to find his rhythm. It's not a 'prevent' defense, per se, but it was an adjustment that didn't need to be made. Not surprisingly, they went back to man cover on the final couple drives.

On offense, they called a lot more of the pistol formation in the second half, and they had a couple series where they went three and out where they ran all three plays (look at the play by play). Granted, they were trying to run clock, but getting a first down eats clock, too.

It is a bit concerning how they didn't adjust earlier once the Patriots started getting back into it. The defensive line was definitely getting winded towards the middle of the 4th quarter, which was giving Brady extra time in the pocket to make his reads, and that may have contributed to the 'lack of execution.'

Still, credit has to be given to the Patriots. What they did from the end of the 3rd through the 4th quarter is what they have done all year. It wasn't simply coaching decisions that caused them to give up the lead. Yes, there were some questionable decisions, but there were missed assignments here and there that gave the Patriots the little breathing room they needed. LaMichael James either missed a blocking assignment or failed to turn around on the screen on a play that led to a sack. Kaepernick missed a wide open dig route run by Moss and held the ball trying for a deeper pass that never materialized.

It doesn't take a lot to give the Patriots a chance to get back into a game. The 49er coaching staff isn't perfect, but neither is any teams coaching staff. Overall, I think they've had good game plans. Sometimes they can be conservative, but they haven't gone 22-6-1 in the regular season over the past two years on luck.
Yes, I am very impressed what NE did and giving them full credit, despite the Niners mistakes you had accounted for. I guarantee you, somewhere in the back of Fangio's mind was this NE offensive juggernaut, what they are capable of doing to anyone, especially on the heels of what they had done to Houston (defensive stallworth in their own right). All the circumstances I have described above coming together prior to NE comeback may have led him to believe that the lead the Niners had was safe if he played it safe. I give NE full credit for not only the desire to grab the opportunity but executing it as well. Why did the Niners coaching staff did not adjust the defense back until NE tied the score? I think they were completely shellshocked themselves from what had transpired and how fast it had happened.
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Posted: 12/17/2012 5:09 PM

Re: great victory but... 



higherwarrior wrote:
pudding wrote: but they haven't gone 22-6-1 in the regular season over the past two years on luck.
no they haven't, because luck now plays for indianapolis pudding- try and keep up! tongue  devil
Priceless, higher
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