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OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become history

Posted: 12/06/2012 2:22 PM

OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become history 


banghead

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...ffs-report-says


i know they're trying to make the game safer. but i'm sorry, football is football. this is ridiculous and i hate the idea. flushed

they're floating the idea again now (we heard about it last year) but now ESPN's chris mortenson says he believes it's only a matter of time before KOs are history and says it's 100% likely to happen. ohlord

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 12/06/2012 2:59 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


I'm not so opposed to the idea, necessarily. If you read this piece, the idea Schiano proposed is that instead of a kickoff, they would have a 4th and 15 at the 30 yard line (basically meaning the team would be on the field at the 30, like the old kick-off spot). They'd have the choice of punting, fake punting, or simply lining up for a play.

Punts result in far less injury than kickoffs because players do not have as much opportunity to gain a head of steam for the collision.

Technically, it's still football. There's still a play involved, and there's still potential for a return, but it's just not a kick return like they have now. It may seem like a significant change to the rules, but if the end results are not all that different but the game is a little safer, I'm ok with it. There's still plenty of potential excitement that can come on the new proposed 'kickoff/punt off' and perhaps even a little more strategy.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 3:19 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


ohlord I think its a terrible idea to make the proposed change to the game. 4th and 15 instead of an onside kick to retain possession. Really? What happens when someone gets hurt on the punt following a score? Are they going to be eliminated as well?

Football is a mans sport, injuries are going to happen. Players know the risks they face and they are well compensated. Nobody is forced to play football. Kickoffs are an exciting part of the game, more so before they got moved up, but still exciting.

Last season there were 266 known concussions in the NFL, 20 came on kickoffs. That's just 7.5% of the concussions on kickoffs, a relatively small number. I don't want to see players get hurt but the only way to avoid it is to play flag football, and sometimes players get hurt with no contact. Call me a traditionalist but please don't take away the kickoffs.

source

My two favorite teams are the 49ers and whoever is playing Seattle.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 3:36 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


When you consider the percentage of plays that Kickoffs make up in an overall game (roughly 5%), the 7.5% concussion rate is fairly high (50% above the normal play rate). It has dramatically decreased with the recent rule change to push the kickoffs back up to the 35 yard line, but it remains pretty high. Also, the most severe grade concussions have mostly come on kickoff returns, and given that it's typically the lowest paid players that are on the special teams units for a team, there is a disproportionate amount of injury happening to players at the end of the bench.

Again, the arguments about "they know what they signed up for" are hollow arguments. Yes, football is a violent sport. I'm not for changing the game so that hits, etc. are not a part of the game, but this isn't changing how the punts are played. There's still hitting, tackling, everything. It's just a different play. A punt instead of a kick.

If 4th and 15 is too challenging a distance, then it could be 4th and 10, perhaps. That's a nuance, but it's a strategic one, not one that is taking the play away from the players.

As I said, I'm not FOR removing kick-offs, but I'm not against the notion, as long as it is done in a way that keeps the play on the field the same. If they literally got rid of kickoffs all together, and just placed the ball on the 25 yard line for the other team to start, that would be like flag football or worse. This is not the proposal, however.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 4:31 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


I think this is an interesting idea and one that appeals to me to some extent. I'd miss the traditional kick-off, which now "feels right" to me as the way to start halves and possessions after scores (it's become so ingrained, it's part of the wider vocabulary, "kicking off" events and such)...but if I consider beyond tradition, there are two things that I like:

1. The safety issue. I really didn't realize how dangerous kick-offs apparently are. I like football being a rough, tough game and "pain" isn't necessarily a big concern to me, since they are compensated for it and most profess to love the game, pain and all (so it's not really even the equivalent of coal-mining, where people are enduring something they largely hate). But serious, life-altering damage is beyond my tolerance for what their pay makes up for.

2. Punt returns are least as entertaining to watch as kick returns, in some ways moreso. Punt returning is a more difficult skill than kick returns and often requires a greater degree of vision and elusiveness, whereas kick-offs are, to my understanding, more about pre-planned directions to commit (not that changes of direction don't happen at all, obviously). And, without doubt, first-team offenses running a play are far, far more entertaining, to me, to watch than onsides kicks. Onsides kicks are fine, but the excitement is more in the result than the process. A first team offense running a play designed to pick up a chunk of yards against a first team defense is a lot more exciting to watch unfold (IMO).

So I would not be horrified at all to see this change happen.
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Posted: 12/06/2012 5:18 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


4th and 15 from the 30 would dramatically change the end of the games more than the rest. No more worrying about trying to recover an onside kick.  It's already yours, just have to get a first down on your first play.  Would definitely make things interesting.
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Posted: 12/09/2012 4:19 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 



---------------------------------------------
--- higherwarrior wrote:

banghead

espn.go.com/nfl/story/_...ffs-report-says


i know they're trying to make the game safer. but i'm sorry, football is football. this is ridiculous and i hate the idea. flushed

they're floating the idea again now (we heard about it last year) but now ESPN's chris mortenson says he believes it's only a matter of time before KOs are history and says it's 100% likely to happen. ohlord

---------------------------------------------
What exactly does 100% likely even mean? It's somewhere between 51% and 99% likely?
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Posted: 12/09/2012 4:46 PM

RE: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become histo 


lol- those were his words on nfl live so i used them here. they asked how likely it was that KOs would be eliminated and he said "100% likely."

to me i hate eliminating one of the most exciting plays in the game. if you hold a gun to my head though and make me choose between just spotting the ball at the 20 after a score or schiano's bizarre idea, i'd definitely just go with spotting the ball. the other idea while interesting and creative, changes the way the game is played too radically IMO. and not in a way i'd care to see.

"You are either getting better or you are getting worse; you never stay the same."

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Posted: 12/10/2012 9:13 AM

RE: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become histo 




---------------------------------------------
--- higherwarrior wrote:

lol- those were his words on nfl live so i used them here. they asked how likely it was that KOs would be eliminated and he said "100% likely."

to me i hate eliminating one of the most exciting plays in the game. if you hold a gun to my head though and make me choose between just spotting the ball at the 20 after a score or schiano's bizarre idea, i'd definitely just go with spotting the ball. the other idea while interesting and creative, changes the way the game is played too radically IMO. and not in a way i'd care to see.

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I can kind of see what they're thinking. An obvious replacement to kickoffs would be punting, but they need something to replace the onside kick. Rather than go with the goofy 4th and 15 situation, why not just keep an onside kick as an option?
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Posted: 12/10/2012 10:21 AM

RE: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become histo 


I think placing the ball on the 20 would be a really bad option, as it nearly eliminates late game comebacks from the equation entirely. A team down two scores would basically have no way to get back in a game if there was not enough time or TO left to get another possession.

As for the excitement of a kickoff return, I think a punt return is equally as exciting. To date in 2012, there have been 14 punt returns for TD (on 906 attempts), to 11 Kick returns for TD (on 1115 attempts). Last year, there were 20 punt returns for TD (on 1174 attempts) to 9 Kick returns for TD (on 1375 attempts).  Seems like there's more 'excitement' per punt return than per kick return, and that's before factoring in blocked punts, etc.tongue

Honestly, I think the main issue with the notion is simply that it's been ingrained in us as part of the game. For that reason, I too am not in favor of just getting rid of the kickoff, but I'm not so pedantic that I am not open to changes that can potentially make the game safer, especially for those special teamers who are often only making the league minimum in salary. I do think the 4th and 15 scenario might be a little too extreme, but I'd have to take a look at some stats to see how often 3rd downs attempts of over 15 yards result in a first down to get a sense of how 'fair' it is to the offenses attempting an 'onside' conversion. If the odds there are similar to converting an onside kick, then I'd really see no problem with it, as the options would be the same, just the method of arriving at them would be a little different.
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Posted: 12/10/2012 2:58 PM

Re: OT: Mort reports it's 100% likely Kickoffs will become 


I actually like the 4th and 15 idea.  Way more interesting than an onside kick.  And I really don't care whether teams punt or kickoff after a score.  Sometimes fans tend to oppose change for the sake of opposing change.  Once we got used to it, I think people would find it both safer and more entertaining.
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