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Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enough?

Posted: 8/28/2014 10:58 AM

Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enough? 


He has taken five years to figure out an offensive line combination.  In fairness to the topic he didn't actually pick this line combination.  The Steelers had to experience such a rash of injuries that he was forced to play this combination.  They probably still have troubles here but it looks way better than two years ago

He loved the idea of drafting J. Jones as a pass rushing ROLB.....This is arguably our most vital role on the D....That guy has a better chance of hurting himself falling down untouched than getting a consistent pass rush

The CB's we have drafted during his tenure have been remarkably awful

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard

When did we stop believing we needed a true NT to run a 3-4??

We now love the idea of getting 5-7" 175 lb RB's.....is this really now a staple of our thought process?

How many years did we ride red zone redman and Jonathan Dwyer as potential feature backs (because Rashard hump my QB on national television) stunk so bad and obviously didn't even like football....All this before picking up the doobie brothers?  Does he have any idea what mind set and character a winning professional athlete needs to succeed?

I watched Derek Moye and Justin Brown at WR at PSU and believe me....the fact that we kind of like those guys says all that needs to be said about his understanding of WR play....They are not....NOT.... NFL players
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  • Matt6999
  • Daniel Snyder
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Posted: 8/28/2014 11:05 AM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 


As I said in another thread, welcome to the Tomlin Steelers.  He covets completely different positions and types of players.  We are about to see the results.

Freshstart wrote: He has taken five years to figure out an offensive line combination.  In fairness to the topic he didn't actually pick this line combination.  The Steelers had to experience such a rash of injuries that he was forced to play this combination.  They probably still have troubles here but it looks way better than two years ago

He loved the idea of drafting J. Jones as a pass rushing ROLB.....This is arguably our most vital role on the D....That guy has a better chance of hurting himself falling down untouched than getting a consistent pass rush

The CB's we have drafted during his tenure have been remarkably awful

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard

When did we stop believing we needed a true NT to run a 3-4??

We now love the idea of getting 5-7" 175 lb RB's.....is this really now a staple of our thought process?

How many years did we ride red zone redman and Jonathan Dwyer as potential feature backs (because Rashard hump my QB on national television) stunk so bad and obviously didn't even like football....All this before picking up the doobie brothers?  Does he have any idea what mind set and character a winning professional athlete needs to succeed?

I watched Derek Moye and Justin Brown at WR at PSU and believe me....the fact that we kind of like those guys says all that needs to be said about his understanding of WR play....They are not....NOT.... NFL players





Jim Wexell on us not being able to keep Lewis because he wanted to go home:

"I agree with most of this except Lewis wanted to stay.  Big mistake by the FO."


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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:15 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 



Freshstart wrote: 

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard

Heyward and Tuitt are a train wreck?
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:19 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


This thread is a trainwreck.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:27 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 


Interestingly, this thread's weak point is also player evaluation.  Is it smart enough?
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:37 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 



Freshstart wrote: He has taken five years to figure out an offensive line combination.  In fairness to the topic he didn't actually pick this line combination.  The Steelers had to experience such a rash of injuries that he was forced to play this combination.  They probably still have troubles here but it looks way better than two years ago  can't argue with that really

He loved the idea of drafting J. Jones as a pass rushing ROLB.....This is arguably our most vital role on the D....That guy has a better chance of hurting himself falling down untouched than getting a consistent pass rush  sadly, I can't argue with this either

The CB's we have drafted during his tenure have been remarkably awful  actually Cortez Allen is a decent CB2 and Keenan Lewis is a solid CB1.  We just let him go

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard  da'fuq?  Heyward's a beast and Tuitt will be a beast.  DL and ILB are probably the best 2 positions on this team

When did we stop believing we needed a true NT to run a 3-4??  when we stopped running a base 3-4

We now love the idea of getting 5-7" 175 lb RB's.....is this really now a staple of our thought process?  yeah, between Rainey and Archer, it's fairly obvious that Haley covets his own Dexter McCluster (who was never that good to begin with)

How many years did we ride red zone redman and Jonathan Dwyer as potential feature backs (because Rashard hump my QB on national television) stunk so bad and obviously didn't even like football.... well, you don't stink at football and end up with 38 TDs in 4 healthy seasons.  He had his flaws, but 'stinking at football' certainly isn't one of them.  All this before picking up the doobie brothers?  Remind me of the legal, drug, and character issues Bell displayed in college please?Does he have any idea what mind set and character a winning professional athlete needs to succeed?

I watched Derek Moye and Justin Brown at WR at PSU and believe me....the fact that we kind of like those guys says all that needs to be said about his understanding of WR play....They are not....NOT.... NFL players.  you can criticize Tomlin for many things, but picking WRs isn't one of them.  Picking *tall* WRs? yeah, a case can be made there.


That was actually unbelievable that (Joel) said that people do not debate him on football.  He just blocks out the parts where others are right, which leaves him almost nothing to remember. - Danimal
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:39 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 


actually I like Heyward (kind of) and Tuitt (for a rookie) as athletes.  Most every other team has recognized the need for units of defensive linemen to rotate in and out.  Keep naming the DL on the team who are playing well.  

How long would you have watched Ziggy Hood flounder around prior to cutting him loose?

Beard...great guy but clearly a stiff at this point in his career.  How do you explain needing him back?

Cam Thomas looks like a blob to me

2 serviceable guys out of 6 is a train wreck imo

Wvette wrote:
Freshstart wrote: 

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard

Heyward and Tuitt are a train wreck?
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:47 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Is he smart enough? Good ole boy mentality. Smh
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:50 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Tomlin is known by his contemporaries to be cerebral. Name One contemporary to say our white qb is cerebral. Fast decisions are not his forte (oft sacked) Why are you asking if HE is smart enough? Just using your logic
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:52 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Arent
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:53 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 



Voiceofreasonbaby wrote: Tomlin is known by his contemporaries to be cerebral. Name One contemporary to say our white qb is cerebral. Fast decisions are not his forte (oft sacked) Why are you asking if HE is smart enough? Just using your logic
Tomlin in his own words said he makes decisions by "gut" and by "feel."  

How else would we be able to explain some of the illogical game management decisions, so it makes sense?

He also said "they're cerebral, we're emotional" when talking about the Pats.

He may use the big words with the press, but he's already told us in his own words how he makes decisions.

Last edited 8/28/2014 12:54 PM by CowlinTomher

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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Whenever a Tomlin drafted player plays well, LEBEAU gets the credit. Lets be honest, SOME have a problem....
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  • Matt6999
  • Daniel Snyder
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:56 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 



Voiceofreasonbaby wrote: Whenever a Tomlin drafted player plays well, LEBEAU gets the credit. Lets be honest, SOME have a problem....

SOME meaning you.  All legitimate complaints.





Jim Wexell on us not being able to keep Lewis because he wanted to go home:

"I agree with most of this except Lewis wanted to stay.  Big mistake by the FO."


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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:59 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 


Now, people don't get it, but the defense of Mike Tomlin here pretty much is that he is just along for the ride, he really isn't doing anything but you just hate him/love Cowher or you just hate him because ...

I can get from what he says how someone would get to where they think he isn't "smart."

He doesn't let out too much in relation to his being a big football mind when he speaks. 

It is all vague and broad stroke when he talks. 

But, most NFL HCs have their public/media speak that makes your ears bleed, so he isn't too different from anyone else in that regard.

And, yeah, BC didn't come off as a great football mind for the most part, either.  Though, you did see him talking to his players in a more detailed way at times than you see with MT.

He did go to a pretty solid college, so there is that ...

But, as to the OP ... I think the same basic player procurement paradigm exists now as with BC.  Neither had exclusive say or even necessarily primary say in FAs or draft picks, but had a big say and probably veto power if they felt strong enough. 

I have those things about him that I am not sold on him, but again, this is going to be a big tell tale year, either way, so just gotta let it play out. 

Terrible pick in round three? 



Joel on Dri Archer - "Terrible pick in Round 3, I think so ... strongly dislike the pick in round three."
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Posted: 8/28/2014 12:59 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Guys with ISSUES hate a Black man with a vocabulary. How else do you explain all the references to "how he talks" etc. Again, they hate the vocabulary so they scramble to prove the lack of intellect. Men like this CANT compartmentalize that the knowledge is genuine.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 1:01 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 



CowlinTomher wrote:
Voiceofreasonbaby wrote: Tomlin is known by his contemporaries to be cerebral. Name One contemporary to say our white qb is cerebral. Fast decisions are not his forte (oft sacked) Why are you asking if HE is smart enough? Just using your logic
Tomlin in his own words said he makes decisions by "gut" and by "feel."  

How else would we be able to explain some of the illogical game management decisions, so it makes sense?

He also said "they're cerebral, we're emotional" when talking about the Pats.

He may use the big words with the press, but he's already told us in his own words how he makes decisions.
There's so much wrong with this post it's not even funny. In Tomlin's last presser they asked him how much the Steelers are using analytics during game. Tomlin (paraphrased here) basically said  we do use analyitics but we also use our years of experience gut feeling if you will.  We aren't going to take a singular approach only relying on one or the. The analytics is a tool we will use to help with our decisions. 

What he said is no where near you Bob Ross rendition, that couldn't be more off base. Then using a quote from when we play NE 3-4 years ago to interjection now... really?
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Posted: 8/28/2014 1:03 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 



Freshstart wrote: He has taken five years to figure out an offensive line combination.  In fairness to the topic he didn't actually pick this line combination.  The Steelers had to experience such a rash of injuries that he was forced to play this combination.  They probably still have troubles here but it looks way better than two years ago

He loved the idea of drafting J. Jones as a pass rushing ROLB.....This is arguably our most vital role on the D....That guy has a better chance of hurting himself falling down untouched than getting a consistent pass rush

The CB's we have drafted during his tenure have been remarkably awful

Our DL is a complete train wreck...witness needing to bring back the beard

When did we stop believing we needed a true NT to run a 3-4??

We now love the idea of getting 5-7" 175 lb RB's.....is this really now a staple of our thought process?

How many years did we ride red zone redman and Jonathan Dwyer as potential feature backs (because Rashard hump my QB on national television) stunk so bad and obviously didn't even like football....All this before picking up the doobie brothers?  Does he have any idea what mind set and character a winning professional athlete needs to succeed?

I watched Derek Moye and Justin Brown at WR at PSU and believe me....the fact that we kind of like those guys says all that needs to be said about his understanding of WR play....They are not....NOT.... NFL players
All solid points, and coming from a newer poster the usual cool aid gang might be a tad kinder on their replies.

Big Dan might be a key player for us...and the guy is a rookie picked late in the draft.
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Posted: 8/28/2014 1:04 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


Legit? Put Tomlin RECORD since 07 vs any other NFL Coach. Please tell us where Mike ranks. Of course that doesnt matter to you, it swallows your agenda lol. Cowher is REALLY been in demand since 06 too. Lol


---------------------------------------------
--- Matt6999 wro


Voiceofreasonbaby wrote: Whenever a Tomlin drafted player plays well, LEBEAU gets the credit. Lets be honest, SOME have a problem....

SOME meaning you.  All legitimate complaints.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 8/28/2014 1:08 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart 


Every coach is not smart enough at some point when it comes to evaluating talent.. Was Cowher not smart because he spent 1st/2nd round picks on Zo Jackson, Ricardo Colclough, Jamain Stephens, Scott Shields, Jeremy Staat, , etc? Out of curiosity I glanced back at Noll's draft history, and the high draft picks of the 80's were pretty bad for the most part, which is why the team was mediocre at best during that time. The year Noll drafted Dermontti Dawson in the 2nd round, he came back in the 3rd round with another center. Can you imagine if Tomlin picked the exact same position for 2 high picks in a row?
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  • Matt6999
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Posted: 8/28/2014 1:08 PM

Re: Tomlin's weak point is player evaluation...is he smart enoug 


I wanted Cowher fired after the 1999 season.  As of today Tomlin is nothing more than a modern Barry Switzer to me.  He has been along for the ride on a loaded team with great coordinators and a HoF QB in his prime.  As Jeff said, we are about to find out about his drafting and coaching.  I hope I'm wrong but based on the last 7 drafts, the players we let go and the players we keep and actually play, I fear I'm right.  I can't get passed 2 picks on a punter, letting Hood play 2.5 years over Heyward and not realizing Beachum was better than Adams after watching them every day.

Voiceofreasonbaby wrote: Legit? Put Tomlin RECORD since 07 vs any other NFL Coach. Please tell us where Mike ranks. Of course that doesnt matter to you, it swallows your agenda lol. Cowher is REALLY been in demand since 06 too. Lol








Jim Wexell on us not being able to keep Lewis because he wanted to go home:

"I agree with most of this except Lewis wanted to stay.  Big mistake by the FO."


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