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From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb?

Posted: 05/17/2013 12:52 PM

From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


I want everyones input on Jason Campbell.....what do you think of him? can....he be a starting qb in this league? Fill me in.Thanks.
Chud told team "I don't care what's happened here in the past; it's a new time;
it's a fresh start & we're building right now
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Posted: 05/17/2013 3:34 PM

Re: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


No he is a career back up journeyman at best.



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Posted: 05/17/2013 6:44 PM

Re: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 



IERaiderFan wrote: No he is a career back up journeyman at best.
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Posted: 05/17/2013 10:49 PM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


A better back up then most, but a back up still the same. I still think he'd have gotten us into the playoffs if he hadn't gone down.

 

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Posted: 05/17/2013 11:00 PM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


I disagree with those who answered so far, surround him with talented players and he can be an average starting QB. But that's the best case scenario, he's not a franchise QB, not even a playoff QB on most teams, and will never put up big stats. And worst case, if he's banged up and playing with scrubs, he'll frustrate you and you'll be dreaming of Weeden or Hoyer. Still, he's better than anything Cleveland has as far as I can tell. And based only on their time as Raiders, I give him a slight edge over Carson Palmer and Kerry Collins, and a fairly large edge over Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins, Daunte Culpepper, and Purple Drank QB.
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Posted: 05/18/2013 6:33 AM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 



golaclips wrote: I disagree with those who answered so far, surround him with talented players and he can be an average starting QB. But that's the best case scenario, he's not a franchise QB, not even a playoff QB on most teams, and will never put up big stats. And worst case, if he's banged up and playing with scrubs, he'll frustrate you and you'll be dreaming of Weeden or Hoyer. Still, he's better than anything Cleveland has as far as I can tell. And based only on their time as Raiders, I give him a slight edge over Carson Palmer and Kerry Collins, and a fairly large edge over Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins, Daunte Culpepper, and Purple Drank QB.
I agree for the most part, he can win in the right system (run heavy intermediate passing game, occasional shot down field). However, Palmer was the better QB for us.

Hopefully Flynn or Wilson can help us start forgetting about the last weekend.
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Posted: 05/18/2013 5:17 PM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


I was torn but ultimately I think Campbell was slightly better for us. I know that Palmer had two bad situations, the first year he came midseason and was forced to play without any chance to learn the plays or adjust to the new team. The second year, the front office gutted the roster. Still, I feel that despite the stats that looked better, Carson tended to singlehandedly blow games as often as he threw us back into them. Did he realize that the team was full of holes and figure that if he didn't do it nobody else would? I don't know, all I can go by is what I saw on the field. He took risks and a lot of them backfired. He had the ability to bring us back from a potential blowout, but did he ever actually do it? He made things interesting in a few games but I can't remember actually winning any comeback games with CP under center.

Campbell had a better supporting cast here, no doubt. He didn't have to constantly throw because the D gave up 30 or more in half our games. He never put up 300 yards and 4 TDs, but was more of a game manager who didn't blow games for us but also didn't give you a chance when you were down 3 scores. I was looking up Brad Johnson in his 30s as a comparison (simply because I don't remember his 20s) and Trent Dilfer, thinking he was a similar guy who could win in the right system but wouldn't put up monster stats. Brad had a way better team when he beat us to get a ring and played in way more games, but other than that their career stats are really similar and their career QB ratings an exact match at 82.5. We tend to have a good opinion of Dilfer as a game manager thanks to winning a ring in Baltimore, but Johnson and Campbell's stats are way better than Dilfer's.

Overall I think Palmer is overrated and Campbell underrated. People are still influenced by Palmer's Pro Bowl seasons, but 2007 was a long time ago, not a single player who caught a pass on that Bengals team is in the league anymore. He's nowhere near that level, at best an average starting QB, and with the bad exits from Cincy and Oakland you now have to wonder about his intangibles like leadership as well. Campbell on the other hand is called a "career back up journeyman at best," and yet he was the only starter since Gannon's Super Bowl year to win more than he lost here. Campbell was 7-5 in his first year, 4-2 in his second year. Gradkowski was the closest, with 3 wins and 5 losses. If you win more than 13 other QBs, including two #1 overall picks, a #5, and a #11, that's worth more to me than a 4000 yard 4 win season.
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Posted: 05/18/2013 8:08 PM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 



golaclips wrote: I was torn but ultimately I think Campbell was slightly better for us. I know that Palmer had two bad situations, the first year he came midseason and was forced to play without any chance to learn the plays or adjust to the new team. The second year, the front office gutted the roster. Still, I feel that despite the stats that looked better, Carson tended to singlehandedly blow games as often as he threw us back into them. Did he realize that the team was full of holes and figure that if he didn't do it nobody else would? I don't know, all I can go by is what I saw on the field. He took risks and a lot of them backfired. He had the ability to bring us back from a potential blowout, but did he ever actually do it? He made things interesting in a few games but I can't remember actually winning any comeback games with CP under center.

Campbell had a better supporting cast here, no doubt. He didn't have to constantly throw because the D gave up 30 or more in half our games. He never put up 300 yards and 4 TDs, but was more of a game manager who didn't blow games for us but also didn't give you a chance when you were down 3 scores. I was looking up Brad Johnson in his 30s as a comparison (simply because I don't remember his 20s) and Trent Dilfer, thinking he was a similar guy who could win in the right system but wouldn't put up monster stats. Brad had a way better team when he beat us to get a ring and played in way more games, but other than that their career stats are really similar and their career QB ratings an exact match at 82.5. We tend to have a good opinion of Dilfer as a game manager thanks to winning a ring in Baltimore, but Johnson and Campbell's stats are way better than Dilfer's.

Overall I think Palmer is overrated and Campbell underrated. People are still influenced by Palmer's Pro Bowl seasons, but 2007 was a long time ago, not a single player who caught a pass on that Bengals team is in the league anymore. He's nowhere near that level, at best an average starting QB, and with the bad exits from Cincy and Oakland you now have to wonder about his intangibles like leadership as well. Campbell on the other hand is called a "career back up journeyman at best," and yet he was the only starter since Gannon's Super Bowl year to win more than he lost here. Campbell was 7-5 in his first year, 4-2 in his second year. Gradkowski was the closest, with 3 wins and 5 losses. If you win more than 13 other QBs, including two #1 overall picks, a #5, and a #11, that's worth more to me than a 4000 yard 4 win season.
I disagree Palmer is way above Campbell I am not influenced by Palmer's Pro Bowl seasons coming up with won lost record means nothing you have to look at the complete picture. I have to words to say Greg Knapp end of story..



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Posted: 05/19/2013 3:13 AM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 



IERaiderFan wrote:
you have to look at the complete picture. I have to words to say Greg Knapp end of story..
You do realize what you said right? "Look at the complete picture, but really two words are all that really matter." noidea

You're entitled to your opinion but show me the whole picture if you say there's a huge difference. I went beyond W-L record, and I acknowledged the difficult situation CP was put in. But the stats don't say Palmer was better for us, just that he threw a lot more. The wins and losses don't. I didn't mention salary but for a team having to cut starters just to get under the cap that matters too, another pro for Campbell. The only thing I can tell that unequivocally supports Palmer is the front office's decision to keep Palmer over Campbell at the end of that first season, but they aren't always right and on top of that they let a lot of guys go so it doesn't mean a lot. Does keeping Marquette King over Shane Lechler mean we think he's way better?

Comparing Raiders stats, Campbell on top, Palmer on bottom. What indicates CP was "way above Campbell?"

Year                                     Team        G Played      G Started         Record              Completions    Attempts    Completion%         Yards               TD            TD%            Int              Int%             Long           Yds/Att      Adj Yds/Att   Yds/Cmp        Yds/Game         QB Rating
2010-2011 RAI  19  18  11-7-0 294 494 59.5% 3557 19 3.8  12  2.4  73 7.2 6.9 12.1 187.2 84.4
2011-2012 RAI  25  24  8-16-0 544 893 60.9% 6771 35 3.9  30  3.4  78 7.6 6.9 12.4 270.8 83.5

Last edited 05/19/2013 3:33 AM by golaclips

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Posted: 05/19/2013 5:57 AM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 



golaclips wrote:
IERaiderFan wrote:
you have to look at the complete picture. I have to words to say Greg Knapp end of story..
You do realize what you said right? "Look at the complete picture, but really two words are all that really matter." noidea

You're entitled to your opinion but show me the whole picture if you say there's a huge difference. I went beyond W-L record, and I acknowledged the difficult situation CP was put in. But the stats don't say Palmer was better for us, just that he threw a lot more. The wins and losses don't. I didn't mention salary but for a team having to cut starters just to get under the cap that matters too, another pro for Campbell. The only thing I can tell that unequivocally supports Palmer is the front office's decision to keep Palmer over Campbell at the end of that first season, but they aren't always right and on top of that they let a lot of guys go so it doesn't mean a lot. Does keeping Marquette King over Shane Lechler mean we think he's way better?

Comparing Raiders stats, Campbell on top, Palmer on bottom. What indicates CP was "way above Campbell?"

Year                                     Team        G Played      G Started         Record              Completions    Attempts    Completion%         Yards               TD            TD%            Int              Int%             Long           Yds/Att      Adj Yds/Att   Yds/Cmp        Yds/Game         QB Rating
2010-2011 RAI  19  18  11-7-0 294 494 59.5% 3557 19 3.8  12  2.4  73 7.2 6.9 12.1 187.2 84.4
2011-2012 RAI  25  24  8-16-0 544 893 60.9% 6771 35 3.9  30  3.4  78 7.6 6.9 12.4 270.8 83.5
As I have said before Stats are for baseball they don't show everything as far as who was on the receiving end how many dropped balls, how was the running game, how was the o line, defense, where did they start on the field they all have a bearing on a qb's performance In stand by my opinion..



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Posted: 05/19/2013 10:34 AM

RE: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


we should have just given the 7th rd pick for kyle orton,no way would he have done worse then carson palmer yr 1 and we could have kept our #17 pick and taken a qb like russell wilson after trading down to get a 2nd rd pick back and since we would have had the 3rd pick in the 2nd rd this yr we could have had #12 and the 3rd and 10th pick of the 2nd rd this yr !!!

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Posted: 05/19/2013 10:37 AM

Re: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


I never wanted Palmer in the first place..



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Posted: 05/19/2013 10:55 AM

Re: From a cleveland fan..Jason campbell a franchise qb? 


Campbell is a good game manager. He's got a strong arm and can make an amazing throw here and there. He's well liked and respected by teammates, and he'll give his all for the organization. But he can't win if he's the centerpiece of the offense, he needs to be surrounded by legit talent.

Yes Campbell can start in this league, no he's not a franchise QB, but he's a serviceable stop gap, and a good backup.

Mechanically, he has a slow windup release. He's more of a slow read and react QB than a quick timing QB. Rarely forces bad passes or threads a needle, if his WR is not clearly open he'll usually dump it off or scramble for a few yards. His mobility is solid, but he won't win games with his legs.
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