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The Case for Tim Tebow (Sources - Jets to Part Way with Tebow)

Posted: 10/1/2012 3:40 PM

The Case for Tim Tebow (Sources - Jets to Part Way with Tebow) 


First let me say that while my post count is low on this site, I am NOT a Tebow fan rooting for the Jets.  I am a Jet fan who thinks Tebow should be our starter (and have since he arrived) and I think the case can be made pretty clearly.

Not only is Mark Sanchez at times highly ineffective, he is a turnover MACHINE.  Last I checked, he fights back and forth with Eli Manning for most turnovers in the league since he started with the Jets.  The difference between the two QBs is, Manning is a high risk, high reward QB.   He has a lot of 4td, 2int type games.  Sanchez is simply a high risk guy.  He is wildly inaccurate for a pocket passer.  He doesn't throw picks because he is trying to fit the ball into tight spaces like a Favre or Manning, he's just bad at reading defenses and makes stupid mistakes.  He also protects the ball poorly while in the pocket.

Sanchez, in addition, will be even worse without Santonio Holmes.  The type of offense we will run with Tebow, will require far less talent at WR. 

So while he's certainly a better passer than Tebow, and he might even move the offense slightly better, his frequency in turnovers far outweighs any other benefit he might have to Tebow.

Here is the thing many people fail to grasp about how Tim Tebow can effect an entire football team.  People who dismissed Tebow's success last year claimed many things, a lot of them true.  "He isn't a good passer at all"- True.  "He was bad all game and then turned it on in the 4th quarter"- True.  "The defense kept him in all of those games"-True.

Tebow is certainly not on the level with NFL starters when it comes to pure passing ability.  But his physical nature, leadership, and instincts make up for it enough, that he can be competent.  Nobody is saying he's a world beater.

There isn't any "magical" Tebow reason he turns it on in the 4th quarter.  Pounding a defense with a physical running game for 50 minutes or so is taxing.  In this passing league today, defenses are not used to getting physically beat on for that period of time.  Tebow did better in the 4th quarter, because by that point, he and the power running game had sapped the defense.

The defensive play improved with Tim Tebow at QB.  Again, is that because of the "Tebow Magic"?  No.  The defense improved under Tebow for several reasons.  When you run the ball, you shorten the game, the defense was playing less when Tebow was in the game.  Even more importantly, while Tebow's offens didn't score much, they didn't turn it over much either.  It's amazing how great a solid defense will perform when you rarely put them in difficult situations.  When you have a turnover prone QB, you're putting your defense in bad spots, and Sanchez does that A LOT.

So basically folks it comes down to this.  Do you want to be boring and win, have a shot to make the playoffs?  Or do you want to continue the failed experiment that is Mark Sanchez, and watch the Jets go 5-11?

Last edited 12/20/2012 10:36 AM by hobson54

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Posted: 10/1/2012 3:46 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


I think 5-11 is their record no matter who starts at QB.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:09 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


I will say it Tebow's play in his first full season starting wasn't a thing of beauty, but how can you guys seriously talk about going to McElroy over a guy who just led an 0-4 team to the divisional round of the playoffs in his first season. I am sure he has improved even more as a QB and can't possibly be any less accurate then Mark Sanchez. 

I wasn't joking when i said the key to the games against the jets is keeping mark sanchez healthy. He is worse starting QB  in the league next to Gabbert (Possibly) and i feel like McElroy or Tebow would be better then him if he got knocked out of a game.

He has tebow's accuracy, Worse decison making then tebow, can't read defenses like tebow, and fling's the ball carelessly to avoid sacks at the last second which is why half his interceptions are by DE's DT's on passes flinged to his blocking RB while getting sacked.
Sanchez is done and if the jets were wise they would have taken a QB alternative they will actually trust traditional QB's like Weeden,Osweiler, Foles,Cousin's or the kid in seattle i forget his name right now. The writing has been on the wall for a while now on sanchez, these wildly innaccurate throws, Bad Decisions, poor third down conversion percentages haven't appeared this season.. They have been there for years and the GM and Coach just turned a blind eye because of draft status and because he pretty much got away with awful throws.

Start Tebow, Even if Sanchez rebounds the next game it will only fool you guys into devoting another year to this guy while bypassing legit franchise signal callers in the draft like it has the past 3 years. I know you guys don't want to admit it but a rebuild is seriously needed for you guys and it should start by drafting a guy you seriously believe in to take Sanchez's spot.

Last edited 10/1/2012 4:11 PM by Gonzorot

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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:18 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


that's the problem of Tebow's 2011......it left many false impressions. It would be nice if the Jets had a Vonn Miller at OLB that made big plays that gave Tebow good field position. Tebow is useless if the defense is going to surrender +20 points.

The biggest beef is what does he do for the Jets against NE?
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:31 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Want some eye opening stats.  I was curious so I looked them up.

Tim Tebow in his career as a passer has 17td's against 9ints.  Based on his career attempts, he averages a TD pass every 20.7 attempts, and he throws an interception every 39.9 attempts.

Mark Sanchez in his career has 60tds against 55 interceptions.  He averages a TD every 25.7 attempts, and he throws a pick every 28.8 att!  eek  Those are PASSING numbers folks.

Here is the end all be all.  Tim Tebow in his career has 12 rushing TDs, and despite being a regular runner with far more true rushing attempts than Sanchez, has TWO lost fumbles in his career.

Putting Tebow in his career with 29td's and 11 turnovers.  Nearly a THREE to one ratio.

Mark Sanchez, has 12 career rushing TD's and 13 lost fumbles.  Putting his grand total at 72 career TDs and 68 career turnovers, basically even money.

Sanchez is a turnover machine, who scores less TDs per attempt, and Tebow can run, and is a better leader.  Why is this idea so crazy again?
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:35 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Not sure where you get your Stats but Tebow had 6 fumbles lost last year!
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:37 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


where is Tebow running with no blocking? Tell me that one. If it is supposed to wortk for him, I would presume a running back might be able to get some of those yards. Let's also remember Tebow is not Carl Lewis......not exactly a speedster so he requires some blocking up front.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:37 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Espn.com says 6 fumbles, two lost.  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/...13200/tim-tebow

PS, even if that was the case, the numbers would still be staggering, lets get real it isn't even close.
lounap23 wrote: Not sure where you get your Stats but Tebow had 6 fumbles lost last year!
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Posted: 10/1/2012 4:58 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


cmon....Denver is a good runblocking team that defenses had to respect.........that led to opportunities in the passing game that Tebow took advantage of after sucking for 3.5 qtrs of football. With this defense in front of the 2011 Tebow......those slow starts would've been losses. Tim cannot lead by his arm when his arm is EXPECTED. I think even the Tebow fans would agree. NE was able to force that by scoring and taking away his running ability. That would be the theme of this season.

I do however support using Tebow more than what has been done so far..........basically saying Sporano has done a bad job overall. Tebow needs at least a full set downs to play with.......1 play here and there won't cut it mainly because the pass is not a threat. Even in Denver he had that rookie who could hit the homerun. Teams just stack the line with Tebow behind center and give him nothing. He needs a set of downs to bring in a bit of guesswork for the defense. On top of that, why he isn't in EVERY 1 yard situation is beyond me.

Bottom line for me is Jets can't win with 4 qtrs of Tebow....BUT........they can win with MORE Tebow than we have seen.

That said, none of it will work until the Jets provide bona fide running lanes up front and an RB that can exploit them.

Last edited 10/1/2012 5:08 PM by Seaver

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Posted: 10/1/2012 5:04 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


So we have a team with only a handful of talented players. Two of those, Revis & Holmes, are out. And you're making a case that we replace a more talented Sanchez with a much much less talented player in Tebow? All this based on the notion that TT will wear down NFL defenses? In business they say a company that must sell assets to fund operations is not going to be around long!
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Posted: 10/1/2012 5:14 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


If our coaching staff can't put this guy in and have some success, given TT's past, they they aren't worth it to begin with, IMO. We're talking about the NFL, if you can't make a gameplan adjustment (similar to what Denver did last year) and at least finish .500 on the season then we need new coaches AND a new QB. Is Tebow the long term solution? I don't think so. BUT, he CAN win games and his leadership is top notch. I'd bet Tone's foot would get better immediately if Tim were announced the starter. He's made his living denouncing non-believers in his style, let him do it again. Great job OP.

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Posted: 10/1/2012 5:23 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


What in the world has Mark Sanchez shown that would lead you to believe Mark Sanchez is more talented than Tim Tebow?

Their career PASSER rating is nearly identical, Tebow throws more TDs per attempt and throws FAR less ints per attempt.  Add all that to the fact hes the far superior runner.

Why, because he throws funny?  Because he isn't all that accurate?  Sanchez looks the part, anddddd thats about it.

And to other posters, this idea that Denver was so far superior to the Jets, explain what the heck they were doing for the 22 games or so the same exact team played under Kyle Orton and looked like one of the worst teams in the NFL?
trico990 wrote: So we have a team with only a handful of talented players. Two of those, Revis & Holmes, are out. And you're making a case that we replace a more talented Sanchez with a much much less talented player in Tebow? All this based on the notion that TT will wear down NFL defenses? In business they say a company that must sell assets to fund operations is not going to be around long!
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Posted: 10/1/2012 5:27 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 



zackattack7 wrote: Espn.com says 6 fumbles, two lost.  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/...13200/tim-tebow

PS, even if that was the case, the numbers would still be staggering, lets get real it isn't even close.
lounap23 wrote: Not sure where you get your Stats but Tebow had 6 fumbles lost last year!
Check your stats again 13 fumbles 6 lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/profile

as well as on Yahoo and CBSSportsline and Fox sports.. Apparently ESPN has there own stats on Tebow. Weird.   

Bottom line Tebow wont do worse than Sanchez they way Sanchez is playing now but ultimately he is not the long term solution.  He may give some juice and a pump but it wont be sustained and his QB play will be a hinderance then a help.  No question about that.

Last edited 10/1/2012 5:30 PM by lounap23

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Posted: 10/1/2012 5:30 PM

RE: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Again, it makes things slightly closer.  Still doesn't matter.  His turnover to TD ratio is still outrageously better than Sanchez, and his passing TD to INT ratio is unbelievably better.

And apparently he's the one who "can't throw".
lounap23 wrote:
zackattack7 wrote: Espn.com says 6 fumbles, two lost.  http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/...13200/tim-tebow

PS, even if that was the case, the numbers would still be staggering, lets get real it isn't even close.
lounap23 wrote: Not sure where you get your Stats but Tebow had 6 fumbles lost last year!
Check your stats again 13 fumbles 6 lost

http://www.nfl.com/player/timtebow/497135/profile
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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:02 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Tebow has better TO ratios throwing absolutely ZERO difficult throws a QB should make.

Shocking.

When 95% of what you do doesn't involve throwing anything beyond 5 yards it's hard to turn the ball over.


Tebow sucks.  Always has.  Always will.






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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:06 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Ya? How does that explain he throws tds at a higher rate then Sanchez?

---------------------------------------------
--- broadwayjoe2 wrote:

Tebow has better TO ratios throwing absolutely ZERO difficult throws a QB should make.

Shocking.

When 95% of what you do doesn't involve throwing anything beyond 5 yards it's hard to turn the ball over.


Tebow sucks.  Always has.  Always will.

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:10 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


oh cool...another thread trying to tell everyone that tebow is a great QB.

now i remember why i hated this trade... banghead
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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:15 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Some running backs have a higher percentage of throws that are TD's than Joe Montana does.

I know Tomlinson does.... does that make him a better QB than Joe Montana?


zackattack7 wrote: Ya? How does that explain he throws tds at a higher rate then Sanchez?

---------------------------------------------
--- broadwayjoe2 wrote:

Tebow has better TO ratios throwing absolutely ZERO difficult throws a QB should make.

Shocking.

When 95% of what you do doesn't involve throwing anything beyond 5 yards it's hard to turn the ball over.


Tebow sucks.  Always has.  Always will.

---------------------------------------------






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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:25 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 


Hobson,

Nobody said he is great, I certainly didn't. Mark Sanchez is god awful, Tebow is mediocre.

Joe,

Ridiculous statement. Because one or two RBs ran trick plays in their career you're going to compare that to a full season of statistical analysis from a starting QB.
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Posted: 10/1/2012 6:25 PM

Re: The Case for Tim Tebow 



zackattack7 wrote: Ya? How does that explain he throws tds at a higher rate then Sanchez?

---------------------------------------------
--- broadwayjoe2 wrote:

Tebow has better TO ratios throwing absolutely ZERO difficult throws a QB should make.

Shocking.

When 95% of what you do doesn't involve throwing anything beyond 5 yards it's hard to turn the ball over.


Tebow sucks.  Always has.  Always will.

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EXACTLY....Sanchez may not be the answer  but as sure as I am sitting here  TEBOW IS NOT..not even worth the try.....Tebow was a great college QB  running up stats against decent to horrible opponents at the time he played at Florida.....his college game  never did and NEVER will transpire to NFL.....if they want to change  give McElroy a shot  NOT TEBOW
JETS 2014 AFC EAST CHAMPS
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