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Have our drafts been that bad?

Posted: 12/20/2012 10:17 AM

Have our drafts been that bad? 


I keep hearing that ppl want to "clean house" but I totally disagree and here is why....

The team has drafted well over the past few seasons under Rex... Yeah i said it!!!

Wilkerson- stud and only getting better

Coples- really good now and will likely be a future stud

Green and Powell are solid guys and Mcnight is a game breaker who we can utlize in a passing game whenever we develop one.

Slauson- solid

Mclroy- solid backup to possible starter.

Hill- Its to early to tell

Davis- seems solid



The team has really only missed on Ducass and they keep trying to make thay happen despite no signs of life.

I chalk tebow up To Woody.

I also hear a lot of ppl compair out drafts to the pats and say that there's is great while ours is crap. Imo thats bc Brady covers up those mistakes. Ya dont have the 31st ranked D past yr without wiffing on some picks. A quality qb is everything now. I remeber last yr the colts lost to the saints 62-0 bc they didnt have a qb, but if you put Brees on the colts and gave painter to the saints, the colts prob win that game, which is just insane to me. Plus now the colts are a strong contender for a playoff after loosing a lot of talent in the offseason with the exception of the qb position. Its unbelievable.


Once this team gets a qb and focuses more of its resources on the offensive side of the ball i think it will be in fine shape. It really is a top 10 wr and top 10 qb away from being a serious contender imo. A top 10 rb would be nice too but not essential imo. In that way I would say the sky is far from falling.

Last edited 12/20/2012 10:24 AM by PolishJetFan

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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:24 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Have our drafts been that bad?  No.

2011 Draft - Wilkerson, Kerley, Powell, and Ellis...that draft class elevated itself from a C/C+ after the draft to an A-, IMO, A if Ellis becomes our starting NT.

2012 Draft - Coples, Davis, Hill, Bush, and Allen - another C/C+ draft if you evaluated on draft day that now looks like a B to A- depending on Hill's development. 

* We landed pro bowl caliber talent in back-to-back drafts, IMO, with Wilkerson and Coples.

* Kerley is amongst the best #3 WRs in the NFL.

* Davis will be our starting MLB beside Harris for years to come

* Powell may be our starting RB next year and our 3rd down back for teh foreseeable future.

* Allen and Bush may be our Ihedebo and Lowery special teams/sub package key contributers.

Add finding Howard, Reuland, and Gates from the last couple drafts sitting on people's practice squads and I'd say we did pretty good.

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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:36 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


The drafts haven't been bad but the lack of picks in 2007, 2009 and 2010 has hurt us as far as depth is concerned. I don't fault trading up in 2007 because we selected Revis and Harris.

Gholston was a mistake but you can't win them all. Keller is a nice player but this year he has been injured. If he wants lots of $$$ I think Cumberland will do a good job of replacing him.

Greene is OK but nothing more. Sanchez showed promise early and dropped like a brick. Slausen is average at best.

Ducasse has played better but is a career backup. Wilson has shown he can be a solid #2 CB. McKnight needs to get more carries and receptions which is the fault of the OC.

2011 and 2012 drafts seem very good. Mo and Kerley (where's Larry?) have stepped up their game. Hopefully Ellis becomes Kris Jenkins next year. McElroy looks like a solid #2 QB. I like the potential of Q, Hill, Davis, Bush and Allen.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 10:45 AM

RE: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Agree, lot of debate,

But Tom Brady employed a lot of people.

Mangini
Weis
Crennel
Mcdanials
Pioli
Banta Cain
Givens
Branch
LawFirm

and on and on and on...

QB is everything! makes everyone look good and likewise can make everyone look bad.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:10 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



JetScreamer wrote:

The drafts haven't been bad but the lack of picks in 2007, 2009 and 2010 has hurt us as far as depth is concerned. I don't fault trading up in 2007 because we selected Revis and Harris.

I started making this point a couple of years ago when I made my feelings known about Sanchez.

Tanny went trade up crazy for too many drafts. A trade up should only be done sparingly and only when you are 110% sure you are getting a stud player.

When you start missing you kill you team depth and that gets you compounding the problem with bad FA signings and reaches in the draft.


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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:17 AM

RE: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Howard sucks
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Posted: 12/20/2012 11:50 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


A lack of picks and a lack of finding some real "steals" in the draft has hurt. We love the star players who are top picks, but most teams are built by drafting well in the middle rounds and the picks haven't been there for the Jets.

And while a lot of the guys drafted during the Rex era has been good/solid/OK for the slot they were drafted, the really good teams seem to find players who's produce far greater than what would be expected ... when was the last time the Jets drafted a player who most people thought was a true "steal": some can say Revis at #15, but he was still a first rounder and the doubts about him were mostly related to the lack of being tested by top college QB play which wasn't something he could control ... David Harris was an excellent second rounder, but he was still top relatively high.

The Giants seems to find these low draftees/unsigned players who produce most than most 1st rounders.

RIP WIC 2005-2008

Last edited 12/20/2012 11:51 AM by HadronsAtHome

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Posted: 12/20/2012 12:15 PM

RE: Have our drafts been that bad? 



Seaver wrote: Howard sucks
While I do agree that we need a starting caliber RT , and this upcoming draft , if some of the draft guru predictions are right , may be the time and place for that upgrade. Having said that , Howard , considering that this is essentially his first year getting any kind of quality reps , has done a good job , and I'd love to see him back as the quality backup I believe he is.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 12:56 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



PolishJetFan wrote: I keep hearing that ppl want to "clean house" but I totally disagree and here is why....

The team has drafted well over the past few seasons under Rex... Yeah i said it!!!

Wilkerson- stud and only getting better

Coples- really good now and will likely be a future stud

Green and Powell are solid guys and Mcnight is a game breaker who we can utlize in a passing game whenever we develop one.

Slauson- solid

Mclroy- solid backup to possible starter.

Hill- Its to early to tell

Davis- seems solid



The team has really only missed on Ducass and they keep trying to make thay happen despite no signs of life.

I chalk tebow up To Woody.

I also hear a lot of ppl compair out drafts to the pats and say that there's is great while ours is crap. Imo thats bc Brady covers up those mistakes. Ya dont have the 31st ranked D past yr without wiffing on some picks. A quality qb is everything now. I remeber last yr the colts lost to the saints 62-0 bc they didnt have a qb, but if you put Brees on the colts and gave painter to the saints, the colts prob win that game, which is just insane to me. Plus now the colts are a strong contender for a playoff after loosing a lot of talent in the offseason with the exception of the qb position. Its unbelievable.


Once this team gets a qb and focuses more of its resources on the offensive side of the ball i think it will be in fine shape. It really is a top 10 wr and top 10 qb away from being a serious contender imo. A top 10 rb would be nice too but not essential imo. In that way I would say the sky is far from falling.
Missed on more than just Ducasse, Kyle Wilson has been a trainwreck he can't cover anybody
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Posted: 12/20/2012 2:40 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 




---------------------------------------------
--- SFCJETSFAN wrote:


PolishJetFan wrote: I keep hearing that ppl want to "clean house" but I totally disagree and here is why....

The team has drafted well over the past few seasons under Rex... Yeah i said it!!!

Wilkerson- stud and only getting better

Coples- really good now and will likely be a future stud

Green and Powell are solid guys and Mcnight is a game breaker who we can utlize in a passing game whenever we develop one.

Slauson- solid

Mclroy- solid backup to possible starter.

Hill- Its to early to tell

Davis- seems solid



The team has really only missed on Ducass and they keep trying to make thay happen despite no signs of life.

I chalk tebow up To Woody.

I also hear a lot of ppl compair out drafts to the pats and say that there's is great while ours is crap. Imo thats bc Brady covers up those mistakes. Ya dont have the 31st ranked D past yr without wiffing on some picks. A quality qb is everything now. I remeber last yr the colts lost to the saints 62-0 bc they didnt have a qb, but if you put Brees on the colts and gave painter to the saints, the colts prob win that game, which is just insane to me. Plus now the colts are a strong contender for a playoff after loosing a lot of talent in the offseason with the exception of the qb position. Its unbelievable.


Once this team gets a qb and focuses more of its resources on the offensive side of the ball i think it will be in fine shape. It really is a top 10 wr and top 10 qb away from being a serious contender imo. A top 10 rb would be nice too but not essential imo. In that way I would say the sky is far from falling.
Missed on more than just Ducasse, Kyle Wilson has been a trainwreck he can't cover anybody

---------------------------------------------
Jets have a top 3 passing D and have not allowed a 100 yard wr all season. If Wilson has been a "train wreck" than the numbers above would not be what they are. Wilson isnt revis or cro but he isnt a train wreck.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 4:00 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Totally disagree about Wilson. He's improved ever year and would be a starting #2 cb on most teams. Everyone can't be a HOF like Revis or pro bowl like Cro.













Also saw this from Jane McManus.







janesports Jane McManus Westhoff said Antonio Allen is one of those young impressive players whose "audition" is going well. #Jets #NFL 5 minutes ago
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Posted: 12/20/2012 4:23 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


I think too much is expected of Wilson and he has played very well this season. Each season he has improved, and just as important, stayed healthy.

I really like our first 3 picks this season and what I saw from Allen in his one game. Wilkerson is playing great and Powell has a future if the offense can throw the ball to the backs.
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Posted: 12/20/2012 4:24 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


I think the jets have done a good job of drafting ever since Tannenbaum's been at the helm and that goes back to 2006.  The problem with Mr T are all those trades where we gave up picks...but I can't fault for trading up for revis, Harris, green.  There have been some good UFA as well - devito, bellore, etc.

 

Had our share of missess, but so has everyone else.

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Posted: 12/20/2012 4:41 PM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



iangillan wrote:

I think the jets have done a good job of drafting ever since Tannenbaum's been at the helm and that goes back to 2006.  The problem with Mr T are all those trades where we gave up picks...but I can't fault for trading up for revis, Harris, green.  There have been some good UFA as well - devito, bellore, etc.

 

Had our share of missess, but so has everyone else.


+1

How can Wilson be a miss?  If you think that, well, I'm glad you're not a talent evaluater.

Is he a pro bowl caliber CB?  Absolutely not.  He's a #2 CB that could be the best cover corner on a lot of teams.  Finding CBs is hard.  I think he is a better cover CB than McCourty who gets burned every game for big plays.  Does Wilson give up some catches?  Yes.  But he usually puts himself in position to immediately make the tackle when beat and not give up the big play.  McCourty gets more picks, but Hoodie puts him at safety on nickel and dime packages because ultimately he will end up being a better safety than CB (which he struggles at, IMO).  Is he Joe Haden?  No.  But that's why Haden went almost 20 picks ahead of him.

The last 3 drafts we landed starters with our first rd pick...2 of which I believe have pro bowl potential (Wilkerson should make it this year and Coples looks like he could be even more disruptive than Wilkerson once he puts it all together).

Ellis and Hill are gems we still need to develop and Powell and Kerley have been HUGE additions, IMO. 

Davis to me looks like the real deal at MLB and could be a starter for 8-10 years.

Allen and Bush will get more chances to shine next year and I've been impressed with several undrafted free agents (Reuland, Howard, and Gates). 

I'm okay with this regime staying in place for the draft.  I wouldn't have agreed 10 weeks ago, but seeing Wilkerson, Coples, Kerley, Powell, and Davis turn it on has really impressed me.  Reuland, Allen and Bush have also shown promise.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 9:09 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Let face it Mcourty gets INTS because he plays against Sanchez. Wilson Doesnt because he plays against Brady... and that is A Jets Fans only true comparison.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 9:54 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 


Our drafts have actually been pretty good for the most part, I think.  The problem has been that management has not understood the importance of keeping the team together; continuity.  But really, come to think of it, most of our key players have stayed, with one CRUCIAL exception.

The most important player on the team, by far, the "straw that stirs the drink", the QUARTERBACK, has not been supported.  The offensive coordinators and receivers.  That's the entire problem, imo.  Here's the proof:  Our defense this season was very good even without Revis, the best player on that side of the ball at the most important position in our modern pass heavy NFL (as least in Rex's style of D).  Bottom line, the defense was able to withstand the Revis loss, the offense was not able to withstand the Holmes loss.  That combined with a poor offensive coordinator and the WR position being a turnstile the last few seasons (different players each year), Sanchez could not develop and/or maintain chemistry with his receivers.

That's the reason, sadly, that the Sanchez era is ending.  He was never supported by the organization, as unbiased NFL experts have pointed out, and that's a shame.  We will never know the kind of QB Sanchez could have developed into for us... (unless the organization ends up keeping him for cap reasons and he gets another shot to start with an improved OC and improved receiving corps).  I really think Eli Manning would have suffered the same fate if he was drafted by this organization.

Last edited 12/21/2012 10:22 AM by Jetman83

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Posted: 12/21/2012 9:55 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



NickSINYC wrote:
JetScreamer wrote:

The drafts haven't been bad but the lack of picks in 2007, 2009 and 2010 has hurt us as far as depth is concerned. I don't fault trading up in 2007 because we selected Revis and Harris.

I started making this point a couple of years ago when I made my feelings known about Sanchez.

Tanny went trade up crazy for too many drafts. A trade up should only be done sparingly and only when you are 110% sure you are getting a stud player.

When you start missing you kill you team depth and that gets you compounding the problem with bad FA signings and reaches in the draft.
But look at the trade to trade up for Sanchez. We gave up nothing to go up 12 spots to the #5 spot. We swapped 1st rd spots. so thats the wash what we gave up was a 2nd rd pick, Kenyon Coleman, Abram Elam and Bret Ratliff.  Come on to gamble on a possible franchise QB thats pittance.. and in my opinion you do that trade everytime. even if you knew it was only a 10% chance you Sanchez would be a Franchise QB.  We gave up nothing in that move other then the 2nd rd pick. Yes we could have had Freeman at #17 but with how inconsistent he has been my money would say he would have Sh** the bed here in NY just like Mark, the media would have eaten him up and would the front office done anything different to try and develop him. NO.  The one thing that better have been learned here is if you draft a QB and want him to be your franchise you put the right offense around him from the system to the players. Only the truly special ones are plug and play like a Luck.  RGIII is awesome but do you think he would be great as a Jets QB. not likely Was revamped the O for his style.  we wouldnt have done that.
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Posted: 12/21/2012 10:17 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



Jetman55 wrote:


How can Wilson be a miss?  If you think that, well, I'm glad you're not a talent evaluater.

Will you please stop attacking other Jets fans for the crime of having opinions different than your own?  Find a way to disagree wihtout being disagreeable.  And by the way, it's "evaluator".
_______________________________________________________________________

"The Mets have shown me more ways to lose than I even knew existed."
-Casey Stengel
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Posted: 12/21/2012 10:20 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



Jetman83 wrote: Our drafts have actually been pretty good for the most part, I think.  The problem has been that management has not understood the importance of keeping the team together; continuity.  But really, come to think of it, most of our key players have stayed, with one CRUCIAL exception.

The most important player on the team, by far, the "straw that stirs the drink", the QUARTERBACK, has not been supported.  The offensive coordinators and receivers.  That's the entire problem, imo.  Here's the proof:  Our defense this season was very good even without Revis, the best player on that side of the ball at the most important position in our modern pass heavy NFL.  Bottom line, the defense was able to withstand the Revis loss, the offense was not able to withstand the Holmes loss.  That combined with a poor offensive coordinator and the WR position being a turnstile the last few seasons (different players each year), Sanchez could not develop and/or maintain chemistry with his receivers.

That's the reason, sadly, that the Sanchez era is ending.  He was never supported by the organization, as unbiased NFL experts have pointed out, and that's a shame.  We will never know the kind of QB Sanchez could have developed into for us... (unless the organization ends up keeping him for cap reasons and he gets another shot to start with an improved OC and improved receiving corps).  I really think Eli Manning would have suffered the same fate if he was drafted by this organization.
When watching Jets games, IMO it's not the chemistry with his receivers that is missing, it's Sanchez's throws that are missing. He gets some pressure in the pocket (Howard) Sanchez steps up and throws to his check down. Greene is about 5 to 6 yards away and the ball is thrown over his head. Another play was about the same exact scenario and the ball was, get this, thrown at his feet. Most of his throws are always high.I believe Sanchez doesn't have good field vision
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Posted: 12/21/2012 10:24 AM

Re: Have our drafts been that bad? 



HadronsAtHome wrote: A lack of picks and a lack of finding some real "steals" in the draft has hurt. We love the star players who are top picks, but most teams are built by drafting well in the middle rounds and the picks haven't been there for the Jets.

And while a lot of the guys drafted during the Rex era has been good/solid/OK for the slot they were drafted, the really good teams seem to find players who's produce far greater than what would be expected ... when was the last time the Jets drafted a player who most people thought was a true "steal": some can say Revis at #15, but he was still a first rounder and the doubts about him were mostly related to the lack of being tested by top college QB play which wasn't something he could control ... David Harris was an excellent second rounder, but he was still top relatively high.

The Giants seems to find these low draftees/unsigned players who produce most than most 1st rounders.
+1
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