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Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples

Posted: 12/13/2012 2:03 PM

Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


I think after the first few weeks of the season we were all blown away by the mega pass rusher we passed on named Chandler Jones.  Now, we won't know who the better draft pick is till likely 2 more season (maybe by the end of next season)...but Jones has come back to Earth. 

Just thought this was interesting for those keeping tabs on Jones vs Coples -

Quinton Coples -

22 tackls (17 solo and 5 assisted), 3 sacks, 6 TFL, 0 FF, 1 PD

Chandler Jones - 

36 tackls (19 solo and 17 assisted), 6 sacks, 3 TFL, 3 FF, 3 PD

Interesting note on Mr. Jones -

First 6 games: 27 tackles, 5 sacks
Last 5 games: 9 tackles, 1 sack

We need Coples to shine down the stretch for this play-off push.  But driving to work I was thinking about this conversation and noticed I hadn't heard the name Chandler Jones in a while...he's fallen behind in the DROY talks (which is a hot topic here in Charlotte - I think it should go to Wagner for the Seahawks and it will be between Wagner, Keuchly, and Irvin).
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Posted: 12/13/2012 2:21 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


Funny thing is I've seen Q miss at least 2 sacks last week and maybe 4 all together this year.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 2:48 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



daddybe1 wrote: Funny thing is I've seen Q miss at least 2 sacks last week and maybe 4 all together this year.

He missed 2 in the Steelers game where he just couldn't draft Ben down and has 1 taking away due to a face mask penalty earlier this year.  He could easily have 5 or 6 sacks...which is what I think he'll finish with, 5 or 6, if Rex keeps playing him.  If Coples and Wilkerson finish out the year with 6 sacks each...I think we're in the play-offs and have a VERY bright future (despite everyoen complaining about all our holes, if you have a 3-4 scheme where the 3-4 ends are registering sacks, that's a recipe for unbeliavable coverage schemes and openings for blitzes.  These 2 guys can be very special.  3-4 ends rarely produce like these 2 can.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 3:01 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


Like comparing apples to oranges, because it's much easier to pad your stats in a 4-3 Defense. Notice the high assist tackles stat. 

In the 3-4 Coples is getting double teamed and some times triple teamed. The LB's are supposed to be the playmaker's, while the DL are wedge breakers.

I would choose Coples over Jones everyday of the week.

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:54 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



cysporsche wrote: Like comparing apples to oranges, because it's much easier to pad your stats in a 4-3 Defense. Notice the high assist tackles stat. 

In the 3-4 Coples is getting double teamed and some times triple teamed. The LB's are supposed to be the playmaker's, while the DL are wedge breakers.

I would choose Coples over Jones everyday of the week.

Go Jets...Cyborg

Cy, the cool thing is that they are getting decent stats for a 4-3 DE at the 3-4 alignment...tells me they are two beastly Ends (98 & 96)...Now, we just need #93 to have a great off-season & learn to be a destroyer in the middle, and we'll have among the best Dlines in the game.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:57 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



Jetman55 wrote:
daddybe1 wrote: Funny thing is I've seen Q miss at least 2 sacks last week and maybe 4 all together this year.

He missed 2 in the Steelers game where he just couldn't draft Ben down and has 1 taking away due to a face mask penalty earlier this year.  He could easily have 5 or 6 sacks...which is what I think he'll finish with, 5 or 6, if Rex keeps playing him.  If Coples and Wilkerson finish out the year with 6 sacks each...I think we're in the play-offs and have a VERY bright future (despite everyoen complaining about all our holes, if you have a 3-4 scheme where the 3-4 ends are registering sacks, that's a recipe for unbeliavable coverage schemes and openings for blitzes.  These 2 guys can be very special.  3-4 ends rarely produce like these 2 can.

+1. Like I said to CY, just think aobut how awesome they'd be if #93 materialized into a line engulfer like Hampton, Wilfork, Ratliff.

Scarey!!!
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:12 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


I wouldn't call Ratliff and engulfer but he is exceptional at penetrating. He may also be available next season.

Last edited 12/13/2012 5:12 PM by Lakerfan1980

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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:34 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 




---------------------------------------------
--- Lakerfan1980 wrote:

I wouldn't call Ratliff and engulfer but he is exceptional at penetrating. He may also be available next season.

---------------------------------------------

Agreed, Ratliff is a penetrater, not a pocket collapser. His game is different from Ngata, Wilfork, and Casey Hampton.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:05 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


If Coples and Wilkerson are potentially our best two players in the front seven you would think Rex would not want to marginalize them in a 3-4 alignment. Throw in we probably need to replace three of the four starting linebackers it makes even more sense to switch to a 4-3 almost exclusively.

We all know though Rex (like most coaches) are too stubborn to probably even think of that. One of the big differences between him and Belichick who's changed that team around a number of times based on talent and his competition.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 6:08 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


We play muliple fronts. We're not exclusive to the 3-4. Manish Mehta had a very good article(I put it in the defense of Ryan thread) about Ryan/Pettine's scheme. IMO, to suggest that Ryan is stubborn with his defense is shortsighted.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 10:05 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


BB was able to convert to a 4-3 defense because he stockpiled 4-3 DL talent from 3 consecutive drafts.
NE may be the only team to have had the available draft picks to be able to get away with such an audacious long-term plan.
Ron Brace, for example, was NEVER intended to play on a 3-4 DL, BB drafted him at the beginning, (2009), of his master conversion plan and kept him on ice until this season just so he would have a deep 4-3 rotation inside.
The past three seasons Hoodie has experimented with offset 3-4 DL sets and 4-3 sets in order to formulate his defensive game book for 2012.
The man is nothing if not methodical, calculating, and a long-range thinker.
HYATT™
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  • sakes
  • Air Traffic Control
  • 344 posts this site

Posted: 12/14/2012 8:22 AM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


Jones didn't play 2 of those last 5 games because of injury.

---------------------------------------------
--- Jetman55 wrote:

I think after the first few weeks of the season we were all blown away by the mega pass rusher we passed on named Chandler Jones.  Now, we won't know who the better draft pick is till likely 2 more season (maybe by the end of next season)...but Jones has come back to Earth. 

Just thought this was interesting for those keeping tabs on Jones vs Coples -

Quinton Coples -

22 tackls (17 solo and 5 assisted), 3 sacks, 6 TFL, 0 FF, 1 PD

Chandler Jones - 

36 tackls (19 solo and 17 assisted), 6 sacks, 3 TFL, 3 FF, 3 PD

Interesting note on Mr. Jones -

First 6 games: 27 tackles, 5 sacks
Last 5 games: 9 tackles, 1 sack

We need Coples to shine down the stretch for this play-off push.  But driving to work I was thinking about this conversation and noticed I hadn't heard the name Chandler Jones in a while...he's fallen behind in the DROY talks (which is a hot topic here in Charlotte - I think it should go to Wagner for the Seahawks and it will be between Wagner, Keuchly, and Irvin).

---------------------------------------------
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Posted: 12/14/2012 8:49 AM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



sakes wrote: Jones didn't play 2 of those last 5 games because of injury.

---------------------------------------------
--- Jetman55 wrote:

I think after the first few weeks of the season we were all blown away by the mega pass rusher we passed on named Chandler Jones.  Now, we won't know who the better draft pick is till likely 2 more season (maybe by the end of next season)...but Jones has come back to Earth. 

Just thought this was interesting for those keeping tabs on Jones vs Coples -

Quinton Coples -

22 tackls (17 solo and 5 assisted), 3 sacks, 6 TFL, 0 FF, 1 PD

Chandler Jones - 

36 tackls (19 solo and 17 assisted), 6 sacks, 3 TFL, 3 FF, 3 PD

Interesting note on Mr. Jones -

First 6 games: 27 tackles, 5 sacks
Last 5 games: 9 tackles, 1 sack

We need Coples to shine down the stretch for this play-off push.  But driving to work I was thinking about this conversation and noticed I hadn't heard the name Chandler Jones in a while...he's fallen behind in the DROY talks (which is a hot topic here in Charlotte - I think it should go to Wagner for the Seahawks and it will be between Wagner, Keuchly, and Irvin).

---------------------------------------------

Wrong...Jones played in all 11 games mentioned.  Note the Patriots have played 13 games.  I didn't include stats in non played game.  Check ESPN gamelog if you'd like to confirm.

Coples stats are over 13 games and Jones over 11.
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  • sakes
  • Air Traffic Control
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Posted: 12/14/2012 9:23 AM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



Jetman55 wrote:
sakes wrote: Jones didn't play 2 of those last 5 games because of injury.

---------------------------------------------
--- Jetman55 wrote:

I think after the first few weeks of the season we were all blown away by the mega pass rusher we passed on named Chandler Jones.  Now, we won't know who the better draft pick is till likely 2 more season (maybe by the end of next season)...but Jones has come back to Earth. 

Just thought this was interesting for those keeping tabs on Jones vs Coples -

Quinton Coples -

22 tackls (17 solo and 5 assisted), 3 sacks, 6 TFL, 0 FF, 1 PD

Chandler Jones - 

36 tackls (19 solo and 17 assisted), 6 sacks, 3 TFL, 3 FF, 3 PD

Interesting note on Mr. Jones -

First 6 games: 27 tackles, 5 sacks
Last 5 games: 9 tackles, 1 sack

We need Coples to shine down the stretch for this play-off push.  But driving to work I was thinking about this conversation and noticed I hadn't heard the name Chandler Jones in a while...he's fallen behind in the DROY talks (which is a hot topic here in Charlotte - I think it should go to Wagner for the Seahawks and it will be between Wagner, Keuchly, and Irvin).

---------------------------------------------

Wrong...Jones played in all 11 games mentioned.  Note the Patriots have played 13 games.  I didn't include stats in non played game.  Check ESPN gamelog if you'd like to confirm.

Coples stats are over 13 games and Jones over 11.

My fault, I believe you, I didn't realize that you had scratched those games.
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Posted: 12/14/2012 9:24 AM

RE: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


Right now it's hard to say... The Jets needed a Pass Rusher OLB guy so bad, and we went more for the DE Guy, so it was a little bit of a surprise. However I think that watching Coples I think that he can be a Great Player. I think that what we are seeing from Jones is what you're gonna get... I think that what we are seeing from Coples is just a taste of the player that he will become... Coples is being moved all along the line and has way more responsibilities than Jones's position in NE's Defense. If these guys can both stay healthy I think that both will be great players. Coples needs more discipline and polishing right now, Check back after next season and I think that Coples will be a very important player on our D, He may never have better Stats than a 4/3 guy but I think that he has the ability to make game changing plays....
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Posted: 12/14/2012 10:42 AM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



ncgreen12 wrote: If Coples and Wilkerson are potentially our best two players in the front seven you would think Rex would not want to marginalize them in a 3-4 alignment. Throw in we probably need to replace three of the four starting linebackers it makes even more sense to switch to a 4-3 almost exclusively.

We all know though Rex (like most coaches) are too stubborn to probably even think of that. One of the big differences between him and Belichick who's changed that team around a number of times based on talent and his competition.
cheers.gif BINGO ! The Jets would have an awesome 4-3 Defense.

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/14/2012 10:47 AM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



HYATT wrote: BB was able to convert to a 4-3 defense because he stockpiled 4-3 DL talent from 3 consecutive drafts.
NE may be the only team to have had the available draft picks to be able to get away with such an audacious long-term plan.
Ron Brace, for example, was NEVER intended to play on a 3-4 DL, BB drafted him at the beginning, (2009), of his master conversion plan and kept him on ice until this season just so he would have a deep 4-3 rotation inside.
The past three seasons Hoodie has experimented with offset 3-4 DL sets and 4-3 sets in order to formulate his defensive game book for 2012.
The man is nothing if not methodical, calculating, and a long-range thinker.
Robert, I don't totally agree ? Ron Brace was drafted to give Vince Wolfork a rest @ NT. Wolfork is loving the 4-3 DT position, and he was one of the best NT in football. For Belichick to convert to the 4-3 after making the 3-4 popular with the Steelers, there has to be multiple reasons. Wish Rex would see the light !noidea

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/15/2012 11:59 PM

Re: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



cysporsche wrote:
HYATT wrote: BB was able to convert to a 4-3 defense because he stockpiled 4-3 DL talent from 3 consecutive drafts.
NE may be the only team to have had the available draft picks to be able to get away with such an audacious long-term plan.
Ron Brace, for example, was NEVER intended to play on a 3-4 DL, BB drafted him at the beginning, (2009), of his master conversion plan and kept him on ice until this season just so he would have a deep 4-3 rotation inside.
The past three seasons Hoodie has experimented with offset 3-4 DL sets and 4-3 sets in order to formulate his defensive game book for 2012.
The man is nothing if not methodical, calculating, and a long-range thinker.
Robert, I don't totally agree ? Ron Brace was drafted to give Vince Wolfork a rest @ NT. Wolfork is loving the 4-3 DT position, and he was one of the best NT in football. For Belichick to convert to the 4-3 after making the 3-4 popular with the Steelers, there has to be multiple reasons. Wish Rex would see the light !noidea

Go Jets...Cyborg
There's no grand conspiracy here. Hoodie has been very open about his plans to convert to a full-time 4-3 for years.
In 2008 there were just 7 teams, (DAL, SD, NJJ, PIT, BAL, AZ, CLE) using the 3-4 defense and 2 who were hybrid defenses (KC, CIN) incorporating the 3-4 sets on about 20% to 30% of their plays.
In 2009 TEN teams signaled their intention to switch to a 3-4 defense, (SF also signaled it would become a hybrid using 3-4 packages about 30%-40% of the time), partially because the Steelers had just won 2 SBs in 4 seasons using it and 4 of the 6 AFC playoff teams in 2008 used a 3-4 defense.
AZ from the NFC made 5 of the 7 (pure 3-4) defenses showing up in the 2008 playoffs. Only DAL and SD didn't make it. (KC & JAX were using a hybrid in 2008.)

BB made it known that he thought the upcoming 2009 & 2010 draft classes were weak on 3-4 defenders and with the conversion of the ten teams, 17 teams chasing 3-4 defenders left more available numbers of high talent 4-3 defenders, especially DL players, compared to having to fight for 3-4 defenders with those 16 other teams. (KC subsequently switched to more 4-3 in 2009, so it became 15 other teams eventually.)

Several of those 3-4 teams that did convert found out Hoodie was right, and several eventually switched back to 4-3 defenses - DEN, CIN, BUF, CLE, MIA, & OAK among them.
CIN still toys with 3-4 sets on occasion but is pretty much in the 4-3 camp now.

KC has switched back and forth a couple times in the intervening years but remains a 3-4 defense for now.

NJJ, PIT, BAL, DAL, SF, WAS, (AZ - after pretending to be a hybrid for a year & a half and giving it up as not worth the headaches), GB, & SD - are still pure 3-4 teams - while JAX & OAK have given up on the whole "hybrid" mentality and gone back to the 4-3.
HOU went 3-4 last season, bringing the current total of more or less "pure" 3-4 teams to 11.
HYATT™

Last edited 12/16/2012 12:23 AM by HYATT

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Posted: 12/16/2012 2:08 AM

RE: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 


Chandler Jones sucks because he is on the Patriots. Quentin Coples is great because he is on the Jets.

Glad we have that settled!

Jets & Hawkeyes. I must enjoy torturing myself. >.<
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Posted: 12/16/2012 4:48 AM

RE: Update: Chandler Jones versus Quinton Coples 



Revan89 wrote: Chandler Jones sucks because he is on the Patriots. Quentin Coples is great because he is on the Jets.

Glad we have that settled!
Impeccable logic.
You, Sir, are a gentleman, a scholar, and a worthy judge of good whiskey and fine women - or is it of fine whiskey and good women - I can never get that straight.
HYATT™

Last edited 12/16/2012 4:48 AM by HYATT

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