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Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was?

Posted: 12/11/2012 12:13 PM

Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


With how Sanchez has performed this year, lets compare him to another top picked QB, Tim Couch


Sanchez through 60 games:

55.3% completion
11,756 yards passing
67 TDs
64 INTs
72.9 Career QB rating

Tim Couch through 59 starts and 62 games:

59.8% completion
11,131 yards passing
64 TDs
67 INTs
75.1 Career QB rating


Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch? The numbers like alarmingly similar.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 12:39 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


Mark Sanchez Sucks Thread #37






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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:02 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


puke.gifTim Couch is worse than Sanchez.

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:17 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



broadwayjoe2 wrote: Mark Sanchez Sucks Thread #37
It's relaxing not to have to defend my position constantly and not be alone anymore


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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:19 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


Nope Mark Sanchez sucks. The guy who has been our starter the last 2 years is awful.
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Posted: 12/11/2012 3:52 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


Couch was even worse.
He had better OCs.
HYATT™
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Posted: 12/11/2012 5:19 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


Tim Couch played for an expansion team. It lacked talent at all positions, but most importantly, his offensive line was absolutely atrocious. In his first year, he took 56 sacks in 399 passing attempts. In his second year, he took 10 sacks with 215 passing attempts (before suffering a broken thumb that knocked him out for the rest of the season). In his third year, he took 51 sacks with 454 passing attempts.

That is 117 hits on 1068 passing attempts, or basically sacked on 1 out of every 10 dropbacks (and a tremendous amount of QB hits). For comparison, Sanchez took 40 sacks on 443 attempts in 2011 and 31 sacks on 405 attempts this year. These were down years for the Jets offensive line, and he still took only 71 sacks in 848 attempts, or 1 in every 13 dropbacks. If that doesn't seem bad, think about how you would feel if over the next 220 attempts by Mark Sanchez, he took 46 sacks. That's what it would take to catch the rate Couch was getting sacked.

I don't know if Tim Couch would ever been a successful QB in the league. It was really hard to evaluate him because he was in such a dismal situation for a starting QB. He never really had the high points of Sanchez, so I would say the safer bet is to say Sanchez was the better QB. But frankly, Couch gets an incomplete from me because he was put in about as hopeless a situation as a QB can find. He was a huge bust, but he would need to have been something truly remarkable to avoid that label.

Last edited 12/11/2012 5:20 PM by Mercury529

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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:10 AM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


rolleyes

*The pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.*

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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:26 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



Mercury529 wrote:  but he would need to have been something truly remarkable to avoid that label.
Like rookie Luck playing for a 2-14 Indy team, you mean?
HYATT™
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Posted: 12/12/2012 12:48 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



HYATT wrote:
Mercury529 wrote:  but he would need to have been something truly remarkable to avoid that label.
Like rookie Luck playing for a 2-14 Indy team, you mean?
I certainly think Luck qualifies as something truly remarkable. He was the best prospect in over a decade. If there is any prospect who came out since Couch that might have been able to succeed in that environment, it is Luck.

But that environment was an absolute disaster for a young QB to step into. The team consisted entirely of draft picks (most of which proved to be fairly bad), a handful of veterans current teams expressed a willingness to part with, and players that couldn't make any other team's roster. It was ugly.

Eli and Brees are with little doubt 2 of the best and most successful QBs in the league. Both had some early struggles despite having talent and coaching around them. Considering your views on Cassel and Brady, you seem to have an appreciation for how circumstance affects a QB's output. Do you think Eli or Brees go on to have successful careers if they are mired on the Browns expansion team for 4+ years?

Odds are Couch ends up being a bust regardless of where he lands. But the reality is the Browns would have been a death sentence for all but the most remarkable of prospects.
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Posted: 12/12/2012 9:43 PM

RE: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


You people are crazy! If Tim Couch had our offensive line (3 Pro Bowlers) he might still be playing. They even wrote a book about how the Browns were set up to fail. Sanchez has gotten worse and worse every year.

www.amazon.com/False-Start-Bro...l/dp/1886228884

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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:07 AM

RE: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



WildcatMatt27 wrote: You people are crazy! If Tim Couch had our offensive line (3 Pro Bowlers) he might still be playing. They even wrote a book about how the Browns were set up to fail. Sanchez has gotten worse and worse every year.

www.amazon.com/False-Start-Bro...l/dp/1886228884
wasn't that book a follow up to this one?

http://www.amazon.com/101-Hope...s/dp/0590436368


Tim Couch? What about Todd Marinovich ,Ryan Leaf or Rick Mirer? WCM27, These QB's stunk it up big time, no matter what team they played for.
Sanchez, considering the market that the kid has been playing in.  Under microscopic scrutiny on every play, already surpasses any of the above mentioned QB's.
Is Mark a mediocre QB, of course-but let's not for a second discount what he has done in the playoffs to allow his team to make it to 2 straight AFCCG's.
Also have in mind, he hasn't had a losing season as an NFL QB yet.  The Jets we're in playoff discussion even at the end of last season with dissension in the locker room.
As horrid and timultuous as a 2012 has been for the green and white and all the B.S surrounding the aura of Tebow breathing down his neck, he still has this team a win away from a wild card spot.  
Mark is head and feet above water than the rest of these jokers.

*The pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.*

Last edited 12/13/2012 5:13 AM by nyjetsdan16

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Posted: 12/13/2012 12:49 PM

RE: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


Couch had a better QBR than Sanchez.

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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:16 PM

RE: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



WildcatMatt27 wrote: Couch had a better QBR than Sanchez.

Chad had a higher completion percentage than Brady...you taking Chad?
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:30 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


I was thinking about those playoff wins that Couch QB'd....ooops
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:50 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



maxmet wrote: I was thinking about those playoff wins that Couch QB'd....ooops
So do you believe Sanchez would have had 4 playoff wins in 2 seasons if he was the starting QB for the 1999 Browns?
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Posted: 12/13/2012 1:54 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 


If you're having trouble answering this question, ask yourself this:

1. Did the Browns coddle Couch? Did it ever appear to you like they were trying to keep him from feeling (1) like he had competition for his starting job, (2) like he had to win games for them, or (3) throw 15 or more time per game?

2. Did the Browns get him weapons or lines to keep his jersey clean via the draft or free agency in the five years he spent with them? Clearly, the Jets have with their fourth-year QB, and most of them were first-round picks:

Santonio Holmes
Braylon Edwards
Plaxico Burress
LT
Derrick Mason
Shonn Greene
Vlad Duccasse
Jeremy Kerley
Joe McKnight
Jason Smith
Stephen Hill

Mangold, Keller, Faneca, Moore, (Brad) Smith, Jones, Washington, and Ferguson were Jets before he got here, so no one can say he didn't have one of the better situations a QB could come in to out of college at the time.

Last edited 12/13/2012 2:12 PM by aijmuah

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Posted: 12/13/2012 3:23 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



Mercury529 wrote:
maxmet wrote: I was thinking about those playoff wins that Couch QB'd....ooops
So do you believe Sanchez would have had 4 playoff wins in 2 seasons if he was the starting QB for the 1999 Browns?

Nope, but he was instrumental in the ones he had here.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 4:56 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



skopko wrote:

Nope, but he was instrumental in the ones he had here.
And that's fine. My point was just that it's unreasonable to use playoff wins as the measure when Sanchez would have had 0 playoff wins had he been dropped into Couch's situation. Team success is not an accurate measure of individual performance and contribution.
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Posted: 12/13/2012 5:02 PM

Re: Is Mark Sanchez better than Tim Couch was? 



Mercury529 wrote:
skopko wrote:

Nope, but he was instrumental in the ones he had here.
And that's fine. My point was just that it's unreasonable to use playoff wins as the measure when Sanchez would have had 0 playoff wins had he been dropped into Couch's situation. Team success is not an accurate measure of individual performance and contribution.

I am good with that, Merc!!

By the same token, If Mark still had a TJ, and Shonn, Tone, Cotch, BEast, Keller, Faneca, and Woody (accounting for age of course) all healthy for the past two years, we wouldn't be reading this threadwink
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