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A defense of Rex Ryan

Posted: 12/7/2012 10:49 AM

A defense of Rex Ryan 


I know Rex has his flaws, and I am not saying he is a perfect coach.  BUT, through his first 2 seasons he took us to 2 AFC championship games, followed by an 8-8 season. This year, when it's all said and done, I believe we will be 8-8 again while missing our best player on defense and maybe our best player on offense.  

I understand we are in the business of trying to win championships, not go .500 or win a playoff game here or there.  But if we judge coaches in 4 year spans on whether or not they win a superbowl, almost every coach should get fired immediately.  

I think a coach's responsibility is to get their team into a group of 8-10 teams every year that could get hot and win a title.  Once you get to playoffs, anything can happen.  Although Rex and our Jets will probably miss the playoffs for a 2nd year in a row, I think a firing is a knee jerk reaction.  Rex is a good coach, and deserves another few years to see if he can keep us competitive as he has done through 3.5 seasons. 

I really believe people view Rex in a negative light simply because of all the distractions and media attention that the team gets.  Keep Rex, he's good.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 11:38 AM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


I think we should keep him.  I think the biggest reason we're not a play-off team is a bad choice at QB.  I honesty think that's the biggest difference between 8-8 the last 2 years and 10-6 and having made the play-offs all 4 years.

Now he faces a concern with an aging D (specifically at OLB and S) and lack of depth at o-line.  Jets are going to have to retool.  The good thing is even with the worst (bottom 3rd) QB in the NFL we're an 8-8 team.

You can point your fingers at a lot of weaknesses, but when you're 8-8 with a bottom 3 QB...that says a lot about the quality of his coaching as well as the strength of the rest of the roster.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 11:50 AM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


The talent level of this team, and this included a heatlty Revis and Holmes, is below-average and Tannenbaum has done a terrible job with the draft since 2010 and Woody has no clue when to interfere and when to back off as good owners should.  The Jets' record will be inflated due to playing awful teams down the stretch, and look at who we have beaten.  A Bills team led by Fitzpatrick who we own, Dolphins with an average rookie QB thanks to a missed FG, Rams who have beenthe joke of the NFL the last 5 seasons, Cardinals with Lindley at home.  I'll give you the victory over the Colts as the highlight where we made Luck look like a rookie.  This team should beat the Jaguars, Titans, Chargers at home and Bills again, but it doesn't mean anything.  Too many bad or average teams in the NFL and we're one of them. 

Rex should get one more chance but Sanchez hasn't earned his.  Demote Tannenbaum to salary cap role and bring in GM from another team with a scouting background.  Build through the draft and dump Tebow and bad guys like Scott

 

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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:14 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


How much longer does Rex have on his current contract ? I would keep Rex, but "Clean House" in our coaching area:

1) Hire a football guy as President over Tannenbaum. A Bill Polian or Tom Moore type guy. A football genius who is very well respected in the league, but young enough to handle this job.
2) Demote Tanny to capologist only, no more football decisions.
3) Replace Sparano as O.C. immediately. (Norv Turner) Someone who is an offensive genius.
4) Replace Westhoff as S.T. coach. He's old grouchy and lost his magic.
5) Replace Cavanaugh as QB coach (Chad Pennington).
6) Replace Mike Pettine as our D.C. because he's tied to rex's hip. Bring in a guy who believes in the 4-3 defense or mixing defenses.
7) Replace Dave Deguglielmo as our OL coach because he's tied to Sparano.
8) Replace Terry Bradway who runs our draft room. Below average drafts for too long.
9) Replace Joey Clinksdale over scouting, who left for the Raiders.
10) Replace Mike Devlin as our TE & assistant OL coach.

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:26 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


I think it's time to give Ryan another year, but I'm on the fence about if he can develop into
a quality head coach - I don't think he is one today.

I also don't know how much of the draft and free agency moves have been Tannenbaum
vs. Rex vs Rex or others.

I think Rex is a very good defensive coach, but I think areas he needs to improve in are:

1) His mouth - I think he talks too much smack when it's not warranted, and gets
opponents putting a target on our team. I know these are pros, and it shouldn't matter,
but I think it does. I also think he's too supportive of his players in general. I think he is
publicly supporting them when they play bad instead of calling them out.

2) Bad loyalty - I think he is loyal to a fault to "his guys" and veterans whether their play merits it or not. Examples of that are certainly Bart Scott, John Connor and IMO now Mark
Sanchez I don't know if it was Rex's decision or not but I think Vladimir Ducasse and last
year's RT (having a brain fart, maybe intentionally), and others.

3) Personnel decisions. I'm not sure how much of these decisions are Ryan's, but I think
the offense has been neglected the last 2-3 years at the expense of trying to maintain
Rex's "top 5 defense". We clearly ignored our RT issue in the draft and FA for 2 years,
and the rest of the OL when going big in the draft and FA for defense. Yes we drafted Hill
(which I'm happy with) and acquired several mediocre player at other offensive positions,
but that is very little compared to going for Wilkerson, Coples, Davis, Ellis, Landry, Bell, Allen, Bush, etc. I won't even get into Tim Tebow, but I'm guessing that was more Woody
than anyone.

4) Accountability for the whole team - he seems to still have the mindset that he's a
defensive coordinator. I don't see him looking to manage his coaches and players for the
offense and specials. And a lot of interviews he seems to talk about how he guarantees that we'll have a top defense, but what about having a very good offense (and Specials,
I love Westhoff, but they've sucked this year).

5) His pressers. This doesn't have anything to do with whether we win or not, but I think
he has regressed into looking like a bumbling idiot as we have been spiraling downward flushed
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:27 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



Kellen11Clemens wrote: The talent level of this team, and this included a heatlty Revis and Holmes, is below-average and Tannenbaum has done a terrible job with the draft since 2010 and Woody has no clue when to interfere and when to back off as good owners should.  The Jets' record will be inflated due to playing awful teams down the stretch, and look at who we have beaten.  A Bills team led by Fitzpatrick who we own, Dolphins with an average rookie QB thanks to a missed FG, Rams who have beenthe joke of the NFL the last 5 seasons, Cardinals with Lindley at home.  I'll give you the victory over the Colts as the highlight where we made Luck look like a rookie.  This team should beat the Jaguars, Titans, Chargers at home and Bills again, but it doesn't mean anything.  Too many bad or average teams in the NFL and we're one of them. 

Rex should get one more chance but Sanchez hasn't earned his.  Demote Tannenbaum to salary cap role and bring in GM from another team with a scouting background.  Build through the draft and dump Tebow and bad guys like Scott
How can it be "below average?"  That makes NO SENSE. 

We're 8-8 likely 2 years in a row and picking 16-18...which would make us average... (32 teams in the NFL) and that's without our 2 best players...

If you're average without your 2 best players, that would make you above average with your two best players...so how does that equal "below average talent" with your two best players?
  We went 8-8 without them...
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:29 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


I think this is a good thread particularly because it gives some balance to the frequent and negative attention given to potentially firing Rex...

Let's assume certain things (realizing that a couple of these assumptions could be debated to some degree) and provide some facts:
a) the Jets have very little to no offensive talent
b) the starting QB is a turnover machine that is inconsistent at best
c) the defense has many aging player and the overall speed is suspect in key areas (LD specifically)
d) the OC has not done a great job (I would give Sparano some time given the argument about no offensive talent and the QB sucking)
e) Parcells, Groh, and Ryan are the ONLy coaches in Jets history to have a career above .500 winning percentage
f) Ryan is the ONLY Jets coach in history to go to 2 AFC games
g) The Defense has been a perennial force over the past 4 years, although it has slipped to average or slightly above average in the past year or two
h) Rex actually WANTS to be the HC of NYJ for a long time eek - what person is crazy enough would want that
i) Players continue to fight and play hard for Rex regardless of the record
j) Jets lost #1 offensive and #1 defensive players
k) Rex had to deal with the Tebow fiasco when it is clear that he did not want the dude

And then let's predict the Jets go 8-8 or perhaps even 9-7 this year. One can say that the Jets simply beat up "easy" teams to go 9-7, which I think is a stupid argument because all teams face "easy" teams - the Jets just happened to play these cluster of teams together at the end of the year.

So, if that is the case and they go 9-7 or even 8-8, one can probably assume that they would be in top 8 teams or so in the AFC. Thus, despite having no talent on Off, the Def in an aging and talent decline, and QB who... etc (see rest of list), Rex delivered a fairly good season. In fact, I would even argue that if Rex goes 9-7 with this talentless team, he deserves consideration as Coach of the Year.

Given these points, how on earth would Jets fans want to get rid of this guy. One can make an argument that he is partly responsible for personnel (including Sanchez). AGREED. One can also say that he has not held all players accountable which may have lead to some locker room problems. AGREED. Regarding the latter point, I see Rex beginning to change that faulty mindset and behavior and hopefully that trend continues. If personnel issues is the perceived reason to fire him then take away some of his personnel authority (although I really feel Tanny is the point person and key person to blame). But firing him would set this franchise back a LONG, LONG time IMO.





Jetman55 wrote: I think we should keep him.  I think the biggest reason we're not a play-off team is a bad choice at QB.  I honesty think that's the biggest difference between 8-8 the last 2 years and 10-6 and having made the play-offs all 4 years.

Now he faces a concern with an aging D (specifically at OLB and S) and lack of depth at o-line.  Jets are going to have to retool.  The good thing is even with the worst (bottom 3rd) QB in the NFL we're an 8-8 team.

You can point your fingers at a lot of weaknesses, but when you're 8-8 with a bottom 3 QB...that says a lot about the quality of his coaching as well as the strength of the rest of the roster.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:34 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Jetman 55, I agreed with most of your points but forgot to address your point about talent of the roster. Just because teams go 8-8 it does not mean that the talent is average - simply that the team performed at an average level. You have to go beyond the record and look at the skill positions and quality of play - if one can deem this Jets team as BA talent (which I definitely agree with) then for Rex to get them to 8-8 or 9-7 is absolutely reflective of great coaching.

One cannot argue that the Jets have no talent, and Rex should be fired, yet they go 9-7 or 8-8. That is not a defensible proposition (I realize 55 that you are not claiming this to be true but others have)

Last edited 12/7/2012 12:35 PM by jetswillsurvive

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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:43 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



cysporsche wrote: How much longer does Rex have on his current contract ? I would keep Rex, but "Clean House" in our coaching area:

1) Hire a football guy as President over Tannenbaum. A Bill Polian or Tom Moore type guy. A football genius who is very well respected in the league, but young enough to handle this job. Agree as long as it isn't either name mentioned.  The Ravens assistant GM is the hottest candidate on the market for 2013 but rumors are he doesn't want to leave.  Money always changes that stance.
2) Demote Tanny to capologist only, no more football decisions. +1
3) Replace Sparano as O.C. immediately. (Norv Turner) Someone who is an offensive genius.+1
4) Replace Westhoff as S.T. coach. He's old grouchy and lost his magic. I can live with 1 more year of Westhoff.
5) Replace Cavanaugh as QB coach (Chad Pennington). +1
6) Replace Mike Pettine as our D.C. because he's tied to rex's hip. Bring in a guy who believes in the 4-3 defense or mixing defenses. This will never happen with Rex as HC...keep dreaming.
7) Replace Dave Deguglielmo as our OL coach because he's tied to Sparano. +1
8) Replace Terry Bradway who runs our draft room. Below average drafts for too long. Wilkerson, Davis, Kerley, Hill, and Ellis all seem like good picks but I wouldn't mind a new guard.
9) Replace Joey Clinksdale over scouting, who left for the Raiders. noideaLet new GM pick, IMO.
10) Replace Mike Devlin as our TE & assistant OL coach. Whoever our new OL coach is gets to pick.

Go Jets...Cyborg
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Posted: 12/7/2012 12:51 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



jetswillsurvive wrote: Jetman 55, I agreed with most of your points but forgot to address your point about talent of the roster. Just because teams go 8-8 it does not mean that the talent is average - simply that the team performed at an average level. You have to go beyond the record and look at the skill positions and quality of play - if one can deem this Jets team as BA talent (which I definitely agree with) then for Rex to get them to 8-8 or 9-7 is absolutely reflective of great coaching.

One cannot argue that the Jets have no talent, and Rex should be fired, yet they go 9-7 or 8-8. That is not a defensible proposition (I realize 55 that you are not claiming this to be true but others have)
How many players on our team are top 5-10?

Revis (easily #1)
Cro
Landry
David Harris
Nick Mangold
D'Brick Ferguson
Wilkerson (easily top 5 3-4 DE, IMO, likely top 3)
Holmes (borderline 10-15)
Keller (borderline 10-15)
Moore (borderline 10-15)

And I like Kerley, Malone, and Davis.

So you think these teams have more talent than the above?

Cleveland
Lions
Jax
KC
Rams
Raiders
Chargers
Eagles
Titans
Cardinals
Bills
Dolphins
Redskins
Vikings
Tampa

IMO, us and the Bengals would be the next 2 teams on that list and maybe we're "tied" with Vikings, Tampa, and Detroit from that list.

I'm telling you, even a moderate improvement at QB, say Tony Romo, would have this team 7-5 right now...without Revis and Holmes.

Last edited 12/7/2012 12:54 PM by Jetman55

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Posted: 12/7/2012 1:10 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


I think we disagree that a team's record is necessarily a good indicator of what a team's talent level is.  It's all about which teams you play and when and where you play them at a give point of the season.  And we have no idea if we're going to finish 8-8 this season.  Let's see Sanchez actually win the games first.  Look at the Jets' roster compared to the worst teams of the league, including the Jags and Browns.  They have better receivers and running backs than us.  We have one of the worst pass rushes in the league.  We don't have one true Pro Bowl talent outside of center.  Tannenbaum's drafts have been awful for the last three years.  Just because the Jets will have a decent enough record and will pick in the middle of the draft because of it, shouldn't fool us and hopefully not the next front office

 

Last edited 12/7/2012 1:13 PM by Kellen11Clemens

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Posted: 12/7/2012 2:17 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



pologroundsjf wrote: I think it's time to give Ryan another year, but I'm on the fence about if he can develop into
a quality head coach - I don't think he is one today.

I also don't know how much of the draft and free agency moves have been Tannenbaum
vs. Rex vs Rex or others.

I think Rex is a very good defensive coach, but I think areas he needs to improve in are:

1) His mouth - I think he talks too much smack when it's not warranted, and gets
opponents putting a target on our team. I know these are pros, and it shouldn't matter,
but I think it does. I also think he's too supportive of his players in general. I think he is
publicly supporting them when they play bad instead of calling them out.

2) Bad loyalty - I think he is loyal to a fault to "his guys" and veterans whether their play merits it or not. Examples of that are certainly Bart Scott, John Connor and IMO now Mark
Sanchez I don't know if it was Rex's decision or not but I think Vladimir Ducasse and last
year's RT (having a brain fart, maybe intentionally), and others.

3) Personnel decisions. I'm not sure how much of these decisions are Ryan's, but I think
the offense has been neglected the last 2-3 years at the expense of trying to maintain
Rex's "top 5 defense". We clearly ignored our RT issue in the draft and FA for 2 years,
and the rest of the OL when going big in the draft and FA for defense. Yes we drafted Hill
(which I'm happy with) and acquired several mediocre player at other offensive positions,
but that is very little compared to going for Wilkerson, Coples, Davis, Ellis, Landry, Bell, Allen, Bush, etc. I won't even get into Tim Tebow, but I'm guessing that was more Woody
than anyone.

4) Accountability for the whole team - he seems to still have the mindset that he's a
defensive coordinator. I don't see him looking to manage his coaches and players for the
offense and specials. And a lot of interviews he seems to talk about how he guarantees that we'll have a top defense, but what about having a very good offense (and Specials,
I love Westhoff, but they've sucked this year).

5) His pressers. This doesn't have anything to do with whether we win or not, but I think
he has regressed into looking like a bumbling idiot as we have been spiraling downward flushed
Great post.

This is a true portrayal of Ryan as a coach.

While we all loved when he came in here and stole the back pages from the Giants for a little bit, it gets old really fast.  I like Rex a lot but I do not think he is a head coach.  He just does not get involved enough in every aspect of the game.  He seems to only care about the defense and really disregards any input on offense.  As a head coach, you need to make decisions on every aspect of the game.  If your team is struggling, instead of saying "I am unaware of what went on" he must say I will make the decisions and put forward a plan.

Last year this happened with Holmes in the last game.  He acted dumbfounded nad like he had no idea what went on.  Like c'mon seriously.  All of Ryans actions are of a defensive coordinator.  He always wants to talk about yards allowed, points against, pressuring the QB and forgets to get into the offensive side abotu protecting the ball, putting up points and putting pressure on opposing defenses.

Look at Belichek, Harbaughs, Coughlin etc.. they make all the decisions for their teams.  If the offense is lacking, they will get in the O coordinators office nad make changes, same thing goes for defense.  There are so many times when Rex just sits to the side as the offense is on the field and you see him really getting involved on defense.  We need a well rounded coach in this regard.

The biggest problem I have with him is his lack of accountability.  Any other head coach would of benched Sancehz a couple of weeks ago.  He is infatuated with him and his ego is too large.  He tries to think he is smarter than other coaches when in fact he is scared to admit that this guy is not the answer.  If a guy is underperforming, he should be held accountable for his actions.  Players make mistakes and they continue to see the field.  A guy has a really good game and Rex and company go back to the veterans who haven't done anything re:Joe McKnight.  This guy has speed and is a weapon, he has a couple of good runs and then never sees the field anymore.  

While I agree that Tanny hasn't helped out with scouting and depth, good coaches and QB's make pleayers better.  They put them in situations to succeed in.

I will give Rex a pass on the year at this point but if he continues to stick with Sanchez for the rest of this year and he is our starter next year, then next year will be the final straw for me.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 2:45 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



cysporsche wrote: How much longer does Rex have on his current contract ? I would keep Rex, but "Clean House" in our coaching area:

1) Hire a football guy as President over Tannenbaum. A Bill Polian or Tom Moore type guy. A football genius who is very well respected in the league, but young enough to handle this job.
2) Demote Tanny to capologist only, no more football decisions.
3) Replace Sparano as O.C. immediately. (Norv Turner) Someone who is an offensive genius.
4) Replace Westhoff as S.T. coach. He's old grouchy and lost his magic.
5) Replace Cavanaugh as QB coach (Chad Pennington).
6) Replace Mike Pettine as our D.C. because he's tied to rex's hip. Bring in a guy who believes in the 4-3 defense or mixing defenses.
7) Replace Dave Deguglielmo as our OL coach because he's tied to Sparano.
8) Replace Terry Bradway who runs our draft room. Below average drafts for too long.
9) Replace Joey Clinksdale over scouting, who left for the Raiders.
10) Replace Mike Devlin as our TE & assistant OL coach.

Go Jets...Cyborg
disagree about Westoff- He has no one on St's anymore. Wallace Wright, Diggs, Trufant, Brad Smith, all gone or hurt. Right now there are only 3 guys making tackles on teams Schillens, Bellore and Davis.... that's it !
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Posted: 12/7/2012 3:06 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



marac wrote:
cysporsche wrote: How much longer does Rex have on his current contract ? I would keep Rex, but "Clean House" in our coaching area:

1) Hire a football guy as President over Tannenbaum. A Bill Polian or Tom Moore type guy. A football genius who is very well respected in the league, but young enough to handle this job.
2) Demote Tanny to capologist only, no more football decisions.
3) Replace Sparano as O.C. immediately. (Norv Turner) Someone who is an offensive genius.
4) Replace Westhoff as S.T. coach. He's old grouchy and lost his magic.
5) Replace Cavanaugh as QB coach (Chad Pennington).
6) Replace Mike Pettine as our D.C. because he's tied to rex's hip. Bring in a guy who believes in the 4-3 defense or mixing defenses.
7) Replace Dave Deguglielmo as our OL coach because he's tied to Sparano.
8) Replace Terry Bradway who runs our draft room. Below average drafts for too long.
9) Replace Joey Clinksdale over scouting, who left for the Raiders.
10) Replace Mike Devlin as our TE & assistant OL coach.

Go Jets...Cyborg
disagree about Westoff- He has no one on St's anymore. Wallace Wright, Diggs, Trufant, Brad Smith, all gone or hurt. Right now there are only 3 guys making tackles on teams Schillens, Bellore and Davis.... that's it !
Muaga got injured several weeks back(on IR now) and that hurt as well.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 3:42 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Rex is here to stay. As for our draft picks under Tanny that is still yet to be determined. I think he's done a solid job with the late 1st round draft picks he has had. Lowry, has played in every game since being drafted and has held his own starting in place of Revis. Big Mo has started every game since since rookie year and is becoming one of the best ends in the league. Coples, Hill and Davis have flashed this season. If I blame Tanny for anything it's his failure to bring in a capable backup to challenge or even come in th game when Sanchez needed a benching long ago...having a capable backup is something we didn't have as far back as Pennington so it should be a priority this off-season.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:03 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Rex has shown he's a good coach, and I think we've seen him mature as a coach.. He's still confident, he's just not running his mouth as much.. Of course everything Rex says gets in a paper or blown up.. Ask Carolina if the want John Fox back.. Lets just work on getting better players, and support our coach..

They either need to commit to this new OC and get players that fit his system or they need to move on..

I see a lot of folks suggesting we go def for our first two picks in the draft.. Our number one priority has to be improving the o-line, followed by a true star RB.. !!! After that lets look at the def..
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Posted: 12/7/2012 4:18 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Agree on the OL. Don't think we will be in a position to get an elite pass rusher but getting Warmack as some have suggested would be great. Since Dbrick/Mangold were drafted the leftside has been dominant when LG was very good.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 5:49 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Here's a stumper. What exactly does Rex do well as a head coach? Not as a DC, but as a head coach. Try and list them. The question is harder than you think at first glance.

This Rex quote from the pre-season should get you started in your thinking, "This is the best team that I've had since I've been here."

So, with everyone that's saying that this team is lacking talent, it means either, A) They are way smarter than Rex, and see something that he does not, or, B) Rex is a likeable but clueless HC and a poor talent evaluator. It has to be one or the other.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 5:59 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 



gojetz wrote: Here's a stumper. What exactly does Rex do well as a head coach? Not as a DC, but as a head coach. Try and list them. The question is harder than you think at first glance.

This Rex quote from the pre-season should get you started in your thinking, "This is the best team that I've had since I've been here."

So, with everyone that's saying that this team is lacking talent, it means either, A) They are way smarter than Rex, and see something that he does not, or, B) Rex is a likeable but clueless HC and a poor talent evaluator. It has to be one or the other.
He said most talented, not best team. He went on to say he has no idea how that translates to win/loss record. I can see why he would make that statement adding Landry, Coples, Hill, and Davis. Ryan also expected big jumps from Wilkerson, Kerely and other young players.




Once again, if we win out, we're 9-7 and that's without Revis and Holmes. Ryan wasn't counting on losing those two for the season or Sanchez completely imploding.


No, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
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Posted: 12/7/2012 6:18 PM

Re: A defense of Rex Ryan 


Ryan's Negatives:    Big mouth that is counter-productive and not focusing on offense enough

Ryan's Postives:      Everything else
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