Once again a big thx to Gordon!!!

coggs wrote: Thanks Gordon.  I say let mcKenzie go(this is a tough one I would say it depends on the draft.), Osi I say you have to let him go((I agree with Gordon here if we can have him with incentives to stay on the field it would be awesome.).  He is a pass-rush specialist and is always hurt.  I know he is effective when he plays, but he has to play.   Jacobs needs to be released(for the most part I agree, we should draft a HB in round 1 or 2 if a good one is available. Bradshaw is not the answer he is always injured).  Are there any cap hits on Osi and Jacobs if they cut them?(with our cap the way it is the last thing we should do is cut anyone, the cap hits alone can kill a team. I could understand MCk and even Jacobs (depending on the draft.) but if we Cut Osi that means a DE in an early round.. it is the Giants formula and actually has worked...IM more interested in knowing what Austins recovery has been and if he being 2 years removed from football can do...)

I was thinking about Cruz.  He is going to want to get paid, and might even hold out(Cruz does not seem to be the type to hold  out he will want to be paid, and I think he will be paid, hopefully by us.).  I definitely bid farewell to Manningham(Im not sure he will be gone. Keeping our Receivers together is important. I just don't see many teams willing to pay big on Manningham. And Eli and him do a 20+ cornor fade RT like no other... lets face it, He lays out.) He just doesnt seem like he is on the same page with Eli and he is just not the sharpest tool in the shed and has become expendable with the emergence of Cruz.( I agree but unless Jerrigan can emerge ahead of him, I'm not sure we want to let him go. One thing is evident, BARDEN is NOT the answer.)

Goff I keep, but only on the cheap.  I just do not think he is a starter on a good D, at best he is the weak link on a good D, but as a back-up if the price is right(depends on the draft Ideally we need a OL, RB, and MLB in the draft and thats only if we can keep some of our core guys togeather..).  Thomas you have to re-sign, but coming off that injury he will have to take a little less than he may have envisioned.(that injury is why Ross actually needs to be a priority, Ideally we wanted Prince to replace Ross but with Princes misque's on Def. Ross has emerged. Also, remember there was talk of Ross playing ouside and TT playing slot. THERE is a reason Rolle is playing slot. CB's who can be serviceable are hard to come by let alone lock down. )

Weatherford has been very good, need to keep him(I Agree).  Tollefson has been a good depth guy, shouldnt cost much(This is where we might say goodbye cap casualty if the cap remains 120 the giants might be rebuilding  and dismantling a SB caliber team when healthy. ),  Ballard has been better than expected, keep him too(this is the priority other than Cruz).  The rest in that group you bring back only as depth guys if you can't find/draft an equivalent player for cheaper(Equivalent to what standard is the real question. remember, these guys know the system.)

soullessnight wrote:

coggs wrote: Thanks Gordon.  I say let mcKenzie go(this is a tough one I would say it depends on the draft.), Osi I say you have to let him go((I agree with Gordon here if we can have him with incentives to stay on the field it would be awesome.).  He is a pass-rush specialist and is always hurt.  I know he is effective when he plays, but he has to play.   Jacobs needs to be released(for the most part I agree, we should draft a HB in round 1 or 2 if a good one is available. Bradshaw is not the answer he is always injured).  Are there any cap hits on Osi and Jacobs if they cut them?(with our cap the way it is the last thing we should do is cut anyone, the cap hits alone can kill a team. I could understand MCk and even Jacobs (depending on the draft.) but if we Cut Osi that means a DE in an early round.. it is the Giants formula and actually has worked...IM more interested in knowing what Austins recovery has been and if he being 2 years removed from football can do...)

I was thinking about Cruz.  He is going to want to get paid, and might even hold out(Cruz does not seem to be the type to hold  out he will want to be paid, and I think he will be paid, hopefully by us.).  I definitely bid farewell to Manningham(Im not sure he will be gone. Keeping our Receivers together is important. I just don't see many teams willing to pay big on Manningham. And Eli and him do a 20+ cornor fade RT like no other... lets face it, He lays out.) He just doesnt seem like he is on the same page with Eli and he is just not the sharpest tool in the shed and has become expendable with the emergence of Cruz.( I agree but unless Jerrigan can emerge ahead of him, I'm not sure we want to let him go. One thing is evident, BARDEN is NOT the answer.)

Goff I keep, but only on the cheap.  I just do not think he is a starter on a good D, at best he is the weak link on a good D, but as a back-up if the price is right(depends on the draft Ideally we need a OL, RB, and MLB in the draft and thats only if we can keep some of our core guys togeather..).  Thomas you have to re-sign, but coming off that injury he will have to take a little less than he may have envisioned.(that injury is why Ross actually needs to be a priority, Ideally we wanted Prince to replace Ross but with Princes misque's on Def. Ross has emerged. Also, remember there was talk of Ross playing ouside and TT playing slot. THERE is a reason Rolle is playing slot. CB's who can be serviceable are hard to come by let alone lock down. )

Weatherford has been very good, need to keep him(I Agree).  Tollefson has been a good depth guy, shouldnt cost much(This is where we might say goodbye cap casualty if the cap remains 120 the giants might be rebuilding  and dismantling a SB caliber team when healthy. ),  Ballard has been better than expected, keep him too(this is the priority other than Cruz).  The rest in that group you bring back only as depth guys if you can't find/draft an equivalent player for cheaper(Equivalent to what standard is the real question. remember, these guys know the system.)

I believe the Giants have ALOT to think about this off season, and also have alot of hard decisions to make. Lets face it Ideally we keep 90% of these guys, but we are CAP screwed under the new CBA.

What I find amazing is that under the old CBA the giants were in a great position, while the eagles and cowboys were in a similar situation. BUT, under the new CBA, the giants are completely screwed much like the raiders were under the old CBA.

I'm not even close to being a cap expert, but what is the major difference between the old and new CBA that caused this? What is being evaluated higher that wasn't before?

coggs wrote:

soullessnight wrote:

coggs wrote: Thanks Gordon.  I say let mcKenzie go(this is a tough one I would say it depends on the draft.), Osi I say you have to let him go((I agree with Gordon here if we can have him with incentives to stay on the field it would be awesome.).  He is a pass-rush specialist and is always hurt.  I know he is effective when he plays, but he has to play.   Jacobs needs to be released(for the most part I agree, we should draft a HB in round 1 or 2 if a good one is available. Bradshaw is not the answer he is always injured).  Are there any cap hits on Osi and Jacobs if they cut them?(with our cap the way it is the last thing we should do is cut anyone, the cap hits alone can kill a team. I could understand MCk and even Jacobs (depending on the draft.) but if we Cut Osi that means a DE in an early round.. it is the Giants formula and actually has worked...IM more interested in knowing what Austins recovery has been and if he being 2 years removed from football can do...)

I was thinking about Cruz.  He is going to want to get paid, and might even hold out(Cruz does not seem to be the type to hold  out he will want to be paid, and I think he will be paid, hopefully by us.).  I definitely bid farewell to Manningham(Im not sure he will be gone. Keeping our Receivers together is important. I just don't see many teams willing to pay big on Manningham. And Eli and him do a 20+ cornor fade RT like no other... lets face it, He lays out.) He just doesnt seem like he is on the same page with Eli and he is just not the sharpest tool in the shed and has become expendable with the emergence of Cruz.( I agree but unless Jerrigan can emerge ahead of him, I'm not sure we want to let him go. One thing is evident, BARDEN is NOT the answer.)

Goff I keep, but only on the cheap.  I just do not think he is a starter on a good D, at best he is the weak link on a good D, but as a back-up if the price is right(depends on the draft Ideally we need a OL, RB, and MLB in the draft and thats only if we can keep some of our core guys togeather..).  Thomas you have to re-sign, but coming off that injury he will have to take a little less than he may have envisioned.(that injury is why Ross actually needs to be a priority, Ideally we wanted Prince to replace Ross but with Princes misque's on Def. Ross has emerged. Also, remember there was talk of Ross playing ouside and TT playing slot. THERE is a reason Rolle is playing slot. CB's who can be serviceable are hard to come by let alone lock down. )

Weatherford has been very good, need to keep him(I Agree).  Tollefson has been a good depth guy, shouldnt cost much(This is where we might say goodbye cap casualty if the cap remains 120 the giants might be rebuilding  and dismantling a SB caliber team when healthy. ),  Ballard has been better than expected, keep him too(this is the priority other than Cruz).  The rest in that group you bring back only as depth guys if you can't find/draft an equivalent player for cheaper(Equivalent to what standard is the real question. remember, these guys know the system.)

I believe the Giants have ALOT to think about this off season, and also have alot of hard decisions to make. Lets face it Ideally we keep 90% of these guys, but we are CAP screwed under the new CBA.

What I find amazing is that under the old CBA the giants were in a great position, while the eagles and cowboys were in a similar situation. BUT, under the new CBA, the giants are completely screwed much like the raiders were under the old CBA.

I'm not even close to being a cap expert, but what is the major difference between the old and new CBA that caused this? What is being evaluated higher that wasn't before?

mckenzie is a fa after the season, so no cap hit on him.  I do see what you are saying about dead money being a problem if they are up against the cap to begin with. 

Problem with Manningham is he seems to run the wrong route at least once a game,  and is very inconsistent in my eyes.  Not sure Eli trusts him.  I understand wanting a 3rd receiver, but we never thought Cruz would replace and surpass Smith the way he has, and truth is they could probably get Smith back for cheap, if he gets healthy.  He signed a 1 year deal in Philly. 

I am not a fan of taking RB's in the first round.  RB's are a dime a dozen and you can get better value in later rounds.  I'd rather draft an OL or LB in the first rounds.  Giants have done well with later round rb's, tiki was a 2nd, jacobs a 4th, bradshaw a 7th, think ward was a 7th.

hcgiles wrote: Isn't Eli entering a point in his contract where the Ginats could restructure his deal and help with some cap savings?

soullessnight wrote:

coggs wrote:

soullessnight wrote:

coggs wrote: Thanks Gordon.  I say let mcKenzie go(this is a tough one I would say it depends on the draft.), Osi I say you have to let him go((I agree with Gordon here if we can have him with incentives to stay on the field it would be awesome.).  He is a pass-rush specialist and is always hurt.  I know he is effective when he plays, but he has to play.   Jacobs needs to be released(for the most part I agree, we should draft a HB in round 1 or 2 if a good one is available. Bradshaw is not the answer he is always injured).  Are there any cap hits on Osi and Jacobs if they cut them?(with our cap the way it is the last thing we should do is cut anyone, the cap hits alone can kill a team. I could understand MCk and even Jacobs (depending on the draft.) but if we Cut Osi that means a DE in an early round.. it is the Giants formula and actually has worked...IM more interested in knowing what Austins recovery has been and if he being 2 years removed from football can do...)

I was thinking about Cruz.  He is going to want to get paid, and might even hold out(Cruz does not seem to be the type to hold  out he will want to be paid, and I think he will be paid, hopefully by us.).  I definitely bid farewell to Manningham(Im not sure he will be gone. Keeping our Receivers together is important. I just don't see many teams willing to pay big on Manningham. And Eli and him do a 20+ cornor fade RT like no other... lets face it, He lays out.) He just doesnt seem like he is on the same page with Eli and he is just not the sharpest tool in the shed and has become expendable with the emergence of Cruz.( I agree but unless Jerrigan can emerge ahead of him, I'm not sure we want to let him go. One thing is evident, BARDEN is NOT the answer.)

Goff I keep, but only on the cheap.  I just do not think he is a starter on a good D, at best he is the weak link on a good D, but as a back-up if the price is right(depends on the draft Ideally we need a OL, RB, and MLB in the draft and thats only if we can keep some of our core guys togeather..).  Thomas you have to re-sign, but coming off that injury he will have to take a little less than he may have envisioned.(that injury is why Ross actually needs to be a priority, Ideally we wanted Prince to replace Ross but with Princes misque's on Def. Ross has emerged. Also, remember there was talk of Ross playing ouside and TT playing slot. THERE is a reason Rolle is playing slot. CB's who can be serviceable are hard to come by let alone lock down. )

Weatherford has been very good, need to keep him(I Agree).  Tollefson has been a good depth guy, shouldnt cost much(This is where we might say goodbye cap casualty if the cap remains 120 the giants might be rebuilding  and dismantling a SB caliber team when healthy. ),  Ballard has been better than expected, keep him too(this is the priority other than Cruz).  The rest in that group you bring back only as depth guys if you can't find/draft an equivalent player for cheaper(Equivalent to what standard is the real question. remember, these guys know the system.)

I believe the Giants have ALOT to think about this off season, and also have alot of hard decisions to make. Lets face it Ideally we keep 90% of these guys, but we are CAP screwed under the new CBA.

What I find amazing is that under the old CBA the giants were in a great position, while the eagles and cowboys were in a similar situation. BUT, under the new CBA, the giants are completely screwed much like the raiders were under the old CBA.

I'm not even close to being a cap expert, but what is the major difference between the old and new CBA that caused this? What is being evaluated higher that wasn't before?

mckenzie is a fa after the season, so no cap hit on him.  I do see what you are saying about dead money being a problem if they are up against the cap to begin with. 

Problem with Manningham is he seems to run the wrong route at least once a game,  and is very inconsistent in my eyes.  Not sure Eli trusts him.  I understand wanting a 3rd receiver, but we never thought Cruz would replace and surpass Smith the way he has, and truth is they could probably get Smith back for cheap, if he gets healthy.  He signed a 1 year deal in Philly. 

I am not a fan of taking RB's in the first round.  RB's are a dime a dozen and you can get better value in later rounds.  I'd rather draft an OL or LB in the first rounds.  Giants have done well with later round rb's, tiki was a 2nd, jacobs a 4th, bradshaw a 7th, think ward was a 7th.

I agree with the RB. They can be had in the 4th, and 7th and so on. But, I want a Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson. We get that on the team and it wont matter if we can stop the run. As long as we get to the QB we will be ok.

One thing to remember as far as reinforcements, although it’s not directly cap related.  The Giants had to IR a lot of guys early in the year who will come back and contribute.  Austin, Thomas, and even Prince was less than what he could have been with no training camp and the injury.

RTPGiants wrote: I still say it's time to pick up a veteran FA RB. We'll have Bradshaw, Ware (he's not a FA) and Scott on the team already, so go pick up a bruiser type. Earnest Graham perhaps or maybe Thomas Jones if we think he has anything left.