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Preseason football

Posted: 8/19/2014 9:33 AM

Preseason football 


OK...there are quite a bit of hesitant doomsday posts..,.a lot of "I know it is preseason, but..." conversations going on.

The thing about preseason is that it says absolutely nothing about the regular season.  There are a few things to consider:

1) The offense is not showing most of their plays.  McAdoo has stated that we are not seeing the entire offense during these preseason games.
2) Supposedly they are looking significantly better in practice than in the preseason games, which brings me to my last point:
3) The offense is primarily working on plays that are more "questionable."  The coaches want to see how some plays that are not going to be their core are going to work.  It may be things they know are borderline in making the playbook.  It may be some things that aren't looking great in practice that they want to work out the kinks on.  Or most likely, it may not matter what the actual play is, but they are working on timing and cadence of the snap.

When it comes down to it, preseason games are nothing more than glorified practices.  The coaches are still determining what they want to do in the season.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:11 AM

Re: Preseason football 


I know, plus they're undefeated in the preseason games so far. Everything is fine. Coach Coughlin needs to back off and trust the offense. tongue
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:53 AM

Re: Preseason football 


Practice is practice, and nothing like real combat in a real game. I know many a team that has terrific practices and then when the real action starts, they look like a hapless bunch of players trying to pretend to be a real NFL team.

I do agree that we haven't shown squat of what this new offense will look like. We haven't even tried many of the things that this new offense will call their bread and butter.

But what worries me is still the poor play of the OL. We have one guy who can run block but not pass block, then we have the next guy who can pass block but can't run block worth a damn. Is that going to change once the regular season gets underway?. I really don't think so. Right now they are looking for the best combination to start a season and so far have come up with nothing vaguely resembling an NFL quality OL.

This is what irks me to no end, is  this put a finger in the dyke approach that Reese takes, trying to fix something that needs an entire overhaul. The team will suffer from this philosophy until they realize you simply cannot patch it, it need to be torn down and replaced with something that will last for 10 years.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:58 AM

Re: Preseason football 



NewYawka wrote: OK...there are quite a bit of hesitant doomsday posts..,.a lot of "I know it is preseason, but..." conversations going on.

The thing about preseason is that it says absolutely nothing about the regular season.  There are a few things to consider:

1) The offense is not showing most of their plays.  McAdoo has stated that we are not seeing the entire offense during these preseason games.
2) Supposedly they are looking significantly better in practice than in the preseason games, which brings me to my last point:
3) The offense is primarily working on plays that are more "questionable."  The coaches want to see how some plays that are not going to be their core are going to work.  It may be things they know are borderline in making the playbook.  It may be some things that aren't looking great in practice that they want to work out the kinks on.  Or most likely, it may not matter what the actual play is, but they are working on timing and cadence of the snap.

When it comes down to it, preseason games are nothing more than glorified practices.  The coaches are still determining what they want to do in the season.
I am trying to get a copy of this post to Tom Coughlin. A man with decades of coaching experience, 2 Super Bowl wins, and most likely a future HOFer. He really needs to settle down! He's so upset and, as you pointed out, it's "nothing but glorified practices". We should definitely ignore the HC. Saying how concerned he is, threatening to keep the starters in the last preseaon game until they "get it", saying how unacceptable this has been. Big worrywart, is all he is. He clearly doesn't understand that all the pieces will fall together right before kickoff of the first game. banghead
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Posted: 8/19/2014 11:14 AM

Re: Preseason football 


It’s obvious, I think we got to work on a lot of things,’’ Coughlin said. “We got to basically work on everything. Last night we didn’t run it, we certainly didn’t throw the ball with any consistency, we don’t have people that are definitely running open, our protection does break down from time to time and we don’t react well under pressure when we do realize there has to be a hot or a sight adjust involved and just getting the ball out of the quarterback’s hand and trying to accomplish a positive play in the face of the pressure.’’


Glorified practice.


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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:20 PM

Re: Preseason football 


I am one of the "I know it's preseason but"  people.  I am waiting for the Jets game to decide if I get  officially worried or back to cautiously optimistic about this season.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:42 PM

Re: Preseason football 



dweez115 wrote:
NewYawka wrote: OK...there are quite a bit of hesitant doomsday posts..,.a lot of "I know it is preseason, but..." conversations going on.

The thing about preseason is that it says absolutely nothing about the regular season.  There are a few things to consider:

1) The offense is not showing most of their plays.  McAdoo has stated that we are not seeing the entire offense during these preseason games.
2) Supposedly they are looking significantly better in practice than in the preseason games, which brings me to my last point:
3) The offense is primarily working on plays that are more "questionable."  The coaches want to see how some plays that are not going to be their core are going to work.  It may be things they know are borderline in making the playbook.  It may be some things that aren't looking great in practice that they want to work out the kinks on.  Or most likely, it may not matter what the actual play is, but they are working on timing and cadence of the snap.

When it comes down to it, preseason games are nothing more than glorified practices.  The coaches are still determining what they want to do in the season.
I am trying to get a copy of this post to Tom Coughlin. A man with decades of coaching experience, 2 Super Bowl wins, and most likely a future HOFer. He really needs to settle down! He's so upset and, as you pointed out, it's "nothing but glorified practices". We should definitely ignore the HC. Saying how concerned he is, threatening to keep the starters in the last preseaon game until they "get it", saying how unacceptable this has been. Big worrywart, is all he is. He clearly doesn't understand that all the pieces will fall together right before kickoff of the first game. banghead
Now I do not believe that I ever said that "all the pieces will fall together right before kickoff of the first game".  In fact, I didn't opine either way of how this team will do once the games started.  I am hopeful, but either way, I put zero stock into the results of preseason football.

And the preseason has always been glorified practices.  They are scrimmages.  They are there to hone your gameplan, get a bit of game experience, determine your player combinations and finalize your roster.  A good coaching staff uses that time to get the starters ready for the speed of the regular season without using much of their actual gameplan.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:46 PM

Re: Preseason football 



dweez115 wrote: It’s obvious, I think we got to work on a lot of things,’’ Coughlin said. “We got to basically work on everything. Last night we didn’t run it, we certainly didn’t throw the ball with any consistency, we don’t have people that are definitely running open, our protection does break down from time to time and we don’t react well under pressure when we do realize there has to be a hot or a sight adjust involved and just getting the ball out of the quarterback’s hand and trying to accomplish a positive play in the face of the pressure.’’


Glorified practice.


Would you expect Coughlin to come out and say "It's only preseason...it doesn't matter"?  Of course not!  He needs to motivate his team.  Make sure they are constantly working to play better.

Does that mean there aren't things he feels they need to work on?  Again, of course not!  I'm sure from his perspective, they need to work on everything because at this point in the preseason, they are not yet ready...like most every other team.

I just don't understand how anyone can expect any team to be in midseason form (however good or bad that will ultimately be) in August.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:55 PM

Re: Preseason football 





---------------------------------------------
--- DocGooden wrote:

I know, plus they're undefeated in the preseason games so far. Everything is fine. Coach Coughlin needs to back off and trust the offense. tongue

---------------------------------------------

If preseason means nothing than being undefeated in preseason would also mean nothing I would assume. However I'd rather look good and lose every game than look like garbage and win em all. It all boils down to how you evaluate it. Coughlin is spot on, they need to get it together asap. Nothing is fine now and I wouldn't expect a miraculous change come week one unless we start to see some improvement soon. At this point going forward things may start to click, or the wheels may fall off and things might go south really fast. That being said there is no reason to freak out yet, but I'm definitely worried by what we have seen to this point. With a new offense and so many new players I'm not really surprised. I just hope we see some signs of life before we dig ourselves into a hole we can't get out of come mid season
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Posted: 8/19/2014 12:56 PM

Re: Preseason football 


People say I am being hypocritical about preseason so I'll set the record straight on how I view it, once and for all (listening Dweez?).

They are scrimmages. There is no game planning involved. They mean nothing with regard to how the team will perform in the upcoming season. Now...with THAT said, they do offer insight into players' potential. What I am talking about here are the young guys, more specifically the rookies. These are the guys that are fighting for a roster spot and/or getting their first taste of action at the NFL level. When evaluating talent and potential, there is obviously nowhere else to look with rookies then practices and preseason games. The truth is that most of these rookies and young guys will not see the field a whole lot once the REAL games begin. Veterans will see the field and the coaches already know what to expect from those guys. That is why they do not see much playing time in preseason.

So yes preseason games hold value. They allow young guys and guys that are fighting for a roster spot the opportunity to showcase what they can do. They also are vital for veteran players to get used to NFL action again, to get their bodies used to playing football and hitting, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, running routes, covering receivers, etc. But they are in absolutely no way any indication of how a team will do once the regular season begins. There have been so many seasons where the Giants look dreadful and people on here are screaming and yelling for heads to roll and then once the season starts the team looks completely different. There have been preseasons where the team looked pretty good and offered us all hope, only to play very bad football once the regular season started. So I have learned my lesson and learned it well: the preseason gives you no indication of how the team will do in the regular season.

I hope this clears it all up. And...yes the Giants first and second teamers have looked pretty bad. They are running a new offense. There are a lot of new players on this roster and they have to gel. There are a lot of questions marks with this team and a lot of concerns. That is why I do not think the Giants are going to be a good team this year. Not because of how they look in preseason but how the team appears as a whole. I hope I'm wrong and the team makes the playoffs, but if it does I will be very surprised. And I will root for them regardless as I am a Giants fan through and through.

Good teams rely on their stars,
Great teams rely on each other.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:11 PM

Re: Preseason football 



NewYawka wrote:
 
Now I do not believe that I ever said that "all the pieces will fall together right before kickoff of the first game".  In fact, I didn't opine either way of how this team will do once the games started.  I am hopeful, but either way, I put zero stock into the results of preseason football.

And the preseason has always been glorified practices.  They are scrimmages.  They are there to hone your gameplan, get a bit of game experience, determine your player combinations and finalize your roster.  A good coaching staff uses that time to get the starters ready for the speed of the regular season without using much of their actual gameplan.
The Head Coach, respectfully, disagrees. My money is on him understanding the issue better than you. No offense, but he knows exactly what he's looking for and it's pretty obvious he isn't enjoying what he seeing.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:15 PM

Re: Preseason football 



NewYawka wrote:
 
Would you expect Coughlin to come out and say "It's only preseason...it doesn't matter"?  Of course not!  He needs to motivate his team.  Make sure they are constantly working to play better.

Does that mean there aren't things he feels they need to work on?  Again, of course not!  I'm sure from his perspective, they need to work on everything because at this point in the preseason, they are not yet ready...like most every other team.

I just don't understand how anyone can expect any team to be in midseason form (however good or bad that will ultimately be) in August.
Show me another season where Coughlin had to threaten to make the starters play deep into the last game and I'll buy into your argument. As for being in midseason form, you are joking, aren't you? The Fort Lee High School team is looking sharper right now than the Giants. Midseason? They don't even look like they've gone to camp. Most of them look like they should be on IR.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:33 PM

Re: Preseason football 



leagued wrote: People say I am being hypocritical about preseason so I'll set the record straight on how I view it, once and for all (listening Dweez?).

They are scrimmages. There is no game planning involved. They mean nothing with regard to how the team will perform in the upcoming season. Now...with THAT said, they do offer insight into players' potential. What I am talking about here are the young guys, more specifically the rookies. These are the guys that are fighting for a roster spot and/or getting their first taste of action at the NFL level. When evaluating talent and potential, there is obviously nowhere else to look with rookies then practices and preseason games. The truth is that most of these rookies and young guys will not see the field a whole lot once the REAL games begin. Veterans will see the field and the coaches already know what to expect from those guys. That is why they do not see much playing time in preseason.

So yes preseason games hold value. They allow young guys and guys that are fighting for a roster spot the opportunity to showcase what they can do. They also are vital for veteran players to get used to NFL action again, to get their bodies used to playing football and hitting, blocking, tackling, catching, throwing, running routes, covering receivers, etc. But they are in absolutely no way any indication of how a team will do once the regular season begins. There have been so many seasons where the Giants look dreadful and people on here are screaming and yelling for heads to roll and then once the season starts the team looks completely different. There have been preseasons where the team looked pretty good and offered us all hope, only to play very bad football once the regular season started. So I have learned my lesson and learned it well: the preseason gives you no indication of how the team will do in the regular season.

I hope this clears it all up. And...yes the Giants first and second teamers have looked pretty bad. They are running a new offense. There are a lot of new players on this roster and they have to gel. There are a lot of questions marks with this team and a lot of concerns. That is why I do not think the Giants are going to be a good team this year. Not because of how they look in preseason but how the team appears as a whole. I hope I'm wrong and the team makes the playoffs, but if it does I will be very surprised. And I will root for them regardless as I am a Giants fan through and through.
No, leagued, we are pointing out that you are being hypocritical by playing down preseason issues ONLY when they apply to the Giants. As for the win-loss record, I could care less. In fact, I remember being really annoyed with Parcells drive to win every preseason game because one of the starters got hurt in the last preseason game. I couldn't help but think what a waste that was. I would not care if the Giants lost a preseason game 56-7, as long as the starters looked good and that 7 points came from them. As you alluded to, once the starters leave the field, the rest of the game is really just a series of job interviews for the guys trying to make the team. But it is how awful the starters have looked, and how upset Coughlin is, that is really bothering me. This Eli's 10th season. Are you aware that he has never had less than two completions in a preseason game until now? And it has now been two games in a row that he has failed to complete 2 passes. Is it all Eli's fault? No! He hit Jernigan right in the numbers. Unfortunately, those numbers were on the back of Jernigan's jersey. Again, the wins could not be less important to me. But when the offense looks this abysmal, and Coughlin is making threats he has never made in the past, well, I think it's perfectly legitimate to be concerned. Let's remember they just played a Pittsburgh team with many of the same problems the Giants have. Which of the two teams looked ready for the regular season? We played Indy with the entire interior of their O line missing. Luck still carved us up. The problem with saying, "It's just preseason" is that time is running short. Very soon, it will not be preseason anymore. And once that excuse is gone, what do we have? A pretty solid Detroit team that loves to hit the QB with two of their top DL players in the last year of their contract waiting to drive Eli into the ground. I have to wonder if Eli makes it through the first game.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:45 PM

Re: Preseason football 



dweez115 wrote:
NewYawka wrote:
 
Now I do not believe that I ever said that "all the pieces will fall together right before kickoff of the first game".  In fact, I didn't opine either way of how this team will do once the games started.  I am hopeful, but either way, I put zero stock into the results of preseason football.

And the preseason has always been glorified practices.  They are scrimmages.  They are there to hone your gameplan, get a bit of game experience, determine your player combinations and finalize your roster.  A good coaching staff uses that time to get the starters ready for the speed of the regular season without using much of their actual gameplan.
The Head Coach, respectfully, disagrees. My money is on him understanding the issue better than you. No offense, but he knows exactly what he's looking for and it's pretty obvious he isn't enjoying what he seeing.
So what was the question that Coughlin was asked that led to that response?  Was it something along the lines of "The team didn't look great out there...what do you have to do to get ready for the season?"  If so, then his response was pretty straight forward.  They do have a lot to work on.  Or did he just volunteer this information in a rage about how the play in preseason is a direct predictor of the final standings in the regular season?

I'll just let you enjoy your ulcer stressing over the preseason.

I'll relax and enjoy the rest of the summer waiting for the actual season to start.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:48 PM

Re: Preseason football 


Dweez, I think one difference between you and I is that you are holding out hope for a good year. I am not. I expect a losing Giants team this season. There is just too much turnover, too many question marks for me to feel that this team is going to make the playoffs or even have a winning record. Certainly I can be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) and I hope that I am as I enjoy watching good quality football. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen. I think the defense should be a solid defense much like last year, maybe even better, but I think the offense is going to really struggle, especially the first half of the season.

I guess that's why I'm not panicking about the struggles of the starters. But there is a SMALL part of me that thinks there's a chance that the offense could be better than its shown so far because once the regular season starts they'll be game-planning and no longer holding back their new offense from teams. The defense will also be a lot more aggressive and using schemes in the regular season. So....yeah part of me is still holding out some small hope I guess, but ultimately I don't think this is a good team. That is why I'm not mad about what I've seen so far. I expected them to struggle.

Good teams rely on their stars,
Great teams rely on each other.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:14 PM

Re: Preseason football 



NewYawka wrote:
 
So what was the question that Coughlin was asked that led to that response?  Was it something along the lines of "The team didn't look great out there...what do you have to do to get ready for the season?"  If so, then his response was pretty straight forward.  They do have a lot to work on.  Or did he just volunteer this information in a rage about how the play in preseason is a direct predictor of the final standings in the regular season?

I'll just let you enjoy your ulcer stressing over the preseason.

I'll relax and enjoy the rest of the summer waiting for the actual season to start.
I have NO idea what you are talking about re: the question that Coughlin was asked and why that even relates. You lost me. As for ulcer, hardly an issue. My job at the hospital is to work with kids, some as young as 6, that attempted suicide. Giants are a fun distraction. I just enjoy discussing the game with those that show some understanding of it.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:17 PM

Re: Preseason football 



leagued wrote: Dweez, I think one difference between you and I is that you are holding out hope for a good year. I am not. I expect a losing Giants team this season. There is just too much turnover, too many question marks for me to feel that this team is going to make the playoffs or even have a winning record. Certainly I can be wrong (it wouldn't be the first time) and I hope that I am as I enjoy watching good quality football. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen. I think the defense should be a solid defense much like last year, maybe even better, but I think the offense is going to really struggle, especially the first half of the season.

I guess that's why I'm not panicking about the struggles of the starters. But there is a SMALL part of me that thinks there's a chance that the offense could be better than its shown so far because once the regular season starts they'll be game-planning and no longer holding back their new offense from teams. The defense will also be a lot more aggressive and using schemes in the regular season. So....yeah part of me is still holding out some small hope I guess, but ultimately I don't think this is a good team. That is why I'm not mad about what I've seen so far. I expected them to struggle.
Well, that's valid. Because I was expecting an improvement over last year. Not playoffs and, certainly, not Super Bowl, but an improvement. My rationale was the O line could not play much worse. Now, I have to wonder if they are trying to prove that assumption wrong. tongue
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:35 PM

Re: Preseason football 



dweez115 wrote:
I have NO idea what you are talking about re: the question that Coughlin was asked and why that even relates. You lost me. 
Any quote has to be taken in context.  Otherwise, you can pick any person and find something that they have said to make your point.

If Coughlin got up to a microphone and immediately started ranting about his team, that is different than a reporter asking him why his team was bad.  I wouldn't expect him to contradict the reporter and say "What are you talking about?  We were great out there."  His tone also makes a difference.  Was he angry?  Was he distraught?  All contextual aspects that are important.

Also, Coughlin is not typically the type of coach (a la Rex Ryan) who will talk about how great his team is all the time.  He is typically very critical of his players.  He may not have said these same words, but it is not uncommon for him to mention that his team needs to keep working and improving.

All of that aside, my overall point is that none of this matters.  In fact, I haven't watched a single preseason snap because it doesn't make any difference whatsoever.  When it comes to the season, the team will have to show up.
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