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Eli looks lost

Posted: 8/17/2014 10:07 AM

Eli looks lost 


I know it's early. I know it's an new system and a lot of new players. Eli looks lost. He appears unsure of his throws. He is thinking and trying to put things together. I hope I'm wrong. Once they actually put an game plan together. Maybe the offense will look butter. Even the receivers appear lost except the young players Mosley is not the answer at RG. Hope jerry makes a push there. Beatty gets an pass. Next week he needs to play better. Defense will be much better with Beason on the field. Secondary as of now is all talk and hype. They look great in practice. But now we all no why. Manning may not be an good fit for this offense.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 



Right now the pre season excuse is fine but go watch the Seattle pre season game and they obviously have their act together


The OL is still a disaster ...Pugh and Schwartz look like they are Chris Snee clones right now stuck in mud and missing blocks

This team will be in alot of trouble if the OL plays even close to pre-season.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 11:59 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 


I am sliding into that camp that is concerned with what is going on with the first team offense.    I am not liking how things are going.......we are looking very ragged.    The second and third team's seem to have their act together.....which is good.     I almost feel like we need our first unit to play 3 whole quarters.    Eli hasn't even run a 2 minute drill yet.    I think this problematic.    I also feel like our lack of playing the first unit in preseason last year led to us playing sloppy ball against the Cowboys.    


Let's face it.    Eli doesn't look good.   I think we all need to see him pick it up....along with the O Line.   The receivers have also been a little ragged.   Cruz did have that long reception get erased by the penalty......so we have seen a couple of successful plays.    Jennings had the long run last week.    But our first level offense has done absolutely nothing.   If TC and BMA don't take some actions to clean things up......I think we all have reasons to be justifiably concerned.    I usually don't feel that way in the preseason.......but I see some scary comparisons to how we played offensively last season sneaking into the current year.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 2:27 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


I really thought (and hoped) that with the off season and the new offensive coaches, we would see Eli's fundamentals improve.  But 3 preseason games into the year, Eli looks exactly like he did last year.  Throwing off his back foot....passes inaccurate...etc...

To state the obvious...Eli's ability to avoid the rush or scramble out of the pocket is hardly a strength.  So anytime the o-line breaks down and the opposing d-line gets push up the middle (which appears often) the offensive play turns into a nightmare.   Watching highlights last night of Green Bay and seeing Rodgers flush out of the pocket and extend plays disbelief...these are things Eli simply can't do consistently.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 6:15 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 



hcgiles wrote: I really thought (and hoped) that with the off season and the new offensive coaches, we would see Eli's fundamentals improve.  But 3 preseason games into the year, Eli looks exactly like he did last year.  Throwing off his back foot....passes inaccurate...etc...

To state the obvious...Eli's ability to avoid the rush or scramble out of the pocket is hardly a strength.  So anytime the o-line breaks down and the opposing d-line gets push up the middle (which appears often) the offensive play turns into a nightmare.   Watching highlights last night of Green Bay and seeing Rodgers flush out of the pocket and extend plays disbelief...these are things Eli simply can't do consistently.
I haven't had a chance to see any of the games, and still going under the premise of it only being pre-season, but for arguments sake, lets say you guys are right and Eli just isn't getting it, for the good of the team at what point in the season would you think about sitting him or would you?  Lets say we are 0-4 and the O is just aweful, do you think there is any chance he is yanked for Nassib?  Again for the record, this is just a fan forum, I am not looking for anyone to get into a bitter argument about this, just asking.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 6:45 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


I don't think he is lost at all. Eli is a very smart QB, probably one of the smartest in the game. Eli's problem is his accuracy, he has never been the most accurate and it seems it is getting worse. He is high or low with a simple pass to a RB out of the backfield.
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Posted: 8/17/2014 7:08 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 



CgkenBMC wrote:
hcgiles wrote: I really thought (and hoped) that with the off season and the new offensive coaches, we would see Eli's fundamentals improve.  But 3 preseason games into the year, Eli looks exactly like he did last year.  Throwing off his back foot....passes inaccurate...etc...

To state the obvious...Eli's ability to avoid the rush or scramble out of the pocket is hardly a strength.  So anytime the o-line breaks down and the opposing d-line gets push up the middle (which appears often) the offensive play turns into a nightmare.   Watching highlights last night of Green Bay and seeing Rodgers flush out of the pocket and extend plays disbelief...these are things Eli simply can't do consistently.
I haven't had a chance to see any of the games, and still going under the premise of it only being pre-season, but for arguments sake, lets say you guys are right and Eli just isn't getting it, for the good of the team at what point in the season would you think about sitting him or would you?  Lets say we are 0-4 and the O is just aweful, do you think there is any chance he is yanked for Nassib?  Again for the record, this is just a fan forum, I am not looking for anyone to get into a bitter argument about this, just asking.
Because of what he has accomplished, and his obvious football knowledge this team will go the distance with Eli Manning, before they decide to go with Nassib, or anybody else. Personally I feel Nassib can handle the job, his lack of experience is one thing, however his athletic ability is infinitely better than that of Eli Manning. We may well be at the beginning of Eli Manning's decline. I never felt like a lot of the arm chair GMs on this web, who kept parroting the same old line about using Nassib as bait for future draft choices, as a big Syracuse fan, and having watched Nassib for years I felt he was a talent worth developing, and when the team moved up to take him I knew they wanted him to develop as a viable replacement for the durable and productive QB they now have. Nothing lasts forever even iron wears out, and after all Eli has been around a longtime.rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
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Posted: 8/17/2014 9:07 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


Either we aren't showing squat of our new offense, or it is simply not in Eli's realm to master it.
For some unknown reason, none of the plays I expected to see, where called. Look what the Colts did, over and over, dump offs to RB's, quick slants to Nicks, that is what I was looking for in the 'new offense'. Again, either we are saving it entirely for the regular season, or this looks more and more like last years offense, predictable and stale.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/18/2014 4:35 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 



CgkenBMC wrote:
 
I haven't had a chance to see any of the games, and still going under the premise of it only being pre-season, but for arguments sake, lets say you guys are right and Eli just isn't getting it, for the good of the team at what point in the season would you think about sitting him or would you?  Lets say we are 0-4 and the O is just aweful, do you think there is any chance he is yanked for Nassib?  Again for the record, this is just a fan forum, I am not looking for anyone to get into a bitter argument about this, just asking.
I think if Eli does get yanked, and I really don't see that happening barring a major injury, it would signal the end of Eli Manning playing for the Giants. I don't believe Nassib is ready to be a NFL starting QB now and, possibly, ever. Painter is a career backup. Besides, I think the real number one issue is the "new and improved" O line is really only just "new".
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Posted: 8/18/2014 7:54 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 


eli can be the smartest qb in all the world I dont care, just be accurate.
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Posted: 8/18/2014 2:45 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


Not only is he not elite, he is right now as we speak the worst QB in the whole league. Don't get me wrong I appreciate very much what he has done for us, but that was then this is now. Put in Nassib, or bring someone else in via trade. This stuff with Eli is ridiculous, it's basic fundamentals. I would really like to know what he does during the off season, because it doesn't look like he does much. I say bring in Tebow give him a look. I really find it hard to believe Josh Freeman could have looked any worse than Eli does right now.

Its beginning to look a lot like Eli was more lucky then good at any point in his career. Right now we no longer have the defense to carry him.

Last edited 8/18/2014 2:49 PM by rip316

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  • dagolfguy
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Posted: 8/18/2014 3:37 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


When you watch the next game, notice how many receivers are open or even paying attention for the ball on short quick routes. I've seen that they are not doing that.
So, if he's trying to get the ball out quick, somebody should be running a quick slant or button hook like Jason Witten does against us so often.
Either they don't want to show that portion of their game plans or the receivers are not understanding yet.
Jernigan in particular is not looking for the ball early. Ditto for anyone playing TE.
The only pass plays that looked in synch were the shots down the field.
(I'm only talking about the plays with the starters in).
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Posted: 8/19/2014 8:55 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 


I don't necessarily agree that Eli looks "lost."  He does, however, look very uncomfortable.  I wonder if we collectively allowed our enthusiasm for a "new offense" to raise near-term expectations unreasonably.   I realize we all need things to discuss and debate, but I can wait until the end of the season to conclude that putting the offense in McAdoo's hands was a mistake.  Regardless, I will not wax nostalgic for the Kevin Gilbride offense.  It became predictable and very defendable, especially when it was built upon a weak OL.

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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:27 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 



ghernblanston wrote:

Regardless, I will not wax nostalgic for the Kevin Gilbride offense.  It became predictable and very defendable, especially when it was built upon a weak OL.

That's the key right there. This offense, much like last year's, will only go as far as the OL takes it.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:44 AM

Re: Eli looks lost 


Personally I think Eli is still skittish about playing behind this OL. He is older now and he sure doesn't want to take a beating in this stage of his career. He is back to throwing off his back foot, instead of moving up in whatever pocket there may be. All this shows in his play. Get him some good OLmen and his play will dramatically improve. Guaranteed.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:23 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 



OK so in the past I have seen blame go to the defense, the wide receivers and now its the oline. I'm just curious at what point does it fall on Eli?

In my opinion this team went south as soon as Eli got paid. He's not even close to the type of QB that can carry a team on his shoulders. He's just a game manager type of QB and with all the salary cap he's eating up we can no longer put a team around him that he can manage. I don't want to sound like I'm just bashing Eli, but that just how it works. If you win you get paid and then the following years the team suffers. It's not just us its the norm several other teams are in the same boat(IE the Ravens).

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--- DocGooden wrote:


ghernblanston wrote:Regardless, I will not wax nostalgic for the Kevin Gilbride offense.  It became predictable and very defendable, especially when it was built upon a weak OL.

That's the key right there. This offense, much like last year's, will only go as far as the OL takes it.

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Last edited 8/19/2014 1:24 PM by rip316

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Posted: 8/19/2014 1:53 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


I don't care what the state of the OL is, if your going to play QB in the NFL you need to be able to stand in the pocket, take a hit, and still deliver the ball. If he's gun shy then the best Ol in the world isn't going to change that, it's already too late. As a QB you just can't have any of those things running through your mind or its all over.

I do agree though scared is a much better description for Eli than lost.

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--- Jintsfan46 wrote:

Personally I think Eli is still skittish about playing behind this OL. He is older now and he sure doesn't want to take a beating in this stage of his career. He is back to throwing off his back foot, instead of moving up in whatever pocket there may be. All this shows in his play. Get him some good OLmen and his play will dramatically improve. Guaranteed.

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Last edited 8/19/2014 1:55 PM by rip316

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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:15 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


He is struggling in practice as well.  That suggests to me that it is not related to the OL.  The thought that popped into my brain today is that perhaps they have him working on his mechanics.  That could explain his inconsistency.
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Posted: 8/19/2014 2:23 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 



GordonG wrote: He is struggling in practice as well.  That suggests to me that it is not related to the OL.  The thought that popped into my brain today is that perhaps they have him working on his mechanics.  That could explain his inconsistency.
Which begs the question, does it make any sense to try to work on his mechanics after nine seasons in the League and growing up under the tutelage of a father who played the position in the NFL. Going on the assumption that Eli has had a football in his hand from age 3 or 4, is it even possible to undue 3 decades of muscle memory?
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Posted: 8/19/2014 10:06 PM

Re: Eli looks lost 


Dweez, your point is well taken.  I did some research and found an article written by Steve Young that talks about the importance of the QB's footwork being timed with the receivers route. 

Here are some excerpts from the article:

 Sid Gillman: "How can you (Young) make a decision if you have no sense of timing? You are just waiting, waiting, waiting. Then you have to set your feet and throw the football. By then it's too late."

I (Young) remember Bill yelling at me, "Steve, no one knows where you are going to be. You've got to lock this stuff in so you can make reads, give the ball to people on time and make decisions about where to throw the football based on your feet."

On a typical pass play, I (Young) would drop back five steps, plant and throw immediately and on time to the primary receiver. But if I hitched, I would move on to the second receiver. Or I would hitch a second time and throw to the outlet. A third hitch told me I had to leave the pocket. Everything is tied together. In fact, I could watch a game film, cut my body in half, watch only the bottom half of my body and tell you how we played.

Last edited 8/19/2014 10:08 PM by GordonG

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