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just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE

Posted: 8/11/2014 9:35 AM

just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


ok, kevin gilbride left behind his playbook and TC is making mcadoo use it.

west coast ???? I think we are more like caught up in tornado alley spinning away .

Andre williams is gonna be great, and with RB injuries he will probably get a lot of chances every game and every game will do something great.

the rest of the offense, well its gonna be hard for eli to hit the WR's if the OL is going to be like last year.

i never understood how 5 guys 6'4" 300+ pound behemoths can be beat so often by the other teams DL's.

the theory of they got to play together as a unit etc etc..I never bought, denver and chicago brought in new lines last year and they worked fine..its still individual battles on the OL vs DL and we lose often.

but west coast offense is suppose to be the fix to that, quick hits to every side of the field to WR, RB and TE keeps defenses off balance.

I have not seen that, have you?

Im still waiting to see the new playbook .

3 weeks to a fix is all I can say.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 10:31 AM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


I think fans are going to have to be patient with the new offense and the OL.  We have a new OL and a new offense and people are worried two weeks into the pre-season?  Realistically, it is going to take even more that the pre-seaon to get this thing rolling. 

I've actually been quite encouraged by what we have shown thus far.  Our top 2 running backs look good!  I thought Eli might look like a disaster throwing screens and short outs and slants but his footwork has been Okay.  Nassib looks better in this system and Painter definitely looked good, so, we look okay at QB.  The TE, WR and OL are certainly Question marks.  Getting beatty back should help the OL.

Thankfully, the defense looks good to me.  I think we will be strong at all three levels with depth. And if we get off to a good start this year, the defense will be the key to keeping us in the games.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:16 AM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


JR gambled that mid to late round picks would rebuild the O line. It didn't happen. So, they bought what they could in free agency while paying $20 million for a QB with a hugely backloaded contract. I think this O line will be better than last season, but not by enough for the team to really be successful beyond December. It's going to take another draft and off season to get all the pieces in place.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:52 AM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



dweez115 wrote: JR gambled that mid to late round picks would rebuild the O line. It didn't happen. So, they bought what they could in free agency while paying $20 million for a QB with a hugely backloaded contract. I think this O line will be better than last season, but not by enough for the team to really be successful beyond December. It's going to take another draft and off season to get all the pieces in place.

LOL are you kidding? The OL is worlds better than last year.

LT - Will Beatty can only go up, and having Schwartz next to him will improve his play

LG - Geoff Schwartz is way way way better than Kevin Boothe. Schwartz is a Top 10 guard while Boothe is mediocre.

C - JD Walton is way better than the combination of Jim Cordle and Kevin Boothe.

RG - Brandon Mosley is an ASTRONOMICAL upgrade over David Diehl. Diehl was literally the WORST guard in the league last year on a per-play basis. Diehl was the worst player on our OL last year.

RT - Justin Pugh is stronger and flat out better than last year.


"Not by enough" LOL....it's vastly improved all across the board



People are clueless regarding the OL

Last edited 8/11/2014 11:52 AM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:56 AM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



56801BackAgain wrote: ok, kevin gilbride left behind his playbook and TC is making mcadoo use it.

west coast ???? I think we are more like caught up in tornado alley spinning away .

Andre williams is gonna be great, and with RB injuries he will probably get a lot of chances every game and every game will do something great.

the rest of the offense, well its gonna be hard for eli to hit the WR's if the OL is going to be like last year.

i never understood how 5 guys 6'4" 300+ pound behemoths can be beat so often by the other teams DL's.

the theory of they got to play together as a unit etc etc..I never bought, denver and chicago brought in new lines last year and they worked fine..its still individual battles on the OL vs DL and we lose often.

but west coast offense is suppose to be the fix to that, quick hits to every side of the field to WR, RB and TE keeps defenses off balance.

I have not seen that, have you?

Im still waiting to see the new playbook .

3 weeks to a fix is all I can say.


Preseason Preseason Preseason

No targets to Victor Cruz. That's for a reason. Eli and Cruz already have a connection.

Eli is just experimenting out there. Working on fundamentals.

In the 1st game, Eli was practicing checking down to Jennings and practicing throwing to Jernigan on the outside.

In the 2nd game, Eli was experimenting with the zone running game.

Why would the Giants put their brand new offense on tape???

The plays they are running in camp are not being run in preseason. That's on purpose. They're trying to not show their hand on preseason film. So when the REAL games start, they can unleash the offense.


Preseason is PRACTICE. Stop judging the offense as a whole in the preseason. That's stupid.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:59 AM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
dweez115 wrote: JR gambled that mid to late round picks would rebuild the O line. It didn't happen. So, they bought what they could in free agency while paying $20 million for a QB with a hugely backloaded contract. I think this O line will be better than last season, but not by enough for the team to really be successful beyond December. It's going to take another draft and off season to get all the pieces in place.

LOL are you kidding? The OL is worlds better than last year.

LT - Will Beatty can only go up, and having Schwartz next to him will improve his play

LG - Geoff Schwartz is way way way better than Kevin Boothe. Schwartz is a Top 10 guard while Boothe is mediocre.

C - JD Walton is way better than the combination of Jim Cordle and Kevin Boothe.

RG - Brandon Mosley is an ASTRONOMICAL upgrade over David Diehl. Diehl was literally the WORST guard in the league last year on a per-play basis. Diehl was the worst player on our OL last year.

RT - Justin Pugh is stronger and flat out better than last year.


"Not by enough" LOL....it's vastly improved all across the board



People are clueless regarding the OL
We don't know what we are going to get from Walton and Mosley. Hyperbole aside, being better than terrible does not equal success. There is also the question of how well this group works together. That is not something you can judge based on individual talent or potential.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:14 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



DocGooden wrote:
EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
dweez115 wrote: JR gambled that mid to late round picks would rebuild the O line. It didn't happen. So, they bought what they could in free agency while paying $20 million for a QB with a hugely backloaded contract. I think this O line will be better than last season, but not by enough for the team to really be successful beyond December. It's going to take another draft and off season to get all the pieces in place.

LOL are you kidding? The OL is worlds better than last year.

LT - Will Beatty can only go up, and having Schwartz next to him will improve his play

LG - Geoff Schwartz is way way way better than Kevin Boothe. Schwartz is a Top 10 guard while Boothe is mediocre.

C - JD Walton is way better than the combination of Jim Cordle and Kevin Boothe.

RG - Brandon Mosley is an ASTRONOMICAL upgrade over David Diehl. Diehl was literally the WORST guard in the league last year on a per-play basis. Diehl was the worst player on our OL last year.

RT - Justin Pugh is stronger and flat out better than last year.


"Not by enough" LOL....it's vastly improved all across the board



People are clueless regarding the OL
We don't know what we are going to get from Walton and Mosley. Hyperbole aside, being better than terrible does not equal success. There is also the question of how well this group works together. That is not something you can judge based on individual talent or potential.

I think we know exactly what we're getting with Walton. A guy who isn't going to get beat for pressures up the middle, very reliable pass-blocker. A guy who is not going to get push in the power run game, but can make some angle blocks. Most importantly, Walton takes all the pressure off of Eli in terms of making the line calls. Having Walton at center means less responsibility at the LOS for Eli pre-snap. In the old offense the responsibility fell on Eli to make the line calls. That responsibility is now on Walton, which is a hidden quality of his (high football acumen) that people don't realize.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:39 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
DocGooden wrote:
EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
dweez115 wrote: JR gambled that mid to late round picks would rebuild the O line. It didn't happen. So, they bought what they could in free agency while paying $20 million for a QB with a hugely backloaded contract. I think this O line will be better than last season, but not by enough for the team to really be successful beyond December. It's going to take another draft and off season to get all the pieces in place.

LOL are you kidding? The OL is worlds better than last year.

LT - Will Beatty can only go up, and having Schwartz next to him will improve his play

LG - Geoff Schwartz is way way way better than Kevin Boothe. Schwartz is a Top 10 guard while Boothe is mediocre.

C - JD Walton is way better than the combination of Jim Cordle and Kevin Boothe.

RG - Brandon Mosley is an ASTRONOMICAL upgrade over David Diehl. Diehl was literally the WORST guard in the league last year on a per-play basis. Diehl was the worst player on our OL last year.

RT - Justin Pugh is stronger and flat out better than last year.


"Not by enough" LOL....it's vastly improved all across the board



People are clueless regarding the OL
We don't know what we are going to get from Walton and Mosley. Hyperbole aside, being better than terrible does not equal success. There is also the question of how well this group works together. That is not something you can judge based on individual talent or potential.

I think we know exactly what we're getting with Walton. A guy who isn't going to get beat for pressures up the middle, very reliable pass-blocker. A guy who is not going to get push in the power run game, but can make some angle blocks. Most importantly, Walton takes all the pressure off of Eli in terms of making the line calls. Having Walton at center means less responsibility at the LOS for Eli pre-snap. In the old offense the responsibility fell on Eli to make the line calls. That responsibility is now on Walton, which is a hidden quality of his (high football acumen) that people don't realize.
Walton's last regular season game was September 30, 2012. That's a long time ago. I'm certainly not ready to share your optimism and it wouldn't surprise me if Richburg finishes the season at C.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:45 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
LOL are you kidding? The OL is worlds better than last year.

LT - Will Beatty can only go up, and having Schwartz next to him will improve his play

LG - Geoff Schwartz is way way way better than Kevin Boothe. Schwartz is a Top 10 guard while Boothe is mediocre.

C - JD Walton is way better than the combination of Jim Cordle and Kevin Boothe.

RG - Brandon Mosley is an ASTRONOMICAL upgrade over David Diehl. Diehl was literally the WORST guard in the league last year on a per-play basis. Diehl was the worst player on our OL last year.

RT - Justin Pugh is stronger and flat out better than last year.


"Not by enough" LOL....it's vastly improved all across the board



People are clueless regarding the OL
They have shown absolutely nothing against two different teams #1s. NOTHING. Will they get better? Probably. Will they be good? Probably not. So, 9-7 vs 7-9? If you think this unit can go far in the playoffs, you're just fooling yourself. The Giants will be competitive in games primarily because of the defense. Unfortunately, endless three and outs take a toll on even the best defenses. This is not a dominant football team. We are very lucky that the NFC East is unusually weak. If we had to play two games against the NFC West teams, instead of two against the East, it would be ugly. The fact that we do play against the NFC West this season may be the very reason we miss the playoffs - again. A substandard O line, no TE, and only one consistent WR means every D in the League is going to stack the line and dare us to run. And run blocking is this line's greatest weakness. The RBs can't do it by themselves and we don't have a mobile QB that would allow us to run the option to keep defenses guessing. Aside from Dallas, who may have the League's worse D line, what team on the schedule do you see this O line having success running the ball against? Let us know which teams you expect the Giants to dominate on the ground. Make your predictions and we will see how you did at the end of the season. List all the games where you expect the Giants to have a RB - doesn't matter which one - to have over a 100 yards rushing.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:50 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



DocGooden wrote:

Hyperbole aside, being better than terrible does not equal success. 
Precisely.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 1:05 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



56801BackAgain wrote: ok, kevin gilbride left behind his playbook and TC is making mcadoo use it.

west coast ???? I think we are more like caught up in tornado alley spinning away .

Andre williams is gonna be great, and with RB injuries he will probably get a lot of chances every game and every game will do something great.

the rest of the offense, well its gonna be hard for eli to hit the WR's if the OL is going to be like last year.

i never understood how 5 guys 6'4" 300+ pound behemoths can be beat so often by the other teams DL's.

the theory of they got to play together as a unit etc etc..I never bought, denver and chicago brought in new lines last year and they worked fine..its still individual battles on the OL vs DL and we lose often.

but west coast offense is suppose to be the fix to that, quick hits to every side of the field to WR, RB and TE keeps defenses off balance.

I have not seen that, have you?

Im still waiting to see the new playbook .

3 weeks to a fix is all I can say.
You will probably have to wait until September to see the new playbook. In other words, why would the Giants show every team we are going to play this season our new offense right out of the gate? We will show the same vanilla offense, with some wrinkles thrown in so DC's will have 'something' to think about. Wait till the opening game and then you will see what all this West Coast fuss is about.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/11/2014 2:02 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


Giants fans, after watching our 2007 team blossom late in the season, should understand better than most fans that a team is a dynamic organism that changes (sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse) over the course of a season.  It is never a matter of reviewing the roster in August or September and viewing a couple of pre-season games with the idea of "what you see is what you get."

That is particularly true of this Giants team for two huge reasons: first, we have a new offense, and second we have had a tremendous roster turnover.  This team screams potential for improvement as the year goes along.  They key will not be getting off to such a poor start that we can't make up ground late. But even if the roster was perfect, it would still take this team time to establish cohesion and learn to execute a new offense smoothly.

As for the OL, I seriously doubt whether anyone can know what we have or don't have right now because it is so new.  OL performance comes down to more than talent.  No one thought the Seubert was a great talent.  No one thought that O'Hara was anything more than solid.  Fans were wanting to replace Diehl every year because he was deficient.  Yet, two Super Bowl wins later, Giants fans are skeptical that we have enough talent on the OL. 

To me, it is simply a matter of whether or not this group comes together.  They might, they might not.  But I plan on having fun watching it unfold rather than pretending to know something that cannot be knows by setting up low expectations because they are unproven; and then be all sour in August.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 2:31 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



YeOldeMtnWasp wrote:  But I plan on having fun watching it unfold rather than pretending to know something that cannot be knows by setting up low expectations because they are unproven; and then be all sour in August.
Which sound great. Except they are NOT unproven. They are free agents who have established records in the NFL and hours of tape on their techniques. Yes, Richburg could, and hopefully will, surprise on the upside. But he's one player. And there are significant questions marks about more than one guy on this O line.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 3:26 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


Something to think about (I'm not taking a position either way -- it is too early): would the Giants have been better off keeping the same system and investing heavily in the OL.  Instead, the Giants improved their offensive line AND changed their system, but now the players need to learn a new system.......noideanoideanoideanoidea

                Remember Joe Delaney
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Posted: 8/11/2014 3:33 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 



callmeSage wrote: Something to think about (I'm not taking a position either way -- it is too early): would the Giants have been better off keeping the same system and investing heavily in the OL.  Instead, the Giants improved their offensive line AND changed their system, but now the players need to learn a new system.......noideanoideanoideanoidea
My thought watching the team play the last 1.5 years was that the opposition knew better what we were trying to do on offense than our own players.  I think our offensive system was developed as far as it could go and that it was stale and easy to scout.

So, that puts me in the camp as one who thought we needed a new system as well as a new OL.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 5:01 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


I agree with you on several levels.

For sure, this team needs time to gel, and several jobs depend on it. If TC can't bring this team together, he is done, and I would say the same for Reese.

If the Giants put it all together and it is entirely possible, then accolades to TC and Reese. If so, this could be TC's best coaching job ever, but if we tank, heads will roll.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/11/2014 5:26 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


You wouldn't make a good coach, if you give away your new playbook in pre season.
There were a couple of 3rd and long plays with the first team offence, and they just called a draw play, which was intentional not to give away much I think.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 6:15 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


i don't know if this west coast offense is the best style for eli... even though, he may end up having his best career completion % and post better numbers this year, i think eli is the type of qb that thrives in an option route offense... reading the defense and reacting to it... eli doesn't get phased by interceptions or caught up in his numbers...

the giants would have been better served getting smarter receivers not necessarily more talented... a toomer  rather than a moss... i think in the long run this makes our offense more predictable...
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Posted: 8/11/2014 7:18 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


I'm not entirely sure I buy the "vanilla offense" on purpose theory.  Maybe...maybe not.

But as some have alluded to, the o-line has been dominated by the other team's #1 d-line in both preseason games.  There's no denying that - and that is worrisome.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 8:07 PM

Re: just watched game. IS THIS THE NEW OFFENSE 


I remain convinced that we will see a blend of the old offense with an increased emphasis on quick routes screens and much more participation by RBs in the passing game.  I am also thinking that the individual strengths of players will have a greater influence on game planning.
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