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PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game

Posted: 8/10/2014 4:31 PM

PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


Here are the OL grades

LT Charles Brown, 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
0.0 overall, -2.3 pass-block, +2.2 run-block

LG Geoff Schwartz, 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
+0.3 overall, +0.5 pass-block, -0.3 run-block

C JD Walton 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
-1.7 overall, +0.3 pass-block, -2.0 run-block

RG Brandon Mosley 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
-0.2 overall, +0.5 pass-block, -0.8 run-block

RT Justin Pugh 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
+1.5 overall, +0.7 pass-block, +0.7 run-block

LT James Brewer 33 total plays, 13 run-block, 20 pass-block
+3.0 overall, +1.2 pass-block, +1.7 run-block

LG Dallas Reynolds 33 total plays, 13 run-block, 20 pass-block
-1.5 overall, +0.8 pass-block, -2.4 run-block

C Weston Richburg 26 total plays, 11 run-block, 15 pass-block
-0.8 overall, +0.4 pass-block, -1.2 run-block

RG John Jerry 21 total plays, 8 run-block, 13 pass-block
-0.8 overall, +0.5 pass-block, -1.4 run-block
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Posted: 8/10/2014 8:43 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


After 2 preseason games, this is how the OL compares to the rest of the league

Brewer is rank 3rd among OTs. +3.7

Pugh is ranked 7th among OTs  +2.4

Brown is ranked 83rd among OTs  -1.7 pass blocking is the problem

Schwartz is ranked 76th among OGs  -0.7  run blocking is the problem

Mosley is ranked 88th among OGs  -1.0  run blocking is the problem

Reynolds is ranked 97th among OGs  -1.5  run blocking is the problem

Richburg is ranked 104th among OGs  -1.9 run blocking is the problem

Jerry is ranked 113th among OGs  -2.7  pass blocking is the problem

Reynolds is ranked 30th among Centers  -0,7  run blocking is the problem

Richburg is ranked 34th among Centers  -0.8  run blocking is the problem

Walton is ranked 48th among Centers  -1,7 run blocking is the problem

So, purely on the basis of PFF grades the starting OL is: Brewer, Schwartz, Reynolds, Mosley and Pugh.

It is interesting to note that Jennings 73 yd run came between center and guard where run blocking is the most problematic.  While it is obvious that Walton has been taking all the snaps against the defensive starters, his run blocking is significantly poorer than Richburg or Reynolds.  Walton, Richburg and Reynolds are equally effective at pass blocking with a +0.4 for Richburg and Reynolds and a +0,5 for Walton.
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:00 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:53 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


LOL that's not how you use PFF, overall rankings don't matter at all with such a tiny sample size of snaps, and preseason nonetheless

Also Schwartz and Walton are facing the 1's and some 2's....guys like Reynolds and Richburg come in to face 2's and 3's

Last edited 8/10/2014 9:57 PM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/10/2014 9:55 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.

Not at all.

Geoff Schwartz is a Top 10 NFL guard who's been setting the depth of the pocket all preseason and pushing the pile in the run game.

Walton struggles in the power run game but he is a very reliable pass-protector. His biggest value is his football acumen, and the fact that he makes all the line calls.

Mosley has held up really well in pass-pro as well.

Last edited 8/10/2014 9:58 PM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/10/2014 10:58 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.

Not at all.

Geoff Schwartz is a Top 10 NFL guard who's been setting the depth of the pocket all preseason and pushing the pile in the run game.

Walton struggles in the power run game but he is a very reliable pass-protector. His biggest value is his football acumen, and the fact that he makes all the line calls.

Mosley has held up really well in pass-pro as well.
Schwartz "Top 10"?  He is a journeyman.  How many teams has this "top 10" guard played for in the last five years?
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Posted: 8/11/2014 7:33 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


It seems like PFF grades, like all stats, can be used to make a player look good or bad, depending on how you want to use the grade.  Painter had a very good PFF grade and a great passer rating but he was also playing against nobodies.  Does that mean Painter is a better Qback than Nassib or even Eli.  I think not.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 9:25 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.
so just 3 of the 5 guys we need, sounds fixable ...LMAO.

we are doomed if this is the case, and after sacks last night on 2 early drives that left us in 3rd and forevers, a big fix is needed. time will tell, and by that i mean 3 weeks time.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 9:28 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Tupperlake wrote: It seems like PFF grades, like all stats, can be used to make a player look good or bad, depending on how you want to use the grade.  Painter had a very good PFF grade and a great passer rating but he was also playing against nobodies.  Does that mean Painter is a better Qback than Nassib or even Eli.  I think not.
+1
I wouldn't put much weight on pre-season PFF grades.
“No matter how much you've won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you're not winning now, so you stink.” -Bill Parcells
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:00 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


I think the OL is rounding into shape and won't be a problem this year.  I like the depth at OT with Brown and Brewer.  Brown could be a good player in this league if he were moved to RT full time.  If Beatty went down with a significant injury, I would probably move Pugh to LT and then let Brown handle RT. 

Beatty is a bit of a wild card, but if he doesn't play well or doesn't stay healthy, the Giants have the depth to handle it. 

LG is fine.  We need Mosley to develop into a quality RG.  Jerry is nice depth.  But one major injury to one of our guards and our depth In the interior will really be tested.

Walton is not a good run blocker and I'm not expecting that to change.  I'm assuming (and hoping) the Giants knew that when they signed him.  Richburg provides solid depth at center; I'm less optimistic about him as a guard--he probably isn't strong enough yet.

Overall, the Giants could have a little more depth at OG, but I like the OL this year, much improved now that David Diehl is gone.  That clown didn't belong in the NFL and it is sad that David Wilson's career ended on one of David Diehl's whiff blocks.  Nice job, Coughlin.  Apparently, Coughlin was the only one in the universe who didn't know that Diehl couldn't play RG last year.

Right now the bigger problem on offense is the passing game, which doesn't seem to be in sync, and the Giants have nothing, absolutely nothing at TE.  The passing game should improve, but I don't believe they have a legitimate starting TE on the roster.

                Remember Joe Delaney
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:31 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


"Schwartz "Top 10"?  He is a journeyman.  How many teams has this "top 10" guard played for in the last five years?"
------------------------




That means absolutely nothing.

Evan Mathis was a "journeyman" when he joined the Eagles.

Evan Mathis is now the best guard in football.

Great guards are easily overlooked in this league because they play a position that isn't backed up by statistical production. The guard position is not a "sexy" position.

But check the PFF grades on Schwartz over his career, and especially last year. He's a Top 10 guard easily.

Last edited 8/11/2014 11:37 AM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:32 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Tupperlake wrote: It seems like PFF grades, like all stats, can be used to make a player look good or bad, depending on how you want to use the grade.  Painter had a very good PFF grade and a great passer rating but he was also playing against nobodies.  Does that mean Painter is a better Qback than Nassib or even Eli.  I think not.


That's why it's all about CONTEXT.

PFF grades are very valuable for offensive linemen during the regular season.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:35 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



56801BackAgain wrote:
Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.
so just 3 of the 5 guys we need, sounds fixable ...LMAO.

we are doomed if this is the case, and after sacks last night on 2 early drives that left us in 3rd and forevers, a big fix is needed. time will tell, and by that i mean 3 weeks time.

Geoff Schwartz in 2013 with the Chiefs:

498 snaps, +15.6 overall grade, +5.4 pass-block, +2.5 screen-block, +8.4 run-block

Elite, Top 10 guard in football.

Can pin DTs at the LOS in pass-protection, and can move guys back in the power run game.


No fix is needed at all. Schwartz, Walton, Mosley, and Pugh have all played well. The only hole is at LT, which should be solved when Beatty gets back. Beatty, btw, has looked very good in camp.


Nothing to worry about at all.


Last edited 8/11/2014 11:42 AM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:39 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Fan1938 wrote:
EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.

Not at all.

Geoff Schwartz is a Top 10 NFL guard who's been setting the depth of the pocket all preseason and pushing the pile in the run game.

Walton struggles in the power run game but he is a very reliable pass-protector. His biggest value is his football acumen, and the fact that he makes all the line calls.

Mosley has held up really well in pass-pro as well.
Schwartz "Top 10"?  He is a journeyman.  How many teams has this "top 10" guard played for in the last five years?
Oh btw, DRC is now on his 4th team (Cards, Eagles, Broncos) in his 5 year career.

According to you, there's no way DRC is a Top 10 corner! He's been on 4 teams in his 5 year career! Just a journeyman! Forget about him making any kind of impact <sarcasm>


Dumb dumb dumb. SMH

Last edited 8/11/2014 11:41 AM by EliMcAdoo2014

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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:45 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.

I don't think you grasp the concept of how PFF grading works if this your conclusion. Overall rankings only are used when looking at a large sample size (for an entire regular season, for example)

We need a new OG? Geoff Schwartz is a Top 10 guard. He was the 9th best guard in the league last year....while only playing 498 snaps. Guy's a beast.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:48 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


The biggest takeaway from these PFF grades - Look at the highlighted:

LG Geoff Schwartz, 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
+0.3 overall, +0.5 pass-block, -0.3 run-block

C JD Walton 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
-1.7 overall, +0.3 pass-block, -2.0 run-block

RG Brandon Mosley 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
-0.2 overall, +0.5 pass-block, -0.8 run-block

RT Justin Pugh 28 total plays, 16 run-block, 12 pass-block
+1.5 overall, +0.7 pass-block, +0.7 run-block



Outside of the backup LT Brown who will be replaced by Beatty anyways, all the other 1's earned POSITIVE GRADES IN PASS-PROTECTION


Clearly the OL has upgraded tremendously from last year from a pass-blocking standpoint.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 11:48 AM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


Schwartz is clearly an excellent G and probably a very good RT as well. His problem has always been injury. When he plays, he's very good. He was a big part of first rate rushing attacks in Carolina, Minnesota, and Kansas City.
“No matter how much you've won, no matter how many games, no matter how many championships, no matter how many Super Bowls, you're not winning now, so you stink.” -Bill Parcells
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Posted: 8/11/2014 12:59 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.
This was sort of said, tongue in cheek' but seems it has taken on a life of it's own. Next time I'll put a smiley next to it.

That said, I don't care how players grade out, I still have eyes and many, many years of football knowledge. Just because a player like Schwartz has good numbers from a couple of years ago, sure doesn't mean he automatically comes in and fixes what it wrong. Like you, I hope so, but my rose colored glasses fell off a year or so ago. If some want to believe any player picked up by the Giants is an automatic upgrade from what we had, maybe, but I need to see that for myself. As of now, I haven't seen anything from this 'new' OL that makes me feel confident about them 'being fine'.
 maybe they will, I sure hope so, for Eli's sake and all die hard Giant fans, If you want to believe they will be fine/good, go ahead, personally, I'm just not at that point yet.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 8/11/2014 8:35 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 


Clarification:  2014 is DRC's 7th season.  He spent three seasons with Arizona, 2 seasons with Philly and 1 season with Denver.  He was traded to Philly along with a second round pick for QB Kevin Kolb.  I presume that the Eagles took over his rookie contract and then elected not to retain him.  His contract with Denver was essentially a one year contract.  HIs 5 year contract with the Giants is structured in such a manner that strongly suggests he will retire a Giant.
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Posted: 8/11/2014 9:17 PM

Re: PFF grades are in for Giants-Steelers preseason game 



EliMcAdoo2014 wrote:
56801BackAgain wrote:
Jintsfan46 wrote:
 So to summarize this, we need  2 OG and a center to have a real NFL OL.
so just 3 of the 5 guys we need, sounds fixable ...LMAO.

we are doomed if this is the case, and after sacks last night on 2 early drives that left us in 3rd and forevers, a big fix is needed. time will tell, and by that i mean 3 weeks time.

Geoff Schwartz in 2013 with the Chiefs:

498 snaps, +15.6 overall grade, +5.4 pass-block, +2.5 screen-block, +8.4 run-block

Elite, Top 10 guard in football.

Can pin DTs at the LOS in pass-protection, and can move guys back in the power run game.


No fix is needed at all. Schwartz, Walton, Mosley, and Pugh have all played well. The only hole is at LT, which should be solved when Beatty gets back. Beatty, btw, has looked very good in camp.


Nothing to worry about at all.


It takes time for an O-Line to gel and considering 3 of them are new to the Giants O-Line, I wouldn't expect them to be clicking during the 2nd game of the preseason.
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