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Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage

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Posted: 7/25/2014 4:24 PM

Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


http://nypost.com/2014/07/24/r...cking-out-wife/

Not to try and start another controversial thread, but this one is also football related.

Ray Rice has been suspended for 2 games for assaulting his girlfriend/now wife. He was videoed dragging her from an elevator in Atlantic City.

Seems this 2 game suspension isn't sitting well with many people. Considering that all players who test positive for anything that isn't on the official NFL list of banned things, get a 4 game suspension, even if the player had no idea what he was taking was banned. This does seem like an outrage. Goodell has been extra tough on players, coaches etc. but this is awfully light for a football player who strikes and hauls out a woman, 2 games.  Bah Humbug.

If you've never seen the original video
http://www.tmz.com/2014/02/19/...y-video-arrest/

There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 7/25/2014 5:22 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
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Posted: 7/25/2014 7:22 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



fifthavenuekid wrote: Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
This is not just a sin , this is a CRIME !

I'll cast the 1st stone , in my book , you do NOT put your hands on a woman , period !

I would never , ever , even think of any excuse for a man to abuse a woman .

I have a daughter in her 20's and just the thought of anyone touching her makes my blood boil flushed.

As for Ray Rice , his team and this league will be much better off without him, he should've gotten a harsher penalty ,we have no use for his likes !

Good job jintsfan46 .

--- ALWAYS GIANTS ---

Last edited 7/25/2014 7:26 PM by FatandProud

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Posted: 7/26/2014 1:04 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


And yet a player can get four games for smoking pot. ohlord
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Posted: 7/26/2014 6:19 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


Will Hills career is in jeopardy for something legal in some states and Rice gets a slap on the wrist??
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:53 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



chiller99 wrote: Will Hills career is in jeopardy for something legal in some states and Rice gets a slap on the wrist??
Ray Rice should absolutely have gotten more than 2 games, but let's not make the mistake of pretending Will Hill is some sort of innocent bystandard. He got caught again, and again, and again. He certainly deserved the suspension he got as well.

IndianaSoccer<br/><a href="http://i36.tinypic.com/2isfixc.jpg" target="_blank">View Raw Image</a>

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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:56 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



FatandProud wrote:
fifthavenuekid wrote: Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
This is not just a sin , this is a CRIME !

I'll cast the 1st stone , in my book , you do NOT put your hands on a woman , period !

I would never , ever , even think of any excuse for a man to abuse a woman .

I have a daughter in her 20's and just the thought of anyone touching her makes my blood boil flushed.

As for Ray Rice , his team and this league will be much better off without him, he should've gotten a harsher penalty ,we have no use for his likes !

Good job jintsfan46 .
This is the OLD way of thinking.

Personally, I always hated the mantra "don't hit girls because they are girls."

the fact is, 50% of domestic violence comes from WOMEN. Want to know what I say?

NOBODY SHOULD HIT ANYBODY.

This is the new age, men are the minority. And if you start with some feminist crap, I swear i'll pwn you like I did the "gender studies" professor who tried to say "all things equal a woman earns 80% of a man." .. which is not true...Woman actually earn 115% more than a man all things equal. but overall earn 80% less due to career choice. (just saying)

2 game suspension? I say no freaking way. It's defiantly over the top. He hasn't been convicted of anything, and if his wife stays with him she deserves everything she gets. In this day and age of PFA happy judges, Police, neighbors, family members, woman's shelters, Church advocacy groups.(list can go on) if she honestly stays with him, even if its only for the money, she's getting what she wants INCLUDING the two black eyes. Not only that, we have people in the NFL BULLYING other players and hazing, (which is in of itself also ASSUALT, yet you don't see two game suspensions there do you?)  this is a domestic incidence and the proper legal channels should and will be used. And if they aren't re-read above.

as for your daughter, if she ran at me, I wont lie, i'm punting her across the room. do you have sons? you aren't concerned for their safety?

Last edited 7/26/2014 8:57 AM by soullessnight

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Posted: 7/26/2014 9:29 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



michugana wrote:
chiller99 wrote: Will Hills career is in jeopardy for something legal in some states and Rice gets a slap on the wrist??
Ray Rice should absolutely have gotten more than 2 games, but let's not make the mistake of pretending Will Hill is some sort of innocent bystandard. He got caught again, and again, and again. He certainly deserved the suspension he got as well.
Really dont see anywhere Hill was called innocent bystander ,seems more like the gist of thread is inequality of punishment
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Posted: 7/26/2014 11:23 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



soullessnight wrote:
FatandProud wrote:
fifthavenuekid wrote: Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
This is not just a sin , this is a CRIME !

I'll cast the 1st stone , in my book , you do NOT put your hands on a woman , period !

I would never , ever , even think of any excuse for a man to abuse a woman .

I have a daughter in her 20's and just the thought of anyone touching her makes my blood boil flushed.

As for Ray Rice , his team and this league will be much better off without him, he should've gotten a harsher penalty ,we have no use for his likes !

Good job jintsfan46 .
This is the OLD way of thinking.

Personally, I always hated the mantra "don't hit girls because they are girls."

the fact is, 50% of domestic violence comes from WOMEN. Want to know what I say?

NOBODY SHOULD HIT ANYBODY.

This is the new age, men are the minority. And if you start with some feminist crap, I swear i'll pwn you like I did the "gender studies" professor who tried to say "all things equal a woman earns 80% of a man." .. which is not true...Woman actually earn 115% more than a man all things equal. but overall earn 80% less due to career choice. (just saying)

2 game suspension? I say no freaking way. It's defiantly over the top. He hasn't been convicted of anything, and if his wife stays with him she deserves everything she gets. In this day and age of PFA happy judges, Police, neighbors, family members, woman's shelters, Church advocacy groups.(list can go on) if she honestly stays with him, even if its only for the money, she's getting what she wants INCLUDING the two black eyes. Not only that, we have people in the NFL BULLYING other players and hazing, (which is in of itself also ASSUALT, yet you don't see two game suspensions there do you?)  this is a domestic incidence and the proper legal channels should and will be used. And if they aren't re-read above.

as for your daughter, if she ran at me, I wont lie, i'm punting her across the room. do you have sons? you aren't concerned for their safety?
The old way of thinking is when the cave man use to drag his woman by her hair , like you probably wish you can still do . 

I do feel sorry for your mother , sister , wife and daughter for having you and your ancient male brouhaha in their lives and I do hope it does not get passed on to your sons .

As for my daughter , we raised her as a strong , educated and loving member of this society and believe me it takes more than you and 10 others like you to put her across any room .flushed.

Sir , a gentleman or even a real man you are NOT !

--- ALWAYS GIANTS ---

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Posted: 7/26/2014 12:03 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


soullnessnight , here is another one of your Macho man friends :
-------------------------------------------------- ---------------

Stephen A Smith: Abuse Victims Should Learn 'About The Elements Of Provocation' The Huffington Post  | By  Ryan Grenoble Email Posted:  07/25/2014 2:11 pm EDT  Updated:  07/25/2014 4:59 pm EDT Print Article Share 3791 Tweet 232 Email 54 Comment 1113

On Thursday, the NFL punished Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice with a two-game suspension after the player allegedly knocked out his fiancée during an altercation in February.

While many around the league have been highly critical both of Rice's conduct and of what's been perceived as a lenient punishment, ESPN panelist Stephen A. Smith sought to temper that criticism during a "First Take" segment on Friday.

In a long-winded statement, Smith acknowledged a man has "no business putting [his] hands on a woman," then slowly worked toward the conclusion that women should also do their part not to give men a reason to beat them.

"We know [abusing women is] wrong," Smith concedes, though toward the end of his monologue he casts doubt on who, exactly, is to blame for said abuse, given "the elements of provocation."

Michelle Beadle, a female ESPN host, tweeted a response to Smith's statement, alluding to the rationale of a rapist who believes the victim asked for it by wearing provocative clothing:

In February, after TMZ obtained security camera footage of Rice dragging his unconscious fiancée out of an elevator, Smith, while critical, ultimately defended the player at the time. "It's important to recognize and reiterate [that] we do not know what happened ... inside that elevator," said Smith, concluding, "There is absolutely nothing ... that has ever brought [Rice's] integrity into question until now. ... He deserves the benefit of the doubt."

--- ALWAYS GIANTS ---

Last edited 7/26/2014 12:06 PM by FatandProud

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Posted: 7/26/2014 4:09 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


I am mid 60's and I guess I was brought up in a completely different world than it is today. 

I am all for woman's rights, equal stuff. My wife burned her bra in the 60's, (but went right out and bought  a new one. winkwinkwinkwinkwinkwink), but I was also brought up that women are considered the 'weaker' sex and should never, ever be hit, beater, or even made to feel inferior.

Steven smith is the biggest douche bag on any radio station. He is a bigot, a racist and I'm sorry, but if this offends anyone, I am sorry, but that is my opinion. He will always take the side of the Black man over anyone and his excuse for what Rice did just shows that. Now this whole thing has nothing to do with race, but leave it to smith and he will make it that way.

Anyway, anyone who can condone what Rice did, probably also felt Vick wasn't really a bad guy either.
There is no 'I' in team
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Posted: 7/26/2014 8:00 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


I am not concerned about sin, my point being all this outrage by people for the most part have done something that they would rather not want to talk about. He will pay a heavy price for what he has done, because he will forever be under a microscope the least little thing he does will end his run, you can believe that. None of these folk are without transgression, you may not have hit a woman , but I bet there is something you have done you need to be ashamed of. What he is supposed to have done is a crime, however I would venture to wager he is just a microcosm of the sum of all of us. If he was suspended 10 games most would still not be satisfied, in the large scheme he will get just what he deserves. ohlordohlordohlord
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Posted: 7/27/2014 3:22 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


I'm not sure the NFL had any right to suspend him. He's entitled to due process in a court of law with a jury, if he wants it, of his peers. Let the court convict him and then the NFL can suspend him. We can't give away constitutional rights. I think the right to work and hold a job is covered under "the pursuit of happiness". I think players can collectively in a move that's deemed,in their own interest negotiate penalties if a drug test is failed. That's very different than usurping the courts prerogatives and the presumption of innocence. ,This is a criminal matter, the problem with my argument is that it would make New England wrong for suspending their tight end before a court ruled him guilty. So I build my own conundrum, but we cannot let the NFL become judge and jury in criminal matters. We are reaching the point where they can take away your livelihood if you SAY something politically incorrect.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 9:36 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


IMO, Rice was not suspended for hitting/dragging his wife. He was suspended soley b/c the incident reflects negatively on the NFL. The NFL cares about their brand which demanded action (2 games) but not enough action to handicap the Ravens and NFL as a whole by suspending Rice for more games.

Am i reading too much into the quote below where i capitalized?

From the NY Post

"As you acknowledged during our meeting, your conduct was unquestionably inconsistent with league polices and the standard of behavior required of everyone who is part of the NFL. … We simply cannot tolerate conduct that endangers others or REFLECTS NEGATIVELY ON OUR GAME"

Last edited 7/27/2014 11:03 AM by NYSPORTS98

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Posted: 7/27/2014 10:36 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 





---------------------------------------------
--- soullessnight wrote:


FatandProud wrote:
fifthavenuekid wrote: Let he whom is without sin cast the first stone. rolleyesrolleyesrolleyes
This is not just a sin , this is a CRIME !

I'll cast the 1st stone , in my book , you do NOT put your hands on a woman , period !

I would never , ever , even think of any excuse for a man to abuse a woman .

I have a daughter in her 20's and just the thought of anyone touching her makes my blood boil flushed.

As for Ray Rice , his team and this league will be much better off without him, he should've gotten a harsher penalty ,we have no use for his likes !

Good job jintsfan46 .
This is the OLD way of thinking.

Personally, I always hated the mantra "don't hit girls because they are girls."

the fact is, 50% of domestic violence comes from WOMEN. Want to know what I say?

NOBODY SHOULD HIT ANYBODY.

This is the new age, men are the minority. And if you start with some feminist crap, I swear i'll pwn you like I did the "gender studies" professor who tried to say "all things equal a woman earns 80% of a man." .. which is not true...Woman actually earn 115% more than a man all things equal. but overall earn 80% less due to career choice. (just saying)

2 game suspension? I say no freaking way. It's defiantly over the top. He hasn't been convicted of anything, and if his wife stays with him she deserves everything she gets. In this day and age of PFA happy judges, Police, neighbors, family members, woman's shelters, Church advocacy groups.(list can go on) if she honestly stays with him, even if its only for the money, she's getting what she wants INCLUDING the two black eyes. Not only that, we have people in the NFL BULLYING other players and hazing, (which is in of itself also ASSUALT, yet you don't see two game suspensions there do you?)  this is a domestic incidence and the proper legal channels should and will be used. And if they aren't re-read above.

as for your daughter, if she ran at me, I wont lie, i'm punting her across the room. do you have sons? you aren't concerned for their safety?

---------------------------------------------

I agree with you that Nobody Should hit Anybody.

However, the rest of your post literally makes my stomach hurt.

I can't believe there are people in the world who feel this way. Scary scary scary world we live in.

I agree with FatandProud 1000%.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 11:45 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


Maybe F+P were brought up in a different time, with different parents with traditional morals than some other posters. Yes based on my experience the female is and can be the aggressor and determing what actually occurred for the police is difficult. That doesn't justify dragging an unconscious person in such a manner, most of us whatever the situation would have called 911. I think the NFL dropped the ball big time I don't think he should have gotten a year off but I believe that 6 games would have been more than fair.
I have problems with commentators who defend such actions and state that they may have been provoked though. Steven A gets away with alot of borderline racist opinions but if his network supports him , so be it. Where I do have another problem is the appearance and avoidance of the action and the sudden marriage because it is obviously BS. Making matters worse if the legal system itself. After going through anger therapy the record of this instance will be EXPONGED FOREVER. If you get caught with marijuana that may stay on your record with you forever. Hypothetically speaking if this situation ever happened again there would be no record for the authorities who responded to the residence to be aware of.
Does this set a precedent? Is there a progressive dicipline format in place already. Sorry whole lot of venting, if you are famous and good and/or good at a sport there are different rules...
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:08 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



Grizz299 wrote: I'm not sure the NFL had any right to suspend him. He's entitled to due process in a court of law with a jury, 
Two totally separate things. The bargaining agreement does, in fact, give the NFL the right to suspend. He has brought unwanted attention towards his employer and "damaged the brand". There have been a number of court decisions that support an employer's right to suspend, or dismiss, employees under such circumstances. He does a right to trail by jury. If they find him guilty, he will lose his job, as well. If they find him innocent, he will have no recourse against the NFL because he was NOT suspended because he was guilty of a crime, he was suspended because he was accused of a crime and brought unwanted attention to his employer. You have freedom of speech. However, if you are interviewed for the 6 o'clock news and declare on camera, "I hate all (fill in the name of any group of people you want)", you can, and probably will be, fired. Your freedom of speech guarantees the Government cannot harass or jail you for saying, "I hate...". The law is quite clear that your employer CAN fire you because you have brought unwanted attention to his business, alienated clients, and created a hostile work environment. Ray Rice's rights are not being infringed in anyway here. He has the option, if he so chooses, to appeal. But, even if did, and lost his appeal, his work contract states that his employer is acting well within his rights here.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 12:11 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



giant1156 wrote:  if you are famous and good and/or good at a sport there are different rules...
You forgot rich and/or an elected official and/or well connected with the local police force.
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Posted: 7/27/2014 9:37 PM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 


Absolutely right Dwez.
. I don't disagree with the facts. Just feel the law is entering a dangerous area.
The Mets first baseman talked about his hatred of America. Refused to stand for The National Anthemn, so compromised and wasn't on the field. Why was their no talk of suspending him as damaging to the brand?
Why couldn't you say that to Sam? Look less than 3% are homosexual, churchgoer's, Mosque goers etc. are going to moved away, therefore
...
I suspect that which side of the political spectrum you come from as much as the content determines your suspension. I think this has potential -if it's not already there - to be a device that forwards an agenda.
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Posted: 7/28/2014 4:31 AM

Re: Ray Rice's 2 game suspension causes an outrage 



Grizz299 wrote: Absolutely right Dwez.
. I don't disagree with the facts. Just feel the law is entering a dangerous area.
The Mets first baseman talked about his hatred of America. Refused to stand for The National Anthemn, so compromised and wasn't on the field. Why was their no talk of suspending him as damaging to the brand?
Why couldn't you say that to Sam? Look less than 3% are homosexual, churchgoer's, Mosque goers etc. are going to moved away, therefore
...
I suspect that which side of the political spectrum you come from as much as the content determines your suspension. I think this has potential -if it's not already there - to be a device that forwards an agenda.
I never watch baseball, so I am not aware of the situation you mentioned. I do know the baseball players have a much better contract and union than the NFL players do. So they have a number of contractual rights NFL players do not. Refusing to stand for the National Anthem would certainly be a situation where one could, and should, claim First Amendment protection. This is your right NOT to "speak". 

Freedom of speech includes the right:

  • Not to speak (specifically, the right not to salute the flag).
    West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943).


As for Sam, when he announced he was gay, he was NOT employed by any NFL team, therefore, no employer to suspend him. Even if he was on a team, suspending him because of his sexual preference, race, ethnic background, and/or religious beliefs is a direct violation of his civil rights and protected by law. The difference between being gay and knocking a woman out cold in public is very significant in the eyes of the law. After Sam made his public declaration, every team in the NFL could have, and almost did, choose not to draft him. Let's remember, he was picked towards the very end of the draft.  St. Louis felt he was worth the gamble. But given that he is joining a Rams team that is loaded with pass rushers, and he is undersized for the DE position, there is damn good chance he won't make the roster. If he does, it will probably just be as a special team player. There is a real possibility that Michael Sam may end up paying a very high price for his statement. I'm guessing it is very likely that he will be unemployed by September. 

As for agendas, I don't see how the Rice suspension is advancing anyone's agenda. The guy cold clocked a woman in an elevator and they have the video footage to back it up. The fact that he got a slap on the wrist is indicative of his value to his team. If this happened with a "no name" player throwing the punch, there probably would not be a suspension. The player would be cut by the team before the League had a chance to suspend him. If there's an agenda being advanced here, I apologize, I have to admit that I am missing it.
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