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DeS Jax....I still don't get it

Posted: 7/5/2014 8:17 AM

DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


One of the most valuable commodities on the league, maybe not as good as Fitz and Calvin but maybe just as valuable.
. A deep threat who opens the field for everyone else and,to this casual observer, might have been the key to their success.
. You don't find a way to accommodate him or at least get a pick?
. Fifty plus years a fan and I've never seen anything like it.
. They're saying they've got a rook that's as good, that's very unlikely but even if that's so, that's still a no. 1 that could have been spent on much needed defensive help.
. My very tentative conclusion? Hubris, early success had Chip feeling he's way ahead of the game and HE'S so good he doesn't need talent.
IMHO, times have changed, Lombardi might have been able to do that, but not today. You can't tell me either that there was no market for this guy. They could have waited, packaged him, waited for an injury, he had to bring back something. Instead it sounds like an impulsive act guided by the conviction that you are so good players are unnecessary.
. I am really interested in how you guys see this.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 8:51 AM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


I think it's as difficult to read Jackson as your posts based mostly on formatting.  tongue
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Posted: 7/5/2014 11:33 AM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Couple points:

*Desean Jackson is a World Class As#hole and an extremely immature human being, even in a lockerroom full of immature as#holes. For a coach with full power I have no problem imagining why he wouldn't want to deal with DJ.

*Chip's roster-building philosophy is to have tall, long "over-sized" players at every position. That's why they threw big $$ at Riley Cooper, who happened to be 6'2" at the right place, right time.  Kelly believes size will overwhelm and DJ does not fit his vision.

If DJ was a great team player and lockerroom leader with a winning attitude, perhaps CK and the Eagles look the other way when he doesn't fit their size criteria. But the fact he's such a low-character guy made the decision easy. 

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Posted: 7/5/2014 12:08 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Disagree....except the mans a jerk. You don't get rid of a top five or so receiver because he's too short. If he was too short he's not a top five receiver.
. 2. And you ignore this: If you want to get rid of him, bring back a pick. And if no one offered anything at that moment...wait. That "jerk" was worth a high pick.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 12:18 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


I don't care why they got rid of him, but why Washington? Why keep him in the division?
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Posted: 7/5/2014 2:55 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



ordinaryG wrote: I don't care why they got rid of him, but why Washington? Why keep him in the division?
Team culture is of underestimated importance to fans and outsiders.  If one has a cancer on your hands, then not only is getting rid of it a boon, but to unload it on a historically stupid rival is a clever perk.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 3:41 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Man,
Wasp, I got it..."culture" but I mentioned that, but the question is: WHY NOT BRING BACK A HIGH PICK.?
And they didn't "dump" him on Washington. He choose Wash. so he could get to play against his old team.
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Posted: 7/5/2014 3:47 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



Grizz299 wrote: Man,
WHY NOT BRING BACK A HIGH PICK.?

Two possibilities:

1.  They shopped him and he didn't have the value to bring back a high pick.

2.  They wanted him gone so bad that they feel it is addition by subtraction and are not frightened in the slightest at the prospect of playing against him.
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Posted: 7/6/2014 4:33 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



ordinaryG wrote: I don't care why they got rid of him, but why Washington? Why keep him in the division?
The only silver lining here is he will pumped up to kick Phily's azz and that's a positive for me !

--- ALWAYS GIANTS ---

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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:31 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Its management 101. Fire the guy with the most influence over the roster. Remove the cancer, impose your power.

Chip made the right move. now the rest of the roster knows he means business.

It doesn't matter how good he is, how great he is, or anything.

How many superbowl's does Terrel Owens have? The only year he was a team player he made it to the big show... With the eagles.

Teams win superbowls.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 12:58 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Man
. The point is: market the guy, wait until training camp and people find their cupboard is bare. Give it, it's you have to, until the exhibition season.
This talent should have brought back something. Maybe not the way they did it, but someone would have said, whoa I'm one receiver away ....and shell out a hi pick.
. I think he did it impulsively , intemperately, and with an arrogance and he made a mistake. This was not a free agent and he had well outperformed,his old contract, there was a hold out, there's been no arrests, no drugs....BUT that's put me into defending him andnI don't want to do that.
A brilliant field stretching , game changing receiver should have brought back a hi pick. Period!
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Posted: 7/7/2014 1:18 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



Grizz299 wrote: Man
. The point is: market the guy, wait until training camp and people find their cupboard is bare. Give it, it's you have to, until the exhibition season.
This talent should have brought back something. Maybe not the way they did it, but someone would have said, whoa I'm one receiver away ....and shell out a hi pick.

You can't wait until training camp.  You don't waste OTA's and limited training camp reps on a guy who isn't going to be a part of your team.  Not to mention, what team would obtain a player who missed all their OTA's and some camp?  The guy won't even understand the offense . . . oh, and then there is the cap.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 6:34 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Disagree,
. You've decided that no one would have given up a pick. How do you know? C'mon missing ota's? we've watched vets like MS ,LT etc miss camps and be better for it.
Would have cost them nothing to try for a pick.
. I remember TC ,his eyeballs almost exploding; pink Irish face going to red. The opposing coach had ordered his players to explode into our line on the last courtesy plays of a game out of reach.
. The guy was done. No resume, modest career at Rutgers, hubris , lack of respect. Well I think Chips doing much the same thing.
please, tell me when a top ten player was let go for nothing...free agency and the TE murderer from NE excepted.
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Posted: 7/7/2014 8:43 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



Grizz299 wrote:

1)  Disagree,
.

(2) You've decided that no one would have given up a pick. How do you know? C'mon missing ota's? we've watched vets like MS ,LT etc miss camps and be better for it.
 

(3) I remember TC ,his eyeballs almost exploding; pink Irish face going to red. The opposing coach had ordered his players to explode into our line on the last courtesy plays of a game out of reach.
. The guy was done. No resume, modest career at Rutgers, hubris , lack of respect. Well I think Chips doing much the same thing.

(4) please, tell me when a top ten player was let go for nothing...free agency and the TE murderer from NE excepted.
1) Disagree if you like yet it doesn't appear you understand OTA's and the limited practice time for players in this CBA.  A young receiver get limited reps to begin with and now you're wasting reps on a player who won't even be on your roster?  Not to mention, you're going to trade for a player who doesn't know your playbook?  When does this happen?

(2) - what does Taylor, an OLB, who remained in the same system have to do with a receiver going to another team who doesn't understand the system?  How about the young, developing receiver who gets few reps to learn? 

(3) - no idea what Tom Coughlin's eyes have to do with Greg Schiano's call when the topic of discussion is trading a receiver.  You're saying this a rookie coach mistake and linking two completley seperate instances which have nothing in common besides the tenure of a coach? Really?  noidea

(4) Ever hear of free agency or Randy Moss?

You really don't understand why players of this caliber aren't traded come camp?

Last edited 7/8/2014 7:46 AM by NYSPORTS98

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Posted: 7/7/2014 9:00 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Actually, when the season was only over for a few seconds for the Eagles and this particular player started clamoring for more money, I said if he was on my team he'd be GONE.
It concerns me as a Giants fan that the Eagles now "get it". More team first players less "me first" players is what wins championships.
What, was he gonna give some money back if he underperformed? Guys like him are what is wrong with Pro sports and I applaud their organization.
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Posted: 7/8/2014 11:15 AM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



This has been a strange series from the get go,,, I have said in each of several posts..,."I understand why they had to let him go" and consistently I get "you don't understand, he's a cancer, they had to let him go". Well that's an argument you have a fair chance of winning,,,


1) Disagree if you like yet it doesn't appear you understand OTA's and the limited practice time for players in this CBA.

I do understand,,,it's not relative to my point, but I do understand. I even wonder if the new rules aren't going to hurt TC is the long run insomuch as his strength has always been preparation - but that's another thread

Not to mention, you're going to trade for a player who doesn't know your playbook? When does this happen?

Ahhh if I did understand the other point, you had to educate me here, "no one ever trades for someone who doesn't know their playbook", ergo there's never been a trade in the NFL. Thank you for that revisionist interpretation of the leagues history.

(3) - no idea what Tom Coughlin's eyes have to do with Greg Schiano's call when the topic of discussion is trading a receiver. You're saying this a rookie coach mistake and linking two completley seperate instances which have nothing in common besides the tenure of a coach? Really? noidea

Got it..,.you don't understand the reference to Greg. I never should have gone there. The idea was that GS was not a success and that part of the reason is that he brought an arrogance to the league that doomed him. It's called allegorical reasoning where you make a point by referencing a similar situation and it's something literal thinkers have trouble with; and that point is that MAYBE Chip is displaying an arrogance based on his apparent easy successes and maybe that arrogance is going to hurt him in the long run. I didn't make a hard assertions, I questioned, another concept you might have trouble with.

(4) Ever hear of free agency or Randy Moss?
Yes, I've heard of free agency and well I remember Randy Moss, I drove with my sons the year of that draft and kept on hoping he's drop to us, watched his career and those games against Green Bay. And I even can trace the evolution of Free Agency back to Curt Flood the centerfielder for St. Louis.
So now that you know that I've heard of Free agency, what's your point?

Right now, it looks like Cleveland has lost their no. 1 receiver in Josh Gordon. I think it's possible that this franchise that needs so badly to win this year, might surrender a pick for a quality receiver like DeS Jackson. I don't say that with certainty, but just the possibility seems to me reason to hold on to the guy for a few weeks and try to bring a return. I also think that injuries, suspensions etc. over the early weeks of camp might produce similar circumstances. So, in my judgment, there was nothing absolutely nothing to lose by not cutting him loose that early and much to be gained. If he brought back nothing....fine you cut him in July/Aug. What have you lost? I think it might have been even more beneficial because of Phillys' particular circumstances - where indeed they might be one of those teams that's a player (or high draft pick) away.

You really don't understand why players of this caliber aren't traded come camp?
Yes, frankly I do. I think it's difficult, I also think it could happen and that that possibility was worth trying for because I saw no downside.
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Posted: 7/8/2014 12:38 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



Grizz299 wrote:

This has been a strange series from the get go,,, I have said in each of several posts..,."I understand why they had to let him go" and consistently I get "you don't understand, he's a cancer, they had to let him go". Well that's an argument you have a fair chance of winning,,,


You asked a question you claim "I don't get it", get an answer and then tell others they're wrong.  Ok, so you still don't get it.  Why ask then? 


1) Disagree if you like yet it doesn't appear you understand OTA's and the limited practice time for players in this CBA.

I do understand,,,it's not relative to my point, but I do understand. I even wonder if the new rules aren't going to hurt TC is the long run insomuch as his strength has always been preparation - but that's another thread

Not to mention, you're going to trade for a player who doesn't know your playbook? When does this happen?

Ahhh if I did understand the other point, you had to educate me here, "no one ever trades for someone who doesn't know their playbook", ergo there's never been a trade in the NFL. Thank you for that revisionist interpretation of the leagues history.


I never posted that, you just did.  The differentiator is time.  Are players being traded during training camp?  No.  Does that have anything to do with players being traded throughout league history?  No, and it doesn't take a revisionist to recognize why the trades don't happen late in the offseason.  You asked, I gave the answer.  You don't like it.

(3) - no idea what Tom Coughlin's eyes have to do with Greg Schiano's call when the topic of discussion is trading a receiver. You're saying this a rookie coach mistake and linking two completley seperate instances which have nothing in common besides the tenure of a coach? Really? noidea

Got it..,.you don't understand the reference to Greg. I never should have gone there. The idea was that GS was not a success and that part of the reason is that he brought an arrogance to the league that doomed him. It's called allegorical reasoning where you make a point by referencing a similar situation and it's something literal thinkers have trouble with; and that point is that MAYBE Chip is displaying an arrogance based on his apparent easy successes and maybe that arrogance is going to hurt him in the long run. I didn't make a hard assertions, I questioned, another concept you might have trouble with.


No idea if Chip is arrogant or not.  Regardless, the timeframe in which a receiver was moved shouldn't indicate a correlation one way or the other.  If a veteran gets cut during camp and picked up elsewhere, is the coach arrogant?  He's only arrogant if he cuts the player earlier? 

What if the market value for a player due $10 million being traded to another team with literally a handful of non-contact practices without knowing the playbook?  Think it's less or more than a player who is on the same page as the QB who been practicing for a while.  Should the Eagles risk taking more a cap hit by cutting him late if they can't move him?

(4) Ever hear of free agency or Randy Moss?
Yes, I've heard of free agency and well I remember Randy Moss, I drove with my sons the year of that draft and kept on hoping he's drop to us, watched his career and those games against Green Bay. And I even can trace the evolution of Free Agency back to Curt Flood the centerfielder for St. Louis.
So now that you know that I've heard of Free agency, what's your point? 


"Thank you for that revisionist interpretation of the leagues history.", sound familiar?  The point is, quite a few teams have parted ways with good players and received practically nothing in return including from the free agent market.  Why didn't the Eagles receive more return for Jackson?  Well, when you dismiss the market, cap, limited practices risk and everything football related besides a perceived value of a player, there isn't much left to debate. 
 
Right now, it looks like Cleveland has lost their no. 1 receiver in Josh Gordon. I think it's possible that this franchise that needs so badly to win this year, might surrender a pick for a quality receiver like DeS Jackson. I don't say that with certainty, but just the possibility seems to me reason to hold on to the guy for a few weeks and try to bring a return. I also think that injuries, suspensions etc. over the early weeks of camp might produce similar circumstances. So, in my judgment, there was nothing absolutely nothing to lose by not cutting him loose that early and much to be gained. If he brought back nothing....fine you cut him in July/Aug. What have you lost? I think it might have been even more beneficial because of Phillys' particular circumstances - where indeed they might be one of those teams that's a player (or high draft pick) away.


Like I said, Jackson will then steal reps from other receivers.  Chip is still installing his offense and to allow a player which you have no plans to retain steal reps doesn't make sense.  What good is an offense you can't practice with your first team b/c you're waiting to trade a player?  Especially late when the return isn't going to be a high pick.  This league is littered with good athletes looking for jobs and don't cost any picks. 



You really don't understand why players of this caliber aren't traded come camp?
Yes, frankly I do. I think it's difficult, I also think it could happen and that that possibility was worth trying for because I saw no downside.


Without sounding like a broken record, I have my position as to why.


Sounds more risky and costly had the Eagles kept him with hopes of moving him later.
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Posted: 7/8/2014 3:49 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 



theGIANTway wrote: 
It concerns me as a Giants fan that the Eagles now "get it". More team first players... 
+1  I had been taking some confidence that the Eagles ran a "loose ship."  Kelly seems to have a vision and is aggressively executing that vision, to heck with the doubters.  Reminds me a little of Pete Carrol at Seattle.  In his first two years with the Seahawks he was going through roster moves like crazy.  The League was wondering what he was doing.  The answer was he was separating the Wheat from the Chaff in an aggressive fashion to execute his vision.  

The jury is still out on Kelly, but my gut tells me that he is going to be a pain in our rears.
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Posted: 7/8/2014 4:31 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


They cut him, he was free to sign wherever he wanted....
ordinaryG wrote: I don't care why they got rid of him, but why Washington? Why keep him in the division?
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Posted: 7/8/2014 7:34 PM

Re: DeS Jax....I still don't get it 


Allright NY Sport,
NOW I'M REALLY MAD!
Did not expect that hi- toned cogent answer. I wasn't aware of cap implications, suspect I have been schooled. Which is fine; even enjoyable if exceedingly rare.
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