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Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli

Posted: 6/4/2014 2:41 PM

Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


Manning is hardly a scrambler, but that’s not the footwork he’ll need to improve. He’s quite adept sliding and maneuvering in the pocket, but Gannon sees, if not laziness, a measure of sloppiness in Manning’s footwork, likely caused by so much time back in the shotgun. A hallmark of any West Coast attack is the three-step drop from behind center, which must be precision-perfect.

“I can promise you he’ll be doing a lot of different drills,’’ Gannon said. “The box drills, the quick feet drills, the jump rope with your helmet and shoulder pads on. That’s how you get better with your feet. I think he’s athletic enough, I think he’s talented enough, I think he’s highly motivated.”

“I think his accuracy, once he gets comfortable in the system, he’ll improve dramatically,’’ Gannon said. “We always talk about trust your feet, your feet will take you to the completion."

“He has to understand when I call a ‘shot’ play and it’s not there, I need you to do the right thing,’’ Gannon said, speaking as the offensive coordinator. “I don’t need you to throw it up for Victor Cruz or somebody to make a miraculous catch. I need you to check the ball down to the back, you’ll find a completion and we’ll move the chains.’’

The selling job, even during the inevitable struggles, should not be much of an issue.

“First of all, you have to tell him ‘Look, this system is going to lengthen your career,’’’ Gannon said. “I know Ben McAdoo from having been with Mike [McCarthy], he’s a sharp guy. He can really help Eli become a better player and that’s exciting. You’re talking about a guy who’s a talented quarterback who’s won Super Bowls. He’s got a chance to get better.’’

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Posted: 6/4/2014 8:31 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


I don't expect Eli Manning to scramble at all unless he has wide open field, but he is pretty accurate rolling out and throwing on the move.
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Posted: 6/4/2014 9:00 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


"Athletic" "Talented" and "Motivated" certainly apply to Eli, and he's certainly not too old to adapt and change. I would also consider that if this new system pans out, he won't be hearing footsteps, seeing shadows, and checking his blind side on passing downs. With short drops you would also expect less throws off the back foot, a flaw in Eli's mechanics even during his best times.
Combined with the change from Gilbride's overly complicated passing game, I really believe that Eli is primed for a terrific comeback. OL, don't fail us now!

Faithful Giants fan from 1967 - to whenever the Reaper comes a' callin'!

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Posted: 6/5/2014 8:01 AM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


One thing that I wonder is if the old system made Eli seem slow or if it was Eli doing it to himself. At times he seemed lazy or slow in his decision making and getting rid of the ball. It was like he was in slow motion. We don't know if it was Eli or the system that caused that. I suppose if the receivers aren't open and you've got large men running at you, it'll make you look slow or unsure with regard to deciding where to go with the ball.
In this new offense, everything is at a high tempo. Short drop, make the read, find the open guy and get the ball out fast. Can Eli play in this style of offense? We'll find out in a month and a half (man it feels good to say that).

Good teams rely on their stars,
Great teams rely on each other.

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Posted: 6/6/2014 2:49 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


gulp !!!

hope this works out.

and one thought, if eli is at 67% completions then all will be just fine (obviously)

some facts : (  pro football reference . com)
he has thrown 58% for his career.
a high of 62.9% 2010
and 61% 2011 while throwing for 4933 yards and 29td / 16int.

to 67% and beyond !!!

Last edited 6/6/2014 2:59 PM by 56801BackAgain

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Posted: 6/6/2014 3:03 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


Good read from Gannon who was the ultimate WCO QB under J.Gruden. 

I think a pretty solid argument can be made that Eli was already playing in his "ideal" system with Gilbride's 5- and 7-step traditional pocket passing. 

The WCO sacrifices size and arm strength for mobility and accuracy and those are not Eli's strong suits.

We will see - he has definitely slimmed down and they are doing a ton more footwork and throwing on the move drills than they ever did before. 

The QB we have who is tailor-made for a WCO is Nassib IMO, who has good mobility and athleticism and played in a WCO in college. I am very interested to see how he performs in preseason.
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Posted: 6/6/2014 10:49 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


Nice post GT. I think we will all ultimately seeif Eli can hack it in the WCO style or not......although I have a feeling they will incorporate some deeper drop plays into the fray. But Eli will definitely be doing some more quick reactive passing as opposed to getting comfy in the pocket and waiting on the receiver to make his break in KGs system.


I have a feeling an improved run game will also take some pressure off of Eli and open up pass opportunities. We are all excited/nervous to see how this works out. Count me in the excited department.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 11:55 AM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


I have wanted to see Eli in a different offense for years so I am looking forward to this season.  McAdoo and Coughlin said early on that the offense is going to be a hybrid of the WCO and the old Couglin/Gilbride offense.  It is going to be interesting....
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Posted: 6/7/2014 1:02 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


Tupper - they said that, but honestly it's not true. Saying that is just out of respect to Coughlin. McAdoo was given full autonomy of the offense - this is HIS system and it's basically the same offense GB runs. 

Coughlin was not going to be retained unless he gave FULL control to McAdoo. 

Really you can't run a WCO and a "traditional" offense at the same time. They are complete opposites. You have to pick one and really hone in on it, and fine tune. You can't do everything. From what we're hearing from players and seeing at practice, it's zone running scheme and horizontal, quick release passing game w/lots of motion, a base 3 WR offense and guys lining up in different spots. That's GB's offense.

Dying to see if Eli is accurate enough to thrive in this system -  it's not just making the right read and putting the ball up for grabs - absolute precision and continuously hitting guys in stride is the key to making it work. That, along with mobility, are the 2 weaknesses in Eli's game imo.

Last edited 6/7/2014 1:05 PM by GiantsT

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Posted: 6/7/2014 1:33 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


I disagree.  First of all there was no way that Coughlin was getting fired.  Second of all there is no way that Coughlin was not going to be involved with the offensive planning.  Coughlin said that it is McAdoo's offense.  He is in charge of the offense.  Coughlin also said in essence he will be working closely with McAdoo in formulating the new offense.  

What none of us do not know is what kind of conversations Coughlin and Gilbride had during last season. Even in previous seasons I could never understand why they did not take advantage of Eli's propensity to perform better in the two minute offense.  I do remember that it took a long time to develop the vertical offense that was a primary feature of what Gilbride wanted to accomplish.  I do not see that going away especially given Eli's ability in executing long passes.  Of course he has to have the time and that is where a WCO comes in.  It should make the vertical game easier to execute.  

One key feature of the Coughlin offensive thinking that will not go away is having a balance between running and passing.  Fundamentally once the cohesive OL that the Giants had for 5 or so years started to come apart, the emphasis on the vertical game made the problem worse.  It is my impression that when an OC emphasizes the vertical game, he has to have an OL that is very good at both pass protection and run blocking.  It seems to me that the vertical game makes the run game more difficult since it is the run game that sets up the vertical game which means places an emphasis on the run game being executed well on 1st and/or second down.  Third and short opens up play action which in turns opens up the vertical game.
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Posted: 6/7/2014 10:40 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 



GiantsT wrote: Tupper - they said that, but honestly it's not true. Saying that is just out of respect to Coughlin. McAdoo was given full autonomy of the offense - this is HIS system and it's basically the same offense GB runs. 

Coughlin was not going to be retained unless he gave FULL control to McAdoo. 

Really you can't run a WCO and a "traditional" offense at the same time. They are complete opposites. You have to pick one and really hone in on it, and fine tune. You can't do everything. From what we're hearing from players and seeing at practice, it's zone running scheme and horizontal, quick release passing game w/lots of motion, a base 3 WR offense and guys lining up in different spots. That's GB's offense.

Dying to see if Eli is accurate enough to thrive in this system -  it's not just making the right read and putting the ball up for grabs - absolute precision and continuously hitting guys in stride is the key to making it work. That, along with mobility, are the 2 weaknesses in Eli's game imo.
Don't talk nonsense.  You have not the least idea as to what the offense will be until you see it.

To even suggest that TC would be fired under any circumstance is ludicrous.  Stop making up stories.
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Posted: 6/8/2014 3:43 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


It appeared highly unlikely TC was getting fired after last season.....but if TC did not agree to at least philosophically overhaul the offense on some level, I think JR and the FO would have had a conversation about how to potentially proceed without TC.   Once again......it's not like TC is going to be our coach for 5 more years.   I think 2 max.......so if TC wasn't going to bend enough on the offensive system, he may have been at risk.    


I think Gordon is right that the balance that TC wants to maintain will be a goal of the offense under McAdoo, I don't think we'll be as pass reliant as GB is at times.   At least that's the goal.    It could be a pass first to open up the run kind of offense.   I have a feeling more play action will be used as well....which I think Eli is very good with.    And I think there will absolutely be downfield opportunities taken.   However, I don't think we will take as many as we tried in the past.    


I don't think we adjusted offensively enough last season Gordon.   I don't think we had the horses to be versatile, anyway......but I think the inability of the offense to really evolve during the season was the ultimate reason KG was shown the door.      


Regardless.......I am still VERY excited to see Eli in this new system and I doubt we'll see as much of the old offense in place.    I like the notion of us regularly running 3 WR sets.   I think a lot more will be placed on the variety of the WRs and HB and the TE will continue to be more of a back-up option in routes and relied upon as an extra blocker.

Last edited 6/8/2014 3:44 PM by JeffHostetlerFan

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Posted: 6/8/2014 10:31 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


"It appeared highly unlikely TC was getting fired after last season.....but if TC did not agree to at least philosophically overhaul the offense on some level, I think JR and the FO would have had a conversation about how to potentially proceed without TC.   Once again......it's not like TC is going to be our coach for 5 more years.   I think 2 max.......so if TC wasn't going to bend enough on the offensive system, he may have been at risk."

Jeff, simply more unfounded speculation.  You have not the least knowledge of what transpired between TC and the franchise in the offseason.  None.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 10:12 AM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 



Fan1938 wrote: "It appeared highly unlikely TC was getting fired after last season.....but if TC did not agree to at least philosophically overhaul the offense on some level, I think JR and the FO would have had a conversation about how to potentially proceed without TC.   Once again......it's not like TC is going to be our coach for 5 more years.   I think 2 max.......so if TC wasn't going to bend enough on the offensive system, he may have been at risk."

Jeff, simply more unfounded speculation.  You have not the least knowledge of what transpired between TC and the franchise in the offseason.  None.

Yes.....it is speculation.   I'm not a Giants beat reporter.....and nor are you.   It simply represents my opinion.    You are free to disagree with it.   The owner of the team stated publicly that the offense was broken.   If that doesn't signal that either change comes......or we'll find somebody that wants to help us bring in change....I'm not sure what would.    So I believe that if TC was not willing to adapt to a change of philosophy via the scheme, I don't think he'd necessarily be coach today.    But.....TC....to his credit, seems to have agreed with mgmt, even if he wasn't happy letting KG go.    One thing TC ultimately has been is ready to at least entertain some changes when things have been proven to not function over a period of 16-32 games.
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Posted: 6/9/2014 12:37 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


My opinion is that this could be Eli's final season as the Giants quarterback. He needs to step it up this year or else I can definitely see him elsewhere in 2015 with a new starting quarterback on the Giants roster. As pointed out above, Eli's strengths don't seem to mesh well with the WCO as he's not very athletic and accurate, but he's only played in one system his whole career. Let's see how he does in this new offense with a summer of changing his body and working in the new system. I like to believe that he'll adapt well, but if he struggles I would not be surprised to see him pulled during a game for Nassib or someone else. Eli Manning is 33-years-old, going on 34 soon, and the average age for a quarterback's career ending is about 35. He's near the end right now. That seems crazy to us who saw him drafted, but it is reality. Nassib is going to be given every single opportunity to prove himself so that the coaches know if he's the guy as soon as next year (which will be Nassib's third year). If they don't feel he's the guy then I really think a quarterback will be signed or drafted next offseason.

Good teams rely on their stars,
Great teams rely on each other.

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Posted: 6/9/2014 9:53 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


I'm an Eli guy, so I'm all in on the new system. That said, I think this is still a learning year. 10-6 and a division or WC game, but early playoff exit this year, then SB next year in Eli's last "hurrah".
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Posted: 6/10/2014 2:39 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


In response to Fan1938...

...like I said, I've attended a few of the OTA's so to say I know absolutely nothing about the new offense is inaccurate. But you don't have to take my word for it:

1 - Pick up a newspaper or follow the practice reports on Giants.com. There's been plenty said about the offense by Eli, Cruz and others. And really - examine the available information: McAdoo's been working under Mike McCarthy the last 10 years. Same with Danny Langsdorf - the new QB Coach - with Mike Riley. McCarthy and Riley both run the same system. The new RB Coach is also a WCO guy. 

You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see what's going on here. Do I have the playbook? No. Is it safe to assume based on all available info we're running something close to McCarthy's O in GB? Absolutely. 

2 - Management had already fired Gilbride against Coughlin's will. Knowing what we know now and using 20/20 hindsight, exactly what do you think the whole "go home and think about it" stuff was, with Coughlin? "We're bringing in a new offense, are you in or out?".  He then took 2 days to go home, talk it over with his wife and decide. They were not going to continue with his offense in place and they gave him an ultimatum. It's the only thing that makes sense. 

Let me put it like this - do you really think Tom Coughlin would voluntarily fire Gilbride and agree to scrap his offense for a WCO which is the exact opposite system he's spent his entire career coaching in, and thus admitting that his offense (and not personnel) was the problem? He is no longer in control of the offense or defense. That was no guarantee he was going to agree.

Last edited 6/10/2014 2:40 PM by GiantsT

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Posted: 6/10/2014 10:38 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


T, Consider:

He interestingly enough does not describe himself as 'West Coast,'" Coughlin said of McAdoo, dismissing the idea of a switch to a high-percentage, short-passing attack. "He thinks more in terms of the ball going vertical down the field if the opportunity presents itself."

Speculation piled upon speculation piled on speculation.  Nobody gives TC an ultimatum.  You do not know what you say you know.  Just stories.

Last edited 6/11/2014 12:09 PM by GordonG

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Posted: 6/11/2014 12:35 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 



GiantsT wrote: Tupper - they said that, but honestly it's not true. Saying that is just out of respect to Coughlin. McAdoo was given full autonomy of the offense - this is HIS system and it's basically the same offense GB runs. 

Coughlin was not going to be retained unless he gave FULL control to McAdoo. 

Really you can't run a WCO and a "traditional" offense at the same time. They are complete opposites. You have to pick one and really hone in on it, and fine tune. You can't do everything. From what we're hearing from players and seeing at practice, it's zone running scheme and horizontal, quick release passing game w/lots of motion, a base 3 WR offense and guys lining up in different spots. That's GB's offense.

Dying to see if Eli is accurate enough to thrive in this system -  it's not just making the right read and putting the ball up for grabs - absolute precision and continuously hitting guys in stride is the key to making it work. That, along with mobility, are the 2 weaknesses in Eli's game imo.

I would say that your reference to TC giving full control of the offense to McAdoo is not  accurate.  In an interview with Mike Francesa on WFAN last week, TC stated "if anyone thinks that I am not going to be involved in this offense, they are sadly mistaken".  He went on to say he has been an offensive coach his entire career.  Let's also remember that this is McAdoo's first year calling plays.  Do you really think that a seasoned head coach like TC is going to turn over everything to a fledgling playcaller?  Not happening.
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Posted: 6/11/2014 1:25 PM

Re: Gannon: New offense a ‘dramatic change’ for Eli 


Todge, you bring up an interesting challenge that TC will face.  I can not see him overruling play calls as the play is called.  Perhaps in certain types of situations it will be check with me first.  However, that probably could not happen more than a handful of times each game without losing efficiency.  I am also thinking that Eli will be given the authority to change plays depending on what he sees.  

Where I see TC's greatest involvement is during the game planning phase of each week.  I have to believe that there are ongoing sessions between TC and McAdoo discussing the overall philosophy of play calling as well as what plays fit down and distance situations.  TC will certainly be deeply involved in player evaluation and how each player can be used effectively.
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